Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[Xylthixlm]

Vote Count, Day 3

hiphop ( 2 ) - Sotty7 - RayFrost
shotty to the body ( 0 )
fhqwhgads ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 1 ) - Pads
Idiotking ( 2 ) - roflcopter - RedCoyote
Xylthixlm ( 0 )
Pads ( 1 ) - SpyreX
popsofctown ( 0 )
Zakeri ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 1 ) - hiphop
roflcopter ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 7 ) - fhqwhgads - hitogoroshi - idiotking - zakeri - Shotty to the Body - popsofctown - Xylthixlm
Total Votes ( 14 )

With 14 alive, 8 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 12th, 4pm EST

If you can't read me listen to one of the many people who can please

[Zakeri]

Zakeri is IN this game? Woosh.

I know, right?

Don't worry, if someone pisses me off, I'd be in this game harder than a Gáe Bolg in winter.

Reading through Hito's posts gives me a townie feeling. He's been very active in his posts and there's clear evidence of scum hunting, so he's by no stretch any sort of obvious scum.

I also read through the vote on EP, and I thought it was fairly justified. It's at least something I would have voted for at that stage of the game. The whole issue of "it's like a policy lynch if this happens: blah blah blah" Also seems like Pads is trying to turn a thoughtful answer into a gotcha. I don't see where the problem with Hito is here.

Reading Pads now:

Alright, that wagon was fun, but we have plenty of other leads now, and I see no reason good enough to stay on it (it was my random vote anyway). That's not to say I think SpyreX has been particularly pro-town. His responses have had components of both self righteous bristling (town) and dismissive, redirecting (scum).

What?

Okay, I had to switch out of Iso view to see if this made sense in context. since it was about 12 pages later despite only being two days later and there was a bandwagon on spy in the absence, I suppose it's something that could be let go, but it's just too disgruntled in iso read seeing this explanation right after said random vote.

I've tried reading the rest of her posts, but nothing's convinced me of her alignment either way. This giant list of who to vote makes me suspicious though, since imaginality and E_K both had similar looking lists that were filled to the brim with townie lynch galore. Looking at pads' list, the only one on there that actually had a semblance of a reason attached to why she put that person on the list was tacked onto the only currently flipped scum on her list. This looks a little too cleanly cut. I think the add on about E_K might be a bus attempt.

My eyes are starting to fail me right now though, being so late after whatever curfew my biological system has declared for this week (It varies wildly, you know). I'll try to get on again tomorrow.

[popsofctown]

If you can't read me listen to one of the many people who can please

Because they are saying "town" mirite?

[Xylthixlm]

If you can't read me listen to one of the many people who can please

Because they are saying "town" mirite?

Obviously. If they say scum don't listen to them. Especially roflcopter.

[roflcopter]

zakeri, vote for someone

pops, xyl is a pretty solid lock for town right now

having replaced e-pengin, fhq is also very very town, despite the fact that he really needs to be posting more

[zoraster]

Big couple of days. Vote updates tomorrow morning.

[RedCoyote]

rc- your case on idk seems more of bussing is the new scumtell of the month. Several people are guilty of attacking scum in this game. Why is Idiotking different?

Just to make sure we're both on the same page, bussing would mean that both me and Idiotking were scum together.

Idiotking is different because elvis came down against him late D1. This could mean one of two things: either she saw an opportunity to look townie by calling out Idiotking for his distancing himself from the CSL lynch, or she saw an opportunity to distance herself from her partner by starting a late day wagon that wouldn't go anywhere. Additionally, she was actually right to come down on him, I think. Idiotking made it fairly blantant that he was against the CSL lynch (despite the fact he still voted for him), to the point where he said, in three separate posts, that he regretted voting for CSL when he knew better than to do so. It doesn't sound sincere to me.

That being said, I thought he handled himself well enough D2 to earn some townie credit back. Still, now that were in D3, he's no where to be found. If Idiotking was townie, I don't think he would be afraid of posting.

---

Yes I'm throwing a tantrum.

I just don't see it. Pads is guilty of an exaggeration here, I won't deny you that, but short of his questionable stove-top I don't know what else I can stick him with. I think post 1314 is about as close as we're going to get to Pads backing down from the statement. I totally hear your point when you ask us to look at how right you have been on the flips so far, and I actually

want

to give you credit for it by supporting one of your wagons. I just don't think Pads can be that person. Even hiphop I'd really have to hold my nose to vote at this point.

I don't know how you can seem so townie to everyone (including me), yet your reads are so contrary to everyone else.

---

Anyway, [Idiotking] was afraid to lynch a townie and he's scum? Come on people

I'm serious. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted the townCSL lynch, but he also wanted to complain about it to make it look like he was forced on the wagon. In my opinion, no one forces anyone on a D1 wagon in a large game. Moreover, if you

are

going to complain that the growing wagon looks wrong

while

you're sitting on it, you

aren't

going to take three separate occasions to whine about how bamboozled you were into joining the wagon. I'm sorry; you are not being sincere if you do all of this.

If hito is more your style, then I think I can be convinced on that, but until Idiotking is willing to start making decent posts (at least hito has tried to defend himself, although I am less than enthusastic about his consistent lack of scum reads on anyone), then I think he's got something to hide.

I agree with you that Pads and Spyrex sound like two townies in a shoving match.

---

Dear everyone,

If your vote is not for Idiotking or hito, then give me something real to mull over (more than just kitchen metaphors). Otherwise read over both of these players (neither player has posted too much this game) and get back to me.

Yours Truly,
RedCoyote

[hiphop]

pops- just because he declared some people town does not have anything to do with my quote. As I said, his pet projects leave more options for a mislynch. Besides all of the people that you quoted have died, besides you. What does that tell you? How can we the town, confirm townies, if they are all dead? The point I am trying to make is the town should act as a whole, and confirm townies, and not say someone is town, when they are on the path to a lynch.

I've only caught up from page 30, too. I'm going to have a long day regardless.

Sotty- I don't think you saw this in his second post. Considering it was page 35. Also with his most recent post, it looks like he is still trying to make sense of day one, which is imo still reading.

Also- using your vote as a placeholder, should not be how a townie reacts.

zakeri, vote for someone

Funny how you say this to one individual, when there is lots of people not voting. I am especially surprised that you didn't tell hito too. If he flips scum this would be especially helpful.

Why do you ignore me?

Sorry, rc. The best I can see idk is sk. It just looked to sincere to me. Let me reread him and I will get back to you tomorrow. For now

unvote

I don't know if I should use the point that idk flaked out. Does this mean he is scum, because of his earlier statement? Seems to wifomy, but it is possible.

[fhqwhgads]

Going on todays posts, my reads are all over the place. One moment I think the Hito-scum is possible, the next I'm not so sure.

Should be done reading either today or tomorrow, but it seems all who I think was obv. scum have already been removed by some means.

Also, how the hell am I/EP still in this game? Seriously, that guy sucked.

[RayFrost]

He sucked but people thought "Noob town/scum" and weren't really comfy with it

[Idiotking]

Ok.

For the CSL wagon: I'm fully prepared to take any heat I deserve for being on it. I was correct in thinking that a replacement would be a good idea, but I also agreed of my own free will to remain on the wagon and kill him. If you think this is scummy, then my sincerest apologies. I know I'm responsible for my vote.

As for 'connections': The only one you've proposed that I can see, RC, is a 'connection' with elvis, and you say it's bussing/distancing. This indicates that I've had nothing but negative connections with scum. Do you really think that I could be buddies with elvis simply as a result of only very negative interactions? I think you're really reaching here. If you suspect me, at least come up with better reasons than this.

[Xylthixlm]

Mrrrh. iso reads say hitogoroshi and Pads are both leaning town.

[Xylthixlm]

SpyreX feels weird. Doesn't feel like mafia proper though. Town playing slightly off, or traitor/third-party.

I want to strangle Idiotking over the internet for the replacement thing, but I'm not sure on his alignment. Neutral.

[Idiotking]

You want I should strangle myself for you? It might be easier.

[Xylthixlm]

Gut reads:

Town

charter

, hito,

Infinis

, Pads, Red, SpyreX,

elvis

Shifting from Scum to Town

hiphop,

Vi

, pops

Neutral

Everyone not mentioned

Sotty, Zakeri/Psychologic, Shotty/Budja, roflcopter, Xyl/Ethereal/Juls,

ConfidAnon

Shifting from town to scum

crypto

, Ray,

sigma

,

Hoopla

Scum

Penguin,

CSL

,

Maemuki

, IdiotKing

[Xylthixlm]

Got to go but I still need to take closer looks at:
RedCoyote, popsofctown, Sotty7, Zakeri/Psychologic, Shotty to the Boddy/Budja, RayFrost, fhqwhgads/Energetic Penguin

[popsofctown]

Going on todays posts, my reads are all over the place. One moment I think the Hito-scum is possible, the next I'm not so sure.

Should be done reading either today or tomorrow, but it seems all who I think was obv. scum have already been removed by some means.

Also, how the hell am I/EP still in this game? Seriously, that guy sucked.

fhq: Imaginality voted you and tried to wagon you, and he's confirmed scum. Based off Imag's playstyle he seems unlikely to do that as an early bus, so you are probtown.

You still have to get in here and post though.

[SpyreX]

I don't like the apologetic mousey 1335 at all. It oozes fake from every pour.

Enough that I could get behind that wagon assuming Pads, yet again, is gonna be free.

[Idiotking]

What exactly do you expect me to do? Rant and rave about how I was so totally right and was pressed into service against my will? See, it's a funny catch-22. If I take responsibility, I'm doomed. If I don't take responsibility, I'm equally doomed. So if I'm to be doomed no matter what I do, I might as well be honest and have a clear conscience. Though I'm betting that the after-game commentary on my play will be nothing short of withering.

[popsofctown]

I thought you're response was fine *shrug*

Don't AtE. That's just not going to end well.

[Idiotking]

It's not an appeal to emotions, or at least not intentionally one. It's more of a realization that I can't defend on this point, so I'll have to move on to something else, like pointing out the connections bit. Which there are none of, by the way, except for purely negative interactions.

I also want to point out the fact that if you (the town) keep lynching people based on the fact that "oh dude this guy is scum and hes dead and we should so totally lynch the people he said were scum cuz his buddys in there im sure of it" we're not really going to get anywhere.

[popsofctown]

That's a strawman. I wish i could say it was a huge one, but I can't actually.

[SpyreX]

A multi-word apology doesn't do it for me. Especially with the "you want me to strangle myself" after.

I'm definitely not subscribing to the elvis list being a rosetta stone for scum.

However the bad-dog pose with the puppy dog eyes does little for me.

And painting all the votes as if they are a function of that, well.

Unvote, Vote: IK

[hitogoroshi]

750 wc here. I'll try to make the most of it.

Only I'm in a perpetual wait for you to say something concrete, something business related...What do you do in other games though? Has anyone else ever accused you of flying under the radar? Haven't we had this conversation before?

In other games I generally don't start wagons, but instead take the time to consider them as they progress. I have been accused of flying under the radar, but I can't link a specific post off of the top of my head. And no, I don't believe so.

And is that seriously what's considered townie? To just throw out your thoughts on many players, often? That strikes me as helpful to scum (you know my thoughts on lists already) but if that's what you guys want, sure.

I was leaning rofl-scum at first but he's stuck his neck out enough that he's floating in the null-to-townie range for me. IK's whiny defensiveness makes me angry but I don't think it means much in terms of alignment. I remember thinking pops was scummy for a while but he's been pretty town lately. People that spyrex find to be townies have an extreme propensity to die - this strikes me as scummy, but of course there's some WIFOM in there as well (being that it would be so blatantly obvious as scum.) fgads is fulfilling the destiny of the EP slot - how long before catchup isn't an excuse? :p and hiphop is asking too many questions.

Despite the simple yes or no question, you never actually came out with a yes or no answer. Instead, you concluded with the equivalent of: If he wasn't scum, then yes it was a policy lynch.

This doesn't make any sense. That post was making the point that I think it's a scummy action even if it's a part of his history. It wasn't a pre-emptive apology in the event of an EP townflip, it was saying that I would be unapologetic if he flipped town!

I never liked how day 1 he said "my vote is like a giant axe of iron that i shall rarely use lest it go dull", then he uses it to get on a policy lynch he could have gotten on much earlier. That doesn't really make sense.

It's not that I want to rarely use my vote, it's that I want to leave it where it is when I place it so it will have a bit more weight as a pressuring tool. I didn't vote EP because he was lurking, I voted him because he was so brazen about just throwing his vote on a wagon he had to be scum or a townie who needs to squirm a little and take this seriously.

My only issue with him is how quickly he dropped the point that only scum make up their minds over night and then abandoned his Pads vote. TownHito would argue his point more strongly than that I would think.

Yeah, this player list has left me a bit hesitant about my logic. I could very well be the only player in this game who hasn't ever been scum. I know there's a certain bluster behind claims like "X is scum" and "Y is a clear scumtell", but regardless it's hard for me to argue against that confidence with "I haven't been scum but I bet they would do this thing you don't think is a scumtell." This is more or less what happens with Pads.

See, it's a funny catch-22. If I take responsibility, I'm doomed. If I don't take responsibility, I'm equally doomed. So if I'm to be doomed no matter what I do, I might as well be honest and have a clear conscience.

You're doomed if you take responsibility? What the hell is this garbage? Do you realize how many ****in people were on the CSL wagon? (hint: enough to lynch him!) Do you see them tripping over themselves trying to blame someone else for the bandwagon? No - in fact, I don't think there is a single person who is apologetic for that lynch, and for good reason. I don't even know if this is indicative of being scum or not, but it certainly shows that you've got a weird sense of reality in your head.

[Shotty to the Body]

I'm torn here, need to reread Hito. I'm okay with an IK lynch for the reasons listed now and the things we talked about on D1. Rayfrost is still nagging at me, I'll get back to you. I feel like a lemming this game. X_X

Vote IK