Yes, I do. She is trying to pass YOU BOTH off as CONFIRMED now because of that and she has yet to rescind it.
She is scummiest person to me right now and that's why my vote is placed on her.
I didn't say does that make her scummy, I said does that mean any argument she makes will be coloured by that viewpoint? Right now you're ignoring very legitimate questions from her and I don't like it.
Those remaining questions are heading into WIFOM territory.
Zzz. You guys are the ones coming up with a theory, you should have an idea in your mind about how it went down. Dismissing a line of enquiry due to some WIFOM is a terrible idea, as I've argued in just about every game ever. To assume that I would imprint my scumbuddy in my first post is not the best, to assume that elvis cooked up a scheme with that person continues to disappoint.
Elvis trying to clear me is a good start, but elvis trying to clear anyone with info like that is definitely a positive. She's not the sort of scum that gambits D1, she tends to prefer to back her playing. I have the advantage of knowing that if she was scum she'd be working hard ot clear a townie, so that's one solid reason that you guys can't share. But if you work through the questions I asked above and earlier in the thread you'll realise that if she was scum there would have been better ways of doing this gambit (primarily not using the person who imprinted her first page). She said she was prepared to die before the end of the game if she needed to, I believe her.
It's like defending you for breaking the game, I think elvis is doing her version of that.
As for Starbuck, I'm as confident as I can be for a D1 scum tell, don't let me make you think I'm sure she's going to flip scum. But at this stage it's a good prediction, better than most.
A fair bit of it is gut but I'll try to key you into my thinking.
She is discrediting elvis constantly. There's nothing inherently scummy about trying to clear yourself, there's certainly nothing inherently scummy about trying to clear someone else (doubly especially if that person is town). Yet Starbuck uses that as an argument against her constantly. It's purely done to discredit the finding. There's a natural distrust of people who speak about clearing themselves, as I learnt in my first game of mafia, but that should lead you to doubt the conclusion, not incriminate the person suggesting the theory. I say again, just because elvis suggested it doesn't mean it's not a good idea, nor does it mean she's scummy, nor does it mean it can be dismissed. Her actions have town motivations as well as scum motivations.
Then look at Starbucks' first post. In her 1-5 pages post, she mentions Deathnote in every point against elvis. She talks a lot about 'overreactions' to his play. This is a slightly odd way ot reviewing the game. Maybe putting it out there once, that's OK, but...
(SC note: These are all quotes from Starbucks' first summary post, the one that I decided she was scum with Deathnote after reading.)
On Elvis & SC
SC seems to get a bit overaggressive over DeathNote's suggested idea
to imprint everyone in Post 13,
as did Elvis when she voted DeathNote
in Post 14. He was just throwing out an idea, and you both overreacted quite a bit. Then Elvis turns around just a few posts later in Post 17 that she likes fast, exciting games and that it really isn't that bad of an idea, but only after SC alluded that it could be okay. This feels like a
contradiction to me of her vote of DeathNote
.
I'm getting the feeling of elvis and SC buddying a bit. My reasons here are that for one SC voted to imprint both himself and elvis and in Post 119, elvis does the same thing. It just seems like they are trying to work together,
as they did when they both shot down DeathNote's idea.
Post 119 does nothing but add to my theory.
I also am not a fan of someone who just comes out Day 1 saying that "so&so and so&so are scum" just because you don't like their ideas. Elvis does this in Post 47. (SC note: Guess who? Deathnote!)
The last thing I'm not a fan of
is how overly insulting and condescending elvis has been to quite a few of players. (SC note: Also deathnote, but I grant you this is more ambiguous)
It seems right now that if we don't go with elvis's way, it's the highway. Remember that this is a mafia game and it does get heated, but it doesn't give you a reason to sit and fling ad hom at everyone that you disagree with.
So you can see how focused on Deathnote she is. And don't forget this is IN THE ELVIS AND SC SECTION of her review.
Then there's the actual section on Deathnote himself:
On DeathNote
I definitely don't like his pressure of trying to make everyone choose between either one of his plans.
I've played with DeathNote before and it very much seems like he was just trying to get ideas out there. I'm not getting a completely scummy feeling from him.
If she'd come out and said he was town I could have perhaps understood her obsession with him in the first section, but she didn't. She did the classic can't-say-my-buddy-is-town-can't-say-he's-scum thing and said he was kinda scummy, but there's nonetheless reason not to vote him. This is perhaps more gut, but this is EXACTLY what scum talking about their buddy look like.
On VMD
I think VMD's vote on TheButtonmen is a little opportunistic because he wasn't the only one discussing that theory/idea. I don't think he is being against the spirit of the game. Again, here is someone who just happened to bring up an idea that someone else didn't like.
It's like the same thing as elvis voting DeathNote because she didn't like his idea.
Keeps pushing the Deathnote's idea was the problem, not that he's scummy.
On the theories/ideas
I can see where DeathNote was coming from, especially prior to mod clarifications,
but there is just too much that we don't know. Also, with all 4 of the rogues receiving an imprint, it's like we'd be setting ourselves up for failure.
Was that the hottest issue at the time? It heads her section on ideas and theories and again subtly defends him. It ignores that many of his suggestions were made AFTER mod clarifications and that fact that this is someone she apparantly is not getting a 'completely scummy feeling from', which to me suggests she's at least getting a partially scummy feeling form him, yet is constantly mentioning him, defending him and attacking his accusors.
You get my point. Starbuck looks to me to clearly be scum with deathnote.
I'm old now.
