Mini 896 - Jekyll Mafia - Game Over

[Nachomamma8]

Must I explain my RVS reasoning?

1) I said it made me look like a weakling, because on policy I think people should stand behind their votes, but I did not based on the strength of the wagon.

2) Yes, early bandwagons get discussion going, but that isn't an excuse to put them all the way to L-3, which I was uncomfortable with. I'm not afraid of having my intentions questioned, because my intent was not to let the badwagon get out of hand.

3) Obviously I did not halt discussion at all.

4) I didn't ask him because we were still in the RVS, and I didn't think it was terribly serious, just serious enough for me to want to move my random vote somewhere else.

1) You're pursuing against your policy by unvoting, then. If you were truly concerned by the strength of the bandwagon, then why didn't you address that more in the unvoting post, and try to dissuade people from pursuing that same bandwagon?

2) If your second point is true, then what was the purpose of the question in the beginning of your post? Was it to minimize my case as much as you could, or did you have an actual reason behind it?

3) And this is only true because Ectomancer and I pursued the case, now isn't it?

4) The RVS ends when someone decides to step up and address it. If everyone had the mindset you displayed in point #4, the RVS wouldn't end until the deadline ended and the scum had a free day to make whatever kills they pleased.

[Budja]

Votecount

2 - Gerhard Krause: (Ectomancer, Nachomamma8)
2 - Nachomamma8: (Unity, MrSuave)
1 - Ectomancer: (Gerhard Krause)
1 - xvart: (HackerHuck)
1 - HackerHuck: (xvart)
1 - kikuchiyo: (PHANTOM)
1 - PHANTOM: (kikuchiyo)
1 - 5cvm: (raider8169)

Not Voting: Green Crayons, 5cvm

With

12

alive it will take

7

to lynch.

[Gerhard Krause]

1) Because I am not bothered by other people pursuing it. Now that I am off, it is no longer at L-3. That was my criteria for unvoting.

2) That's a loaded question. Both of the options you presented involve hidden meanings, however my question did not have such a thing. It was an expression of surprise and frustration at being thoroughly questioned on page 1, although I do applaud you for getting discussion moving. The frustration was born out though because I did not think your train of reasoning would lead anywhere. That his been disproved.

3) That is true the way things turned out, but it is totally implausible that conversation would have simply halted had you not pursued me. There is no strong debate to be threatened this early in the game.

4) On page 1 that is the mindset to be expected. I would be a poor player if I decided to keep that up, and do you really think it would be in any way possible for me to avoid being lynched if I chose to play that way? I do not feel I can be held responsible for not immediately trying to start active discussion on page 1. Personally I enjoy the RVS.

[Nachomamma8]

1) Because I am not bothered by other people pursuing it. Now that I am off, it is no longer at L-3. That was my criteria for unvoting.

2) That's a loaded question. Both of the options you presented involve hidden meanings, however my question did not have such a thing. It was an expression of surprise and frustration at being thoroughly questioned on page 1, although I do applaud you for getting discussion moving. The frustration was born out though because I did not think your train of reasoning would lead anywhere. That his been disproved.

3) That is true the way things turned out, but it is totally implausible that conversation would have simply halted had you not pursued me. There is no strong debate to be threatened this early in the game.

4) On page 1 that is the mindset to be expected. I would be a poor player if I decided to keep that up, and do you really think it would be in any way possible for me to avoid being lynched if I chose to play that way? I do not feel I can be held responsible for not immediately trying to start active discussion on page 1. Personally I enjoy the RVS.

1) Why are you so worried about a bandwagon reaching L-3?

2) Fair enough.

3) However, it would've effectively stopped the bandwagon, something which produces quite a bit of discussion when it gets big enough, and there would be tons more random voting until a semi-serious accusation was made, or another bandwagon formed. Getting the discussion started so early effectively stopped any early attempts to skate through the random discussion and hide for the rest of the day. If you'd like examples of where this has happened, I can produce them.

4) Again, fair enough.


@raider: Why are you trying to extend the RVS when it's obviously already ended? What is your opinion on what's happened so far?

@Ecto: What's your opinion on Gerhard?

@MrSuave: Do you feel putting me at L-3 was a bad move? Why or why not?

@Everyone else: What do you think about what's happened so far? Who do you find yourself agreeing more with, why?

[MrSuave]

well, I wasn't really counting the votes to be honest. I just didn't think your pic made sense =p. but at this point in time, I still don't think it was bad, more of just random. and L-3 isn't dangerous at this point in the game IMO because, the odds of all the scum/anit-town rolls(assuming there are 3 all together) voting you in quick succession are very low. especially since that would generate a lot of suspicion. that's why, if I WAS counting the votes, I still would have made you my RV. if by chance you had gone to L-2/1 I would have gotten off, and stated that there was something up.

a little off topic, but since when could you eat octorocks? O_o

[Nachomamma8]

a little off topic, but since when could you eat octorocks? O_o

Oh, you've never played Cooking Mama: The Legend of Zelda remix?

[Gerhard Krause]

1) I don't feel that allowing a bandwagon to reach that point this early in the game can be helpful to the town. Debate becomes one sided if the whole town is on the same side of a baseless issue, and it takes longer for real discussion to arise.

(Sorry if my policies are confusing. I like the RVS, and I feel entitled to my random votes, but I do not advocate prolonging it.)

2) Settled.

3) I deny that assertion. It is perfectly logical that the bandwagon would continue, and I think it has been proven effectively that my unvoting produced more conversation than the bandwagon was likely to. The point of early bandwagons is to produce debate, and now we are debating. Its purpose has been served.

4) Settled.

I think this debate has given some clear ideas of both of our play styles and positions this early, but it has allowed other players to go unnoticed, though that is to be expected this early.

[Green Crayons]

Must I explain my RVS reasoning?

<explains RVS reasoning>

Your first line makes it seem like you're dismissing critical responses to your random vote. But then you follow up with trying to appease that critical response. So, which is it?

Wow, lots of crap considering we are still random voting.

In other words: Hey look at me!

Unvote, Vote 5cvm

He's scum just hiding in plane sight,

FOS

everyone who doesn't see it!

Mindless RVS propagation. Duly noted.

[Nachomamma8]

1) I don't feel that allowing a bandwagon to reach that point this early in the game can be helpful to the town. Debate becomes one sided if the whole town is on the same side of a baseless issue, and it takes longer for real discussion to arise.

Four people hardly represent the whole town, and I'm sure 5 votes on one person with little to no reasoning is likely to start up some valid accusations and suspicions.

I think this debate has given some clear ideas of both of our play styles and positions this early, but it has allowed other players to go unnoticed, though that is to be expected this early.

If you're afraid about someone going unnoticed, then don't let them. When the discussion starts early, make sure the questions to the less inactive of the group do too.

[Ectomancer]

@Nacho - I don't know him. This was a good time to test skills and reactions. Debating skill looks average, maybe a little below. Seems nervous with the attention and would like it to go away. A bit early for these types of pleas isn't it?

I think this debate has given some clear ideas of both of our play styles and positions this early, but it has allowed other players to go unnoticed, though that is to be expected this early.

I really dislike people who cry about their "right to an rvs", especially when their "right" to it never was in question in the first place. Nobody asked him to explain his first vote, I asked him to explain his unvote and blame game. If he is trying to say his 2nd vote on me was also random and he shouldn't be pressured to explain that "rvs" vote, then he

really

deserves my vote.

I like Green Crayons first paragraph.

[Ectomancer]

Wow, lots of crap considering we are still random voting.

In other words: Hey look at me!

Unvote, Vote 5cvm

He's scum just hiding in plane sight,

FOS

everyone who doesn't see it!

You know what? Yuck.

vote raider8169

[raider8169]

Wow, lots of crap considering we are still random voting.

In other words: Hey look at me!

Unvote, Vote 5cvm

He's scum just hiding in plane sight,

FOS

everyone who doesn't see it!

You know what? Yuck.

vote raider8169

Thank you, I was feeling left out.

[raider8169]

@raider: Why are you trying to extend the RVS when it's obviously already ended? What is your opinion on what's happened so far?

Why not? There is no official ending for the RVS so I thought it would be fun to change my vote a few times. Besides, if the RVS has officially ended wouldnt all the votes casted during the RVS be removed?

I thought what was going on was stupid but I wasnt about to say something as it was sparking conversation which is always good. I saw the third vote as a null tell as well as the unvote.

[xvart]

I find the discussion about Gehrad's vote removal and justifications entirely uninteresting. I probably would have done the same thing had I been on the wagon, although I probably would have waited until L-2. I also agree that Gehrad's not responsible for the bandwagon stopping as anyone else could jump on it at anytime; but I do think Gehrad's action, or rather the questioning of his action, that made it not a day one (page one) shenanigans wagon any longer.

In addition to Ectomancer's reasons, I am voting you because you seem afraid to remain with a bandwagon very long.

I think it is a little premature to decide about someone's general dedication to bandwagons, don't you think? Is the set of one bandwagon (especially one during "RVS") a good representation of all bandwagons? I think not. I think this "additional" justification for the vote is ridiculous.

Nachomamma8 - pursuing the course you are, it appears to me that you are most concerned with the behavior and not necessarily whom the vote was cast on (you). Is this true?

@raider: Why are you trying to extend the RVS when it's obviously already ended? What is your opinion on what's happened so far?

This is a good question, especially considering the response.

Why not? There is no official ending for the RVS so I thought it would be fun to change my vote a few times. Besides, if the RVS has officially ended wouldnt all the votes casted during the RVS be removed?

I thought what was going on was stupid but I wasnt about to say something as it was sparking conversation which is always good. I saw the third vote as a null tell as well as the unvote.

You thought the conversation was stupid, yet it was good because it was conversation; but you did not want to participate? You felt the best move was to just ignore the good, stupid conversation and let everyone else participate while you switched your "vote a few times"?

Vote: raider8169

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP: forgot the unvote...

Unvote: HackerHuck
Vote: raider8169

xvart.

[raider8169]

I find the discussion about Gehrad's vote removal and justifications entirely uninteresting. I probably would have done the same thing had I been on the wagon, although I probably would have waited until L-2. I also agree that Gehrad's not responsible for the bandwagon stopping as anyone else could jump on it at anytime; but I do think Gehrad's action, or rather the questioning of his action, that made it not a day one (page one) shenanigans wagon any longer.

In addition to Ectomancer's reasons, I am voting you because you seem afraid to remain with a bandwagon very long.

I think it is a little premature to decide about someone's general dedication to bandwagons, don't you think? Is the set of one bandwagon (especially one during "RVS") a good representation of all bandwagons? I think not. I think this "additional" justification for the vote is ridiculous.

Nachomamma8 - pursuing the course you are, it appears to me that you are most concerned with the behavior and not necessarily whom the vote was cast on (you). Is this true?

@raider: Why are you trying to extend the RVS when it's obviously already ended? What is your opinion on what's happened so far?

This is a good question, especially considering the response.

Why not? There is no official ending for the RVS so I thought it would be fun to change my vote a few times. Besides, if the RVS has officially ended wouldnt all the votes casted during the RVS be removed?

I thought what was going on was stupid but I wasnt about to say something as it was sparking conversation which is always good. I saw the third vote as a null tell as well as the unvote.

You thought the conversation was stupid, yet it was good because it was conversation; but you did not want to participate? You felt the best move was to just ignore the good, stupid conversation and let everyone else participate while you switched your "vote a few times"?

Vote: raider8169

xvart.

I think you may have misunderstood me. In general, conversation is good. However the conversation that was being had I thought was stupid so I did the wise thing and stayed out of it. Over time it may have evolved into something note worthy however as the basis of it was nothing I did not see that happening.

When you say "let everyone else participate" who was that exactly cause I dont think that was happening. I just happen to be the one that voiced something about it.

[Nachomamma8]

I think it is a little premature to decide about someone's general dedication to bandwagons, don't you think? Is the set of one bandwagon (especially one during "RVS") a good representation of all bandwagons? I think not. I think this "additional" justification for the vote is ridiculous.

I said he seems afraid to stay with a bandwagon for very long because of his wording; he unvoted because L-3 was "a little to hot for him", and he mentioned that he viewed his action as a sign of weakness. And if I can't base what kind of player he is based on his actions right now, then how many bandwagons should I wait to pass before making that judgment?

Nachomamma8 - pursuing the course you are, it appears to me that you are most concerned with the behavior and not necessarily whom the vote was cast on (you). Is this true?

Yes. Do you disagree with my view?

Why not? There is no official ending for the RVS so I thought it would be fun to change my vote a few times. Besides, if the RVS has officially ended wouldnt all the votes casted during the RVS be removed?

Trying to extend the RVS isn't helpful to the town at all. And no, they wouldn't. The mod doesn't remove all votes when he thinks the RVS has ended, generally.

I thought what was going on was stupid but I wasnt about to say something as it was sparking conversation which is always good. I saw the third vote as a null tell as well as the unvote.

Why did you think it was stupid?

I think you may have misunderstood me. In general, conversation is good. However the conversation that was being had I thought was stupid so I did the wise thing and stayed out of it. Over time it may have evolved into something note worthy however as the basis of it was nothing I did not see that happening.

The problem of all of this is that you didn't just stay out of it. You posted a completely useless post that seemed like nothing more than an attempt to extend the RVS, nothing more. If you thought the conversation was stupid but beneficial because it kept the town talking, then why did you try to divert from it by randomly switching your vote, or why didn't you point out how the conversation was stupid and cast a less-random vote?

When you say "let everyone else participate" who was that exactly cause I dont think that was happening. I just happen to be the one that voiced something about it.

You just happen to be the only person that voiced something about it because you were asked directly about it. Before you were asked, you ignored the conversation completely and posted a completely random vote. You realize this, right?

Vote: raider8169

This vote's putting him at L-4, just in case you aren't counting votes

5cvm, Kikuchiyo, HackerHuck, and Phantom... where are you guys?

[PHANTOM]

I agree with Ectomancer's post about how Gerhard Krause's vote was hypocritical. There's not that big of a worry for someone who is at L-3 to be lynched at this moment, because nothing happened, and 3 more people wouldn't come in and hammer.

However, I am not liking Nachomamma8 right now.

I said he seems afraid to stay with a bandwagon for very long because of his wording

LIAR! You said it was because of his actions, not wording. Those two are very different.

And if I can't base what kind of player he is based on his actions right now, then how many bandwagons should I wait to pass before making that judgment?

What I don't get about what you just posted was that you seemed to be going on about Gerhard Krause. And if you're saying that you can't read a player, then why are you directing attention to someone else? You're blaming raider for trying to divert attention away from the conversation, which is exactly what you are trying to do now. Do you now feel that Gerhard Krause made a justifiable move by unvoting? If not, why are you trying to put attention on raider?

Vote: Nachomamma8

[kikuchiyo]

I'm here. Just thoroughly disinterested in this conversation. Less quote walls please. I think xvart is the only one with a valid point as of yet. Would like to hear Raider's response.

[raider8169]

I'm here. Just thoroughly disinterested in this conversation. Less quote walls please. I think xvart is the only one with a valid point as of yet. Would like to hear Raider's response.

My response? I thought I already responded. If I missed something please point it out.

[kikuchiyo]

Sorry. I must have missed that. I think we need a better conversation.

Everyone please answer:

1. What is your experience level?
2. Do you prefer scum roles or town roles?
3. Favorite color.
4. How many players in this lineup have you played with before?

[raider8169]

1. I just started playing again after being gone for like 7 months. I would not say I have a lot of experience but I am not new to this.
2. Either or, my main goal is normally to just try and stay alive throughout the whole game. I think I have managed that twice.
3. Silver (Go Raiders!)
4. I think Green Crayons is the only one but I dont really remember as I have been away for a while. It may just be that I remembered his name.

[xvart]

raider8169 - I lost my train of thought, let me regain it and I will get to your question.

1. What is your experience level?
2. Do you prefer scum roles or town roles?
3. Favorite color.
4. How many players in this lineup have you played with before?

1. completed two games so far on this site and in a couple others. Played a handful of games at another forum where there was less concern with balance, etc. and a strict 2d day/1d night.
2. I prefer scum roles.
3. the yellow in the natural green when the sun shines off of trees and bushes.
4. HackerHuck, kikuchiyo, Ectomancer, 5cvm, Gerhard Krause

xvart.

[Unity]

Hi guys, just chiming in. I've been busy lately but I'm looking forward to the game. The conversation is a bit off for me but I'm sure it'll get interesting.

Unvote

[Ectomancer]

Sorry. I must have missed that. I think we need a better conversation.

Everyone please answer:

1. What is your experience level?
2. Do you prefer scum roles or town roles?
3. Favorite color.
4. How many players in this lineup have you played with before?

I dont think the Raider conversation is so bad. The game starter was /old quickly though.

1. 25-30+ games now I think going on 3 years. It really seems like I've played in more...The Lost Boys took 9 months to complete!
2. There is no doubt that vanilla is my preferred role. I feel the most relaxed.
3: Im definitely on the blue/purple/red end of the spectrum when it comes to colors, though I'd have to say I wear blue primarily. But my curtains are crimson!
4:
raider8169 - Dont think so?
HackerHuck - Yes, reason I signed up for this game.
MrSuave - I think so?
kikuchiyo - Yep
5cvm - I want to say yes
PHANTOM - No?
Nachomamma8 - Yes, shoots in the gut
xvart - yes...I think
Green Crayons - no
Gerhard Krause - no
Unity - no
Budja - yes