Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[ChiboSempai]

As for his latest reply, I really don't understand why he's suspicious of everyone on the 5cvm wagon.

I think there is at least 1 scum on the 5cvm wagon. I don't think I am alone in this thinking. xvart/you both stated hito was being too opportunistic. I kinda think scott/arafan/confidanon were being more opportunistic, but w.e

I completely agree, but in that case - you say that you think one of them is scum, not that you think they're all suspicious lol. Saying you think they're all suspicious means you think they are all scum.

Well, in terms of that way of thinking (it's another good point to add to other scumtells), I'm still eyeing Aranfan and definitely Scott now for what I said in my last post. One of the two should be lynched today. I've been vocal about Aranfan before, and Scott really hasn't helped much this game at all and is acting pretty tunneled on 5cvm without commenting on too much of the game up to now.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Whoops, i meant 5cvm. Sry about that D:

[xvart]

I'm jumping ship on this 5cvm wagon. As I thought more and more about it, my justification is absurd, that being the connection between 5cvm to Evilgorillaz would require that 5cvm is town. Lynching a townie to maybe prove someone is scum? I'm embarrassed I even thought such a thing.

As for his latest reply, I really don't understand why he's suspicious of everyone on the 5cvm wagon.

I think there is at least 1 scum on the 5cvm wagon. I don't think I am alone in this thinking. xvart/you both stated hito was being too opportunistic. I kinda think scott/arafan/confidanon were being more opportunistic, but w.e

Changing your tune from throwing a blanket suspicion on everyone on the wagon to only at least one person on the wagon is scum? Did you get too much attention for your comment and are now backing off? I believe Scott was on the mark with EG's post reeking of knowing that 5cvm is town.

Instead of lynching 5cvm to see if Evilgorillaz is scum, why don't we lynch Evilgorillaz to get more information on 5cvm? I think this is a much more pro-town play because Evilgorillaz is acting scummy while 5cvm has acted anti-town. I'd rather lynch the scum.

Unvote: 5cvm
Vote: Evilgorillaz

xvart.

[Aranfan]

Okay, I'm done with my finals. Will post more when I've caught up.

[hitogoroshi]

It's not absurd at all. I thought you guys had understood the policy lynch thing, but since xvart and chibo made the same mistake again I'm going to repeat myself yet again.

5cvm is anti-town.

We have two options:

a.) Decide that he has acted so anti-town we may as well treat him as confirmed town for the rest of the game. This is mind-numbingly stupid and I hope no one seriously had this line of thought. No, instead, you guys are apparently in camp two:

b.) lynch him later. But when? What day are we going to say, 'Alright, we're abandoning scum reads and lynching 5cvm'? I don't think you guys realize that we are never going to get a scum read on 5cvm, because he is never going to offer more information than he is now. What day should be lynch him? (spoiler alert: it's day one.)

I think in my haste to point out that a policy lynch works regardless of alignment you guys got it in your head that 5cvm is almost certainly town, or something. That's not true. With the username '5cvm' and the fact that his playstyle is probably the reason he is an alt freshly minted, it's probably a null tell. He is not, not, not, 'so scummy he must be town.' We don't know his alignment, and we are going to find out today when he lynch him.

xvart, your action in particular worries me.

Instead of lynching 5cvm to see if Evilgorillaz is scum, why don't we lynch Evilgorillaz to get more information on 5cvm? I think this is a much more pro-town play because Evilgorillaz is acting scummy while 5cvm has acted anti-town. I'd rather lynch the scum.

5cvm is trying to give us as little information as possible. Why oh why should we bend over backwards trying to figure out his alignment when he is working so hard not to tell us? What makes you so sure we are lynching a townie, anyway?

[hitogoroshi]

Also: yes, Scott is completely taking the easy lynch. But it's worth pointing out way. The reason that 5cvm is so righteously deserving of a lynch that he doesn't need to make any sort of case. This isn't an inherent problem of Scott's, and yet you guys seem to think that he must be scum because he didn't go for some new target out of the blue. Yes, I'm certainly going to watch him really closely day two because I'm not getting much info on him day one. But you really need to remember that sometimes the easy lynch targets are easy targets because they

really, really need to be lynched

. Going for obscure targets isn't a town tell; going for scummy or anti-town players is a town tell.

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Worth pointing out *why, rather.

[xvart]

I think in my haste to point out that a policy lynch works regardless of alignment you guys got it in your head that 5cvm is almost certainly town, or something. That's not true. With the username '5cvm' and the fact that his playstyle is probably the reason he is an alt freshly minted, it's probably a null tell.

I agree that 5cvm's alignment is independent of his name. I don't

believe

that he is definitely town.

Hito - Do you think that if one of Evilgorillaz or 5cvm is scum then the other one is, too? Or do you believe that one is scum and one is town? Or do you not know/care or think it could be any possible combination (town/town, town/scum, or scum/scum)?

And before anyone slaps me for setting up a dichotomy (hissss!), the reason I ask is because Evilgorrilaz post does seem like he knows that 5cvm is going to flip town if/when he gets lynched. This concerns me greatly and since I had previous suspicions of Evilgorillaz being scum (as my previous vote on him proves) then if Evilgorillaz is scum, I would be more inclined to believe that 5cvm is town, but that still would not be a guarantee.

My vote for 5cvm, as I tried to explain, was absurd because in my reasoning I said that I wanted to get more information about Evilgorillaz, but the end result, if Evilgorillaz flips scum, is that I helped lynch a town-aligned individual to get more information about someone I already suspected as being scum. That is unacceptable in my book, and thus I unvoted.

Hito - how would you feel if 5cvm was lynched and he flipped a town power role?

xvart.

[xvart]

going for scummy or anti-town players is a town tell.

No, going for anti-town players is not a town tell at all. Going for anti-town players could be done just as easily by a mafia, especially since mafia know the person is town and just behaving anti-town; making the perfect mislynch while appearing to scumhunt.

xvart.

[hitogoroshi]

Hito - Do you think that if one of Evilgorillaz or 5cvm is scum then the other one is, too? Or do you believe that one is scum and one is town? Or do you not know/care or think it could be any possible combination (town/town, town/scum, or scum/scum)?

5cvm town flip will have me a bit more willing to listen to the idea of gorillaz-scum. 5cvm scum flip would be more or less null to me. Gorrillaz flip doesn't tell me about 5cvm either way (though it does give me an idea on a couple of other players.)

My vote for 5cvm, as I tried to explain, was absurd because in my reasoning I said that I wanted to get more information about Evilgorillaz, but the end result, if Evilgorillaz flips scum, is that I helped lynch a town-aligned individual to get more information about someone I already suspected as being scum. That is unacceptable in my book, and thus I unvoted.

5cvm may have 'town' in his role PM, but I dare you to say he's working with the town with a straight face. We're lynching an anti-town individual and in the process maybe giving some weight to a scum read. That doesn't sound at all absurd to me.

Hito - how would you feel if 5cvm was lynched and he flipped a town power role?

The same way I'd feel if he flipped vanilla town - disgusted that a townie thought this was a good way to help out the town.

No, going for anti-town players is not a town tell at all. Going for anti-town players could be done just as easily by a mafia, especially since mafia know the person is town and just behaving anti-town; making the perfect mislynch while appearing to scumhunt.

Err, yeah, I made that too simple to contrast with the previous sentence. Going for scummy and anti-town players is a townie ACTION. In this case, you're right, it's closer to a null tell than a town tell (though in this case I'm still willing to give a couple of town points to Scott for walking in understanding the idea of policy lynching; I think scum would want to 'be convinced' a bit more before committing.) But the point still stands that it's not always a townie action to go for hard targets and it's not always a scummy action to go for easy targets.

[Scott Brosius]

We need to remove the distraction now, as it will just get worse on subsequent days and hinder our ability to scum-hunt. I gave my reads on other players, but 5cvm is being so anti-town it speaks for itself. I don't see another way to go D1.

Do any of us like 5cvm? Of course not. But I still feel there is a better option for finding/looking for scum today. You just replaced into the game and I don't like this tunnelvision you have on who is easily the easiest person to cast suspicion on. You're just looking for an easy person to lynch it seems, and I REALLY don't like that.

What do you think of my EG case since you apparently ignored or didn't care to read it?

I think there is at least 1 scum on the 5cvm wagon.

I love when people say this. It's such an empty statement in an attempt to say that a wagon is bad. Have you ever met a wagon especially D1 (regardless of the alignment of the person being lynched) that did NOT have scum on it?

Well, in terms of that way of thinking (it's another good point to add to other scumtells), I'm still eyeing Aranfan and definitely Scott now for what I said in my last post. One of the two should be lynched today. I've been vocal about Aranfan before, and Scott really hasn't helped much this game at all and is acting pretty tunneled on 5cvm without commenting on too much of the game up to now.

Why do you keep ignoring that I changed my vote? You haven't even addressed my case on EG.

[hitogoroshi]

Not gonna lie, I also totally forgot you put your vote on EG when I wrote 355, scott.

[TheButtonmen]

5cvm is anti-town.

How? You keep saying this without backing it up.

I don't think you guys realize that we are never going to get a scum read on 5cvm, because he is never going to offer more information than he is now.

Why can't we get a read on 5cvm? You keep bashing away with the idea that he's antitown and unreadable, agian without supporting your statment.

[Aranfan]

My vote for 5cvm was because hito argued his point well enough to change my mind. Is changing one's mind scummy now?

If you don't explain convincingly how and why did you change your mind... yes it is.

The fact is that you totally flipped and are now willing to vote someone you thought was a jester.

EBWOP: Specifically, Hito convinced me that the benefit to the town of lynching 5cvm outweighed the benefit of keeping the Jester alive.

This is better. But we still need a lot more from you.

Who do you think is scum? why?

Now then, I changed my mind because hito made good and cogent points. 5cvm is posting a lack of content, he's basically posting cats, except they're offensive lolcats. He is negatively impacting the ability of the Town to scumhunt by not only depriving us of whatever mental abilities he may have, but also by declaring that random person X is one of his scumbuddies, usually those who attack him.


As for who I think might be scum:

5cvm: May be scum, claiming scum is a supposed to be a shitty way to avoid getting lynched but it seems to be working for him. Even if he isn't scum, he is actively working against the interests of the town.

Evilgorilaz: He seems way too sure 5cvm is a townie, I said in my second post in the thread that "only scum know scum out the gate" and that also means that only Scum know who is town out the gate. I would be satisfied with a Gorilaz lynch, but would prefer to get 5cvm out of the way first so that he won't get in the way of scumhunting later like he is today.



Those two are the only ones who hit my scumdar hard. The "case" on me seems to be based on shitty logic, and makes me suspicious of the people pushing it, but I might be biased. The rest are neutral to town.

[Boxman]

Since ConfidAnon has failed to even pick up his prod, he is being replaced.

[5cvm]

Guys, get over me. Lynch someone. Preferably xvart. Xvart and TheButtonmen are still the scum. Aranfan and especially Scott Brosius have been behaving very badly. Especially Scott Brosius. But who am I to judge? Behaving badly doesn't make you scum, anyway (except when it does.) <-- yeah I know I'm super helpful-profound.

he's basically posting cats, except they're offensive lolcats.

[ChiboSempai]

5cvm is acting so out there you can't tell if he's town or scum yet. At this point it would be better if we scumhunt elsewhere and lynch someone else. You can't get a legit scum read on 5cvm which makes him not a safe target for D1 (D2+ could be a whole other story).

Also, he's not really being anti-town. Sure he's not helping us, but not helping us =/= hurting us so to say. As a metaphor, he's not doing a "bad job," he's just not working at all really.

[ChiboSempai]

What do you think of my EG case since you apparently ignored or didn't care to read it?

I saw your case, and it's quite bothersome really. All you said is straight up that you don't like his extreme confidence on 5cvm being town. Is this a course for concern? Yes. Though what I also don't get is that the post before (maybe 2, I forget) your vote switch to EvilGorillaz you said you didn't see any other way to go about D1 than to lynch 5cvm and yet you seemed to switch pretty easily. Tell me this, why would you rather vote EG over 5cvm now?

[TheButtonmen]

Inactive game is inactive, Mod there's multiple players well over the 3 day mark, can we get a round of prods?

[Aranfan]

Inactive game is inactive, Mod there's multiple players well over the 3 day mark, can we get a round of prods?

Seconded.

[Humble Poirot]

mmm...

This game has not improved...

5cvm discussing theory is absurd at this point...

Wait, if I was town, do you think I'd intentionally try to lose? Maybe I need to seriously reevaluate the amount of faith people have in other players of mafia.

Dude... as scum or town... you have played as if you were trying to lose... so if you hadn't. The only thing that would make sense would be for you to be a jester.

What on earth is this?, Aranfan?

@Humble
I'm confused now. Are you are finding people scummy based on how much emotion they show while advocating a policy lynch?

Wait... WHAT? no... way... you get that from my actions...

Where did I advocate a policy lynch?
On another note. Emotion and the way in wich people act & react can be telling, yes.

As for his latest reply, I really don't understand why he's suspicious of everyone on the 5cvm wagon.

I think there is at least 1 scum on the 5cvm wagon. I don't think I am alone in this thinking. xvart/you both stated hito was being too opportunistic. I kinda think scott/arafan/confidanon were being more opportunistic, but w.e

1 scum in a 4 people waggon? Wow... what are the odds?

hitogoroshi... We WONT GET INFO from lynching 5cvm. It would be useful ONLY if he was scum. And he is not. I can read that much from his behaviour. He wouldn't be bold enough to pull such a stunt if scum. I'm sure.

Therefore. Lynching 5cvm is the most useless move even though he might be anti-town all game. Lets lynch scum before he hurts us more than he has already.

I still feel that those team-guesses and one or the other guesses people are posting are a direct way to failure and subject to scum manipulation.

We need to stop posting senseless filler posts about this. Vote who you think will FLIP scum.

MOD: You're responsable for this. We need to have votecounts regularly, at least after votes change...

Who's not voting yet? Why?

[Aranfan]

What on earth is this?, Aranfan?

I was repeating what was, for me, Hito's most convincing argument. Here's a more nuanced explanation.

[xvart]

We need to stop posting senseless filler posts about this. Vote who you think will FLIP scum.

I am.

xvart.

[Boxman]

Since exams week appears to be over now...

Prodding A_Squirrel, and Evilgorrilaz. Still searching for replacements for Seregil and ConfidAnon.

[Boxman]

Vote Count 9 of Day 1

5cvm (3) - hitogoroshi, ConfidAnon, Aranfan
Evilgorrilaz (3) - Humble Poirot, Scott Brosius, xvart
Aranfan (2) - TheButtonmen, ChiboSempai
xvart (1) - 5cvm

Not Voting (3) - A_Squirrel, Evilgorrilaz, Seregil