Mini 896 - Jekyll Mafia - Game Over

[kikuchiyo]

What do you mean, raider? Are you saying that either Nacho or 5cvum has to be mafia?

[HackerHuck]

Unvote

[b/]

Vote: 5vcm

I'm tiring of this quite rapidly.

[Unity]

Meh

Nachomamma8

Not sure if it's the right direction, but at least we're going somewhere.

[raider8169]

What do you mean, raider? Are you saying that either Nacho or 5cvum has to be mafia?

That is what I am thinking. If 5cum got something saying Nacho is scum as town he would say something as scum he would be lying. So if Nacho is scum then 5cum would be confirmed town, right? If Nacho is town then only scum would risk something like that, right? As long as I am not missing something it seems pretty straight forward.

[kikuchiyo]

As long as I am not missing something it seems pretty straight forward.

I think you're missing the point that 5cvm might just be an asshole.

[5cvm]

What?

[5cvm]

Meh

Nachomamma8

Not sure if it's the right direction, but at least we're going somewhere.

By the way, I think this puts Nachomamm7 at L-1 (assuming it's a vote).

L-1... on page 4!

Now that's interesting.

[5cvm]

I feel that raider8169 is certainly town kikuchiyo is almost certainly scum.

Raider8169 reacted to my claim with basic, stand-by reason that will help the town. Kikuchiyo... voted my guy, questioned raider, and then decided to tell raider

I think you're missing the point that 5cvm might just be an asshole.

?0.o

[kikuchiyo]

I am voting Nacho for his decision to not answer my questions. You have claimed "role information" which leads you to believe Nacho is 80-90% scum. Raider has voted Nacho based on the "false dilemma" that one of you two must be scum.

Out of those three reasons for a vote, mine is the least ridiculous. Also, if you are now backtracking and saying you don't think Nacho is scum, why are you leaving him at L-1? (btw: he's not at L-1)

Are you saying that your "role information" statement was some sort of gambit?

If so, why am I scum, but Unity isn't?

[5cvm]

Raider has voted Nacho based on the "false dilemma" that one of you two must be scum.

Yeah... that was not a false dilemma at all. If you bothered to think instead of just deciding that criticizing dichotomies (which are not, contrary to popular belief, scummy) you'd know that! Sorry scummy-kik!

Are you saying that your "role information" statement was some sort of gambit?

Hm, why would you simply assume that? Wasn't my soft-claimed role information with all its context plausible enough for you? Or are you, perhaps, a little more informed than the rest of us! :O

[MrSuave]

man, the situation hasn't changed for Mr.notmymama... but I may I ask for a vote count? if mama is at L-1 then I'd like to know. I don't want the day to be only 4 pages, you know?

[5cvm]

Yeah... that was not a false dilemma at all. If you bothered to think instead of just deciding

to criticize

dichotomies (which are not, contrary to popular belief, scummy) you'd know that! Sorry scummy-kik!

Typo-fix

Meh

Nachomamma8

Not sure if it's the right direction, but at least we're going somewhere.

This initially appeared scummy to me. However, I realized that scum would not make this post. This is a towny post!

[xvart]

At the very least it helps us find out whose going to be helpful and polite and whose going to be assholes.

Hilariously classic.

I think you're missing the point that 5cvm might just be an asshole.

This is what I agree with.

xvart.

[kikuchiyo]

5cvm: Are you being deliberately obtuse here? If what Raider said is not a false dilemma, then that means that either you or he is scum. Do you believe that I am partnered with Nacho?

You say you have role information that states that Nacho is 80-90% scum.

How does that translate into either Nacho or 5cvm is scum? In my opinion you could both be scum, or you could both be town. Therefore the statement "Either Nacho or 5cvm is mafia" is, in fact, a false dilemma. I don't believe anyone said anything about dichotomies being scummy. I was simply pointing out to Raider that his reasoning was illogical.

Also, you say Unity's post is town, but you scoff at the idea of L-1 on page 4. If Unity's vote actually counted(which it shouldn't), then he would be the player who put Nacho at L-1 on page 4.

Hm, why would you simply assume that?

I assumed nothing. I am asking you to clarify your statement.

Wasn't my soft-claimed role information with all its context plausible enough for you?

What context? Your statement was vague at best. I don't know of any role which would not have a day power but still give you information regarding another players role.

Unvote, Vote: 5cvm

Your attempts to twist what I am saying into anything other than questions is noted. Your inability to clarify your stance is noted. Your skirting of questions is noted. Explain yourself.

[Nachomamma8]

quote]
Nacho asking irrelevant questions and Raider perpetuating. Good vote targets.
[/quote]
Please explain the relevance of kikuchiyo's questions, and I'll explain the relevance of mine.

I am voting Nacho for his decision to not answer my questions. You have claimed "role information" which leads you to believe Nacho is 80-90% scum. Raider has voted Nacho based on the "false dilemma" that one of you two must be scum.

You asked a bunch of useless questions, including my favorite color. You can figure out who I've played with by everyone else's responses, and you will get through the night without knowing what role I'm comfortable in playing in.

That being said, I'm surprised that people even thought I was serious. And I also think that kiikuchiyo's comment + xvart's reaction to it was a bit immature; after all, this is still a game, and you don't have to call people assholes in order to play it properly. 5cvm is spamming. So I spammed back.

That is what I am thinking. If 5cum got something saying Nacho is scum as town he would say something as scum he would be lying. So if Nacho is scum then 5cum would be confirmed town, right? If Nacho is town then only scum would risk something like that, right? As long as I am not missing something it seems pretty straight forward.

...

...

...this is the most confusing post I think I've read in my life...

[kikuchiyo]

Sorry, Nacho. Perhaps I could have used some smilies or something. I was just pointing out that my questions

would

differentiate people pertaining to their willingness to cooperate. I didn't mean to offend, I was just trying to be funny.

You asked a bunch of useless questions, including my favorite color. You can figure out who I've played with by everyone else's responses, and you will get through the night without knowing what role I'm comfortable in playing in.

See. I can tell you're a grumpy Gus from the way you ansered.

I agree that Raider's thought process is skewed, but I'm not sure if I can determine alignment from it. He could just be confused. I am more concerned now with dealing with our resident spammer. Any thoughts in that direction?

[Ectomancer]

quote]
Nacho asking irrelevant questions and Raider perpetuating. Good vote targets.

Please explain the relevance of kikuchiyo's questions, and I'll explain the relevance of mine.[/quote]

Kiku expressed her dislike of the opening convo and opted to present "the quiz", which is another popular method of beginning a game, and often has inane questions tossed in with semi-serious ones. Personally I thought she did it a bit late, and that there was conversation brewing already around raider, but it was her 3rd post, so in that context it wasn't maybe

so

late. Does it make it any more useful than your comments? Only slightly, but definitely it is in a different context and that does make a difference.

You on the other hand chimed in to delve into Hackerhucks question of whether the rvs has an actual "ending". That is simply trying to fill the thread with conversation that, while mafia based, is really more like mafia philosophy that belongs in an MD thread. It's not a dangerous path. People may have different opinions, but ultimately you aren't going to lynch somebody because they think they rvs ends as soon as <insert condition here>. So you wanting to walk down it tells me you are trying to use it to get activity in that ultimately will cool down the pressure on you by allowing you to talk about non-threatening mafia related items.
Well, I don't mind you cooling down the pressure on you, but I expect you to do it by progressing the game, not by taking a safer sidepath.

[5cvm]

Are you saying that your "role information" statement was some sort of gambit?

Yes, it was a gambit. A gambit inspired by my actual role, though. But you seemed to know this right away, which is odd (especially considering your failure to wow me with any other example of the insight required to see my "gambit.")

To clarify, though, Nachomamma was never mentioned in my role PM. Nachomamma has recently joined my heavy town reads.

TOWN:
Nachomamma
Raid8169

The way it seems to upset you makes me think you're scum. Your recent posts do nothing to help that. For example:

5cvm: Are you being deliberately obtuse here? If what Raider said is not a false dilemma, then that means that either you or he is scum. Do you believe that I am partnered with Nacho?

Usually I expect some sobering logic when someone says "Are you being deliberately obtuse here?" But in this case, no such luck.

What raider said was 100% a correct dilemma at the time. I do not believe you're partered with Nacho (although, yes, I had heavily considered that possibility at one point) because I presently believe Nacho is town.

[5cvm]

unvote

[kikuchiyo]

*Facepalm*

5cvm: Please show where I "seemed to know this right away"?

You said you had definitive information that Nacho was mafia. You encouraged players to vote Nacho. Then you called me scum for questioning Raider's "false dilemma". Therefore I asked you to clarify what you were talking about. I questioned your motives because your logic was bad. You brought your own "role info" into question with your actions of attacking me when you had this "supposed" information regarding Nacho's alignment.

What raider said was 100% a correct dilemma at the time.

No. Raider embraced a "false dilemma". You had not(and have not since) clarified your supposed role info(which you now admit is false). The either/or deduction of you or Nacho being scum was inherently bad logic.

You claimed you were town. You claimed 80-90% Nacho being scum. Even if your statistics hadn't been pulled entirely out of your ass, that leaves a 10-20% chance that Nacho could be town. Therefore the statement "Based on this information either 5cvm or Nacho is mafia" is a false dilemma. Google it. Its basic logic.

[Ectomancer]

Are you saying that your "role information" statement was some sort of gambit?

Yes, it was a gambit. A gambit inspired by my actual role, though. But you seemed to know this right away, which is odd (especially considering your failure to wow me with any other example of the insight required to see my "gambit.")

Look, when you use phrases like "heavily indicating" and 80-90%, one of the

first

thoughts that come to mind is that you are bullshitting.
On the second point, it was definitely a false dilemma.

(yay for Kiku buddying)

[5cvm]

You claimed you were town. You claimed 80-90% Nacho being scum. Even if your statistics hadn't been pulled entirely out of your ass, that leaves a 10-20% chance that Nacho could be town. Therefore the statement "Based on this information either 5cvm or Nacho is mafia" is a false dilemma. Google it. Its basic logic.

Sometimes I think people on this website get so caught up in being belligerent and accusatory that what they're actually talking about goes right out the window. In my first game here, I got really caught up in a entirely useless and unneccesary argument with one of those people, so needless to say I decided I'd never let

that

happen again.

Obviously accepting raider's dichotomy requires a gamble (with odds between 1/10 and 1/5) that my self-professed 80-90% chance would not "land" in the 10-20% Nacho-town margin. In this game we make way bigger gambles than that allll the time.

"heavily indicating" and 80-90%, one of the first thoughts that come to mind is that you are bullshitting.

Ok, while I admit that my "gambit" (which hardly deserves the title) was anything but inpenetrable, several people accepted it, and in the process of making it I made a second post with much more convincing wording.

Furthermore, it gained me all this fantastic knowledge about people's alignments. While I'm becoming less certain of kiku's alignment (unwarrented belligerence, while unhelpful, doesn't tend to come from scum), I'm fairly certain of Nachomamma's and raider's townyness.

(yay for Kiku buddying)

This is the kind of thing scum would say because they would think scum wouldn't say it. (That combined with a "it's the little things that count" philosophy. )

[Ectomancer]

I happen to like Kiku.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, I don't mind you cooling down the pressure on you, but I expect you to do it by progressing the game, not by taking a safer sidepath.

My question to HackerHuck was going to be followed up other questions based on his response. Because if he doesn't think that the RVS actually ends, then he certainly wouldn't mind people who tried to extend the RVS: after all, why is it scummy to extend something that never stops?

Any thoughts in that direction?

Far too often people get lynched because they have an annoying playstyle, even though these playstyles are great for gathering reactions off people. However, these are also NOT the kind of people you want around when LyLo approached- they make obvious targets and a townie that might be a little annoyed by his playstyle could let bias cloud their judgment. So, we need to take this into mind as we progress through the days.

I happen to like Kiku.

And you don't like anyone else? Why can't we

ALL

be friends?

[HackerHuck]

My question to HackerHuck was going to be followed up other questions based on his response. Because if he doesn't think that the RVS actually ends, then he certainly wouldn't mind people who tried to extend the RVS: after all, why is it scummy to extend something that never stops?

First, I don't see a lot of value in debating gameplay or theory in the abstract. It's useless clutter that takes away from hunting scum. Call me scrooge, but I also don't really believe that there's a "random voting phase". The game usually begins with a bunch of random votes, but not everyone's playing along the whole time. If you want to call it a random voting phase, it really ends at different times for different people and not everyone even participates.

So now I've just spent the last five minutes typing up something that has no real relevance to this game and will just take up space. That's why I don't want people to talk about the random voting phase.