Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[pman5595]

Vote: Everyone

because the RVS is stupid and a waste of time.

Unvote: Everyone

[pman5595]

Vote: Curiouskarmadog

Everyone knows

cats

are curious, not dogs!

Vote: Sorasgoof

Monkeys are FAR more curious than cats

FoS: Curiouskarmadog

for that same reason

[pman5595]

[quote="Konowa"]@pman - Why do you bash RVS in post 7 calling it "stupid and wasteful", but then random vote/fos in post 18?[quote]
I just got bored, that's all. And while the RVS is generally not very useful, it's still tons of fun.

[pman5595]

[quote="Konowa"@pman - Boredom does not explain the contradiction. If you believe RVS to be "fun", then why did you not vote in your first post?[/quote]
in the first post, I wanted to start scumhunting. The second post came after me realizing we weren't able to yet.

Unvote sorasgoof

[pman5595]

PoS: Fugitive, RichardGHP

(yes Scorehero, I'm bringing the penis of suspicion back )

not really sure enough to vote for either one yet.

[pman5595]

PoS: Fugitive, RichardGHP

(yes Scorehero, I'm bringing the penis of suspicion back )

not really sure enough to vote for either one yet.

How do you point that sucker at more than one person though

well there was this incident a few years back with my pet llama, a blender, and the TV show teletubbies. I don't want to talk about it.

[pman5595]

I've decided.

Vote: Fugitive

First he bandwagoned on Richard, then when asked about the CSL wagon he sasid he doesn't like bandwagons this early. Then he seemed to be overly defensive when questioned about. It has a scummy feel.

[pman5595]

I've decided.

Vote: Fugitive

First he bandwagoned on Richard, then when asked about the CSL wagon he sasid he doesn't like bandwagons this early. Then he seemed to be overly defensive when questioned about. It has a scummy feel.

Ok, let's dissect this. This so called "bandwagon" on Richard was the second vote. If I was going to band wagon I definitely would have gone for CSL. It was not a bandwagon in the slightest, it was a random vote. Me disliking the CSL bandwagon is an entirely different and unrelated matter.

I'm sorry if you interpret this as

overly

defensive rather than just defending my play. Do you really think after reading my play last game that I would play so irresponsibly this game?

@Pie - I don't really find pman scummy, he just seems overeager and unsure of what to do. The same things I find in Richard. The OMGUS was a random/joke vote. That's why I added "OMGUS" with it...

that is believable, I'll admit.

unvote fugitive

I still have my finger- ...er... penis on you.

PoS: Fugitive

[pman5595]

Others' observations on pman seem good. he's trying to distract by throwing in too much humor (scum tell imo) while remaining very non-committal about his vote. His quick vote and then unvote of Fugitive after three paragraphs of defense from Fugi was especially telling, as if he's scared to get caught on a bandwagon.

the humor was meant to entertain, not to distract. I just figured that we were just coming off the RVS and a little humor wouldn't be out of line

I'm non-committal about my vote because it's day 1. We have basically nothing to go on. That is something I have noticed about this site. People seem likely to vote for someone with a lot less information than I would be comfortable with. I unvoted Fugitive because after rereading his posts, while still seeming suspicious, it wasn't enough for me to comfortably vote.

[pman5595]

I find a random lynch one of the best options we have unless someone basically acts very scummy.

This is bad. I know from another game I am playing that people will start to act scummy on day 1, it just takes some time. A random lynch would help nothing, and would most likely be a townie. Scum could easily jump on a random townie lynch. The best bet is to wait it out until someone starts acting scummy.

That might be what you were getting at, I couldn't tell for sure.

[pman5595]

I think I'm going to

vote: diddin

because I trust that he'll be able to contribute something if pressured. Dana is in another game I'm playing and isn't doing much of anything, and I've never played with CSL. So, diddin, thoughts so far?

He might not know the game has started. WE didn't confirm in thread so he might not even know where this thread is. Should someone pm him with a link to the thread?

[pman5595]

also, I have seen CSL post elsewhere on the forums, so I would like to hear from them as well as diddin, and dragonsofsummer.

[pman5595]

What I am thinking is by no mean rock solid. It is, however, more gut than anything else. Before I lay out my thoughts I would like for everyone is who is

not

voting to vote who they think is the scummiest so far with a brief explanation why. This will help town out immensely.

Since no one else seems to be willing to go first, I'll try it.

Vote: The Longing

He definitely is the most suspicious player as of now.

His first serious post in the thread didn't come until page 4, and only after a prodding by Konowa. In that post he said that a random lynch was one of our best options but he wouldn't know who to random lynch. That sort of struck me as odd.

His next post was asking Konowa who he thought was the scummiest, it seemed kind of jumpy and defensive, especially since konowa had already contributed a lot to the thread.

His next post basically stated that he didn't have any ideas who is scum, with a lot of filler.

His latest post asked anyone to ask him a question, and he will answer it. I have a question for him: Why were you in support of a random lynch? that seems like a sure way to lynch town, and won't help find scum at all

Is that the kind of thing you were looking for, konowa?

[pman5595]

I'm up for it, Konowa.

Vote: TheLonging

Despite saying that he has "a few thoughts," he isn't really taking a stance on anything. He writes this off by saying that there hasn't been anything to go off of from only four pages, but I highly disagree. There have been quite a few events and some decent discussion all around, so to not have any opinions after all that is strange. Everyone else has had something to say, so why doesn't he?

why must you do this to me. In the post I say "I'll go first", I get ninja'd

FML

[pman5595]

I find CSL very suspicious because he's lurking instead of contributing at all to the thread.

I agree with that. CSL, post in here with opinions, please.

BUT, which is more suspicious, not acting, or acting scummy?

[pman5595]

@pie: I don't think that reluctance to vote is scum tell, it's more of a style of play.

A voteless townie would also explain reluctance (which is in fact inability) to vote. Either way, we can't determine that this early in the game.

but sorasgoof voted in the RVS, so he's not voteless.

[pman5595]

TheLonging: It's good that you're defending yourself, but I would also like a claim, as would other people, I believe. It's seems appropriate at L-1

[pman5595]

/facepalm

Wow. I just noticed that. That's a major error that I should have caught.

Again.

It seems like TheLonging "misses" his scummy actions until someone calls him out on them, then he acts like he didn't mean it. Looks very suspicious to me.

[pman5595]

pman just jumped on my scumdar for his request for a claim. A few people have posted since he has been at L-1, and none have asked for a claim. I think that it is bad to try to speak for everyone when no one else posting has asked for a claim.

I said that I spoke for some other people because I thought a claim was generally in order when someone was about to get lynched. It always happened in the scorehero game, and is happening in the other game I'm playing right now.

[pman5595]

oh, and with Annachie's vote, TheLonging is back at L-1

[pman5595]

Pman however, starts out the game inconsistently in the RVS, then seems eager for somebody to hammer TL. Posting that TL is at L-1 without adding any other content could mean "hey mafia buddies, somebody hammer him quick!" Not enough to warrent a vote, but enough to warrant an

FoS

for

pman

.

I already explained myself for page one. For the other point, you interpret that in one way to associate it with a scumtell, but it could just have easily been to prevent a lurker coming in to vote without knowing they were hammering. I did not mean it either way, it was just for general information purposes, sort of like posting vote totals. But still, you seem to just be looking for scum, which is fine. Just remember to assess all scenarios before writing it off as a scumtell.

Question to everyone with their vote on TheLonging:

Given recent events, including the claim, do you still find TheLonging scum? If so, why?

I still find him scummy, and he is definitely the most scummy looking person right now, so for that reason I will keep my vote on him.

Obviously if someone else starts to look scummy, I will reconsider.

[pman5595]

wow. never going on another sleepover because missing 5 pages isn't fun.

Unvote: TheLonging

for now. gonna reread and then make a decision

[pman5595]

okay, I would like to thank TheLonging for gathering all of Richards posts in one place.

Richard seems VERY suspicious in general, with constantly noobclaiming and trying to appease everyone instead appeasing himself and his own opinions. He claims early, without prompting, and he claims a very pro-town role. I am still trying to interpret the claim. On one hand, he could really be a JOAT, and it would be disastrous to lynch him. On the other hand, he could be scum trying to claim the most pro-town role they could, to ease suspicion. For now, I'm going to stick with a very heavy

FoS: RichardGHP

, and I still have an

FoS:

on

TheLonging

However, I'm gonna pull a Parama, and

Vote: malpascp

until he stops this lurking business.

other potentially suspicious people: diddin is slightly suspicious for that no-lynch vote, but I made the same mistake in another game for the same reasons. I believe he is still pro-town at this point. Sorasgoof and ready2rock are slightly suspicious for their reluctance to vote, but I think that is just cautiousness.

People who I think are pro-town: EtherealCookie, NavyCherub, Parama, Konowa

[pman5595]

pman in 318. Shows a lot of neutralness in the fact that he finds TL and Rich suspicious, instead opts for a third option in malp. In itself, that isn't that scummy... yet. If he comes under fire, though, it could be interpreted as him pushing for either wagon without being on it. His other "potentially suspicious people" list consists of him waffling (am I using that right?). He does that when mentioning Richard's claim, too.

Also thanks TheLonging for compiling Rich's posts, but I believe it was Fugi who did it first. Could be nothing; seems odd.

Not loving this post.

Could you (or someone else) please define waffling? I looked on the wiki and there was nothing.

[pman5595]

Mod: malpascp is now eligible for a prod.

While I'm still very suspicious of the scummy actions of TheLonging and RichardGHP, I still think there is the possibility that they are just newbietown, so I'm gonna keep my vote on malpascp for now.

[pman5595]

wow. never going on another sleepover because missing 5 pages isn't fun.

Unvote: TheLonging

for now. gonna reread and then make a decision

Make a decision as to what, exactly?

You seem to be committing to lynching either of them (with the vote on malcasp handily holding your vote), but not willing to commit -yet-. Like you don't care which of the two go down (which precludes you having to make a solid case for voting either), as if you'd rather wait for the town to decide and What I meant by that statement is that I was going to read the 5 pages that I missed, and then redecide my suspicions, since they obviously wouldn't remain exactly the same after missing 5 pages. Basically, the "decision" I was going to make was not whether to lynch TheLonging or RichardGHP, but who was in my suspicions now.

[pman5595]

EBWOP: I hate BBCode tags

wow. never going on another sleepover because missing 5 pages isn't fun.

Unvote: TheLonging

for now. gonna reread and then make a decision

Make a decision as to what, exactly?

You seem to be committing to lynching either of them (with the vote on malcasp handily holding your vote), but not willing to commit -yet-. Like you don't care which of the two go down (which precludes you having to make a solid case for voting either), as if you'd rather wait for the town to decide and then join in.

What I meant by that statement is that I was going to read the 5 pages that I missed, and then redecide my suspicions, since they obviously wouldn't remain exactly the same after missing 5 pages. Basically, the "decision" I was going to make was not whether to lynch TheLonging or RichardGHP, but who was in my suspicions now.

[pman5595]

Richard seems the lynch for today so far, but the deadline is in three weeks. I think Richard is a good wagon and Ill move vote to him if needed, but maybe some extra talk before ending the day can be useful.

unvote

I dont really have scum reads on anyone else. Scum needs to screw up a bit more.

okay. You're here.

Unvote: malpascp

[pman5595]

also: DizzyIzzy, any particular reason you are voting for Annachie? That vote is still in place from when you voted for CSL in the first post of the RVS

[pman5595]

also: DizzyIzzy, any particular reason you are voting for Annachie? That vote is still in place from when you voted for CSL in the first post of the RVS

Asked and answered Pmann. Why ask again?

I must have missed it the first time. I noticed it with the most recent vote totals. But it has been answered again anyway.

[pman5595]

@pman: Post 88. Why care so much about diddin?

It was more the issue of someone not being in the thread than diddin specifically. I didn't get a pm with the link to the thread, so I was just speculating if that happened to him and that could be the reason.

@pman: Post 318. You said you find the following players pro-town: EtherealCookie, NavyCherub, Parama, Konowa. Could you go more in-depth, and has your list changed at all?

ErethrealCookie: he seems to post with a lot of pro-town thinking--seems like an very good scum hunter. Addressing this thing with Fugitive, I highly believe this is just 2 town players who started with a few legitimate suspicions, but basically turned it into an OMGUS without really realizing it. They should give it up. That adds Fugitive to my list of pro-town. NavyCherub had also been doing a great job of scum hunting, but I haven't seen him post as much anymore. Parama is mostly like NavyCherub (reasoning-wise) but has posted a couple times recently. Konawa seemed like one of the best scum hunters in the group. Very analytical, he always was very pro-town to me. I would also like to add Bogre to that list. He is very much like Konawa, except possibly a little less aggressive

suspicions: TheLonging, RichardGHP (although I suspect those two might just be newbietown), sorasgoof, and diddin.

[pman5595]

oh, and I forgot.

Vote: malpascp

. Come into the thread after being prodded and make one post with no content? STOP. LURKING.

[pman5595]

@pman: Thanks. One last thing: a bit back, you unvoted malp because he was here. Any reason for the sudden change of heart?

When he posted most recently, I though he was going to read and then supply content, but he never did

[pman5595]

TheLonging:

It's good that you're defending yourself

, but I would also like a claim,

as would other people, I believe

. It's seems appropriate at L-1

Moreso than looking eager, I find his post just -weak-. He's being soft on TheLonging, someone he 'finds' suspicious. Secondly, he marks his post with the qualifiers that he would 'also' like a claim, 'as would other people', and that he thinks its 'appropriate'. He's mentioning something he thinks might be protown to bring up, qualifying that his thoughts are valid because other people think so. No. A pro-town player validates his thoughts because he knows his role PM, not what 'other people' think. He's catering to the town, which is very scummy.

-ok, in response to being "soft" on TheLonging:

1.

This is a game. Don't take it too personally, remember to have fun,

respect the other players

and play to win.

-When I said as would other people, what I meant was that was the general time to claim. I have gone over that before.
-"catering to the town" so you would rather I played an anti-town game? that argument didn't make sense for me.

Okay. back to my own question I posed to him, that he seemed deadset on lynching either TL or Richard, based -again- on what the town decided.
His answer:

What I meant by that statement is that I was going to read the 5 pages that I missed, and then redecide my suspicions, since they obviously wouldn't remain exactly the same after missing 5 pages. Basically, the "decision" I was going to make was not whether to lynch TheLonging or RichardGHP, but who was in my suspicions now.

Okay. Looking at his suspicions before, he plays very nice towards TheLonging (thanking him for gathering Richard's posts), despite voting him and asking for a claim.
He marks Richard's noobclaiming as scummy, then later says he thinks Richard might be noobtown. (Along with TL, again playing nice.)

What exactly happened in those 5 pages that made you decide...what? You decided to land with two FOS's on Richard and TL, which is still you suggesting you find them scummy.
Pman suggests he will find something in the pages to change his suspicions, but yet doesn't come out with any more analysis than sorasgoof and diddin are 'slightly' scummy.

Instead, he takes the 'Parama' option, (I don't really like him qualifying that with someone he's stated he's found pro-town, either, could be buddying) he votes for a lurker, then quickly unvotes. Lynching a lurker D1 is pretty useless on giving us information, because replacements are a much better option.
Plus, previously, Pman states he doesn't want a malp lynch. Yet votes him later.

-I FoSed TL and Richard because they were acting scummy. I didn't vote because I thought there was still the possibility that they were just new players.
-I still don't want a malp lynch. I am voting for him until he gets active in the thread or gets replaced. I said I was pulling a "Parama" because that is what Parama has been doing in the thread. That is so people could better interpret the point of the vote.

[Long story short, Pman is contributing little, spreading a bit of fluff around, and pandering to the town.

Unvote,
VOTE: Pman

-I've been trying, every time I come into this thread, my feelings have already been stated. If I had "contributing" more, I probably would have been lynched for bandwagoning already.
-see above^
-Again, excuse me for playing a pro-town game.

[pman5595]

He knows quite well that they aren't new players, because Pman was quite active in the Scorehero mafia game, of which he wasn't even a part of. Technically, based on my knowledge of Pman, he's more "new" than both TheLonging and RichardGHP.

Vote: Pman5595

haveing played one game is still new

[pman5595]

He knows quite well that they aren't new players, because Pman was quite active in the Scorehero mafia game, of which he wasn't even a part of. Technically, based on my knowledge of Pman, he's more "new" than both TheLonging and RichardGHP.

Vote: Pman5595

haveing played one game is still new

sorasgoof's point was that you're calling us new/noob players when you yourself are new, so you shouldn't be talking (I think).

I am new as well, yes, but he said:

He knows quite well that they aren't new players

[pman5595]

where did I lie?

[pman5595]

where did I lie?

You pretended not to know how experienced both TheLonging and Richard are.

I didn't pretend anything. Having played one game does not mean they are experienced. Especially when that game was 3/4 raw newbies.

I know I'm not one to talk, but TL and Richard are not "experienced". They might be good players, but they are not experienced.

[pman5595]

where did I lie?

You pretended not to know how experienced both TheLonging and Richard are.

I didn't pretend anything. Having played one game does not mean they are experienced. Especially when that game was 3/4 raw newbies.

I know I'm not one to talk, but TL and Richard are not "experienced". They might be good players, but they are not experienced.

ex·pe·ri·enced (k-spîr-nst)
adj.
1. Having had experience in an activity or in life in general: a highly experienced traveler.
2. Skilled or knowledgeable as the result of active participation or practice: consulted an experienced

Being that they've had 1)experience in an activity and 2) they are skilled or knowledgeable as the result of active participation or practice, they are experienced.

I just didn't like how you said that there is a "possibility" of them being new players when you know perfectly well how much they've played. And that was in response to an accusation by Bogre, which makes it look like you were trying to make an excuse for why you didn't vote for Richard or TheLonging, despite finding them suspicious.

Okay we've been using different meanings of experienced

Let's compare it to guitar hero. By my meaning, an experienced player would be someone who is on scorehero and plays regularly. By your definition, someone who played one song on medium once is experienced.

[pman5595]

analysis of sorasgoof's scummy posts (summary, then my opinion in parentheses)

193- won't vote for Richard unless someone gives evidence not based on Richard's "noobiness" (he found Richard suspicious earlier in the thread?)

247- states possibility of a Richard/Navy scum team (lolwat? One post ago he said Richard wasn't suspicious)

249- tells Richard no one suspected him of attacking Navy (except he basically just did)

297- Votes Richard (You originally had suspicions of him, then didn't, and now all of a sudden do again?)

407- Unvotes Richard, suggests Richard investigate tonight. Says someone should protect him so mafia doesn't kill him (major speculating about night roles, gives mafia ideas

408- gives mafia idea to roleblock Richard, but says he might not believe Richard if he says he is roleblocked (all this deserves is a *headdesk*)

436- tries to defend previous actions (not really working, imo)

439- see above ^

bunch of posts about role-blocking (basically giving the mafia ideas and somewhat noob-claiming)

bunch of posts where he tries to defend the giving mafia ideas and noob-claiming (not working imo)

514- jumps onto my wagon (I realize that others might not find this scummy, but this is my reasoning: I know I am town, so therefore to me, sorasgoof might be scum trying to jump on a town wagon early [I understand that this argument wouldn't work for others to use because it isn't confirmed for them that I am town]) <-- I hope you understand what I am trying to convey there, I realize it is complicated.

In conclusion,

Vote: sorasgoof

.

scummy actions, contradictions everywhere, defending himself by placing suspicions on others, everything else in the top of my post. Yeah.

[pman5595]

okay honestly guys, the arguments of other people before me convinced me that sorasgoof was scum. But I also knew that if I just voted for sorasgoof with no independent reasoning, you guys would be calling me out even more than you are now. So I apologize if it seems like tunneling.

[pman5595]

mod: vote totals please

Anyway, you guys are all unlucky. I get back to school in February.

well we get off school in June, so take that Southern hemisphere

[pman5595]

I think a few of the people that voted for me are mafia, including Pman, and possibly Parama, EtheralCookie, and diddin.

Ok sora, that just seems like trying to deflect suspicion on to others instead of proving yourself innocent.

I think of it like this:

Best Case scenario- you're mafia
Worst case scenario- you're a vanilla townie giving the mafia ideas and distracting us from finding scum

also, kind of random, to everyone: my name isn't capitalized >.> not a big deal, but... just fyi

[pman5595]

EBWOP: why am I always the victim of ninjas?

[pman5595]

EBWOP: That bolded letter in my above post is a lowercase p, just for you.

<3

[pman5595]

Offtopic: Anyone else have MS go down for a few minutes?

same here. It said fatal error. I was scared

[pman5595]

guys, I agree Richard is acting very scummy, but shouldn't we let him try to investigate tonight first? If we don't, we might be lynching a JoAT without giving him a chance to prove it. I say soras today and Richard Tomorrow if we don't believe his claim at that point.

[pman5595]

before we lynch anyone I want to hear from lurkers....been burned FAR TOO MANY TIMES recently from lurkers

speaking of that..

Mod: replace malpascp, PLEASE

he obviously doesn't care about this game at all, he's posted once since the RVS, and with no content.

[pman5595]

If you guys lynch me (seemingly the most likely candidate for today) tonight, would you lynch Richard tomorrow? Pretty much everyone thinks that one of us is scum, so when I'm lynched and flip townie, everyone should go after Richard, right? Based on what you're telling me, that's the logical course of action.

Basically, though I really don't want to be lynched, I'd be willing to die if it would

help the town

.

soras, seriously, you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole. It sounds a lot like you are scum trying to take a town power role down with you. If you were town, you wouldn't target a specific person that the town should lynch tomorrow (much less a claimed JOAT), you would let the town make the best decision at that point in time.

And in response to your accusation that I voted you without evidence, then everyone would have. It is true that I was not able to come up with much evidence of my own, but that was because everyone had already pointed out so many of your scummy actions. Obviously I'm not going to withhold my vote simply because all of the reasons you were acting scummy had already been taken.

[pman5595]

Oh, and what are these "so many scummy actions?" I'd like to hear it from you, in your own words. I'd also like an explanation of why YOU think each is scummy.

The way you have been talking in the entire thread it seems like you know who is town and who's not, and you are speculating mafia night actions, when no townie knows the mafia roles. I personally believe when you mentioned RB's, it was a scum slip. You tried to defend it later on with "the mafia obviously has to have a role blocker", and that wasn't working for me, I think you know whether the mafia has a role blocker, and you slipped by using what you know to try to act like town.

[pman5595]

SPEC-U-LATING mafia night actions. We've been over this. If I was SPEC-U-LATING, then I did not know (and still don't) ANYONE's role. I don't get what you guys aren't getting.

Also, you think I've been scummy the ENTIRE thread? You were suspicious of me before the reasons you listed occured? Why? Is that why you voted for me during the RVS stage? Because you know I'm a townie?

you may call it speculating, but the way you said it in your first post sounded like you knew.

And no, you have not been scummy the entire thread, you have been scummy recently, ever since your first post about roleblockers. That was more of a miscommunication between my brain and my fingers when I was typing.

[pman5595]

The way you have been talking in the entire thread it seems like you know who is town and who's not.

And no, you have not been scummy the entire thread, you have been scummy recently, ever since your first post about roleblockers. That was more of a miscommunication between my brain and my fingers when I was typing.

So it's okay when

you

make contradictory statements, but when I do, it's scummy? Why is your explanation any more valid than mine?

seriously? I said in my post that it was never what I meant. I meant you have been acting scummy since your first post about role-blockers.

inb4 having to explain it a 3rd time

[pman5595]

The way you have been talking in the entire thread it seems like you know who is town and who's not.

And no, you have not been scummy the entire thread, you have been scummy recently, ever since your first post about roleblockers. That was more of a miscommunication between my brain and my fingers when I was typing.

So it's okay when

you

make contradictory statements, but when I do, it's scummy? Why is your explanation any more valid than mine?

seriously? I said in my post that it was never what I meant. I meant you have been acting scummy since your first post about role-blockers.

And I

meant

that I didn't know the true power of a role-blocker, and no one believed my explanation. I'm asking you why your explanation is more valid. Yes, I'd like a third explanation. You didn't explain yourself the first two times.

with you, the problem was not not knowing what a RB does, it was knowing whether there was one at all.

With me, it was just one of those things where your fingers try to make what you are saying sound better without actually thinking about the words. I never meant literally the entire thread, it was my fingers misinterpreting my thoughts. I don't know how else to explain it.

[pman5595]

post 567 (REALLY? He is pretty much admitting that it is a wagon vote and that he was summarizing everyone else’s points to make it look like he was contributing something
I’m thinking that he is scum who gets on wagons and reposts everyone else’s reasons to appear as if he is contributing.

I explained this in that post and I will re-explain it here. I voted for sorasgoof because I thought he was scum. I had been convinced by the arguments of others.

Answer please: Is there a problem with voting who one thinks is scum?

[pman5595]

post 567 (REALLY? He is pretty much admitting that it is a wagon vote and that he was summarizing everyone else’s points to make it look like he was contributing something
I’m thinking that he is scum who gets on wagons and reposts everyone else’s reasons to appear as if he is contributing.

I explained this in that post and I will re-explain it here. I voted for sorasgoof because I thought he was scum. I had been convinced by the arguments of others.

Answer please: Is there a problem with voting who one thinks is scum?

No, but there is a problem with trying to appear helpful for the sake of appearing helpful. That is scummy. You could have just quoted other people's posts you agreed with if they said it so well and maybe added a sentence or two of your thoughts and voted. Instead, you provided false information, misinterpreted his posts, and provided very faulty logic overall that sorasgoof easily defended in your vote.

I believe I mentioned this also. Imagine the outbreak if I voted with no individual reasoning. I would be lynched in 2 minutes.

I disagree that it was false information. I possibly misinterpreted his posts. But I do not think my logic was overall faulty.

[pman5595]

Sorry for not posting more often. I've been watching the thread, but my opinion hasn't really changed enough where I believe it's worth a post. :-/

Top

three

two lynch candidates
1. sorasgoof- I still think his behavior is the scummiest. On the off chance he is not scum, I believe his lynch will tell the town enough information to make it worthwhile (mainly about Richard)
2. diddin- his behavior confuses me. He has done absolutely nothing pro-town, so the scummy things he has done show through.

honestly I don't have a third. TheLonging has seemed more and more pro-town lately. His behavior fits his vanilla claim. RichardGHP I have never wanted to lynch today. We need to let him prove himself overnight or see how sorasgoof flips if we lynch him before we should even think about lynching Richard. CCARaven was lurking. He has come back and provided some pretty good content. I do not think he is scum.

[pman5595]

hey pman, you havent mentioned diddin previously..give me an example of diddin's "scummy things".

• Eager unvote of TL after being called out
  
• taking suspicion off of navy and putting it back on richard
  
• has suspicions of richard, but doesn't vote until asked why he isn't, and AFTER richard claimed JOAT
  
• more bad reasoning for Richard
  
• votes sorasgoof for the wrong reasons (noobclaiming)
  
• thinks soras and Richard are both scum (seems very unlikely)
  
• general gut feeling of him bandwagoning, then getting off when suspicion is put on him. Seems overly defensive

I still think soras is scummier, and a diddin lynch we would learn nothing from.

[pman5595]

I agree, Parama, DoS has been acting extremely scummy. The problem with lynching him is that his lynch would give no information. If we lynch sorasgoof, besides him probably being scum, there is a whole ton of information that comes with. Even if DoS is scum, tomorrow we will have a repeat of day 1, next to no information to go on.

[pman5595]

I agree, Parama, DoS has been acting extremely scummy. The problem with lynching him is that his lynch would give no information. If we lynch sorasgoof, besides him probably being scum, there is a whole ton of information that comes with. Even if DoS is scum, tomorrow we will have a repeat of day 1, next to no information to go on.

....why would his lynch give no information?

If we lynched him right now, there would be next to none because he didn't discuss his suspicions enough. If we lynched him in like 5 days, it would give us information, yes.

...what do you think will come of sorasgoof's lynch? Since you are expecting information to come from it, please list A) information gained if he is scum and B) information gathered if he is town.

It's mostly about Richard.
A) I'm more likely to believe Richard's claim and think he is town
B) I'm more likely to think Richard is scum. We could also gather information from the people on his wagon, because it has been a long wagon, with lots of unvoting, etc. I realize that that would bring me to suspicion, but I truly believe soras is scum.

However, DoS's Appeal to emotion almost turned my vote to him. If he does another scummy thing, I probably will vote.

[pman5595]

I thought the Jack could only be PT? I've never heard of a Pro-Mafia Jack.

This post screams "Oh shit I've been caught" to me by the way. Its way too nervous.

unvote vote RichardGHP

Love this post...completely agree with it

If that was really what was going through my mind, do you REALLY think I would've posted it? REALLY?

WIFOM

[pman5595]

I will be rereading the posts and analyzing each of the suspicious people (and see if I catch anything else suspicious) sometime tonight. Expect content on diddin, DoS, and soras for sure, and CCARaven and NavyCherub possibly. Vote change is possible. Have to go now though.

[pman5595]

DragonsofSummer

:
113- joins largest bandwagon at opportune time.
156, 257- ends his defenses of himself by trying to put TheLonging back into the spotlight.
299- "A note to all the players in this game, if you are going to attack me bring some facts, otherwise I will ignore you starting now." They were bringing facts.
394- says he does not need to give reasons for his actions (?)
410- votes sorasgoof with only the reason: "Too many people doing to many scummy things in this game."
827- he knows the number of scum? Tries to cover his tracks in 848.
908- AtE after being called out

Scum Level:

3 out of 4

Information Gained From Lynch:

1 out of 4

(I really don't see much info that would be revealed other than his alignment)

diddin

:
225- No lynch vote
232- backs out when called out on it, noobclaims.
255- deflects suspicion off of Navy and onto Richard
315- votes Richard only after he claims a very pro-town role. Doesn't mention possibility of proving it, could be scum wanting to lynch a JOAT during the day so they don't have to worry about nightkilling them.
489- votes soras with terrible reasoning
963- OMGUS on Nico
977- AtE

Scum Level:

3 out of 4

Information Gained From Lynch:

2 out of 4

- his views on Richard and soras could give us info depending on his flip,

I believe I already did a analysis of soras, so I'll just give you my opinionstats

Sorasgoof

:
Scum Level:

2 out of 4

Information Gained From Lynch:

3 out of 4

- gives us good info on Richard, a key player in this game (Either JOAT or scum)

In conclusion,

Vote: diddin

. Mainly because of his post-claim vote for Richard and his bad-reasoning vote on sorasgoof. his AtE surely didn't help his cause.

I would also be perfectly fine with a DoS lynch.

FoS: DragonsofSummer

[pman5595]

On the contrary, you're in claim-or-die territory at best, claim-and-die at worst. The fact that you can't take the context of this claim demand and work out that the gig is up is mildly amusing, though.

Holy...fine. I'm a roleblocker, I used it on Flareonage last night, but that clearly got nowhere.

Thank you. Now we can lynch you.

Claim: Tracker

. NavyCherub targetted RichardGHP last night. Coupled with the roleblocker claim, the false naming of his target and the fact that Richard's claimed one-shot investigation result is consistent with his being roleblocked...

vote: NavyCherub

Please tell me if I need any other reason than this, because this reason is enough for me.

Vote: NavyCherub

I really don't think Rich is scum, I think Navy blocked him. I believe his Joat claim.

[pman5595]

awesome. Please be scum, Navy

[pman5595]

Odds are highly unlikely Navy targeted Rich, in hindsight.

what?

I don't understand this, explain please

[pman5595]

If Navy really is scum Roleblocker, it'd make no sense to block Richard.

For that to be a viable strategy, it'd be some huge Xanatos Gambit (Navy knew Izzy is, or that there even was, a tracker, so targeted his scum vanilla buddy on the offchance he himself was targeted; or something) that wouldn't even be worth it for scumNavy.

Only reason I'm even speculating about being scumblocker is that Navy claimed townblocker.

In other words, unless Navy flips something besides Scum Roleblocker, a Navy/Richard team doesn't make sense at all.

so you don't trust dizzy's claim?

[pman5595]

I would also like to know what a voyeur is.

the three different kill flavors are, confusing, to say the least.

I believe both richard and izzy at this point.

don't know what to go on today.

I like 5 better than 4, so here is a fifth line of text.

[pman5595]

I would also like to know what a voyeur is.

the three different kill flavors are, confusing, to say the least.

I believe both richard and izzy at this point.

don't know what to go on today.

I like 5 better than 4, so here is a fifth line of text.

[pman5595]

The Voyeur is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (but not who did it).

oh so like a watcher. thanks.

[pman5595]

well. Just got prodded. I've been reading the thread, but just not posting >.> I'm still active for everyone wondering.

*spends 15 minutes trying to find the post from day 1 with bogre's case on me*

*reads case*

This is what I see in that case
• pman asked for thelonging to claim when thelonging was L-1. SCUM!
• pman was not talking mean to thelonging when he was close to being lynched. that means he might be scum
• accuses me of buddying to parama be calling my vote to put pressure on lurkers the parama option (hey it's what parama does). I was not buddying to parama. I was voting a player to make them stop lurking.

so yeah, I don't like the case on me. It includes information but nothing that really means anything. I think that is called waffling. I don't really blame Bogre though. What is more scummy to me is how TheLonging jumped on the rival wagon ( I believe Parama wrote a song about that. I suppose Bogre will think this is buddying lol).

FoS: TheLonging

. Still not quite sure enough to vote.

[pman5595]

Mod- I MIGHT be v/la until sunday afternoon, I don't know what the internet situation where I am going is yet.

[pman5595]

@ckd: I addressed the tunneling issue in 1299.

I really don't know what to think of the Amished/Richard argument that happened. I think I find Richard misguided town and Amished as frustrated town.

This does not mean that I don't find TheLonging scum. I do, and I also think that we will gain a lot of information from it.

By the way, where is pman? He said something about not posting until Sunday afternoon, and it is now Monday evening. I want to hear his thoughts on what has been happening.

I've been here, I haven't had much to add. The Amished/Richard argument seems basically, a distraction. I really don't find thelonging THAT scummy. The only thing that stands out is his willingness to jump on my wagon, the first alternative that came up today. I do not think that is worthy of my vote, much less a hammer. Although, I find it very hard to believe anybody else will come up for a lynch today. If I have to be the one to hammer, I will, if everyone casts their vote and TheLonging is still not lynched.

[pman5595]

CCARaven because he is the one player that both pie and amished voted for.

I don't see that as a very good reason, it could very well be bussing. I personally think Raven is definately not town.

[pman5595]

Vote: CCARaven4

82- says TheLonging is scummy. Doesn't vote yet though

153- reinforces how he thinks TheLonging is scum, but refuses to hammer, because of a VANILLA TOWNIE claim. Town would hammer someone they found scummy if they only claimed vanilla. Scum wouldn't want to hammer because it would bring attention to them. Post is also filled with waffling.

262, admits waffling in previous post, but does it again in this one.

373- votes Richard, AFTER the Joat claim. Also, this post is what makes me think he is the killer. He tries to say someone else is the killer, even though the tell he used as evidence was a scum tell as well as a killer tell

467- says he would have hammer TheLonging if he could go back and have another chance. (of course he would, he got called out on it and is trying to take suspicion off of himself.) Votes TheLonging, cites "so much good evidence" that he never gave. This is the extent of his suspicions about TheLonging:

TheLonging is getting pretty jumpy after Konowa voted for him, giving some thoughts on the game about RVS, and then voting for Konowa. I personally don't think it's enough to act on, but it's worth looking at for later days.

That doesn;t seem like "so much food evidence" to me.

813- still doesn't believe Richard's Joat claim, even though there is no reason to doubt it. This is him distracting attention away from himself. Also tries to get "The Real Joat" to claim. This seems like trying to find a nk target, if Richard wasn't really the joat.

816- says Richard should have a chance to prove himself, but keeps his vote on him. This could be him not wanting to sound overly focused on Rich, but him wanting to try to lynch a joat.

845- unvotes Richard. Again, he gets called out on something, and he tries to fix it, getting suspicion off of him. VERY scummy.

870- top 3 scum list has two people he hasn't even mentioned before. I think this is him going with the flow, saying he is suspicious of whoever everyone else is. Scummy.

873- States that Richard isn't at the top of his list because people have called him out for that case. More appeasing the town.

898- loves the DoS case. Because the town finds DoS suspicious, he has to as well.

1283- Buddies up to Konawa, calling him not only town, but vanilla town, which he has no idea about. Then uses Konawa's list to vote TheLonging. His only reasoning for that was that he thought Amished was town. This also could be the reason that he could have killed Amished the next night, if the slicer is indeed the killer.

1285- puches more suspicion that someone else is the killer. This is him trying to take attention away from himself, I think.

I really believe he is the serial killer, and unless something seriously drastic happens, this is my vote for today.

also, inb4 Bogre votes me again

[pman5595]

467- says he would have hammer TheLonging if he could go back and have another chance. (of course he would, he got called out on it and is trying to take suspicion off of himself.) Votes TheLonging, cites "so much good evidence" that he never gave. This is the extent of his suspicions about TheLonging:

TheLonging is getting pretty jumpy after Konowa voted for him, giving some thoughts on the game about RVS, and then voting for Konowa. I personally don't think it's enough to act on, but it's worth looking at for later days.

That doesn;t seem like "so much food evidence" to me.

this obviously should read:

467- says he would have hammer TheLonging if he could go back and have another chance. (of course he would, he got called out on it and is trying to take suspicion off of himself.) Votes TheLonging, cites "so much good evidence" that he never gave. This is the extent of his suspicions about TheLonging:

TheLonging is getting pretty jumpy after Konowa voted for him, giving some thoughts on the game about RVS, and then voting for Konowa. I personally don't think it's enough to act on, but it's worth looking at for later days.

That doesn't seem like "so much good evidence" to me.

[pman5595]

@ckd: 2 questions:
1. Since when did Doc become a neighbor?

he was just addressing him

[pman5595]

Do you genuinely not know or do you want to see if I know? Either way, I'm not answering this.

you said you metaed me...when i called you on it, you provided some crap about HOW YOU define meta...

so I am trying to see if you lied or not

....do not refuse the answer the question

I explained why I had my title

you said you metaed me to try to understand my title and playstyle

when I inquired what games you metaed (to see if you really did so)

you came back with this bullshit about YOUR definition of meta.

you obviously know what the definition is...you wont answer because you know I have caught you in a lie...please explain, what is THE definition of meta.

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100099

read. Have fun

More killing Raven, less arguing over Richard's meta.

[pman5595]

what does that game have to do with anything?

Richard's first game and only one before this. you can find out his meta there.

[pman5595]

pman, what exactly do you think my current beef is with Richard?

he acted REALLY weirdly at the end of yesterday, and refuses to define his meta.

He seems town to me, though.

[pman5595]

you think he is not cleared as serial killer because the night navy roleblocked him there were not three kills

But still, he has claimed joat and there isn't anything to refute that claim yet. He seems like he is trying to be pro-town, but not fully succeeding.

[pman5595]

Soras, I'll respond to you case after I finish my homework.

[pman5595]

-Said that the RVS was stupid, yet went on to place an RVS vote

Changed my mind. Even without me explaining, how is this a scum tell?

and then BLATANTLY bandwagons on Fugitive, who flipped town.

remember at that point we had basically nothing to go on, I voted him for something, he explained, I unvoted. Typical Day 1

-He was the first (well, he thought he was) one to vote for TheLonging (flipped town). True, I did vote for TheLonging. But that was on Day 3, after TheLonging had begun to really start acting scummy. At the time pman voted for him, I was actually defending TheLonging.

He was the scummiest person at the time of my vote. Again, we don't have a lot to go on day 1

-Eager to get a claim from TheLonging

claims are the norm at L-1

-Very wishy-washy about his suspicions on TheLonging/Richard (sets-up a bandwagon scenario in which he could vote for either and not be considered scummy)

IIRC, I said they are either acting scummy or n00by, and it could be either one. It was the truth.

-In his 33rd post, in his attempt at explaining why he was being soft on TheLonging, he basically quotes a rule saying that we should have fun, and not be to serious. Seriously? Come on. You can be aggressive and still be within the boundaries of the game. Look at Parama, Pie, and others who fit that bill. Are they aggressive? Yes. Are they breaking rules? No.

since when has being respectful scummy? I don't understand. Also on that note, ckd, I think you have been crossing the line a couple of times with Richard, respect-wise

I'm getting this huge vibe from this post that you knew TheLonging was town, and you unvoted because of it. Also, the wagon on TheLonging had started to die down by this time, so I'm guessing you felt the need to jump off, too.

I should have kept my vote on him if his scumminess in my eyes decreased? He got less scummy, I unvoted him. Not a scum tell.

-That whole "TheLonging/Richard are new players/I'm not going to commit" scenario I originally voted for him for.

explained above

At this point, I'd like to take some time to address his 39th post. This post is FULL of BS, mostly aimed at me. Note: This is not an OMGUS at all. If he had done this on anyone else, I would've thought it was suspicious, not just because it was me.

Point 1:

-His first point is SO HYPOCRITICAL I can't even believe it. He says that I won't vote for Richard because I was reluctant to vote because of Richard's noobiness. SERIOUSLY? Like you'd been doing the whole time to that point? What happened to this:

-I FoSed TL and Richard because they were acting scummy. I didn't vote because I thought there was still the possibility that they were just new players.

I just can't believe how you called me out for this when YOU did it yourself.

you said that you wouldn't vote richard unless someone gave you evidence that couldn't be based off of noobiness. The point I was trying to make was that YOU found Richard scummy earlier and I was wondering what happened to that, not that it was scummy you weren't voting richard. Misinterpretation.

Point 2:

COMPLETELY misconstrues my meaning. Absolutely scummy in my eyes. I never said I didn't find Richard scummy.

you said you were reluctant to vote him because of the possibility of newbiness. I thought that meant you thought he wasn't scummy. I possibly could have misinterpreted.

Points 3-4:

Another horrid paraphrase/false information. I said no one suspected Richard of attacking Navy until he told us he wasn't, but pman just couldn't leave it at that. He had to turn it into something scummy.

in 247, you stated that you thought richard and navy could be distancing mafia. in 249, you told Richard that no one suspects him of distancing with navy. That was the contradiction that I was noting. as for your vote for Richard, I have already said I might have misinterpreted your (non) loss of suspicion of Richard.

Points 5-10:

All almost exactly the same thing. Saying that I was giving the mafia ideas, etc. Completely illogical, considering I would have waited until night to give the mafia any sort of idea.

that was WIFOM, I'm not gonna argue it because that would get even more WIFOMy.

Last point:

Jumps on my bandwagon, almost an OMGUS (I had voted for him not too long before).

an OMGUS, with all of that reasoning?

lolNO

Let me get back on track, here.

-Constant attention on Malpascp (frustrated that your mafia buddy isn't participating?)

no, frustrated that a player isn't participating.

-His 49th post- No, I think YOU know who's mafia/roleblocker/etc. Says that I've been scummy the ENTIRE thread (later goes on to say I've only been scummy recently).

Have explained this multiple times

-54th post- Imagine the outbreak if you had voted with no reasoning? Oh, like how you did with me? I'm surprised there WASN'T an outbreak.

I had reasoning for you.

-Takes a two day break (convenient- suspicion had started to form on him. He needed to sink back into the shadows)

had RL things going on. not even a tell, or worth reposting, or me responding to.

-States suspicion of diddin (ANOTHER townie)

because we knew his role and he wasn't acting scummy, that's why we lynched him, right.

States suspicion of DoS (ANOTHER townie)

see above

-Votes Diddin (townie)

see above two

-Oh, too many votes on townies. He had to throw a mafia vote in there. (NavyCherub) Goes on to say "Please be scum, Navy." Come on. You knew already.

oh my god. I voted for mafia! SCUMTELL! also, see above 3

What brought him back into my view was his eagerness to jump on CCARaven at the beginning of Day 4. That was the last straw, honestly.

uhh, what? I did an ISO, I found him very suspicious. You haven't even commented on my case or Raven's scumminess. I fail to see how that could be scummy in any way.

IN CONCLUSION

Hey, that basically was an ISO read. I hope you've read this far. I'm about 99 percent positive that you're either mafia or the SK. And you know what? It doesn't really matter. You've played an absolutely scummy game, and you've managed to stay under the radar until this point. Not anymore.

Vote: pman5595

[/quote]
No, I haven't been under the radar. It's just that all except two people, you and bogre (speaking of which, would love to hear from him) have evaluated me and not found me scummy.

[pman5595]

I would have hammered, because in reality, I shouldn't have ever felt that him claiming VT is worthwhile at all, because anyone would claim VT in that situation. I still believe that if you think someone's scummy and they claim VT that it shouldn't change anything at all, but I hadn't come to that conclusion at that point.

Now, this might be true, but I don't think so. I think you didn't want to hammer then, to keep yourself out of the spotlight, and now you are semi-noobclaiming to try to get out of it. You didn't hammer. You are not making yourself less scummy by trying to say "oh I was wrong, I'm so sorry, I would totally go back if I could"

I've spent so much time trying to defend myself that I'm not sure who I think is scum. I'm interested to see what comes out of the pman/sorasgoof banter, I think that one of these two are scum. soras made a good first argument, but after reading pman's counter, I find myself needing more from soras. I would like to hear what soras thinks of pman's case on me, more than just that he was 'jumping on me', because he did a true iso read and put in more work than just randomly choosing a target.

actually, I disagree. I do not think of soras as scum. It is true that I thought he was scum on day 1, but now that there is more information, I get a gut read of misguided town.

Although if one of us is scum, it would DEFINITELY be him

[pman5595]

Even if you aren't, you are still playing anti-town

. You lurk, tunnel and wish-wash vote in combination with your lurking. Can we please lynch him now?

That's fine if you think he's scum (I, for one, do not), but don't you think that this late in the game we should really try not to lynch a townie? I'd rather have an anti-town playing townie alive than a mafioso.

Anyway, this game is coming to a stand still. I do think that we need to come together for a lynch, but how do we do that if WE DON'T AGREE?

no comment on my counter case? are you coming to your senses and seeing I'm not scum?

Also, any reasons for your town read on CCARaven?

[pman5595]

I completely agree with your logic, but it doesn't have to be pman that we lynch, it can be any of us. If I get lynched now, and I flip town, then you're clear and pman should be the next lynch, and if I flip scum, then you're the next lynch and pman's town. Same if you get lynched for me and pman. It doesn't matter who gets lynched at this point, as long as it's one out of us three, and I'm okay with it being me because if I can give my 'life' to lynch scum (pman), it'll help the town and that's good.

Lets go over this.

You get lynched. You flip scum. I am either scum or town. Soras is either scum or town.
You get lynched. You flip town. I am either scum or town. Soras is either scum or town
Soras gets lynched. He flips scum. I am either scum or town. You are either scum or town.
Soras gets lynched. He flips town. I am either scum or town. You are either scum or town.
I get lynched. I flip scum. You are either scum or town. Soras is either scum or town.
I get lynched. I flip scum. You are either scum or town. Soras is either scum or town.

[pman5595]

All of this is hypothetical.

I get lynched. I flip scum. You are town, soras is scum.

I could be scum bussing. Soras could be misguided town

I get lynched. I flip town. You are scum, soras is town.

I could be misguided town. Soras could be bussing.

Soras gets lynched. He flips scum. I am scum, you are town.

You could be town being defended by scum. I could be scum bussing.

Soras gets lynched. He flips town. I am town, you are scum.

You could be scum soras misguidingly defended. I could be misguided town.

You get lynched. You flip scum. Both soras and I are town.

Both of you could be bussing.

You get lynched. You flip town. Both soras and I are scum.

you could both be misguided town.

The point I am trying to make here, is that I am voting Raven because I think he is scummy. No matter what his flip, it doesn't make someone either town or scum. There is such a thing as bussing, and there is such a thing as town thinking another townie is scum because, guess what. THEY DON'T KNOW WHO IS SCUM OR TOWN.

[pman5595]

not game related: anyone else on scorehero having trouble getting on right now?

*Raises hand*

Game Related: MOVE FASTER! POST MORE! KILL RAVEN MORE! GOGOGO

[pman5595]

Game Related: MOVE FASTER! POST MORE! KILL RAVEN MORE! GOGOGO

You seem to be very eager. Too eager. If Raven is lynched and he flips townie, I'd say you're the lynch for tomorrow.

seriously? You need to understand when things are jokes.

[pman5595]

Game Related: MOVE FASTER! POST MORE! KILL RAVEN MORE! GOGOGO

You seem to be very eager. Too eager. If Raven is lynched and he flips townie, I'd say you're the lynch for tomorrow.

seriously? You need to understand when things are jokes.

I'm not laughing.

then you obviously have no sense of humor.

[pman5595]

unless you make it very clear in that specific post that it is a joke (i.e. using an smiley).

I guess caps lock and "GOGOGO" make it serious then. >.>

[pman5595]

OK, I see.

Still, keep the jokes to a minimum. We're trying to play a serious game.

understood

[pman5595]

I'm with soras, I think pman is scum, but I don't have any new information to back it up, but I'm still gonna vote him.

vote: pman5595

If it looks like a OMGUS, and sounds like and OMGUS, then it IS an OMGUS

Seriously, this is just trying to distract attention away from the case on him

Link to my case on Raven

[pman5595]

Do whatever you guys feel is necessary. I've made my case, one I steadfastly believe in, so I'm just going to go finish my homework and play

Halo 3

Modern Warfare 2.

yeah this. I highly believe CCA is scum, and nothing has come yet to change it. If I don't post for the next few days, I'm not gone, I just don't anticipate having anything to say.

[pman5595]

I agree.

but that doesn't change my vote :P

[pman5595]

Just from reading the past few pages, I like the idea that soras and raven put forth...Them being willing to lynch themselves to prove a point seems very protown

not necessarily. It is all WIFOM. One cannot really determine whether or not they are scum or not from this statement, likewise for me.

but pman doesn't support their logical point...its definitely scummy because he is becoming very defensive that he's automatically scum if sora or raven flip town

No person is EVER automatically scum or town based on the flip of another person.

Town does not know whom the scum are. If Raven flips town, it does not make me automatically scum, because I do not know whom is and and is not scum. I go based off of scummy actions.

Likewise, scum can bus. If Raven flips scum, it does not make me automatically town, as I hypothetically could have been bussing,

...town's #1 priority should be to lynch scum (sora and raven), not to stay alive (pman)

I really think that that is a null tell. Scum and town both obviously want to stay alive, for a similar reason–to beat the other side.

[pman5595]

EBWOP: Richard and Dizzy, play nice. The last thing town needs is confirmed town calling each other names and distracting from the scumhunting

[pman5595]

Likewise, scum can bus. If Raven flips scum, it does not make me automatically town, as I hypothetically could have been bussing,

You've been saying things like this for a few days now. Are you trying to tell us that there are two mafia left? Why would you even bring this up? Do YOU think there are two mafia members left?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I am using it as an example as why a scum flip does not automatically remove the players on the wagon from suspicion.

to answer your questions: no, I wasn't referring to that, and I have no idea.

[pman5595]

Likewise, scum can bus. If Raven flips scum, it does not make me automatically town, as I hypothetically could have been bussing,

You've been saying things like this for a few days now. Are you trying to tell us that there are two mafia left? Why would you even bring this up? Do YOU think there are two mafia members left?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I am using it as an example as why a scum flip does not automatically remove the players on the wagon from suspicion.

to answer your questions: no, I wasn't referring to that, and I have no idea.

But this late in the game, do you think there are two mafia members left? That's the vibe I'm getting from you. You say you have no idea, but I'm really not so sure.

What vibe? Every time I've mentioned bussing, it was a hypothetical example. I don't know how many scum members are left, and I'm not going to make a random guess to satisfy your question.

[pman5595]

Ok...I think Soras will flip town if lynched...he seems innocent to me and only had one scummy argument (roleblocker speculating or whatever...)...if he's lynched and flips town, I don't know that Raven is automatically town and Pman is automatically scum, mostly because of the SK wrench...I think he should be left out of this

I agree

plus, if he flips town/SK, that does not automatically make Soras/Raven scum as they could be misguided town

I agree

...Again, soras and raven seem willing to die for town, while Pman is resisting death which isn't helping town at all

I disagree. I have stated it before, self preservation is a null tell. Also, could you bring up the posts you have been getting this feeling from?

Raven is one that could show us everything if lynched...if town, I think it confirms soras as town and pman as either SK or scum...if SK, I still think soras in town and pman is scum (though if pman, hypothetically scum, thought Raven was SK, I don't know why he would want to lynch him today...)...If Raven flipped scum, I don't know what that makes soras, but it would make pman town almost for sure...

I don't like to get angry, but I could not disagree more. If he flips town, it doesn't confirm ANYTHING! You said earlier in this post that if I flipped town or SK, that Raven and soras could be misguided town. If Raven flips town, the same circumstance applies! If Raven flips scum, it still doesn't confirm ANYTHING. It does NOT make me town for sure. Because again, hypothetically I could be bussing. I wish I didn't have to explain this in every post I make.

[pman5595]

I'm bored so here are votals.

3 - CCARaven4

(pman5595, ready2rock, RichardGHP)

3 - pman5595

(sorasgoof, CCARaven4, MrCrowley)

2 - McCrowley

(Konowa, curiouskarmadog)

1 - sorasgoof

(DocPotter)

1 - Not voting

(DizzyIzzyB13)

[pman5595]

EBWOP: MrCrowley, not McCrowley

[pman5595]

I would prefer a Raven lynch over a MrCrowley lynch, personally. I feel the way he is seemingly purposely acting scummy in order to be lynched doesn't feel scummy to me. I am much more sure about Raven. that being said, I would switch to MrCrowley if the rest of town comes to that consensus. I want to hear more opinions from sorasgoof, Richard and Konawa, as well as R2R's results from his look at Konawa's case.

Votals for reference:

4 - CCARaven4

(pman5595, ready2rock, RichardGHP, MrCrowley)

4 - MrCrowley

(Konowa, curiouskarmadog, DocPotter, DizzyIzzyB13)

2 - pman5595

(sorasgoof, CCARaven4)

[pman5595]

bah bah bah.

fuck whomever the slicer is.

[pman5595]

would anyone have believed a cop claim from me? I tried breadcrumbing.

I would have investigated Richard N1, Soras N2, and Amished N3