The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[chamber]

Well, we talked about this fairly extensively yesterday, but there was a competing wagon on him when scum was being lynched (dramonic, iirc) and he was RB'd on a night there was a strangulation.

Do you think it is likely he is scum, and if so please explain why because I don't really see it.

If hes town that means you and llama are the SK and Mafia. This likely means the sk and mafia both had a half doc, and the town had no doctor at all, this troubles me.

[VP Baltar]

The only way I'd believe it's not you chamber is if the scum had some weird reason for trying to bus Sajin over their partner at that time and Llama is the strangler. I can see the latter, but I have a hard time coming up with a reason for the former.

You may as well just admit if you're scum because the town is pretty much screwed at this point anyhow.

[VP Baltar]

Also, it's been proven in thread that I can't be the SK and I had a hand in most of the scum lynches, so unless you think I bussed most of my team that is out of the question as well.

[Sajin]

Also, it's been proven in thread that I can't be the SK and I had a hand in most of the scum lynches, so unless you think I bussed most of my team that is out of the question as well.

@VP-No VP. I have to correct you. Again.

I was roleblocked by a dead town roleblocker.
You claimed to be roleblocked by a town random actioner (as far as I can tell)
These 2 things are far different.

So explain to me, from anyone else's point of view but your own, how you are clear from being the SK.

Also you absolutely failed at post 3695.


Targets are not going to be helpful and may be harmful in llama's case. So let's pursue a different line of thought:

How many scum remain in everyone's opinion? 2 mafia? 1 SK, 1 mafia? etc etc.

@Chamber- what happened with your poison thing? If you do not know what happened, what do you think happened?

[LlamaFluff]

Stopping in to say that VPBs restriction for self-targeting is the same as mine. What I DONT get is how chamber and VPB both look like last slit but no one looks like the strangle at this point.

@VPB - The 'doc is alive' arguement you are using on me applies to you too you know.

Also we obviously are not lynching today. We lynch someone non-town wins unless we hit strangle as I stand a 50-50 of protecting the right person (me/other town).

[VP Baltar]

@Sajin-I'm not talking about the RB from Spy. I'm referring to the fact that SC touched me and yet the stranglings did not stop.

@Llama-yeah, it occurred to me later in the day that no lynch is the probably the best bet.

Also, can you answer the same question about restrictions on your doc ability that you asked me. Can you protect yourself? Are there any other restrictions.

[LlamaFluff]

Each night I can target any player, alive or dead, however I can not target the same player on consecutive nights. I can target myself but the consecutive nights thing applies there as well.

[VP Baltar]

Ok cool, please explain your reaction here then:

I protected myself last night.

Wait what? You can do that?

[LlamaFluff]

Ok cool, please explain your reaction here then:

I protected myself last night.

Wait what? You can do that?

Trying to draw targets. If I just said "yes you can target yourself" chances are I dont get targeted since you never laid out limitations. Im just playing a WIFOM game to my disadvantage if I claim I can, if I cant I have the upper hand

[LlamaFluff]

Also if you thought it ment I couldnt self-protect, why didnt you say anything there? Our roles seem to be basically identical in all aspects. Did you at least put anything down there as a 'this is interesting' crumb?

[VP Baltar]

No. I just figured you couldn't. I wouldn't think that our roles needed to be identical. When you reasked me about my role today and then claimed you could self protect. I thought it was weird because I remembered something that implied you couldn't.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote No Lynch

I dont think really putting all cards on the table is the right move yet. Also it should be obvious, but scum shouldnt kill tonight. It lets SK chose the endgame, but scum killing loses them (and town) the game if the kills dont double up.

[Sajin]

Bleh. That is true VP.

@Llama

I would prefer a few questions get answered before any decision is made and I would rather weigh the pros and cons of no lynching in this situation.

You never answered my question nor are you allowing me to get my others asked.

Discussion is the lifeblood of the town and you would be advocating that if you were part of it.

Would it not be better for the scum to kill the SK?

Are you insinuating the SK is kill immune?

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama

I would prefer a few questions get answered before any decision is made and I would rather weigh the pros and cons of no lynching in this situation.

You never answered my question nor are you allowing me to get my others asked.

Discussion is the lifeblood of the town and you would be advocating that if you were part of it.

Would it not be better for the scum to kill the SK?

Are you insinuating the SK is kill immune?

Its one scum, one SK. How kills are going down and how the game is still in progress tells us that much. Also yes, with a vig and scum im making a safe assumption that we have a NK immune SK. Therefore also safer for scum not to kill

If you dont see why no lynchins wins out here I will explain it to you, but our chances are dangerously low already to be perfectly frank. I just see relying on good lynch, stopped kill, good lynch as not good (especially low given a theory but will refrain for now).

Anyways, if we are no lynching, and scum isnt going to kill, SK crafts the endgame, and I want to give them as little information as possible. So yes im advocating just shutting down the day.

[chamber]

@Llama

I would prefer a few questions get answered before any decision is made and I would rather weigh the pros and cons of no lynching in this situation.

You never answered my question nor are you allowing me to get my others asked.

Discussion is the lifeblood of the town and you would be advocating that if you were part of it.

Would it not be better for the scum to kill the SK?

Are you insinuating the SK is kill immune?

Its one scum, one SK. How kills are going down and how the game is still in progress tells us that much. Also yes, with a vig and scum im making a safe assumption that we have a NK immune SK. Therefore also safer for scum not to kill

If you dont see why no lynchins wins out here I will explain it to you, but our chances are dangerously low already to be perfectly frank. I just see relying on good lynch, stopped kill, good lynch as not good (especially low given a theory but will refrain for now).

Anyways, if we are no lynching, and scum isnt going to kill, SK crafts the endgame, and I want to give them as little information as possible. So yes im advocating just shutting down the day.

If the sk is NK Immune then the towns already lost, I'd rather assume otherwise. Please give me a list of your targets by night.

[LlamaFluff]

You do also realize if town lynches scum the last one NKs town to win unless doctor hits a coinflip.

If we ARE lynching, I outright refuse to claim. If we lynch strangle scum would know if they can kill me or not. VPB already claimed so if we lynch slit strangle wins flat out.

So yeah, we are already borderline screwed. Slit lynch and we lose, strangle lynch and we have a coinflip. I like the x-kill odds to this

[chamber]

I fully intend to vote no lynch, Id just rather the scum know who each other are so they can cross kill properly.

[LlamaFluff]

N1 - VPB
N2 - VPB (which I realzied failed later due to not being able to target twice) effectively no action according to mod
N3 - Plum
N4 - SP
N5 - self
N6 - SP
N7 - self
N8 - sajin

[VP Baltar]

So you didn't understand your role PM initially?

[LlamaFluff]

So you didn't understand your role PM initially?

It was over 70 pages and a month since I replaced into the game. My role does explicitly say that I cant protect twice in a row (it doesnt mention self-protect, I realized that after you claimed it) but I just had forgotten it and assumed that I could. Did the same thing with active/special later.

[VP Baltar]

Well, that is really where my problem is coming from Llama. You've had a lot of stuff that came after I claimed my role that is all a bit revisionist so your role is in tune with mine.

Now, essentially your defense is 'whoops, made some mistakes' or 'I was WIFOMing', which I was willing to let slide earlier because there were definitely people who looked scummier than you, but at this point I don't see how you could legitimately not be scum of some type.

If you're town, what type of scum do you think Sajin is? chamber?

[LlamaFluff]

Well, that is really where my problem is coming from Llama. You've had a lot of stuff that came after I claimed my role that is all a bit revisionist so your role is in tune with mine.

Now, essentially your defense is 'whoops, made some mistakes' or 'I was WIFOMing', which I was willing to let slide earlier because there were definitely people who looked scummier than you, but at this point I don't see how you could legitimately not be scum of some type.

If you're town, what type of scum do you think Sajin is? chamber?

Well, my notes say chamber is slit. Which by process of elimination leaves you as strangle (even though I thought you would be slit given that scum having SK-kill doc makes sense).

You can also see where everything happened

-You claimed self-target abilities, you can see where I asked the mod about me doing so
-You claimed special, I claimed active before I checked
-I asked you about restrictions (what are they not do you have any) and they were the same as mine.

[VP Baltar]

Looking back at the votecounts, I'd say Llama-SK and chamber-scum makes the most sense, but as the days wear on their voting gets more similar.

At least you guys know who you need to cross kill tonight. Keep hope alive!

[LlamaFluff]

Heres what has happened

N2 (or was it three, im dead tired but want to post before I go to sleep and forget) when VPB got 'roleblocked' he did get targeted by Spy, although he did not get roleblocked. He most likely just picked up a one shot something and didnt say what it was. NO ONE else had this happen. We had abilities, we had 'nothing' and we had poision that somehow wore off. No explicit results though. Really it was a brilliant move, he was 'killed' so regarded as basically confirmed town, he just was putting another safety knot in his harness. What better way then to confirm yourself as non-strangle then to claim it would of been impossible when it couldnt be proved! Coupled with him being strangle, it made sense to claim (he may of been given this safeclaim, I wouldnt doubt it given that this is all PRs) protection from his own kill. He either guessed my details correctly in the case of self-protect, or infered the restriction (double target rule). Also it makes less sense for town to have anti-SK protection, then it is to have anti-mafia protection.

Chamber is far more obvious. N6 no one died from slit. D7 there was no weather. D7 chamber claimed to of submitted an action. Chamber got RBed submitting the kill.

Now we have an inherant problem. SK likely has figured out scum. So if we no lynch, I dont think we can really win this. Its POSSIBLE, but honestly I doubt it. It would require a block of the SK kill by who I think the SK is, and then hitting a 50-50 protect by me the following night.

Anyways, here is a possibility if people agree that im town, and that VPB is SK. Lynch VPB, my thoughts havent changed since daybreak, so im going to outright say that I may of lied about my target last night. Who knows, maybe I threw away my action predicting this would occur, or saved chamber from poision. I could be unrestricted tonight though for killing, and if I get my protect right, town can win.

So I want mostly Sajin to weigh in since he is most likely town here.

Do we assume that I am town and take a crack at this, or do we no lynch and hope SK has a bad read?

[chamber]

Heres what has happened

N2 (or was it three, im dead tired but want to post before I go to sleep and forget) when VPB got 'roleblocked' he did get targeted by Spy, although he did not get roleblocked. He most likely just picked up a one shot something and didnt say what it was. NO ONE else had this happen. We had abilities, we had 'nothing' and we had poision that somehow wore off. No explicit results though. Really it was a brilliant move, he was 'killed' so regarded as basically confirmed town, he just was putting another safety knot in his harness. What better way then to confirm yourself as non-strangle then to claim it would of been impossible when it couldnt be proved! Coupled with him being strangle, it made sense to claim (he may of been given this safeclaim, I wouldnt doubt it given that this is all PRs) protection from his own kill. He either guessed my details correctly in the case of self-protect, or infered the restriction (double target rule). Also it makes less sense for town to have anti-SK protection, then it is to have anti-mafia protection.

Chamber is far more obvious. N6 no one died from slit. D7 there was no weather. D7 chamber claimed to of submitted an action. Chamber got RBed submitting the kill.

Now we have an inherant problem. SK likely has figured out scum. So if we no lynch, I dont think we can really win this. Its POSSIBLE, but honestly I doubt it. It would require a block of the SK kill by who I think the SK is, and then hitting a 50-50 protect by me the following night.

Anyways, here is a possibility if people agree that im town, and that VPB is SK. Lynch VPB, my thoughts havent changed since daybreak, so im going to outright say that I may of lied about my target last night. Who knows, maybe I threw away my action predicting this would occur, or saved chamber from poision. I could be unrestricted tonight though for killing, and if I get my protect right, town can win.

So I want mostly Sajin to weigh in since he is most likely town here.

Do we assume that I am town and take a crack at this, or do we no lynch and hope SK has a bad read?

This post confuses me. 1 If you are town then no townies trust it(i.e. me) 2 don't we want the sk to hit mafia tonight? (and vise versa?) I think its the only way we win.