Flash Mafia: You won!

[Porochaz]

rofl answer my question.

[crypto]

Em crypto are you in the right game here or are you still drunk from the night before?

Do not attribute your own embarrassing faults to me, whelp.

Its a shame for elvis because both the players she is saying are innocent are suddenly playing terribly.

I'm really amused by how your judgment of my play is directly affected by where my vote is. "Suddenly"? So when I was sitting on my SB soapbox I was doing just fine? That's cute, because you clearly don't give a flying fuck about it. You had little/no reason to think I was playing any better than I am now. But when I vote for you, oh, man. Shit just got real. Your change of opinion with regard to the quality of my play sheds light on your interests:

You're not scum-hunting, you're just bitching out whoever expresses suspicion of you. And, yes, you're sitting very lazily on your vote for AGOTI, as I was sitting lazily on my vote for SB.

cryptos snow bunny iso tomorrow.

The hell with that. You will not refuse my demand and then request the same thing from me.

What happened from this post last page?

You are sitting on your pathetic FOSes. Sitting on your pathetic FOSes while flaunting the idiotic bad-ass faux pro-town badge gets you a vote.

---

How bout a

reason

My biggest reason is how you condemned the Mufasa wagon at the beginning of day 1. I found and continue to find that very scummy. That said, over the past few days your stubbornness is improving my read on you. I'm loath to follow rofl's vote for you.

Do you agree with AGOTI that I'm suspicious because nobody jumped onto my bandwagon?

No. That's absurd, and said absurdity is disturbingly unlike iamausername. The trouble I have with just dumping a scum read on AGOTI is that he's playing so suicidally. I think iamausername is pretty damn good at faking pro-town play when he's scum, so this jars my read on him.

Do you think he's scum with Bunny?

I

just said

I don't like formulating scum teams when I don't need to. I don't give a damn who's scum with who. I give a damn who's scum.

It was partly a frustration vote and partly a reaction test. I think it's great how Poro shits out some ridiculous bloodthirsty attack, then lurks, then pops back in when someone fires back just a little.

[populartajo]

Still kinda drnk but HAPPY NEW YEAR EVYERONE!

@Snowwhite: okay, so basically your case reduces to he took a million of million ages to hammer frost so that he could draw the cop. For starters, why are you blaming this failure only on me? Can you come back to the situation and find out who else could have hammered?

Check out these additional reasons that explain this:

a)Go check back to the situation again and find out that there were people that had finished talking and asking questions, scumhunting, faking to do it, etc etc.

b)Im pretty sure that there was no apparent benefit of hammering ray after 2-3 pages of discussion. Ray was going to be lynched anyways and a hypothetical cop would have claimed as soon as ray hit l-1, kinda like elvis here. So your theory fails here. In the other hand, having at least one or two pages of reactions to the l-1 would probably give more information, cough, agoti, cough.

c)yeah, the thesis reason is still here, at that time and for the following weeks, im going to be able to check the thread only at night.

regarding your wiki case, I dont read wikis or find them important, so no fake scmhunting or bs like that. check my wiki, btw, it has nothing. My questions was to find out your experience and capabilities of doing what you did as scum. I can conclude then that your attacks are wrong but prob not scummy, as they feel genuine.

[populartajo]

ok, with that out of my hcest, time to sort things in this place.

If you think agoti is town, please provide a raeson to explain why so, if not I expect you a vote for him in your following post.

For reference, I provided a case, so check my iso for more.

[populartajo]

bunny can I have a scumlist in your following post?

[crypto]

Mikeburnfire, my other beefs with you are (a) posts 585–589 and (b) Spyre's announcement that posts 585–589 were "BERRY INTERESTINGS" shortly before his death.

---

Snow_Bunny Case

• Contrived syntax.
  
• Passive-aggressive faux scum hunting.
  
• OMGUSing me.
  
• Whining pettily about PR directing . . .
  
• . . . and all the other garbage that constituted iso. 14.
  
• Lurking, often only coming out of her lurker shell when strongly suspected.
  
• Sitting on the fence between RayFrost and a girl on the internet.
  
• Playing "I'll answer your question if you answer my question first" games when the questions are unrelated (IIRC).
  
• Iso. 19 is fantastic! Lo, the 20/20 hindsight, in which she declares Ray was the obvious lynch on day 1—wait a sec, wasn't she rolling the dice between him and AGOTI?
  
• While I'm at it, iso. 20 contains a delicious underhanded OMGUS directed at me.
  
• Egregious amount of fluff. Seems like every other post is a mini trash heap of half-hashed analysis.

  I still find SW and Poroz town. And, on light of that new thought, I can't say much on Tajo. There's something I don't like about his posts. Can't say exactly what it is. As someone else said, there's certainly a connection between him and AGOTI, but I would prefer first an AGOTI's flip in order to build a case upon that.

• This quote (from iso. 31) sings scum buddies with either populartajo or Snow White and Porochaz or AGOTI. Can't even tell which is most likely. It's all profoundly scummy in my opinion, like she's crawling on cracked ice. Back to the start of iso. 31, I don't like how she talks about how she's been all over AGOTI, then takes a feeble shot at rofl and elvis. She calls me town despite slamming
  OMGUS
  a scum read on me four posts up. Conclusion: rofl and elvis are the scum team (I like how she
  knows
  the team consists of three players, not four), but Tajo is also scummy. Go, go, spread that suspicion!

[crypto]

Also, I reread Tajo's iso. and I'm now officially on the figurative Tajo bandwagon. But I don't think he's buddies with AGOTI. I'll have to re-reread his iso. tomorrow.

[crypto]

By the way, guys, this—

What else do I need to say? I gave my thoughts regarding the cop issue. Also, just to add something, Crypto has like the worst read capabilities so far. Just pointing that out.

—is either a scum slip or (less likely) a statement by a townie who failed miserably to articulate with remote clarity her transition from a rock-solid scum read on me to a town read on me.

"Crypto has like the worst read capabilities so far." That does not apply to scum. As for the impending argument that this is simply an example of imperfect English, don't even go there. It's very clear what SB is saying here. It has nothing to do with the lucidity of her writing. Me having bad read capabilities requires that I be town. You simply don't say that about (potential) scum.

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: Snow_Bunny.

Hop-hop-hop.

[populartajo]

it would truly depend what she thought of you before doing that comment.

I really need that scumlist first before destroying my agoti wagon, though.

now that we are on it, crypto, what are your thoughts of agoti?

[crypto]

it would truly depend what she thought of you before doing that comment.

Doesn't matter. She clearly wasn't

sold

on me being town, so regardless it's out of place.

now that we are on it, crypto, what are your thoughts of agoti?

Null read, effectively. Flip a few posts back. It's somewhere in there.

[mikeburnfire]

My biggest reason is how you condemned the Mufasa wagon at the beginning of day 1. I found and continue to find that very scummy. That said, over the past few days your stubbornness is improving my read on you

Your biggest reason for suspecting me is my first post? The post in which I might have actually curbed the lynch on somebody who turned out to be town and voted somebody who turned out to be scum? Are you serious? What did you want me to do? Just sit back and let Mufasa get lynched? Partake in the Random Voting Phase? Even if you think that's buddying and bussing, how can

this

be the scummiest thing I've done? Also,

stubbornness

? Since when is stubbornness indicative of scum?

Do you think he's scum with Bunny?

I

just said

I don't like formulating scum teams when I don't need to. I don't give a damn who's scum with who. I give a damn who's scum.

Calm down. I was just trying to figure out why you suddenly voted Poro out of the blue. If you don't like to link people then fine, that's your thing, but finding links between possible scummates is a useful scumhunting tool IMO. It's how I dominated Open 7 in a mere 5 pages.

Mikeburnfire, my other beefs with you are (a) posts 585–589 and (b) Spyre's announcement that posts 585–589 were "BERRY INTERESTINGS" shortly before his death.

There have been a lot of bad cases against me this game, but I think this one takes the cake. You asked for a list of player reads even though RayFrost was about to die. The only ones who would benefit from such a thing would be mafia, or maybe a cop. I made my objection known. Even if both scum were in that list you'd still be asking 3 townies to completely open up and expose their thoughts to the scum right before night phase.

If you think agoti is town, please provide a raeson to explain why so, if not I expect you a vote for him in your following post.

For reference, I provided a case, so check my iso for more.

The only "case" I see is your Iso31 (Post 777), which boils down to "Scum must have countered the Raywagon on Day 1", which is a false assumption. What about the final Ray lynch? That consisted of Porochaz, Snow_Bunny, elvis_knits, SpyreX, crypto, and myself. Spyrex is dead town. Elvis has claimed cop with innocent on crypto. Porochaz seems town to me. The only ones left are you and Snow Bunny. Not to mention that *THIS* bandwagon is from Day 2, after RayFrost signed his own death warrant. If there's any wagon that should have a scum on it, it's this one.

Looking back, the only reason I went after AGOTI is because she was against the Ray wagon. But now that I think about it, it's possible for BOTH scum to bus Ray, especially if, as you say, his lynch was inevitable. Considering this, a Bunny-Tajo scumgroup seems much more likely.

I don't like the way Tajo is pushing the AGOTI lynch. At first I thought it was bussing because, much like RayFrost, her lynch looked inevitable. But now the town is divided. ROFL vs me, crypto vs Bunny, Porochaz vs White. So why is he pressuring us into a vote? Yesterday Tajo didn't want to hammer Ray because he wanted more discussion, or so he claims. Today there's a whole lot more going on, but now he's rushing us to vote AGOTI? And on weak reasoning to boot? This is way too inconsistent.

vote: Tajo

Crypto, most of that stuff you listed against Bunny seems weak, but post 820 was pretty terrible, I must admit. I'm thinking Tajo and Bunny are scum together. I know you don't like pairing, but between Tajo's recent post and Snow Bunny asking about a deadline, I think they're both becoming impatient and thirsty for blood.

[crypto]

I don't mean to say pairing as bad in general, but I think it's much harder than individual scum hunting, and it can warp reads on certain players to fit a false theory for elegance's sake.

Crypto, most of that stuff you listed against Bunny seems weak, but post 820 was pretty terrible, I must admit.

I disagree. I think it's one of the strongest cases I've seen this game. In a game with halfway competent players, there usually will not be blow-down-the-doors mega scum tells. Cases usually must be built on either subtle, ongoing, or slightly contradictory items. Of course the case is going to be weak, in a sense, but just saying it's

weak

weak without giving any explanation is lame and ultimately unproductive.

That said, why are you pairing Tajo and SB if SB isn't generally that scummy to you? I would say asking about deadlines is nothing but a null tell, so using that as a building block for the pairing looks inherently flawed.

---

Oh, and that post makes mike the most pro-town player in the game at the moment. Forget second place.

[mikeburnfire]

Of course the case is going to be weak, in a sense, but just saying it's

weak

weak without giving any explanation is lame and ultimately unproductive.

You're right. It's just that OMGUSing, lurking, and sitting on the fence describes pretty much everybody this game. And 'contrived syntax'? I think the only points you made that I agree with as being scummy are

• "Ray was the obvious lynch on day 1"—wait a sec, wasn't she rolling the dice between him and AGOTI?
• Egregious amount of fluff. Seems like every other post is a mini trash heap of half-hashed analysis.

Everything else is suspicious, yes, but not incriminating. I've seen townies do all that too.

That said, why are you pairing Tajo and SB if SB isn't generally that scummy to you? I would say asking about deadlines is nothing but a null tell, so using that as a building block for the pairing looks inherently flawed.

I've had those two on the bottom of my scumlist along with AGOTI ever since this day began. I've been trying to force AGOTI into the scumgroup, but now I'm thinking I was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Interestingly, an Iso of Tajo reveals that he's been going after Snow Bunny since day 1 but not very strongly. He usually mentions her along with ROFL, which is a common scum tactic. When White questions why, he states that it was a gut read. Snow Bunny, on the other hand, just TAKES it, indicating it's just a bus. She calls Tajo 'neutral' several times. Oh, except for this:

As someone else said, there's certainly a connection between him and AGOTI, but I would prefer first an AGOTI's flip in order to build a case upon that.

You can't tell me that this doesn't look like Bunny trying to kill AGOTI first to make Tajo look more innocent.

[crypto]

That is a boatload of stuff I either hadn't noticed or (more likely since I am genius who notices everything) forgot.

Frankly, the part I'm not sure about

is

her wanting to lynch AGOTI instead of Tajo, simply because she'd been pursuing AGOTI all along. But I agree that Tajo's gut-scum-read-on-the-backburner SB read is a common card scum try to play.

SB lynch doesn't look to be happening today. Natch, I don't agree about the strength of my case against her, but my view of scum tells seems contrarian to the majority's views on this site.

Unvote. Vote: populartajo.

Let's see where this sucker goes.

[populartajo]

oh joy, another wallopost directed at me, courtesy of mbf.

The only "case" I see is your Iso31 (Post 777), which boils down to "Scum must have countered the Raywagon on Day 1", which is a false assumption.

I never said scum MUST have countered the raywagon. I think that if there is a wagon in a scum godfather and then there is also a counterwagon with the same amount of votes, then its highly likely that there is at least one scum trying to save the godfather. Tell me why do you disagree.

And more importantly, do you think that everyone who was voting you at that point was town? Really?

. What about the final Ray lynch? That consisted of Porochaz, Snow_Bunny, elvis_knits, SpyreX, crypto, and myself. Spyrex is dead town. Elvis has claimed cop with innocent on crypto. Porochaz seems town to me. The only ones left are you and Snow Bunny.

So what exactly changed between oh guys, elvis is far from confirmed town to this new reasoning, mbf?

Looking back, the only reason I went after AGOTI is because she was against the Ray wagon. But now that I think about it, it's possible for BOTH scum to bus Ray, especially if, as you say, his lynch was inevitable.

Considering that there was some aversion to this lynch and some lurkers at that point, I would say that this IS a less likely assumption than the frost counterwagon.

Yesterday Tajo didn't want to hammer Ray because he wanted more discussion, or so he claims. Today there's a whole lot more going on, but now he's rushing us to vote AGOTI? And on weak reasoning to boot? This is way too inconsistent.

wowowow, hold your horses there. First I think discussion has died here, people are either drunk or pushing individual cases with no much success. Second, yeah, trying to revive the thread and force people take a stance on someone I think is scum is scummy as fuck, go figure. And third, its NOT weak reasoning. We have agoti trying to derail the wagon on day 2 and we have that counterwagon in day 1 which is far the best case based on wagon analysys. Now, if AGOTI were the top contributor or the most protown player on this thread, this would change, but oh yeah, I forgot lurking is also a towntell. Gogogo weak reasoning.

Re: bunny-tajo scumpair. Feel free to speculate what you want, Im not scum and therefore all arguments based on this relationship are bs. I must admit I got distracted with the information frost lynch and the cop claim gave us, since it gave me the strongest read I have on agoti instead of my gutsy bunny read. If you notice, I asked for a scumlist some posts ago.

[crypto]

Im not scum and therefore all arguments based on this relationship are bs

Logic

win

!

[populartajo]

But I agree that Tajo's gut-scum-read-on-the-backburner SB read is a common card scum try to play.

seriously whats so scummy of pushing a scum read based on wagon analysis/lurking/relatiosnhip with flipped scumbag instead of a gutsy scum read based on yeah gut?

[populartajo]

Im not scum and therefore all arguments based on this relationship are bs

Logic

win

!

sup crypto, im pretty sure there was more on that post for your reading pleasure.

[crypto]

English?

[populartajo]

English?

si señor

just realized Im at L-1, so either someone unvote me or dont get in this thread drunk. tia.

and if you want a claim, then, here have some vanilla ice cream for the night.

good night.

[mikeburnfire]

oh joy, another wallopost directed at me, courtesy of mbf.

My post was significantly shorter and less wall-ish. This one is not.

I think that if there is a wagon in a scum godfather and then there is also a counterwagon with the same amount of votes, then its highly likely that there is at least one scum trying to save the godfather. Tell me why do you disagree.

There was only four votes on either of us, not to mention five more votes scattered about. Yeah, I would think that it'd be likely for a scum to be on a counter-wagon, but it's not unheard to try and get a different wagon going, or to stay off both high-profile wagons.

So what exactly changed between oh guys, elvis is far from confirmed town to this new reasoning, mbf?

Just because she's not confirmed doesn't mean I have to actively suspect her. She made a cop claim. I'm willing to believe it at this point in the game.

First I think discussion has died here, people are either drunk or pushing individual cases with no much success.

If people are pushing individual cases, then by definition discussion has not died.

Second, yeah, trying to revive the thread and force people take a stance on someone I think is scum is scummy as fuck, go figure

No, but telling people to place A VOTE and force a lynch through IS scummy as fuck.

third, its NOT weak reasoning. We have agoti trying to derail the wagon on day 2 and we have that counterwagon in day 1 which is far the best case based on wagon analysys.

The former is weak, as scum are likely to bus Ray after his terrible play. The latter suspicious, but nowhere near the best case based on wagon analysis.

Now, if AGOTI were the top contributor or the most protown player on this thread, this would change, but oh yeah, I forgot lurking is also a towntell. Gogogo weak reasoning.

This is so weak. Lurking can come from both town and scum. Scum can contribute a lot or they can be passive about it.

[Porochaz]

Em crypto are you in the right game here or are you still drunk from the night before? Its a shame for elvis because both the players she is saying are innocent are suddenly playing terribly. AGOTI is obviously scum. I really dont understand the vote. Not only have I taken an active stance in the game I am leading the charge against AGOTI as well. More than you have done. What are you doing? Making up shit like SK's when there is absolutely no evidence for it. I dont get it. I dont understand why its even crossed your mind. So really I have to ask you "To Get Off Your Lazy Ass And Do Something For Once". It really is pot calling the kettle black not just for me but to elvis as well.

My response to your case crypto. Just for reference.

Em crypto are you in the right game here or are you still drunk from the night before?

Do not attribute your own embarrassing faults to me, whelp.

Heh, 20 years old, this site is not my life. I like getting drunk and yes, whilst that does lead to the scottish binge drinking culture and the behavour we are desperately trying to stamp out I do manage to post some sense from time to time unlike you who bounces round wagons like a shit ping pong ball and makes absolutely statements about SK's when there are absolutely no NK's to suggest otherwise. I think that vote was less to do with you finding me scum and more to do with me shitting over your retarded suggestion.

Its a shame for elvis because both the players she is saying are innocent are suddenly playing terribly.

I'm really amused by how your judgment of my play is directly affected by where my vote is. "Suddenly"? So when I was sitting on my SB soapbox I was doing just fine? That's cute, because you clearly don't give a flying fuck about it. You had little/no reason to think I was playing any better than I am now.

Maybe because when you were sitting on your SB soapbox, it was making general sense and I was interested in it. I also never said you were town. I just said you weren't playing terribly. However as I said I was paying attention to it, it wasnt like the horrible rofl-mbf case and I was interested to see how it played out. Having said that, you disappeared, SB never came back - my interest waned

But when I vote for you, oh, man. Shit just got real. Your change of opinion with regard to the quality of my play sheds light on your interests:

Yeah and I didnt see the reasons for it beyond you throwing a tantrum.

You're not scum-hunting, you're just bitching out whoever expresses suspicion of you. And, yes, you're sitting very lazily on your vote for AGOTI, as I was sitting lazily on my vote for SB.

Actually no. Im asking questions that keep being ignored.

I

want

rofl to answer the questions I asked a few pages back.
I

want

AGOTI to answer the case against her. My vote is not lazily on her. I am actively pushing it and everytime she posts and ignores it I am making the game aware of it. I already said that I was watching the SW/Tajo interaction with interest. I dont often get angry in mafia games but the one thing that annoys me more than anything is being ignored/having to repeat myself...

cryptos snow bunny iso tomorrow.

The hell with that. You will not refuse my demand and then request the same thing from me.

This you misunderstood. I meant I will answer your snow bunny iso, today now. However Im glad your being so rude about it.

What happened from this post last page?

You are sitting on your pathetic FOSes. Sitting on your pathetic FOSes while flaunting the idiotic bad-ass faux pro-town badge gets you a vote.

I dont have any FoS's I very rarely do. I have a vote which noone has convinced me that A. she doesnt deserve it (ie, going "look at that post, she's town, hur hur" DOES NOT COUNT) or B. that she has done anything in anyway to convince me otherwise. What the hell is the point in me changing my vote to a second wagon when there has been no evidence to the contrary to say my vote is wrong.

The problem Im having is that with everyone Im trying to question are fucking ignoring me. So people are saying Im lurking etc. etc. when I have fucking been here all along. I think I must have posted every single day and not "post later" posts. I went on holiday just before new year thats it. Please check my post history.

So if Im get a little angry by a vote and telling me Im not doing anything forgive me because Ive invested more fucking time into this game than most others Ive been in recently and up until recently I was enjoying it. The fact that rofl and iam are ignoring my posts and now you, the person who has lurked a fair amount is now telling me that Im lurking and only comes in when someone attacks me is not just unfair, it is wrong and extremely hypocritical.

It was partly a frustration vote and partly a reaction test. I think it's great how Poro shits out some ridiculous bloodthirsty attack, then lurks, then pops back in when someone fires back just a little.

Seriously, I am confused. Frustration vote and reaction test is fine, however I havent attacked you for being town or scum, Im angry at you because I think your being grossly unfair. I havent lurked at all this game and I went out of my way to make a clear case against AGOTI which I am trying desperately to get some sort of defence against.

[Porochaz]

Still kinda drnk but HAPPY NEW YEAR EVYERONE!

@Snowwhite: okay, so basically your case reduces to he took a million of million ages to hammer frost so that he could draw the cop. For starters, why are you blaming this failure only on me? Can you come back to the situation and find out who else could have hammered?

Check out these additional reasons that explain this:

a)Go check back to the situation again and find out that there were people that had finished talking and asking questions, scumhunting, faking to do it, etc etc.

b)Im pretty sure that there was no apparent benefit of hammering ray after 2-3 pages of discussion. Ray was going to be lynched anyways and a hypothetical cop would have claimed as soon as ray hit l-1, kinda like elvis here. So your theory fails here. In the other hand, having at least one or two pages of reactions to the l-1 would probably give more information, cough, agoti, cough.

Actually by this stage we were pretty much done. It was either you or crypto who were to hammer and crypto finally did it. Besides didnt we say that the day before and he didnt get lynched?

[Snow White]

Unvote

Let me make this vedry clear that i like the tajo wagon, and RVSP'ing my vote on him later but considering Porochaz's post i think it best if we dont give anyoine the opportunity to just hammer yet.

Reading to be done now.
Talk later.
/Snow White.