Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[Magic Trainer]

So you feel that a random vote based on the fact that it was the person posting above you is better than voting someone because they were, as you believe, "lurking". Assume for this situation that the lurking is a viable reason. In a situation where someone is truly lurking, they are harming the town by not posting, searching for information and scumtells, or trying to hide from suspicion. So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

If you've read my post I said I

felt

like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure. The game itself started only a few hours (I might have this wrong) before but everyone other than Walrus had posted which leads me to believe that there is a possibility of him lurking. I have also said I wanted to hear Walrus's defense before I changed my vote which was why I chose not to change my vote right away. Now that I he posted I know that he wasn't lurking, I prefer to be sure about this things and find more about the current situation instead of changing my mind every few posts. The answer to your question would be a "Yes" However my thougts about Walrus lurking were incorrect and as I just said I wanted to be sure before I changed my vote.

Clarification please!

The question was:

So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

Your answer was:

The answer to your question would be a "Yes"

Is "Yes" your answer to the specified question?

Secondly, I spy contradiction in your Post 81.

First off in reply to me you state:

If you've read my post I said I felt like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure

So if not being 100% sure and feeling something isn't qualified enough for a change from a random vote, then why is your Lastsurvivor vote good enough?

The beginning of your statement on Lastsurvivor goes as:

Reading over this thread again I believe Lastsurviver is our best bet as to who the scum are.

Are you 100% sure? Basically your reasoning against Lastsurvivor is he seems annoyed and irritated and is posting sarcastically (although I agree with the sarcasm not being good.) This once again boils down to just feelings.

I was curious at to if you were scum there could have been a possibility that you were the scum and you just wanted to take your accusation then slap on my vote to make me look guilty. Then you might have thought as you said my defense was good and others would not agree with you so you decided to change your vote and try to lynche someone else.[.quote]

This is just WIFOM (I think I used it in the right context). Kyiv mentioned something about this earlier in regards to Medix, but I think it applies here as well:

Another baseless accusation. This is not something you can either prove or disprove, it's just WIFOM, which is something dangerous especially in Day 1.

Right now I believe Random has a chance to be good, the scum however I don't a clue on hower I do suspect Walrus has a chance of being scum. I want to wait and see his defense before/if I change my vote.

Why do you believe Random has a chance to be good?

Honestly my feelings about Magic Trainer right now sum up as:

Unvote, Vote: Magic Trainer

That's just the way I play, if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them, as I've seen

everyone

else do

every

game I played. This is a newbie game and you can't expect everyon to play exactly like you.

My vote for Lastsuriver ws because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be howvere I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts abotu this game are set in stone, when they're not.

As for thinking Random is good is because my reasoning as to him being the mafia I posted, I believe that's false. If he's not mafia then he would be... town? I also didn't think a scum would make an accusation like that because in the end my experience has shown me that the one who accuses and was wrong happens to die. and a mafia wouldn't want to attract so much attention to themselves and end up dead.

[Magic Trainer]

Oh... what's wrong with my post? I thought everyone would be in the quote, what I wrote is from "That's just the way I play,"

[Lastsurvivor]

So you feel that a random vote based on the fact that it was the person posting above you is better than voting someone because they were, as you believe, "lurking". Assume for this situation that the lurking is a viable reason. In a situation where someone is truly lurking, they are harming the town by not posting, searching for information and scumtells, or trying to hide from suspicion. So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

If you've read my post I said I

felt

like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure. The game itself started only a few hours (I might have this wrong) before but everyone other than Walrus had posted which leads me to believe that there is a possibility of him lurking. I have also said I wanted to hear Walrus's defense before I changed my vote which was why I chose not to change my vote right away. Now that I he posted I know that he wasn't lurking, I prefer to be sure about this things and find more about the current situation instead of changing my mind every few posts. The answer to your question would be a "Yes" However my thougts about Walrus lurking were incorrect and as I just said I wanted to be sure before I changed my vote.

Clarification please!

The question was:

So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

Your answer was:

The answer to your question would be a "Yes"

Is "Yes" your answer to the specified question?

Secondly, I spy contradiction in your Post 81.

First off in reply to me you state:

If you've read my post I said I felt like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure

So if not being 100% sure and feeling something isn't qualified enough for a change from a random vote, then why is your Lastsurvivor vote good enough?

The beginning of your statement on Lastsurvivor goes as:

Reading over this thread again I believe Lastsurviver is our best bet as to who the scum are.

Are you 100% sure? Basically your reasoning against Lastsurvivor is he seems annoyed and irritated and is posting sarcastically (although I agree with the sarcasm not being good.) This once again boils down to just feelings.

I was curious at to if you were scum there could have been a possibility that you were the scum and you just wanted to take your accusation then slap on my vote to make me look guilty. Then you might have thought as you said my defense was good and others would not agree with you so you decided to change your vote and try to lynche someone else.

This is just WIFOM (I think I used it in the right context). Kyiv mentioned something about this earlier in regards to Medix, but I think it applies here as well:

Another baseless accusation. This is not something you can either prove or disprove, it's just WIFOM, which is something dangerous especially in Day 1.

Right now I believe Random has a chance to be good, the scum however I don't a clue on hower I do suspect Walrus has a chance of being scum. I want to wait and see his defense before/if I change my vote.

Why do you believe Random has a chance to be good?

Honestly my feelings about Magic Trainer right now sum up as:

Unvote, Vote: Magic Trainer

That's just the way I play, if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them, as I've seen

everyone

else do

every

game I played. This is a newbie game and you can't expect everyon to play exactly like you.

My vote for Lastsuriver ws because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be howvere I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts abotu this game are set in stone, when they're not.

As for thinking Random is good is because my reasoning as to him being the mafia I posted, I believe that's false. If he's not mafia then he would be... town? I also didn't think a scum would make an accusation like that because in the end my experience has shown me that the one who accuses and was wrong happens to die. and a mafia wouldn't want to attract so much attention to themselves and end up dead.

Irritation can make you "sure enough" to vote? That could get you a FoS maybe, not too sure about a vote though. I'm not quite sure I see the reason that gets you from the FoS zone to the vote zone

[Lastsurvivor]

Oh, and I fixed your quotes. you had a [.quote] box somewhere in there.

[Kyiv]

You needed a second "[/quote]". When you quote multiple people, you need multiple tags, for instance:

Code: Select all

[quote="Mith"][quote="VRK"]Hai[/quote]OMGUS[/quote]

Wtf are you guys doing?

Would look like:

Hai

OMGUS

Wtf are you guys doing?

If you're still having trouble quoting, try simply clicking on the "quote" button, and copy and paste the quotes you need to a notepad and then just put them all together (I use notepad anyways, for longer posts.)

[Kyiv]

Oh yeah, it actually looks like you had a misplaced "[/quote]" tag. My bad.

[kunkstar7]

My vote for Lastsurvivor was because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be however I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts about this game are set in stone, when they're not.

I'm not saying your opinions/thoughts need to be set in stone. Actually that would not be beneficial to the town. What I am pointing out is how your arguments are inconsistent. You started your post saying you didn't want to change a random vote to a vote on walrus because you only

felt

he was lurking, but then you continue the post with a vote on Lastsurvivor based off the

feeling

that he is being irritated? How is that in any way consistent?

That's just the way I play, if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them, as I've seen everyone else do every game I played. This is a newbie game and you can't expect everyone to play exactly like you.

Can you explain this, I'm not understanding this. Why would I expect anyone to play like me?

And you still didn't clarify your answer to the question I posed earlier.

[Kyiv]

@Kyiv: the accusation wasn't that he didn't produce much, the accusation was that he didn't produce anything original.

I'm not so sure about that... He hasn't posted enough for me to think either way.

The accusation that Lastsurvivor responded defensive in his second post of the game seems to be much ado about nothing. There are far better tells around.

The only reason I mentioned it was because there really wasn't any tells at all at the time. Now I think people are starting to grab that and use it as a baseboard for their arguments.

Why

they're doing it remains to be seen, but I think that's worth looking in to.

IMO (in my opinion) lurking is a valid scumtell that is unfortunately greatly overused and far too often misused.

QFT

I think we need to be more specific when it comes to Medix:

I looked at the playerlist, and I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious.

Can you explain what you meant by this? You mentioned your vote for Random was... random, so do you have anything better to go off of? Who is scummy in your books right now?

[pablito]

Vote Count

Medix (2): MichelSableheart, Kyiv
Kyiv (1): PatriotsDynasty09
RandomMaster (1): Medix
Lastsurvivor (1): Magic Trainer
Magic Trainer (1): kunkstar7

not voting: walrus helmet, RandomMaster, Lastsurvivor

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Note: As shown before, when using quote tags, don't forget to include both start and end tags. and also don't forget the apostrophes around the name, if you decide to include one.

[Magic Trainer]

My vote for Lastsurvivor was because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be however I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts about this game are set in stone, when they're not.

I'm not saying your opinions/thoughts need to be set in stone. Actually that would not be beneficial to the town. What I am pointing out is how your arguments are inconsistent. You started your post saying you didn't want to change a random vote to a vote on walrus because you only

felt

he was lurking, but then you continue the post with a vote on Lastsurvivor based off the

feeling

that he is being irritated? How is that in any way consistent?

That's just the way I play, if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them, as I've seen everyone else do every game I played. This is a newbie game and you can't expect everyone to play exactly like you.

Can you explain this, I'm not understanding this. Why would I expect anyone to play like me?

And you still didn't clarify your answer to the question I posed earlier.

This is your question correct?

So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

I already answered this, not being sure about a reason behind someone being scum and someone being scum are two different things. You realize this correct?

I was not sure if Walrus was lurking so I did not vote him right away,

I even said I wanted to hear his defense first, did you miss this because this explains why I did not vote him right away. Also, did you miss this on purpose?

As for Lastsurviver I know what my reasons are, him being scum though is not what I'm completly sure about I'm confident enough to vote for him for the time being, besides If I feel like he isn't scum all I need to do is unvote. Doing this will not only allow me to actualy play but it will allow the town to learrn from my accusation and his, which of course will help the town.

You do know that I never said I had to be 100% sure to vote someone right? Pointing out me not voting Walrus and ten voting LS with this as your accusation makes me feel like you're putting words in my mouth.

As for the first thing you said in your post, "I will vote for whoever I think scum is" I don't think there's an easier way to explain that. Remember this is a newbie game, howvere you constantly asking why I voted (Insert name here) makes me feel like you disagree with my vote which is perfectly fine, but it also makes me feel like you expect me play just like you. If that's not your intention then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

I think I explained everything, but if you'd still like me to answer questions please do so.

[walrus helmet]

This is unrelated to the discussion of lurking, but I'm afraid I need to request a replacement. I won't have enough time to focus on this game so I'd rather be replaced and not make you think I'm avoiding it on purpose. And so pablito will see:

Mod: Requesting Replacement

Have fun guys.

walrus helmet has been replaced by almightybob

[Magic Trainer]

[quote="Lastsurviver]Irritation can make you "sure enough" to vote? That could get you a FoS maybe, not too sure about a vote though. I'm not quite sure I see the reason that gets you from the FoS zone to the vote zone [/quote]

I'm not so used to these fancy wiki terms yet, so to me right now there's really no difference as to where one zone is and where one zone isn't. you'll have to explain, but at the time I had nothing else.

It wasn't just you being irritated, it was because I think you got irritated too soon. Also you didn't point out where everyone seems to be always asking you the same question over and over like I kindly asked you too.

[Lastsurvivor]

I skimmed the thread again, I only saw Walrus asking you. Please point out the posts were everyone seems to be asking you over and over.

I voted for you because I had a real suspicion and you seemed liked the logical choice for the person to lynche. It's better than my random vote and since you haven't lowered my suspicions I'm keeping my vote.

Answered questions

or defended myself.

It was pointed out to me by Kyiv, RandomMaster, Michel, and you of course. [/u]

^ And walrus too.

And where we are at in the game has no relevance to when I get annoyed.

[Magic Trainer]

Ah alright, thank you. So three people asked, (I pointed out it, I did not ask) still makes me feel it was a little early.

As of now, I'm still gona keep my vote

but

I'm going to take a look at the wiki to see if there's anything about scum getting irritated fast. If I see something I'll most likely keep my vote because that'll match up with your behavior (right?) but if I don't I'll just unvote and continue what I've been doing.

Just curious, what do you think of Medix and Kyiv at the moment? I have to go right about now so I can't explain all my thoughts but I'll post them when I come back.

[Lastsurvivor]

Ah alright, thank you. So three people asked, (I pointed out it, I did not ask) still makes me feel it was a little early.

As of now, I'm still gona keep my vote

but

I'm going to take a look at the wiki to see if there's anything about scum getting irritated fast. If I see something I'll most likely keep my vote because that'll match up with your behavior (right?) but if I don't I'll just unvote and continue what I've been doing.

Just curious, what do you think of Medix and Kyiv at the moment? I have to go right about now so I can't explain all my thoughts but I'll post them when I come back.

Just because someone does something that the wiki says is scummy doesn't automatically make them scum. How many people should have asked me before I got irritated?

I basically have the same thoughts as everyone else does on Medix, and Kyiv is fine with me too.

[Medix]

I basically have the same thoughts as everyone else does on Medix, and Kyiv is fine with me too.

Um, what do you think about me? Looks like some person here has a bad feeling about me.

[pablito]

almightybob replaces walrus helmet

Thanks so much, almightybob!

[MichelSableheart]

@Random: I think random, baseless vote is better than weak-based vote since the random vote is a bridge to make a base to a better vote.

Wouldn't that exact same argument work better for the weakbased vote?

The explanation by Magic Trainer in #109 is sound.

[almightybob]

Hello

Reading through now.

[almightybob]

Mkay.

Such as Walrus right now, I feel like he's just lurking so I would prefer to change my vote to him but I believe my vote for the time being is good enough

Note - MT's "vote for the time being" was on Kyiv, "because she's the person posting above me".

the scum however I don't a clue on hower I do suspect Walrus has a chance of being scum

... eh?

if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them

How does this scan with the Walrus debacle?

I said I felt like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure.
[...]
I prefer to be sure about this things and find more about the current situation instead of changing my mind every few posts.
[...]
as I just said I wanted to be sure before I changed my vote.

My vote for Lastsuriver ws because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be howvere I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts abotu this game are set in stone, when they're not.

So... you want to be 100% sure someone is lurking before you vote for them. But you vote for whoever you think is scum. But you don't need to be 100% sure someone is scum to vote for them, and you never will be 100% sure. But you thought Walrus had a good chance of being scum. But you didn't vote for him.

Vote: Magic Trainer

Also guys,

please

use the preview button to check your post before you submit it. If your quote tags are broken, it will be very obvious and you can fix it before posting.

[Lastsurvivor]

I basically have the same thoughts as everyone else does on Medix, and Kyiv is fine with me too.

Um, what do you think about me? Looks like some person here has a bad feeling about me.

I think you lurk, and although I don't normally find lurking scummy, you might be a different case.

Also what Randommaster said in his post earlier. Sorry, the "too" at the end of my statement was sort of misleading.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I basically have the same thoughts as everyone else does on Medix, and Kyiv is fine with me too.

Um, what do you think about me? Looks like some person here has a bad feeling about me.

I know this was directed at Lastsurvivor but I think the thing that's wrong about you is that you are not scumhunting at all. Right now you are just coming in whenever someone mentions your name. As town you

need

to be scumhunting in order to help the town win. Therefore you are lurking which I find as a scumtell.

FOS: Medix

Need to see more content from you.

[RandomMaster]

@Random: I think random, baseless vote is better than weak-based vote since the random vote is a bridge to make a base to a better vote.

Ok, but aren't we passed baseless random voting? Now there some actual information to make a based vote, and like Michel said, wouldn't the weak-based vote lead more towards a bridge to make a better vote?

@Patriots: ANYONE can lurk as a strategy, either scum or town can use it.

Can you exlain how someone that is pro-town use lurking as a strategy? That would just withhold information from the town, and the town needs as much information as it can get.

@Michel: Okay, I'm still in learning session, so most thing I can do is either supporting any attacks or make a defense for myself.

Some of us are still learning, including me since this is my first game, but that doesn't prevent from trying to find scum. Like Patriots said, you seem to just pop out of nowhere when you're name is thrown in.

I feel that the explanations that you give don't really hold up to anything, baseless as Kyiv pointed out, and you still haven't answered the questions that I pointed out in post 92. I believe you're still avoiding to answer. For this:

Vote: Medix

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Alrite so Medix is at L-2. Let him give his defense.

If he doesn't give any defense by 8pm EST tomorrow I will vote for him.

[Lastsurvivor]

Alrite so Medix is at L-2. Let him give his defense.

If he doesn't give any defense by 8pm EST tomorrow I will vote for him.

You do realize that we have seventeen days until the deadline right? We don't need to lynch Medix yet. We can still get a lot more out of D1.