Mini 909: Nice'n'Fun Mafia (Game Over)

[Quagmire]

The way I see it is if you haven't opened your role PM you aren't really playing mafia - you're abusing a mechanic of the game to try and get a cheap ride to the endgame.

It is extremely interesting to see the vehemence with which Nacho is trying to defend Quag here. I am looking forward to his flip very much - as I'm sure he is too, given that he doesn't know what it will be. This so-called "passive scumhunting" has proven itself to be nothing more than a dumb excuse for lurking and posting one-liners (except when his own neck is on the line of course) from what I've seen so far and I honestly do not feel like allowing it to continue.

Unvote, Vote: Quagmire

- let me know when you're actually playing mafia.

Do you not realize how anti-town this type of thinking is?

[Quagmire]

I've decided that under no circumstances I will read my role PM today, mostly because I want to troll Cyberbob and Hoopla some more. With that said, if I end up getting lynched, I'm ultimately no better a lynch choice than random chance... which is without question an "anti-town" way of playing the game.

[Hoopla]

Quagmire, do you have reads on any other players? Do you still think Flareon is solidly town? Do you find any players voting you/challenging your 'playstyle' suspicious?

[Quagmire]

Quagmire, do you have reads on any other players? Do you still think Flareon is solidly town? Do you find any players voting you/challenging your 'playstyle' suspicious?

Flareon is town, Hoopla I think you're slightly towniesh, Nachomamma8 is really town (and not because he's as "on my side" as other players get). Cyberbob is getting scummier and scummier by the post. I don't buy the town read you have on Hitorogoshi either, but I'd like to observe a few Hitorogoshi posts before making a judgment with him either.

[Hoopla]

I've decided that under no circumstances I will read my role PM today, mostly because I want to troll Cyberbob and Hoopla some more. With that said, if I end up getting lynched, I'm ultimately no better a lynch choice than random chance... which is without question an "anti-town" way of playing the game.

Borrowing a statistic I posted a couple of months ago in Mini 865;

* Of the last 3:9 closed Mini Normals, mafia were only lynched 13 times out of 64 on Day 1.

I haven't updated this yet to include recently completed games, but I doubt town's ability to lynch scum D1 would have gone above random. As far as I am concerned, lynching anti-town play D1 is a viable strategy, as it still gives decent enough odds of hitting scum, but then has the added bonus of eliminating someone anti-town tied in. I think many players overvalue their reads (especially on D1).

[Quagmire]

64 is such a tiny sample size of games. It doesn't consider balance, nor the reasons for lynching the players. Don't you think it's probable that the majority of day one mislynches are lynches for 'anti-town' behavior?

[Cruciare]

angelmouse was prodded a while ago. She has *some time* to show up before I start looking for replacements.

Vote Count

Quagmire (4)

hitogoroshi, Hoopla, Flareonage, Cyberbob

The Tracker (2)

AGar, Nachomamma8

hitogoroshi (1)

Mindgamer

Flareonage (1)

RedCoyote

Not Voting (4)

cruelty, angelmouse, The Tracker, Quagmire

With twelve alive, it takes seven to guillotine.

[Quagmire]

64 is such a tiny sample size of games. It doesn't consider balance, nor the reasons for lynching the players. Don't you think it could be probable that the majority of day one mislynches are lynches for 'anti-town' behavior?

My last post should actually read like this.

[Cyberbob]

I've decided that under no circumstances I will read my role PM today, mostly because I want to troll Cyberbob and Hoopla some more.

Yeah dude I'm so emotionally affected by a thing a person does in a mafia game! it just eats me up inside that you won't read your PM........GRRRRRRRRRR

[Hoopla]

Quagmire - No, I'd suggest the majority of D1 lynches are from people deluding themself into thinking they've caught some awesome scumslip. I very rarely see policy-lynches against anti-town play - occasionally a lurker will die, but even then it is rare to have them lynched purely for this reason.

[cruelty]

vote: quagmire

I've decided that under no circumstances I will read my role PM today, mostly because I want to troll Cyberbob and Hoopla some more.

right, because this is helpful.

You're not scumhunting, you're not contributing, you're being wilfully anti-town at this point.


You know what the worst part of this playstyle is? You bring a lot of heat on yourself and distract town entirely (everyone is pretty much tunneled on you right now), so if you are a town power role, you're going to be forced into claiming day 1, thus heavily compromising your ability to help us. It's just fucking bad play.

[RedCoyote]

This is all a big smokescreen, and I won't really have any part in it any longer. It is a waste of our time, and it's distracting most of the townies from doing anything else. I don't know whether or not it's worth using the lynch on Quagmire if only the quell this principled uproar, but I don't think everyone on his wagon is there honestly. I implore those voting him to keep a closer eye on your wagon buddies as the day marches on.

---

Oi oi oi!

Welcome, AGar!

[Cyberbob]

This is all a big smokescreen, and I won't really have any part in it any longer. It is a waste of our time, and it's distracting most of the townies from doing anything else. I don't know whether or not it's worth using the lynch on Quagmire if only the quell this principled uproar, but I don't think everyone on his wagon is there honestly. I implore those voting him to keep a closer eye on your wagon buddies as the day marches on.

If you're trying to bus somebody (which is honestly what all these shifty little attempts to focus suspicion look like), you're doing it badly.

"I won't really have any part in it any longer."

When did you ever have a part in it to begin with?

FOS: RedCoyote

[AGar]

I've had a tough time trying to sit down and read the game today - I'll have much more success tomorrow.

However, I will be unvoting for now, as I have 0 reads at the moment and the vote misconstrues my position in this game - I don't have one, a vote says "I stand here."

Unvote

[Nachomamma8]

And I think your example is missing a big thing. Yes, we don't lynch anyone who lurks a whole day - because those things happen. But Quagmire has made it his POLICY to not post anything relevant to his alignment d1. It's the difference between coming in D2 and saying 'Shit guys, I didn't post at all day 1!" and walking in D1 and saying, "Hey guys, not gonna post at all today" and that difference is a hell of a lot bigger than nothing.

But he IS posting, and he is drawing a lot of attention to himself. The reason lurking is scummy is not only because they're hard to read, but also because they don't have to give their opinions and anyone, and they also fly under the radar don't get noticed at all. Quagmire is being noticed, he's giving his opinions on things: Now, if a read of his changes, then he'll have to explain why.

[quote="hitogoroshi""]
I really don't like Nacho's idea of a weighting factor (We'll suspect him MORE on D2!) because the fact that Quagmire says, "My actions D1 help me immensely as scum' suggests that THAT DOESN'T WORK.
[/quote]
That "weighting factor" is the same one you're taking into account right now while you're not voting angelmouse. You figure that she'll either show up or get replaced; either way, something will happen that will allow you to get a better read on her.

I haven't updated this yet to include recently completed games, but I doubt town's ability to lynch scum D1 would have gone above random. As far as I am concerned, lynching anti-town play D1 is a viable strategy, as it still gives decent enough odds of hitting scum, but then has the added bonus of eliminating someone anti-town tied in. I think many players overvalue their reads (especially on D1).

This isn't lynching anti-town, though. Lynching anti-town is lynching someone who is lurking, spamming, etc..., because you're pretty sure that the behavior will continue, and you want them gone before LyLo comes around so it doesn't cost you the game.

vote: quagmire

I've decided that under no circumstances I will read my role PM today, mostly because I want to troll Cyberbob and Hoopla some more.

right, because this is helpful.

You're not scumhunting, you're not contributing, you're being wilfully anti-town at this point.


You know what the worst part of this playstyle is? You bring a lot of heat on yourself and distract town entirely (everyone is pretty much tunneled on you right now), so if you are a town power role, you're going to be forced into claiming day 1, thus heavily compromising your ability to help us. It's just fucking bad play.

The way I see it is if you haven't opened your role PM you aren't really playing mafia - you're abusing a mechanic of the game to try and get a cheap ride to the endgame.

It is extremely interesting to see the vehemence with which Nacho is trying to defend Quag here. I am looking forward to his flip very much - as I'm sure he is too, given that he doesn't know what it will be. This so-called "passive scumhunting" has proven itself to be nothing more than a dumb excuse for lurking and posting one-liners (except when his own neck is on the line of course) from what I've seen so far and I honestly do not feel like allowing it to continue.

Unvote,

Vote: Quagmire

- let me know when you're actually playing mafia.

Trying implies you still disagree with me. If you disagree with me, please respond to my posts yourself instead of waiting for Hito or Hoopla to do it for you.

If Quagmire flips town, I'll be excited to reexamine his wagon, to find people like you & cruelty who have been jumping on a wagon at opportune times.
If Quagmire flips scum, I'll be excited to look at people like Mindgamer and The Tracker, who have failed to comment on the Quagmire wagon at all.

Likewise, your FoS on RedCoyote is weak, hypocritical, and mostly meaningless. First of all, do you disagree with the point he made? Second of all, do you think you had a part in this?

@Cruelty: Quagmire doesn't read his Role PM; that includes if he's about to be lynched, I'm guessing.

[angelmouse]

Guys i am here, sorry for the weekend off, laptop never arrived so was completely without net. I have it in my hands now. Have the evening off tonight so will do a mega read through and post huge amounts.

[Cyberbob]

Trying implies you still disagree with me. If you disagree with me, please respond to my posts yourself instead of waiting for Hito or Hoopla to do it for you.

I'm not "waiting for Hito or Hoopla to do it for me", I already did it with the giving of my stance on not reading role PMs. Durp.

If Quagmire flips town, I'll be excited to reexamine his wagon, to find people like you & cruelty who have been jumping on a wagon at opportune times.
If Quagmire flips scum, I'll be excited to look at people like Mindgamer and The Tracker, who have failed to comment on the Quagmire wagon at all.

More power to you.

Likewise, your FoS on RedCoyote is weak, hypocritical, and mostly meaningless. First of all, do you disagree with the point he made? Second of all, do you think you had a part in this?

Why is it hypocritical? Are you sure you know what that word means?

Re your first question: Yes.

Re your second question: You're asking me whether I think I had a part in this? Is there a typo in there somewhere?



Do you think his stance of "im not gonna read my role pm to trol u guys hehehehehe" is pro-town?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not "waiting for Hito or Hoopla to do it for me", I already did it with the giving of my stance on not reading role PMs. Durp.

But you didn't actually respond to anything anyone else posted, now did you?

Why is it hypocritical? Are you sure you know what that word means?

You're FoSing him because he said "I'm not having a part in this any longer", and you said he never had a part. The only part you've had in all of this is jumping on an easy wagon.

You're asking me whether I think I had a part in this? Is there a typo in there somewhere?

Oops, my bad. I mean to say "How have you had any part in this whatsoever?"

As for your question, no.

[Cyberbob]

But you didn't actually respond to anything anyone else posted, now did you?

Every post in a thread is a response to another post (or posts) except for the OP. Just because I didn't specifically quote any posts doesn't mean I wasn't responding to them.

You're FoSing him because he said "I'm not having a part in this any longer", and you said he never had a part. The only part you've had in all of this is jumping on an easy wagon.

The difference is that I never claimed that I had a part in it before. I don't think you really get why I FOS'd him.

Oops, my bad. I mean to say "How have you had any part in this whatsoever?"

I haven't, and never claimed I did before now. Again, you don't understand my point.

As for your question, no.

But you're willing to excuse it.

[Hoopla]

This is all a big smokescreen, and I won't really have any part in it any longer. It is a waste of our time, and it's distracting most of the townies from doing anything else. I don't know whether or not it's worth using the lynch on Quagmire if only the quell this principled uproar, but I don't think everyone on his wagon is there honestly. I implore those voting him to keep a closer eye on your wagon buddies as the day marches on.

You've mentioned a couple of time that you think people (scum) are abusing the situation - but you seem to be avoiding the possibility of Quagmire scum. If he is scum, do you think his buddies would be bussing him, or trying to make use of his tactic and keep him alive?

What makes you think his wagon is scum-driven? What chance do you give his wagon being town-driven?

[cruelty]

@Cruelty: Quagmire doesn't read his Role PM; that includes if he's about to be lynched, I'm guessing.

I could have sworn someone linked to a game where Quag said he did read it if forced to roleclaim. I can't find the post now though, maybe I imagined it.

The thing is he's now deliberately trolling - why? Quag, can you explain to me how your actions are helping you? I can't see how drawing this much attention to yourself aids you as scum, or how drawing this much suspicion and deliberately trolling the thread benefits you as town. Seems lose/lose to me.

[Quagmire]

@Cruelty: Quagmire doesn't read his Role PM; that includes if he's about to be lynched, I'm guessing.

I could have sworn someone linked to a game where Quag said he did read it if forced to roleclaim. I can't find the post now though, maybe I imagined it.

The thing is he's now deliberately trolling - why? Quag, can you explain to me how your actions are helping you? I can't see how drawing this much attention to yourself aids you as scum, or how drawing this much suspicion and deliberately trolling the thread benefits you as town. Seems lose/lose to me.

Because the logic behind Hoopla's argument is frustrating. I have read and claimed my role PM before. That was in Tree Stump I.

[Quagmire]

vote: Cyberbob

, reason post coming up after work tonight

[Quagmire]

Quagmire - No, I'd suggest the majority of D1 lynches are from people deluding themself into thinking they've caught some awesome scumslip. I very rarely see policy-lynches against anti-town play - occasionally a lurker will die, but even then it is rare to have them lynched purely for this reason.

I'd tend to disagree, because nobody ever assumes they have a foolproof D1 case, but I'm not about to page through 64 games and prove anybody right... if you'd like to do it to prove me wrong, please do go right ahead. I do however believe that a good D1 case will catch scum a higher percentage than random chance, which is why I'm all against policy lynches, which are no more than random chance.

[Cyberbob]

vote: Cyberbob

, reason post coming up after work tonight

lol >_<