Open 190 - Trendy and Subversive C9 - Over

[DocPotter]

Wow. So Docpotter is trying to find out who the doc is to the point where he asks for a claim, gets a reaction from Star, and posts a conclusion that Star isn't a Doc. If that's not scummy, I don't know what is. Let's lynch this guy.

Seems pretty clear to me. I'm not trying to find out who the doc is. Star, by his own posts is either the doc or scum.

If he's the doc, and I'm scum, why would I lynch him and activate the deputy when we have no idea who it would be.
If he's scum, then of course I'm voting him.
If he's the Doc, why wouldn't he claim and give 2 of the townies a 66% chance to randomly hit scum. Hell, two of the townies would only have three suspects to look at!

But now that he's marked himself as the scum, the doc should stay quiet so Star's scum buddy doesn't know who to target.


No doubt someone will say I'm changing my tune. Well I am kinda. I wanted the doc to claim to confirm Star as town/scum. But we've managed that anyway.

[wolframnhart]

Wow. So Docpotter is trying to find out who the doc is to the point where he asks for a claim, gets a reaction from Star, and posts a conclusion that Star isn't a Doc. If that's not scummy, I don't know what is. Let's lynch this guy.

Seems pretty clear to me. I'm not trying to find out who the doc is. Star, by his own posts is either the doc or scum.

If he's the doc, and I'm scum, why would I lynch him and activate the deputy when we have no idea who it would be.
If he's scum, then of course I'm voting him.
If he's the Doc, why wouldn't he claim and give 2 of the townies a 66% chance to randomly hit scum. Hell, two of the townies would only have three suspects to look at!

But now that he's marked himself as the scum, the doc should stay quiet so Star's scum buddy doesn't know who to target.


No doubt someone will say I'm changing my tune. Well I am kinda. I wanted the doc to claim to confirm Star as town/scum. But we've managed that anyway.

I don't see start being scum from this Doc.

Your first point is WIFOM, who can say what a person will do as scum?
That is IF he is scum, which fine you believe he is, but it is not a damning point against Start.
So if he is not doc how/why would he claim? How is him nto claiming bad at all?

So from these three points he has somehow marked himself as scum? I just don't see it.

[DocPotter]

Because he commiited the biggest of tells.

Which I've already quoted.

From which he is either the Doc or Scum. Something that you and Star are being careful not to comment on now, but something that both Kitty and I spotted and commented on. (Do I need to provide the quotes?)

And I am forced to wonder why I am going through things again that I have gone through before. Anyway...

Since he has not acted as the doc would, which would be to the massive benifit of the town, he must be scum.

[KittyMo]

I feel ignored...

[DocPotter]

I got no problem with a mass claim, since we have to hit scum.

Kitty, there's only been one soft claim and it's been disprooved.

[wolframnhart]

I'm sorry but i refuse to believe that Star is either Doc or Scum, he could very well be a VT, your tunnel visioning on him is not helping either in my view.

[DocPotter]

Well, now we know we have a doctor. Well done whoever you are.

Do you disagree that this is a fairly standard tell?

[wolframnhart]

Yes I do. When I read up on the thread I assumed there was a doctor as well, had I been here at day two's beginning I probably would have said the same thing, the only other option is scum did not send in a kill, but that would be the lest likely of scenarios because it would have been one hell of a mistake on their part.

[KittyMo]

Yes I do. When I read up on the thread I assumed there was a doctor as well, had I been here at day two's beginning I probably would have said the same thing, the only other option is scum did not send in a kill, but that would be the lest likely of scenarios because it would have been one hell of a mistake on their part.

How do you feel about massclaiming?

[wolframnhart]

I have been thinking on that, but honestly I cannot decide. If everyone is in agreement on it fine, but let's do it popcorn style.

The main reason I cannot decide is that if it comes down to the doc/nurse or cop/deputy (the latter being the least likely roles in this game) claiming and everyone else claiming VT where does that leave us? If we end up lynching the wrong person then the power roles are left exposed at night, and I just don't see that being a good thing.

[KittyMo]

Well, if the main power role (Doctor/Cop) claim, they would confirm someone, assuming in the case of a doctor that the scum killed, and in the case of a cop that they weren't roleblocked, and they'd also be confirmed. In the case of the lesser power role (Deputy/Nurse), they would just be confirmed, which would narrow down the scum to either 3 or 4 people, depending if the main power role clears the lesser power role.

So if both scum claimed VTs, it'd make both power roles clear but their power useless.

Also, I'm not sure if everyone realizes this, but there is an equal chance of each of these pairs being in the game:
Doc/Nurse
Doc/Deputy
Cop/Nurse
Cop/Deputy

as stated by the first post.

[wolframnhart]

See maybe I am taking the first post in a different light, because why would there be a Cop/Nurse or Doc/Deputy set up? Nurse and Deputy roles activate when the Doc/Cop dies, so having one without the other seems pointless.

[KittyMo]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... versive_C9

As said by the first post, we're playing Version 3.

[wolframnhart]

I get that, i just don't get the point of putting in a Doc/deputy combo or a Cop/nurse combo, seems pointless to have that filler semi-power not gonna ever turn into a power role role ya know?

[KittyMo]

Well, it'll be helpful during MC seeing as there can only be one Deputy/Nurse...other than that, yes, we have a 50% chance of having only one useful power role.

[wolframnhart]

Hmm..

well then as i said, if everyone agrees to it, fine, as long as we popcorn claim, but I am still iffy on it to be honest.

[kunkstar7]

I'm not sure what to think about a massclaim. Having both roles exposed allows the scum to easily disable them at night, considering they also have a roleblocker as well.

I'm pretty sure that if there is a doc then there is a nurse, or if there is a cop there is a deputy, not a mix of the two. Note the way the Deputy and Nurse role messages are worded.

[KittyMo]

EXCEDRIN

DISPELL OUR CONFUSION POR FAVOR

[DocPotter]

Kitty is right. I asked a related question and got a specific answer several days ago.

[DocPotter]

*ebwop. That tells me that Kitty is right.

Sick of forms and signing my name

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kitty, I agree with Star about both of those things. I found it surprising because he seemed so scummy Day 1.

Massclaim is a bad idea because it exposes power roles. Especially if we no lynch because then we give scum a free kill AND tell scum who they should be targeting.

Major FoS Kitty

[Excedrin]

I'm pretty sure that if there is a doc then there is a nurse, or if there is a cop there is a deputy, not a mix of the two. Note the way the Deputy and Nurse role messages are worded.

There's an even 50/50 chance of cop or doctor. Then there's another independent 50/50 chance that there's a nurse or deputy.

It's entirely possible that there's a nurse and cop or deputy and doctor.

That's why it's called "trendy"

Also, note that regular C9 has 1 power role, 2 power roles or 0 power roles. In Trendy&Subversive C9, there's always 2 power roles, but there's basically a 50/50 chance that one of them is useless. There's never 0 PR.

[startransmission]

Hey, I'll get a post up tonight. It requires a lot of quoting etc. and right now MS is slower than molasses. I'll get to it soon though.

[KittyMo]

Kitty, I agree with Star about both of those things. I found it surprising because he seemed so scummy Day 1.

Massclaim is a bad idea because it exposes power roles. Especially if we no lynch because then we give scum a free kill AND tell scum who they should be targeting.

Major FoS Kitty

No, no, no. You didn't read my post fully.

1. We're obviously not no lynching since at least 3 people are against it, so we can't have a no lynch vote. That's not ideal, imo, but I'm not going to waste time to keep arguing it.
2. So, my thought process was, if we're going to treat this like lylo (i.e. not no lynching), then we should probably massclaim, like is normally done in lylo.
3. I recognize that while we'd be outing the power roles, it would give us an eye opener as to who the scum are because the setup is open.
4. Since when did you become open to no lynching?

[startransmission]

I apologize for being absent the last couple of days.

I answered everything. You're still misquoting me, and you're not thinking.

Where have I misquoted you? And here are some of the questions that have been asked of you that you have not responded to.

I didn't read all of his games. I referenced the one other game I played in with him. His behavior as scum was fairly consistent with his behavior here. I discarded nothing. The mistake is yours. And what does lurkery mean?

I don't believe that. So what was the reason? Why wouldn't you bring up that reason when you FoSed me? How could I not think that you were FoSing me for not going along with the no lynch, when the only content of that post was you agreeing/buddying with Kitty for being for it, while scolding me for not?

So where did I discard/cherrypick? By the way, what was the name of the game that I played with him? I really don't think you have even read through it.

Doc how can you even remotely think that a no lynch is the way to go? Did you see my post where I describe three possible scenarios, all of which are bad for the town?

I would really like you to clarify what you meant here. Ah, and please try and copy the real quote, whole quote.

Excuse me? My point was that a no-lynch today would hurt the already insanely slow pace of this game. So where's the inconsistency? And when else did I agree with somebody about something, and then hold it against them?

What? He was focused and played reasonably well? Are you serious? But wait, he also played scummy? So which is it? And when did I say that my meta on him was based on him making mistakes?