Mini 909: Nice'n'Fun Mafia (Game Over)

[Hoopla]

Ugh this is really frustrating that no one seems open to an RC lynch. Hito and edfrost find it almost impossible that I could find him scummy, it's just surreal.

Hoopla/cruelty thoughts on edfrost?

Angelmouse was a lurker, and she used logic I didn't agree with toward the Quagmire wagon. Her most suspicious moment came late on D1, where she prompted a claim from The Tracker over Quagmire, despite them both being at L-3 (which I noted previously here). I think it was probably loopy town play though, as I'm not sure she was paying a lot of attention to the game.

Since EdFrost's introduction, he has done nothing to tickle me the wrong way. In fact he has seemed pro-town in his activity and scumhunting. Good on him.

~~

Hito, you'd seriously prefer no-lynch over an RC lynch?

[EdFrost]

Hoopla, I know at least I have experience with you. Though at this point it's just name recognition rather than remember which game or what you did in it. Not sure about the other head.

And not *that* kind of experience (your smiley...)

Faraday: Yes, I believe that RC sensed that it was mostly a scum push against Quag and didn't want to be part of it. I've avoided several (town) wagons by disagreeing solely with the people voting for the person. If there's a lot of sheeple or scumreads I don't vote for that person. Period.

For day 1, you can't tell me that Quag (1 person) took up less than like 50% (or more) of the conversation. In that regard, 11 people took up the other "50%" and if you average that out it's basically saying that nobody really discussed anybody but Quag seriously. Though I did dismiss Tracker a bit in my mind; then the two of them (quag/tracker) were even more of a topic about the town.

I agree with hito that I don't completely understand your (Fara) scumlist. I agree with RC that Quag's wagon looked extremely scum driven and I wouldn't have joined it either.

Gotta run for now, be back to respond to posts after i get back

[RedCoyote]

I still don't see the big thing which would make RedCoyote scum. The cases are collections of little scumtells as far as I can see.

What exactly is the convincing argument for a RedCoyote vote?

(emphasis added)

I like how after Mindgamer said this,

all three

people on my wagon chose to ignore him.

But I urge everyone to consider RC as a possibility please!

Ugh this is really frustrating that no one seems open to an RC lynch.

That just speaks volumes about the sincerity of my wagon. They're essentially confessing to Mindgamer that they don't have anything, and that he just needs to "be more open" to it, or whatever.

Like Faraday though, Mindgamer's unwillingness to join my wagon despite his own really makes me think him more as town.

I don't know. I feel like if we lynch Mindgamer, this problem is going to fester tomorrow, barring mafia intervention. I really feel like this town is broken straight down the middle on cruelty.

I mean, I don't know what else to say. Mafia or not, cruelty has a chip on his shoulder that he's willingly acknowledged. I don't see how someone can not see that as anti-town. At the very least, he should be gotten rid of in case he does what he's doing to me to someone else tomorrow. AGar, The Tracker, and Nacho (we'll see how the replacement does; hi horror) are either absent or have not come down on one side or the other with any passion.

[Faraday]

Faraday, that's what I'm getting it - how in the world can you find THAT townie? I can see that maybe people see RC scummy, while I don't, but what I don't like is the 'cases' on him. It's like people KNOW he's very townie, and they're trying to do their best to pull up some kind of craplogic because others are doing it. I've got this feeling that RC wouldn't have been your strongest scum-read without cruelty's tunnel-vote or Hoopla lord-knows-what vote on him.

Well, admittedly that post isn't a real town tell. But idk, I don't see it as scummy either. Being a sarcastic ass isn't indicative of alignment. Sure it's annoying when directed at you, and I can understand RC's frustration in that respect but ehh, doesn't make him scummy.

So if you can see that people see he's scummy what other reasons do you think there are?

It's honestly to the point I'm probably happier with a cruelty lynch than a mindgamer lynch. Unfortunately, that's not an option barring a quick exodus of votes to crueltyville - I am not letting an RC lynch happen, so we have to keep this Mindgamer wagon viable. That being said, Mindgamer, I am liking the content coming out of your slot with your last couple of posts. It's probably too late for you, but on the chance you're townie, if you could just do a little more of what you're doing you'll be able to give us a lot to go on D3 (contrast with Quagmire). If you're a townie, I hope you can understand why I had to push your wagon and I hope next time we play together you open with this kind of content.

You're not even trying to get a cruelty wagon going though, lol. Do you ever remember making a similar post like this when you're town/scum before? It's just well...this feels really contrived.

Faraday: Yes, I believe that RC sensed that it was mostly a scum push against Quag and didn't want to be part of it. I've avoided several (town) wagons by disagreeing solely with the people voting for the person. If there's a lot of sheeple or scumreads I don't vote for that person. Period.

Okay. I don't think that's possible. So I 100% disagree with your understanding of RC's actions.

I still don't see the big thing which would make RedCoyote scum. The cases are collections of little scumtells as far as I can see.

What exactly is the convincing argument for a RedCoyote vote?

(emphasis added)

I like how after Mindgamer said this,

all three

people on my wagon chose to ignore him.

Yeah...that speaks volumes

However, I do not really agree on the RedCoyote bandwagon. I must also admit that I have not read it really carefully though. I have a headache now but it will be gone this evening (I hope) so I will give my full opinion on the wagon later today.

Hmm..wait..what did he just say?

I must also admit that I have not read it really carefully though

Hm.

I must also admit that I have not read it really carefully though

(yes that probably wasn't neccessary)

Large font added. I was waiting for him to read it and form his own opinion of the wagon before answering. I'd also disagree with his initial observation that it's 'small scumtells' I think they're quite large but w/e, at the very least he'd admitted to skimming and I'll wait till he reads it properly

That just speaks volumes about the sincerity of my wagon. They're essentially confessing to Mindgamer that they don't have anything, and that he just needs to "be more open" to it, or whatever.

No..wait..what? I can't believe you honestly read my post as a confession. I'm annoyed because people can't seem to see your scumminess, but I'm pretty sure that was clear the first time.

I mean, I don't know what else to say. Mafia or not, cruelty has a chip on his shoulder that he's willingly acknowledged. I don't see how someone can not see that as anti-town.

Just to be clear, you do still think he's scummy don't you?

[Faraday]

It's honestly to the point I'm probably happier with a cruelty lynch than a mindgamer lynch. Unfortunately, that's not an option barring a quick exodus of votes to crueltyville - I am not letting an RC lynch happen, so we have to keep this Mindgamer wagon viable. That being said, Mindgamer, I am liking the content coming out of your slot with your last couple of posts. It's probably too late for you, but on the chance you're townie, if you could just do a little more of what you're doing you'll be able to give us a lot to go on D3 (contrast with Quagmire). If you're a townie, I hope you can understand why I had to push your wagon and I hope next time we play together you open with this kind of content.

You're not even trying to get a cruelty wagon going though, lol.

Do you ever remember making a similar post like this when you're town/scum before? It's just well...this feels really contrived.

Eh, see the strike through. I think it probably is too late to start a new wagon so pass agressive accusation withdrawn.

[horrordude0215]

AGar:
I like his aggression, and his case on Mindgamer isn't bad. (Sorry, not a lot to say here)
Final Read: Neutral leaning townie.

Cruelty:
Cruelty is an opportunist, but I can't tell whether he's lazy or not. His reasons for jumping on the Quagmire wagon were pretty damn weak, that's for sure. His vote on Mindgamer is a lot stronger, so town points if Mind flips scum. His vote on RC is scummy beyond belief; if Hoopla flips anything but town, he's likely scum.
Final Read: Neutral leaning scum.

Flareonage:
I'm pretty sure Flare is town. He's paranoid and cautious about being manipulated, which is town. He's quick to vote, but quick to take his vote back, which is worrisome, but it just seems like a townie getting excited that he's found some golden scumtell, then, realizing it isn't, going back to his original position. He realizes hypocrisy when it happens, and doesn't vote people for being inactive because the same reasoning could apply to him. I like that; it shows he's in a townie mindset.
Final Read: Strong town.

Hito:
His Day 2 play has been a lot better than his Day 1 play, I hate his unvote on Quagmire, and his whole case for lynching Quagmire is crap. He realizes his mistake far too late, which seems a bit too convenient for me.
Final Read: Probable Mafia.

Hoopla:
Hoopla brought up Quagmire not reading his role PM, and started the wagon against him. However, she wasn't the main proponent of it. Scum points.
She then goes after RC for his defence of Quagmire, even though he wasn't the only one at all, and from the outside, it truly looks like either nachomomma or angel is the one trying to get town points for opposing the Quag wagon. Scum points.
Then, she hides behind a lurker vote (her vote for Angel). More scum points.
Her case on RedCoyote sucks. More scum points.
Read: Strong Mafia

Mindgamer:
Mind seems like a new scum struggling to play. His votes are horridly weak, and his activity sucks. Scum points.
ISO 7 is full of WIFOM. Scum points.
ISO 9 seems like him voting on what he feels will be the next hot bandwagon.
ISO 10 is weak.
ISO 11: He suggests to stop talking about the game setup, and yet he offers no alternative. Instead, he posts an extremely random voting chart. Flashy, but not helpful.
AtoE in ISO 12.
WIFOM in ISO 13.
Lazy questions in ISO 14.

Also, he hasn't interacted with Hoopla a whole lot, and she hasn't interacted with him at all. If he's mafia, there's a high chance Hoopla is as well. If he flips town, Hoopla's more likely to be the SK and just getting town points for opposing Mind's lynch.
Final Read: Strong Mafia

RedCoyote:

I love Red's play. He's agressive, he shows his reasoning, and Hoopla attacks him. He opposed the Quagmire wagon and offered alternatives, he's active.
Final Read: Probable Town

The Tracker:
Lurker. Lazy. Uninterested. Claimed FBI Agent before the CPR Doctor flip. Questioned nacho when she changed her mind on him so suddenly.
Final Read: Maybe Town.

Angelmouse/Faraday:
Meh, I don't know. As you can see, I'm getting a bit lazy here, but this read isn't because I'm lazy. I really have just completely failed in reading angelmouse. I mean, she opposed the Quag wagon, called for a Tracker lynch before the claim, and called Cyberbob town, which is pretty good, I guess. But again. I don't know, so I'll go with:
Final Read: Neutral leaning town.

[Faraday]

I replaced Flareonage, Edfrost replaced Angelmouse.

Now let me read.

[horrordude0215]

Oops, sorry about all those mistakes... I'm still semi-new to all of this!

[Faraday]

Not a problem, just pointing it out to you.

AGar:
I like his aggression, and his case on Mindgamer isn't bad. (Sorry, not a lot to say here)
Final Read: Neutral leaning townie.

Could you be a little more specific in what agression he's shown that you've liked?

Hoopla brought up Quagmire not reading his role PM, and started the wagon against him. However, she wasn't the main proponent of it. Scum points.

Uh? What do you mean? She pushed the wagon pretty much all day didn't she?

Mindgamer:
Mind seems like a new scum struggling to play. His votes are horridly weak, and his activity sucks. Scum points.

So you find lurking scummy then?

I love Red's play. He's agressive, he shows his reasoning, and Hoopla attacks him. He opposed the Quagmire wagon and offered alternatives, he's active.
Final Read: Probable Town

How do any of these make him more likely to be town?

that post is interesting, in all honesty it makes more of an impression than most of what nacho did, but yeah. Why do you think tracker is town? Is it because of his claim?

[cruelty]

I mean, I don't know what else to say. Mafia or not, cruelty has a chip on his shoulder that he's willingly acknowledged. I don't see how someone can not see that as anti-town. At the very least, he should be gotten rid of in case he does what he's doing to me to someone else tomorrow. AGar, The Tracker, and Nacho (we'll see how the replacement does; hi horror) are either absent or have not come down on one side or the other with any passion.

Ahh there we go.


Unwilling to lynch Quagmire, but happy to push the possibility that I might do the same thing tomorrow?

This is contradictory, inconsistent, bad. Scum.

[Mindgamer]

I've reread the game and I can see where the people of the RedCoyote wagon are coming from, but I still think there are just better lynch candidates. We shouldn't only keep an eye on existing wagons just because we're close to deadline.

Most of RedCoyote's scummy behaviour has already been pointed out, but I'd like to add 2 small cents.

angel 202 wrote:
Quag is getting some heat for this and i am totally convinced there is at least one scum on the wagon for his lynch and will be one of those pushing for it.

I love this statement to death. This is the kind of critical thinking that I think the game has been lacking.

Scum being on a wagon, whether a person would flip town or scum, seems obvious to me. This certainly isn't critical thinking imo.

I'm serious about my cruelty vote. It isn't a joke or anything like that, if that's what y'all may have been thinking.

I'd also be comfortable with a Mindgamer, Flare, Hoopla, or possibly a Nacho lynch.

You're OK with lynching half the player roster... I would expect a townie to put some more thought into determining who's town and who's scum.


On the reread I found that Hoopla is mainly asking questions. But she is also taking most of the initiative, which seems to be lacking a bit in this game. At the moment I think Hoopla is town.

I found it quite hard to get a read on Nachomamma8 but his replacement solves that problem.
Horrordude0215's player conclusions make no sense to me. Look at his The Tracker paragraph. He sums up a few facts, and concludes those with 'maybe town'. Why? He hasn't explained anything yet. He's a newbie though so flawed conclusions are not necessarily a scumtell in this case. What worries me more is his analysis of me. At first it looks like he is genuinely analysing me in ISO, but his analysis conveniently stops at the exact post I start participating in this game. Why? Why isn't he commenting on my actual content? His analysis looks more like a subconscious case to me.

The best part is this though:

Also, he hasn't interacted with Hoopla a whole lot, and she hasn't interacted with him at all. If he's mafia, there's a high chance Hoopla is as well. If he flips town, Hoopla's more likely to be the SK and just getting town points for opposing Mind's lynch.

In other words: If Mindgamer flips scum, we must eliminate Hoopla. If Mindgamer flips town, we must eliminate Hoopla.
What the heck?

If you're a townie, I hope you can understand why I had to push your wagon and I hope next time we play together you open with this kind of content.

'Mindgamer might be town but I'm keeping my vote on him because we don't have much time left'
This doesn't differ much from a policy lynch, does it. So I ask the following question to everyone on my bandwagon to prevent another lynch with easy excuses: Now that you have read my recent posts, do you keep your vote on me because you still think I am scum, or because time's up?

[The Tracker]

Mod: Replacing out.

Sorry all, too many games and I got too much stuff going on in RL. I'm not giving 100% and that's not fair to everyone else.

[horrordude0215]

Mod: Replacing out

I don't think that I should really be jumping into this game in the middle when I don't even have a newbie game under my belt. If I would have joined in the beginning, it would be a different story, but for now I must leave this game and focus on other games/RL

[AGar]

Wow.

Mod: Can we get an extension? Two more people just replaced out. This game has been littered with them.

Also:

Hoopla brought up Quagmire not reading his role PM, and started the wagon against him. However, she wasn't the main proponent of it. Scum points.

Uh? What do you mean? She pushed the wagon pretty much all day didn't she?

Not really. She pushed it, but the main proponents of it were myself, Cyberbob and Cruelty iirc.

[AGar]

Also, I will be present tomorrow afternoon. I've got Superbowl plans tonight I can't really get out of.

[Mindgamer]

Let's take a look at my bandwagon.
AGar: Has barely been posting lately.
Nachomamma8: Hasn't been posting lately and his replacement replaces out after one post.
The Tracker: Hasn't been posting lately and replaces out now.
Hitogoroshi: Keeps his vote on me because of time pressure.
EdFrost: The only genuine voter.
And Hoopla ready to lynch me only in fear of a no lynch...

Sorry, but this is bullshit.

Moderator: Same question as AGar. Could we get a deadline extension? It seems more than reasonable at this point.

[EdFrost]

Hoopla, you've modded a game with me in it. I've also been in games with AGar, The Tracker, RC, Cyberbob (ongoing, I think), faraday (mod abandoned and ongoings, I think), cruelty (replaced out of that game, though), col. cathart, flareonage and maybe hito, don't remember on that.

Mindgamer, if I'm the

only

genuine voter, then what are your reasons for voting me? Obv, it's no based off of the wagon on you, so you'll have to explain quite well what your reasoning for finding me scummy is.

As it is, your reasoning against me is the change in playstyle.

Guess what? If you read the thread well enough, you'd get an explanation of that quite easily. It's a very flimsy reason to be voting me, anyway.

Faraday calling me his #2 suspect without giving any real reasoning is, in of itself, suspect. Faraday, reasoning is tech.

~ F

[Faraday]

RAWR so is reading.

[cruelty]

What game was I in with you ed?

[Hoopla]

Mindgamer, if I'm the

only

genuine voter, then what are your reasons for voting me? Obv, it's no based off of the wagon on you, so you'll have to explain quite well what your reasoning for finding me scummy is.

I like this point.

[Cruciare]

Deadline is being extended by 3 days as I look for some more replacements, it is now in about 4 days and 5 hours: February 12, 8:30AM GMT/UTC.

Vote Count

Mindgamer (5)

hitogoroshi, AGar, horrordude0215, The Tracker, EdFrost

RedCoyote (3)

Hoopla, Faraday, cruelty

cruelty (1)

RedCoyote

EdFrost (1)

Mindgamer

Not Voting (0)

With ten alive, it takes six to stone to death.

[EdFrost]

RAWR so is reading.

I meant points against

me

specifically or if you find my entire play to be a bunch of null tells and are basing your case purely upon AM's play.

~ F

[Faraday]

RAWR so is reading.

I meant points against

me

specifically or if you find my entire play to be a bunch of null tells and are basing your case purely upon AM's play.

~ F

You seem to be implying this is a bad thing, but yeah sure I can go with the above to summarise it. Angelmouse was scummy and you've done nothing to change my mind.

[RedCoyote]

I was waiting for him to read it and form his own opinion of the wagon before answering.

Read: CYA

Come on, Faraday. Maybe I'd buy it if you said that you kind of skimmed the post and didn't notice the question, but if anything him admitting that he had not read it carefully would be a sign for you to, I don't know, assist him? Give a summary? Point to a post? Explain your reasoning? Anything?

I'm annoyed because people can't seem to see your scumminess, but I'm pretty sure that was clear the first time.

Yeah, "people".

As in people

not

voting me. As in Mindgamer.

Just to be clear, you do still think he's scummy don't you?

Absolutely I do. Here's the 64 thousand dollar question though: Do you think there were scum on Quagmire's wagon? If so, who is the most likely to be it (excluding me, obviously)?

---

Unwilling to lynch Quagmire, but happy to push the possibility that I might do the same thing tomorrow?

What do you mean?

I voted Quagmire...

---

You're OK with lynching half the player roster... I would expect a townie to put some more thought into determining who's town and who's scum.

Apparently, we have different approaches to the game. I see this as a political disagreement.

Additionally, just because I am comfortable with their lynch, doesn't necessarily mean I am "determining" them as scum. I know there aren't going to be 5 scum in a 12 player game.

Look at it this way, I think a townie should play the game as openly as they possibly can. By that I mean, there's no sense in concealing who it is you are not comfortable with, and who it is you are. The only reason I haven't given a scumscale yet in this game is because we've had a lot to talk about.

---

I don't think that I should really be jumping into this game in the middle when I don't even have a newbie game under my belt. If I would have joined in the beginning, it would be a different story, but for now I must leave this game and focus on other games/RL

There was a point or two I disagreed with you on, but I really, really liked your opening post. I'm positive those who disagreed with you liked your opening post, too. You obviously had read the game, and you gave clear, absolute positions on where you stood after doing so. One cannot ask for a better replacement than that. I really wish you would reconsider leaving us, because I can definitely see the enthusiasm in your post. Trust me, I've seen some rotten replacements before, and you are most certainly not one of them.

If you don't come back, then I hope Mindgamer is happy scaring you away.

---

Mindgamer, if I'm the

only

genuine voter, then what are your reasons for voting me? Obv, it's no based off of the wagon on you, so you'll have to explain quite well what your reasoning for finding me scummy is.

Like Hoopla said, this is a good point.

This coupled with Mindgamer's "I don't agree with the RC lynch... but here are some more scumtells to keep it going *wink wink*" have rubbed me the wrong way.

[Faraday]

I was waiting for him to read it and form his own opinion of the wagon before answering.

Read: CYA

Come on, Faraday. Maybe I'd buy it if you said that you kind of skimmed the post and didn't notice the question, but if anything him admitting that he had not read it carefully would be a sign for you to, I don't know, assist him? Give a summary? Point to a post? Explain your reasoning? Anything?

Not when he said he was going back to read it later, seems reasonable to let him go back and read it properly and then answer any questions he has, doesn't it.

Yeah, "people".

As in people

not

voting me. As in Mindgamer.

Lolwut? I realise we're talking about Mindgamer? You were the one who said I was confessing to him that I had no case or some such stuff, and I'm saying I'm frustrated that people aren't voting you. Obviously since he's a person, then he'd be included. But, thanks for clarifying that he's a person!!

Absolutely I do. Here's the 64 thousand dollar question though: Do you think there were scum on Quagmire's wagon? If so, who is the most likely to be it (excluding me, obviously)?

Well obviously I do think there was scum on the wagon; I'm voting you. If you mean was there more than one scum, then yeah, I'd say there probably was. Agar doesn't look bad for scum. There's some little things he's done that I'm unsure of, but it could be just his playstyle. Have you played with him before?

If you're asking me for some sort of wagon analysis then I can't help. I tend to think it pretty useless, in general (although I've seen DGB use it properly I'm not convinced it was any better than random). I'm sure there's at least one on the wagon by random chance alone after that who knows, really.

I don't think that I should really be jumping into this game in the middle when I don't even have a newbie game under my belt. If I would have joined in the beginning, it would be a different story, but for now I must leave this game and focus on other games/RL

There was a point or two I disagreed with you on, but I really, really liked your opening post. I'm positive those who disagreed with you liked your opening post, too. You obviously had read the game, and you gave clear, absolute positions on where you stood after doing so. One cannot ask for a better replacement than that. I really wish you would reconsider leaving us, because I can definitely see the enthusiasm in your post. Trust me, I've seen some rotten replacements before, and you are most certainly not one of them.

If you don't come back, then I hope Mindgamer is happy scaring you away.

Agreed here though. While I obviously didn't agree with everything he said it was nice to actually get a player who'd came in, read the thread, and posted his thoughts. Stay in the game plz.


Hito what are you going to do with your vote now that we have a deadline extension in lieu of the fact you believe Mindgamer to be town.