Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[curiouskarmadog]

Doc, Kon and I are the remaining neighbors. Also, i am interested to hear what people have to say about that R2R post. R2R, your thoughts on that post?

Bog, day 4, same old case?

Richard, explain why bog made your town list day 1 and WHY you still have him there. Also why do you think Bog has posted more content and contributed more to the game. You need to back this up with something. I am trying to figure if you really believe this or if you are trying to buddy up with someone.

[ready2rock]

R2R, your thoughts on that post?

what, the Dec 30 post that doc quoted?

It was page 5, is anyone going to get that much right on page 5?

For reference, all you had done at that point was post about CSL, diddin had 2 posts, and TheLonging was convincing us about random lynch and why it's such a good idea.

You are honestly telling me that I should have gotten a scum read on malp, who only had 2 posts that were both about RVS?

[ready2rock]

@ckd: 2 questions:
1. Since when did Doc become a neighbor?

2. Why do you not believe Richard/Dizzy's claim?

Other than that, I think I will remove you off of my scum list. I guess, looking back, that I mistook aggressive play for scummy play (that goes for ckd, EC, and Konowa).

In the future, I will look through people's meta before voting them for their aggressive style of play.

[ready2rock]

Sorry for triple posts and such, but I am posting from a crappy laptop because our computer is having problems.

Vote: CCARaven4

He needs to post something, I don't think I've seen him post all day. The things he has done to warrant this vote include lurking, relying on "gut feelings", finding every claim fake, talking about a "real JoaT" (iso 8), and voting based on one of their posts. He also never voted for anyone that flipped scum nor found them suspicious.

Also, to anyone who says I'm contradicting myself, I'm pretty much starting from scratch because I had no idea what else to do.

[pman5595]

@ckd: 2 questions:
1. Since when did Doc become a neighbor?

he was just addressing him

[DocPotter]

R2R, CKD was directing an answer at me, not adding me to that list.

There are scenario's around Dizzy/Richard that have one or both of them as scum/SK's. Not sure how likely, but I'm not going to consider them confirmed just yet.

The main point of quoting that post was how it seemed that the players you listed as most town turned out to be scum.

still catching up.

[curiouskarmadog]

R2R, any reason you are stretching SOOOOO much?

@ckd: 2 questions:
1. Since when did Doc become a neighbor?

Reading is awesome

Doc, Kon and I are the remaining neighbors.

let me try this again,

Bob asks Ted a question

While talking to Bob, Ted says.

Bob, Karen and I are married.

Please circle ONE answer.

a.) Karen and Ted are married.
b.) Bob, Karen, and Ted are married.
c.) Bob fucks Karen when Ted is working.
d.) Orgy to include dog.

2. Why do you not believe Richard/Dizzy's claim?

Just because someone says he can talk to God, doesnt mean I believe it. Where did I say I didnt believe Dizzy's claim? I can quote where I said, I dont think that Dizzy is scum, but to say she is confirmed is not true. I think I have explained twice WHY I think she is not confirmed.

further more, I have said that I dont think Richard is mafia...but I am not ruling he is not the SK.

r2r, are you skimming?

[curiouskarmadog]

actually.

vote ready2rock

I want to see how quickly I can get back on his scum list.

[RichardGHP]

richard..for the record, Navy flipped MAFIA Rb, not a scum RB..mafia would not know who the SK was, also the same night you were MAFIA Rbed there wasnt 3 kills...so in my book you are not cleared as a SK..

As a foreword: THIS IS NOT A NOOBCLAIM!

For the actual question itself, since when has there been a difference between the words "mafia" and "scum"?

also, Richard...what is the definition of meta? Not your definition...the definition .

Do you genuinely not know or do you want to see if I know? Either way, I'm not answering this.

[CCARaven4]

Alright, I'm here, and interested in this case that has been built against me. I have been lurking, it's what I do. I never post unless I have something semi-intelligent to say, which leads me to lurk a hell of a lot.

@r2r: What made you change your mind between last page and now that made you think I was scum? I freely admit to lurking, but it's not as if I'm lurking to avoid anything, and I address all questions toward me, as I am doing now. I was relying on gut feelings on D1, and my case that Richard was faking his JoaT claim was well put together, even though it was a complete crock, as pointed out by quite a few people. As for finding every claim fake, there was the JoaT claim, but what else? Other than that, I can remember TheLonging claiming VT and I didn't find that fake at all, in fact I was hesitant to hammer him on that day.

To address pman's case, I have quite a few issues with it.

In my 1283, I called Konowa as vanilla town, and you pointed me out to say that I have no idea that he is actually vanilla town. How can you be so sure that I have no idea what I'm talking about? There hasn't been a cop killed yet, so how can you be so sure that I am not the cop. I'm not claiming or even softclaiming being the cop, I'm just saying that you can't know whether I know or not.

As for my case on TheLonging, I obviously went back and forth quite a few times on whether he was scum or not, but I was right in the fact that I did choose to believe his VT claim on D1, even though I did come back and vote for him D3 after Konowa's case on him.

Those are the two votes on me that came with real thought, if anyone has any questions about this or anything else, I would be happy to answer them. As for Richard's vote on me, there isn't anything to address considering he didn't post anything about the vote.

[sorasgoof]

My suspicions of pman have started coming back lately. I was going to do an ISO read, but I don't have time. I was playing Halo all day, and if I don't do this right now, I probably won't have time tomorrow. There's just something about him I can't quite place, but I really think he's mafia. Therefore, I'll just say why I think he's suspicious.

I've been suspicious of pman since Day 1, as you all probably remember. However, I'd like to just point out a few of the reasons I was suspicious at that time.

-Said that the RVS was stupid, yet went on to place an RVS vote and then BLATANTLY bandwagons on Fugitive, who flipped town.
-He was the first (well, he thought he was) one to vote for TheLonging (flipped town). True, I did vote for TheLonging. But that was on Day 3, after TheLonging had begun to really start acting scummy. At the time pman voted for him, I was actually defending TheLonging.
-Eager to get a claim from TheLonging
-Very wishy-washy about his suspicions on TheLonging/Richard (sets-up a bandwagon scenario in which he could vote for either and not be considered scummy)
-In his 33rd post, in his attempt at explaining why he was being soft on TheLonging, he basically quotes a rule saying that we should have fun, and not be to serious. Seriously? Come on. You can be aggressive and still be within the boundaries of the game. Look at Parama, Pie, and others who fit that bill. Are they aggressive? Yes. Are they breaking rules? No. I'm getting this huge vibe from this post that you knew TheLonging was town, and you unvoted because of it. Also, the wagon on TheLonging had started to die down by this time, so I'm guessing you felt the need to jump off, too.
-That whole "TheLonging/Richard are new players/I'm not going to commit" scenario I originally voted for him for.

At this point, I'd like to take some time to address his 39th post. This post is FULL of BS, mostly aimed at me. Note: This is not an OMGUS at all. If he had done this on anyone else, I would've thought it was suspicious, not just because it was me.

Point 1:

-His first point is SO HYPOCRITICAL I can't even believe it. He says that I won't vote for Richard because I was reluctant to vote because of Richard's noobiness. SERIOUSLY? Like you'd been doing the whole time to that point? What happened to this:

-I FoSed TL and Richard because they were acting scummy. I didn't vote because I thought there was still the possibility that they were just new players.

I just can't believe how you called me out for this when YOU did it yourself.

Point 2:

COMPLETELY misconstrues my meaning. Absolutely scummy in my eyes. I never said I didn't find Richard scummy.

Points 3-4:

Another horrid paraphrase/false information. I said no one suspected Richard of attacking Navy until he told us he wasn't, but pman just couldn't leave it at that. He had to turn it into something scummy.

Points 5-10:

All almost exactly the same thing. Saying that I was giving the mafia ideas, etc. Completely illogical, considering I would have waited until night to give the mafia any sort of idea.

Last point:

Jumps on my bandwagon, almost an OMGUS (I had voted for him not too long before).

Let me get back on track, here.

-Constant attention on Malpascp (frustrated that your mafia buddy isn't participating?)
-His 49th post- No, I think YOU know who's mafia/roleblocker/etc. Says that I've been scummy the ENTIRE thread (later goes on to say I've only been scummy recently).
-54th post- Imagine the outbreak if you had voted with no reasoning? Oh, like how you did with me? I'm surprised there WASN'T an outbreak.
-Takes a two day break (convenient- suspicion had started to form on him. He needed to sink back into the shadows)
-States suspicion of diddin (ANOTHER townie)
States suspicion of DoS (ANOTHER townie)
-Votes Diddin (townie)
-Oh, too many votes on townies. He had to throw a mafia vote in there. (NavyCherub) Goes on to say "Please be scum, Navy." Come on. You knew already.

What brought him back into my view was his eagerness to jump on CCARaven at the beginning of Day 4. That was the last straw, honestly.

IN CONCLUSION

Hey, that basically was an ISO read. I hope you've read this far. I'm about 99 percent positive that you're either mafia or the SK. And you know what? It doesn't really matter. You've played an absolutely scummy game, and you've managed to stay under the radar until this point. Not anymore.

Vote: pman5595

[RichardGHP]

In my 1283, I called Konowa as vanilla town, and you pointed me out to say that I have no idea that he is actually vanilla town. How can you be so sure that I have no idea what I'm talking about? There hasn't been a cop killed yet, so how can you be so sure that I am not the cop. I'm not claiming or even softclaiming being the cop, I'm just saying that you can't know whether I know or not.

Oh God.

If you ARE the town cop, you just softclaimed it, and if you AREN'T, you are using cop-claim-WIFOM to your advantage and are thus scum. If you really are the cop, you would've outright claimed, and if you are VT, you had absolutely no inclination to bring that up. If you are any other rolem you had even LESS inclination to bring it up. In case I wasn't already,

unvote vote: CCARaven4

.

sora: I disagree with your vote. pman's play is consistent with that of a newb, and as someone who ISO'd him myself, I don't think he is scum. Regarding your last point: Nico and Parama lead wagons on diddin and DoS respectively, and all four of them flipped town. I don't find this a valid point to bring up here.

-Wagoning is a nulltell
-Most people were eager to hear TL's claim
-Not a scumtell, and unfair inference
-Fair enough
-If he had stayed on the TL wagon after it had died, he would've looked even more scum-like, so this is not a scumtell. "A scumtell, for reference..." Town and scum have equal motivation to jump off of a dying wagon.
-If you voted him for that D1, it was a pretty poor vote, since the "ABC and XYZ are newbs/I'm not going to commit" is NOT scum-like. If anything, it's pro-town.

-malp was lurking the hell out of this game, and he had a right to demand participation from him. He may have taken it over the top, but frustration with lurkers is generally a MAJOR town-tell.
- Both diddin and DoS were anti-town and he had a right to vote/FoS them.

Quoting this part because I don't like it at all.

Goes on to say "Please be scum, Navy." Come on. You knew already.

How the HELL do you know that he knew already? Answer this ASAP please.

FoS sorasgoof.

Lack of sora vote is attributed to Raven's scum-like actions shown at the top of the post.

[curiouskarmadog]

Do you genuinely not know or do you want to see if I know? Either way, I'm not answering this.

you said you metaed me...when i called you on it, you provided some crap about HOW YOU define meta...so I am trying to see if you lied or not....do not refuse the answer the question

[CCARaven4]

In my 1283, I called Konowa as vanilla town, and you pointed me out to say that I have no idea that he is actually vanilla town. How can you be so sure that I have no idea what I'm talking about? There hasn't been a cop killed yet, so how can you be so sure that I am not the cop. I'm not claiming or even softclaiming being the cop, I'm just saying that you can't know whether I know or not.

Oh God.

If you ARE the town cop, you just softclaimed it, and if you AREN'T, you are using cop-claim-WIFOM to your advantage and are thus scum. If you really are the cop, you would've outright claimed, and if you are VT, you had absolutely no inclination to bring that up. If you are any other rolem you had even LESS inclination to bring it up. In case I wasn't already,

unvote vote: CCARaven4

.

I specifically said I wasn't softclaiming it, I was bringing it up as a hole in pman's logic. If I really was the cop, I would not have out right claimed because I would still be able to help the town and would not want to get NK'd. If I were the cop, wouldn't I want people to infer that I'm the cop through my posts instead of having to claim it outright? If I were scum, pman wouldn't have called me out in the first place...just sayin'. And finally, if I were VT, why would I have no inclination to bring it up? There's pman trying to make a case against me, and I find a hole in his logic, why would I have no inclination to do that?

The only thing I agree with is that if I were any other role, such as a town doc or something, I wouldn't bring this up.

[RichardGHP]

Do you genuinely not know or do you want to see if I know? Either way, I'm not answering this.

you said you metaed me...when i called you on it, you provided some crap about HOW YOU define meta...so I am trying to see if you lied or not....do not refuse the answer the question

Your aggression is only solidifying my stance. This is really quite amusing.

Why so interested to know?

[curiouskarmadog]

Do you genuinely not know or do you want to see if I know? Either way, I'm not answering this.

you said you metaed me...when i called you on it, you provided some crap about HOW YOU define meta...

so I am trying to see if you lied or not

....do not refuse the answer the question

I explained why I had my title

you said you metaed me to try to understand my title and playstyle

when I inquired what games you metaed (to see if you really did so)

you came back with this bullshit about YOUR definition of meta.

you obviously know what the definition is...you wont answer because you know I have caught you in a lie...please explain, what is THE definition of meta.

[pman5595]

Do you genuinely not know or do you want to see if I know? Either way, I'm not answering this.

you said you metaed me...when i called you on it, you provided some crap about HOW YOU define meta...

so I am trying to see if you lied or not

....do not refuse the answer the question

I explained why I had my title

you said you metaed me to try to understand my title and playstyle

when I inquired what games you metaed (to see if you really did so)

you came back with this bullshit about YOUR definition of meta.

you obviously know what the definition is...you wont answer because you know I have caught you in a lie...please explain, what is THE definition of meta.

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100099

read. Have fun

More killing Raven, less arguing over Richard's meta.

[curiouskarmadog]

what does that game have to do with anything?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am not looking for Richard's meta, I am looking for how he defines it...jesus christ, people need to stop skimming.

[pman5595]

what does that game have to do with anything?

Richard's first game and only one before this. you can find out his meta there.

[curiouskarmadog]

pman, what exactly do you think my current beef is with Richard?

[pman5595]

pman, what exactly do you think my current beef is with Richard?

he acted REALLY weirdly at the end of yesterday, and refuses to define his meta.

He seems town to me, though.

[curiouskarmadog]

pman, what exactly do you think my current beef is with Richard?

he acted REALLY weirdly at the end of yesterday, and refuses to define his meta.

He seems town to me, though.

what? that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.. read again.

---

also mod, please prod bog

I prefer him not to miss another day.

[pman5595]

you think he is not cleared as serial killer because the night navy roleblocked him there were not three kills

But still, he has claimed joat and there isn't anything to refute that claim yet. He seems like he is trying to be pro-town, but not fully succeeding.

[curiouskarmadog]

again, not my current discussion with him.

also, Kon, would like to hear your thoughts please....you had an interesting post at the end of the night last night..would like to hear if your opinions have changed given the flip.