Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[Ellibereth]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox popsofctown
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 5 ) Raskol fishythefish Ellibereth farside22 mykonian
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 3 ) gayle Hoopla elvis_knits
Raskol ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 2 ) ojanen CSL
Total Votes ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

/Voodooed

[farside22]

Why dida Plum say 2/3 in that letter she sent over to us?
Why aren't there more votes on evil?

What letter?

[Ellibereth]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 75#2105775

[farside22]

Got it. I get the impression he means in the group of players he named there is 2/3 scum.
There are 3 scums in the game. So maybe 2 out of 3 or there is 2 or 3 scums in the group he believes are scum.

[Ojanen]

vote: Rhinox

Rhinox iso 10 seems like it could be a deliberate approach to the biggest wagon at that point (DGB).
Prior to it Rhinox has only mentioned DGB a little, in positive light for the early stance of myko's self meta question being scummy.

The meta evidence on DGB is pretty damning, unless DGB does this as town too. I've never played with DGB before and I'm too lazy to do the research myself, so anyone ready to level with me and come do DGB's defense? I've seen these go both ways though.

Ugh. This says nothing except that it's damning unless it isn't.

+echoes Fishy about DGB being scummy for not paying enough attention on who actually answered mykos question (though he originally liked DGB's stance on the scumminess of the question itself).
Next mention of DGB is straight up this:

DGB 709: I agree with you here. But I also find you very scummy. If I don't vote for CSL today, I'll be voting for you.

and

Also, I'm going to go ahead and ask what makes you think he is town?

If he were scum he would have bothered to BS a list of 5 names. If only not to incur the wrath of his buddies, ie, peer pressure. But he didn't bother. He's a free agent, he's town.

Using this logic, you are very scummy for the lists you've been throwing around all game.

Bad context reading btw, DGB asked specifically for 5 names and that's where the CSL townread referred to.

I figured out something thats been bothering me about DGB.
[...]

Very small thing, but the wording slightly bothers me due to its activeness. (I associate to a need to find a reason.)
And votes DGB to L-1.
I think elvis brings a good point in this post about the L-1 reasoning - it's basically again the same kind of porridge as the DGB meta being damning unless she does it as town too.

After mason claim and before N1, comes online twice with several posts and an unvote, but they are mostly teleporting theory - no new vote, not going back to earlier CSL vote even though he eyerolls at CSL's bandwagoning, no real comment other than that about ABR lynch that is happening although he earlier expressed not being suspicious of ABR.

Hi ellibereth nice to see you again. Why should we not lynch you on the spot, considering your former uni thought it better to be rid of you than gain a confirmed townie in DGB, aparently? Why did you vote CSL before reading the thread?

Plus there is definite U1 scum motivation for this.

[Fishythefish]

I really dislike snail's 1134. Because, up until then, I was pretty sure I'd struck scum. But that post really makes me doubt my read, both because I really believe it on a gut level, and it makes so little sense for scumsnail. At that point, snail was being voted by four people. Three of them had the same point against him, and then there was me. I'd made a case which had attracted no support, and a fair amount of criticism. Why on earth would scumsnail roll over and basically say that I had a case? Going after my case is such a natural play there.

unvote

. I don't believe that post came from scum.

vote: pops

- since he's scum and all.

[Fishythefish]

Deadline is in 9 days. Since the OU has lynched, we cannot afford to wait that long - that will mean we have more scummy players here than the OU does at all times. I think we should be trying hard to get a lynch within the next few days.

[popsofctown]

vote: Rhinox

Rhinox iso 10 seems like it could be a deliberate approach to the biggest wagon at that point (DGB).
Prior to it Rhinox has only mentioned DGB a little, in positive light for the early stance of myko's self meta question being scummy.

The meta evidence on DGB is pretty damning, unless DGB does this as town too. I've never played with DGB before and I'm too lazy to do the research myself, so anyone ready to level with me and come do DGB's defense? I've seen these go both ways though.

Ugh. This says nothing except that it's damning unless it isn't.

+echoes Fishy about DGB being scummy for not paying enough attention on who actually answered mykos question (though he originally liked DGB's stance on the scumminess of the question itself).
Next mention of DGB is straight up this:

DGB 709: I agree with you here. But I also find you very scummy. If I don't vote for CSL today, I'll be voting for you.

and

Also, I'm going to go ahead and ask what makes you think he is town?

If he were scum he would have bothered to BS a list of 5 names. If only not to incur the wrath of his buddies, ie, peer pressure. But he didn't bother. He's a free agent, he's town.

Using this logic, you are very scummy for the lists you've been throwing around all game.

Bad context reading btw, DGB asked specifically for 5 names and that's where the CSL townread referred to.

I figured out something thats been bothering me about DGB.
[...]

Very small thing, but the wording slightly bothers me due to its activeness. (I associate to a need to find a reason.)
And votes DGB to L-1.
I think elvis brings a good point in this post about the L-1 reasoning - it's basically again the same kind of porridge as the DGB meta being damning unless she does it as town too.

After mason claim and before N1, comes online twice with several posts and an unvote, but they are mostly teleporting theory - no new vote, not going back to earlier CSL vote even though he eyerolls at CSL's bandwagoning, no real comment other than that about ABR lynch that is happening although he earlier expressed not being suspicious of ABR.

Hi ellibereth nice to see you again. Why should we not lynch you on the spot, considering your former uni thought it better to be rid of you than gain a confirmed townie in DGB, aparently? Why did you vote CSL before reading the thread?

Plus there is definite U1 scum motivation for this.

Rhinox is town.


DGB is going to ruin this game. Everyone is going to lynch eachother based on varying reactions to the town aligned, anti-town DGB, even though few of these reactions are alignment correlated.

Someone help me with my physics homework so I can come to this thread for more than 2 minutes.

[Ellibereth]

Why type of physics? I can't do anything past stuff on the AP C.
I also need to go take a look at pops again. Evil is still scum.

[Ojanen]

Rhinox is town.

Why?

[CSL]

Ugh. I come back from losing my internet all afternoon, and I see a smorgasbord of posts. Need to catch up...

[Gayle]

Too bad Fishy and Evilsnail didn't use all that time they spent arguing to hunt far more obvious scum: "Lurk and Lie" CSL,"Wagon Hop" Pops, and "Respond to everything with a flurry of misleading arguments" Myko.

The people voting evilsnail for Elli's point are being ridiculous. Why do you guys keep going for this "scumslip" nonsense? Elli made a similar point about Jack, and look what happened. Please don't lynch over such a stupid reason.

[popsofctown]

physics took too much of my energy and time for me to feel like posting very well.


Rhinox is town because he's scumhunting, a lot, and has generally been reading pretty accurate.


And OJ's case is crap. iso 10 is a call for more info on DGB's meta. Yes, every single post that isn't "I investigated her last night and the mod told me she was scum" is ultimately "she is scum unless she isn't". Rhinox was just pointing out what info was necessary for a meta read to be conclusive.

Rhinox's logic is totally correct about DGB later on. DGB asserts that CSL is townie because he doesn't list 5 players he thinks seems townie. That suggests that DGB thinks listing townreads is scummy.

Since DGBs lists have included several townreads all game, she should have seemed scummy by her own logic.

Then the end of Oj's post is more info than analysis. I don't see why Oj should be topping everyone's townlists right now. Or any of the other players with far less actual content than me that are getting free passes just because when I do present reads in this thread, people don't agree with me and think that merits a vote.

[mykonian]

Ojanen, that looks promising.

vote Rhinox

.

Rhinox, why again was your catchup post for 80% about me or the question I asked?

Pops, Rhinox is someone who has no problem playing town. It are the small things that matter, not the overall impression, you probably won't find him with that.

Gayle, I don't mislead. Please quote it. And posting is not a scumtell.

Fishy, what was that vote?

I still am up for a Raskol-lynch. He won't get away lurking, but last time it wasn't too popular. I think he is a very good lynch.

[Ojanen]

And OJ's case is crap. iso 10 is a call for more info on DGB's meta. Yes, every single post that isn't "I investigated her last night and the mod told me she was scum" is ultimately "she is scum unless she isn't". Rhinox was just pointing out what info was necessary for a meta read to be conclusive.

He simultaneously said the meta seemed damning. And this call for info as you call it seemed to be half the reason DGB was the second scummiest person in thread (the other being Fishy's point that she hadn't payed enough attention to who had answered myko's question despite finding that a scummy action).

Rhinox's logic is totally correct about DGB later on. DGB asserts that CSL is townie because he doesn't list 5 players he thinks seems townie. That suggests that DGB thinks listing townreads is scummy.
Since DGBs lists have included several townreads all game, she should have seemed scummy by her own logic.

No it's not. DGB asserts that CSL is townie because he didn't list 5 townies

as a response

for DGB asking for 5 townies.

Then the end of Oj's post is more info than analysis.

I didn't think I needed to spell out more. Having taking the position DGB=scummy ABR=not suspicious earlier and then being around to unvote and talk teleportation after the claim but not really commenting about ABR lynch going on is something I find to have a scum motivation of staying out of a convenient lynch's way without getting tarnished.

[Fishythefish]

My vote for pops:

As I said in my last post, I dislike pops's play in the DGB wagon. I don't like the reasons he gave for voting either time he voted DGB, and I don’t like the way he hopped off the wagon in the middle, again with fairly bad reasoning. I find it difficult to believe pops was being honest about his opinions on DGB – much more like he was looking for excuses to hop on that wagon. Pops hasn’t given many votes this game, nor a huge number of cases, and not believing one of them was earnest is a significant thing.

My gut says funny things as I read pops’s posts. It doesn’t feel like his agenda is to find and lynch scum, but nor does it feel like he’s just attacking people to look good. The closest I can come is it feels like he is disagreeing people for its own sake. I don’t really know what to make of this – it could be another way to try and look protown, or it could just be a playstyle thing. This isn't part of my case.

I don’t much like pop’s reactions to the wagon on him. The “DGB is going to ruin this game” line is strawmanning the case on him by saying it’s based on a dead and controversial player, when AFAIC that simply isn’t true. Then there’s “don’t lynch me, I post stuff. Lynch the lurkers” – which is a bit horrible because there’s no particular reason to think the lurkers are scum.

Incidentally, unreadable players whose flip wouldn’t tell us much and who don’t help the town are pretty good choices for teleporting, if you don’t have any mega scumreads.

@Hoopla: who is scum? Why are you posting so briefly, and not giving us reads?

@other people: is this usual for Hoopla?
In particular @pops: you are advocating the policy lynch of CSL for being unreadable. Do you find Hoopla more readable than CSL? If so, how do you read him?

Rhinox case is ok. Pretty poor posts on DGB, and deadline activity certainly fits well with scum. He goes on my scumlist, which looks now goes pops>CSL>Rhinox. I'd settle for any of these lynches if it got us a quick lynch.

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla: who is scum? Why are you posting so briefly, and not giving us reads?

I don't know. I'm confused.

I have a gut feeling CSL is town, and I don't think DGB's wagon was town-driven. I want to look through vote counts for Day 1, but Zoraster is one of those annoying mods that makes you click every single page for them, which is annoying me because the site takes me a long time to load sometimes.

I want to contribute some thoughts on that when I have time after work. But I read your post about pops, and I can't grasp all of the references, but I think you sound sincere, and I want to help you by being on Pops' wagon.

[elvis_knits]

I don't really care for the evilsnail wagon. I still think he's town from my read yesterday and I don't see him making a slip at all. When you are absent from the site and come back, you don't always play the same. Personally when I was away, I forgot so much that I felt like a noob. So I am not surprised about what evilsnail said, and I don't htink it's any kind of slip.

Furthermore, let's not let ellibereth take too much control of this town. We know that atleast the teleporter of the other universe thought he was THE SCUMMIEST player in the entire universe. So. Let's use a bit of caution on Elli.

About Hoppla - she's usually pretty vocal and aggressive. But I'm not sure she's caught up and stuff yet, so that could account for decreased activity. She needs to step it up though in the near future.

About Rhinox - this is probably a good wagon. I realized I didn't like Rhinox after looking at his dgb vote, so I understand where this wagon is coming from and think it's good. However, pops needs to die, so I'm voting pops.

@e_k: If I didn't feel way too strongly about ABRscum yesterday, who should I have voted? One of the people at L-massive that I really thought was scummy? Should I have cut to the chase and voted NoLynch? Get real.

You should have been actively looking for scum, and been pushing for somebody you thought was scum to get lynched. Instead you were waiting for the scum to come to you, and when it didn't happen you went "oh well, vote dgb or abr or whatever you people have decided." You should have been proactive. You weren't.

[mykonian]

Last post of hoopla feels scummy. Can't exactly say why always, but it seems a very conveniant post for scum. IGMEOY. Lets see what happens next with hoopla.

BTW, are we again going to try to fill the thread till deadline, or are we going to try to lynch based on the 47 pages we have? Several people have already posted that (myk's) postcount is a problem for reading the game. With teleports coming, who all need to read the game, and with hoopla, could it maybe be an idea if we for once didn't wait for the deadline?

And I hate the one who now brings up the "more time more information" thing. More information yes, but even more reading. The information is harder to find.

[zoraster]

but Zoraster is one of those annoying mods that makes you click every single page for them, which is annoying me because the site takes me a long time to load sometimes.

I'll start posting an updated vote count when I update as well if it helps you out.

[zorastermod]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox popsofctown
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 3 ) Raskol Ellibereth farside22
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 4 ) gayle Hoopla elvis_knits fishythefish
Raskol ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 2 ) ojanen mykonian
Not Voting ( 1 ) CSL
Total Votes ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

[elvis_knits]

Mykonian, why are you rushing the lynch?

Deadline is nine days away. I see no reason why we should rush. I also don't think that we should draw things out for no reason. I agree that more isn't always better, but I don't see a reason to cut off discussion now. And I could care less about teleports having a hard time reading the thread. I'm not going to cut of discussion to help somebody catchup who may very well be scum (that's what the OU is trying to do, send us scum). Even if the teleport is not scum, we can't help it if the thread is long. We are a chatty bunch! Too bad.

I think we should just lynch when we are ready. Things haven't stagnated yet. There are still people who need to contribute more.

[mykonian]

Mykonian, why are you rushing the lynch?

Deadline is nine days away. I see no reason why we should rush. I also don't think that we should draw things out for no reason. I agree that more isn't always better,

but I don't see a reason to cut off discussion now.

And I could care less about teleports having a hard time reading the thread. I'm not going to cut of discussion to help somebody catchup who may very well be scum (that's what the OU is trying to do, send us scum). Even if the teleport is not scum, we can't help it if the thread is long. We are a chatty bunch! Too bad.

I think we should just lynch when we are ready. Things haven't stagnated yet. There are still people who need to contribute more.

a: ...
b: I am not cutting off, I am asking for a more constructive (as in, with the lynch as goal) arguing and voting. Most information comes out of the final part of the day anyway, when the game is more serious. Then there comes real pressure on the scum.

And this is the standard response. Why are you rushing? I am not. Nothing I say says: "we should lynch now!". What I said was "lets work towards a lynch now!". The last makes the town a lot more productive, since there are way too many wagons now that could be more or less succesful, and in the end, it is usually the wagon that was in the spotlights the last that will become the lynch. If we start earlier with finding the correct lynch, in stead of having to haste with a short deadline, we should be more succesful.

Lets put my vote with my words:

unvote vote Raskol

his disappearance is just too conveniant, after there was a good case on him. I would be very happy if he got lynched.

[elvis_knits]

OMG...

You said:

BTW, are we again going to try to fill the thread till deadline, or are we going to try to lynch based on the 47 pages we have?

This totally sounds like you either want us to lynch ASAP, or wait until deadline. As if those are the only options. It's an artificial push to speed up the game, when the game IS NOT stagnated. Yeah there is more than one wagon right now. Who cares? That's good. It's not as if people are immovable in their votes and we can't reach a consensus. People are pressuring who they are suspicious of, and that's a good thing.

Meanwhile, you are complaining that our pressure is spread too far on too many wagons and then you go and jump off one small wagon to go after somebody with no votes! GOOD JOB doing the opposite of what you're telling people to do.

BTW, you've changed your vote from evilsnail to rhinox to raskol all in like the last page. Which wouldn't bother me if you had had a response from evilsnail or rhinox. Neither of these people have posted since you voted them. What is changing your mind enough to keep switching?

[mykonian]

see the word "try". We are now not trying to lynch, we are gathering information.

And Elvis, I know. This is my problem, I have no clear direction, and I somewhat hoped to solve this. I just have too many people that could be scum.

and I switch because I see the cases, but my head suspect (raskol) is not interesting to the rest. I'd rather get some bandwagon there going, but I can't get that to work. My vote shows where my suspicions are. I rarely use FoS's (although I did it here sometimes) because people just read over them, and a vote is taken more serious. And people can call you on them, which can hardly be done with a FoS. So it makes it easier to check what I'm doing.