Mafia 109 - A Glitch in time - Game Over!

[Yosarian2]

One death. CSL. Unlikely scum. A game of this size would unlikely have a single NK when combining: (1) dim probability of multiple scumteams; (2) vigs and (3) SKs. Also, read the scum QTs in Kingdom Hearts where being a miller afforded me some unexpected longevity; all the scums have vowed to make sure I be very dead by Day 2 in all future games. My DGB title is "mafia pinata" for a reason. So in all probability I was the NK and it failed.

Mmm. Yeah, it's certainly possible CSL was killed by a vig.

The other possibility is that the scum were defending CSL yesterday and wanted him dead and town so they could both get credit for that and discredit the people attacking CSL yesterday. Which exactly matches Clergy's play today.

[Maemuki]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but DGB, how do you know that the NK failed? o.o

I still say that that Nik attack was a bus.

One death. CSL. Unlikely scum. A game of this size would unlikely have a single NK when combining: (1) dim probability of multiple scumteams; (2) vigs and (3) SKs. Also, read the scum QTs in Kingdom Hearts where being a miller afforded me some unexpected longevity; all the scums have vowed to make sure I be very dead by Day 2 in all future games. My DGB title is "mafia pinata" for a reason. So in all probability I was the NK and it failed.

There may be bus'ing on the wagon but it sure didn't come from me. I think after we lynch 3 scums in a row you will change your mind about that ;-)

> That was my theory. Just not as detailed. :D

> I was talking about MaB.

[Drippereth]

The other possibility is that the scum were defending CSL yesterday and wanted him dead and town so they could both get credit for that and discredit the people attacking CSL yesterday. Which exactly matches Clergy's play today.

In theory that's possible. In practice, that's the weirdest reason for scum to NK a player in the history of the universe.

First of all, CSL-town is an asset to the scum. Leave him alive and the town is constantly distracted with fantasies of policy-lynches, with people from left and right trying to meta him, with dubious success, that can later be exploited.

Second, no one has even mentioned that players should gain or lose credit for CSL's death.

Third, nobody on this site ever tries to extract the layers of WIFOM in a NK.

Fourth, as scum you NK a threat, whether active or latent. CSL is not a threat.

[Ythan]

Can the issue of whether or not CSL was a threat be separated from the problem of the WIFOM of people who interacted with him yesterday?

[Drippereth]

Can the issue of whether or not CSL was a threat be separated from the problem of the WIFOM of people who interacted with him yesterday?

???

This question is moot, suffice to say that no one has tried to EXPLOIT the fact that some people defended CSL while others clamored for his death. Had the mafia NK'd CSL for the purposes of exploiting the WIFOM that would follow the revelation of his alignment, they would have brought it up.

It wasn't brought up.

[Ythan]

I brought it up. I MEAN

But seriously, I was thinking that he wasn't the most threatening player to the mafia and then had second thoughts when I saw Yos's post incorporating the possibility of mafia killing the townie they had defended to confirm him.

[Yosarian2]

In theory that's possible. In practice, that's the weirdest reason for scum to NK a player in the history of the universe.

Granted. It probably was a vig kill. That's just the only possible motive I could come up with for it being a scum kill.

Second, no one has even mentioned that players should gain or lose credit for CSL's death.

Not for his death, but if CSL wasn't confirmed town, Clergy wouldn't have been able to make this attack:

imho, I think scum saw CSL as a chance to get a mislynch. The other wagon was a probably town-fuelled charge that happened to hit scum, so they needed a targetto switch suspicion to and quick. CSL was the best choice, because he looks so filthily scummy.

The two who were pushing CSL the most were Yos2 and Para.

Note that me and para were both people who highly suspected Clergy, and that Clergy would want to discredit.

Meh. As I put this on paper, I'm actually realizing it's even more flimsy a theory then I thought before, heh. I guess we should assume it was a vig kill until we have reason to believe otherwise.

[Drippereth]

I brought it up. I MEAN

To tell you the truth I've been skipping a lot of your posts; you seem to lose the forest from the trees and I want to keep focused on a goal.

But seriously, I was thinking that he wasn't the most threatening player to the mafia and then had second thoughts when I saw Yos's post incorporating the possibility of mafia killing the townie they had defended to confirm him.

All this does, in my mind, is to increase the probability that you're scum.

However my goal today is to ensure the lynch of MaB/Pulindar since I'm MORE convinced that he is scum, than I was with Nikanor yesterday. Please do not distract from this important goal of lynching MaB/Pulindar by making other players want to lynch YOU instead. I hate that.

[Haylen]

The I Bought a Big Potato Vote Count

Parama -
Nachomamma -
McZombie -
Maemuki -
Ythan - Weaboo, Pulindar, camn
Pulindar - Ythan, Drippereth, Maemuki
Dramonic - SpyreX
camn -
SpyreX -
A Clergyman with a Hoop - Parama, Kmd, Yosarian2, Nachomamma8, Anon ~
Drippereth -
Yosarian2 - A Clergyman with a Hoop
Anon -
KMD -
Weaboo -

Not Voting - McZombie, Dramonic

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, Camn's player analysis thing.

Parama, I disagree on. He's been scummy for most of the game.

Nacho lurked all Day 1, but has been back (kind of like me) and I see him as town based on Day 2.

McZombie, I have no read on.

I disagree on Mae. She is scummy.

Ythan, I disagree on. He's scummy too.

Pulindar, I keep flipping on...

Dramonic, meh. Hard to say. I almost want to say town just because so many other people are scummy.

Camn, obvtown, I agr.....wait a second. I see what you did there. Nah, but really, I don't see you as scummy.

Spy, I agree with you. He looks town, but he's a good scum player so who knows.

Hoop/Serial, I disagree with you on again. Obvscum.

Drip, I agree on. Town.

Yos is someone who I think I read very well and I think he's town.

Anon, I disagree again. He's kinda scummy.

Kmd, I agree with you on. He should have the time to contribute more to this game. And I think he will try his best to improve that.

Weaboo, town.

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On Page 28, Parama uses his hammer vote to defend himself. I don't like that. Scum bus, especially when a lynch looks inevitible.

------------------

I suppose when you're pushing for a lynch on someone you suspect you'll pony up more info. I can wait until then.

I might, but certain people are spamming the thread so much that my number one priority in this game is keeping up with it.

-------------------

Page 30, Serial/Hoop trying to use meta to get Elli to get DGB to get us to see them as town is a little off.

[Drippereth]

Not for his death, but if CSL wasn't confirmed town, Clergy wouldn't have been able to make this attack:

imho, I think scum saw CSL as a chance to get a mislynch. The other wagon was a probably town-fuelled charge that happened to hit scum, so they needed a targetto switch suspicion to and quick. CSL was the best choice, because he looks so filthily scummy.

The two who were pushing CSL the most were Yos2 and Para.

HOW ON EARTH DID I CONTRIVE TO MISS THAT POST???????????????

OMG.

Look I don't care anymore which one goes first. We need to lynch-then-vig MaB/Pulindar and Clergyhoop. Bang! Bang! Two scums down.

[Maemuki]

I disagree on Mae. She is scummy.

Thanks for not listening to me~

[Kmd4390]

I disagree on Mae. She is scummy.

Thanks for not listening to me~

If I missed something, quote it while I'm still online.

[Maemuki]

Page 10, Mae is "relieved" that Nik-scum isn't dead. Hmm.

Answered.

Page 9, Mae's pissed off reaction to CSL's vote looks kinda fake.

I fail to see how this is a good attack.

Read moar.

[Pulindar]

First I'd like to say

I suppose when you're pushing for a lynch on someone you suspect you'll pony up more info. I can wait until then.

I think my irony meter just broke

I was literally laughing for a good five minutes. And it's visible to any eye Ythan.



Camn, I hope you don't mine, but I'm mimicking your post here. Oh, I see KMD did as well.

Camn, I don't think you've been lurking at all, Ythan has 7 times as many posts as you. He has 209, you have 29. Oh, and Ythan has 27% of all the posts in this game at last

Anon

Town lean. He has his opinion, I don't agree with it at all, but he states it pretty well.
more importantly he's willing to understand that others may have differing opinions, and while he's willing to vote them because of it he's staying quite controlled. Excellent play.
Still I haven't read enough of him, or seen him before so I need to get a better feel.

A Clergyman with a Hoop

I like camn's point, pointing out breadcrumbs is scummy, but still I like ClergyHoop.

Good defenses, reasonable logic. Town lean for sure.

Camn

obvtown

.
Every statement she gives has a reason.
every reason has evidence.
And she always waits for responses.

Dramonic

There are times when policy lynches help town.
Are they always a good thing? no, definitely not. But sometimes they do help.
For instance I'd bet that killing Ythan would make many more town post, yourself and Anon included. There would be 9 pages less. that's alot less to go through, and would make it alot easier to find the real arguments. I would like to hear more from you, right now I have a null tell, but I did like your last post.

Drippereth

Null tell. well, actually I have extreme reasons to think he's town, and extreme reasons to think he's scum.
One of the worst things she does is constantly dismiss every case against her without actually giving explanation. to my knowledge she hasn't even given a real case against ClergyHoop, or myself. Though she does have a better one against me than against Clergy.

I'll sum up her cases from my perspective:

ClergyHoop

I'm going to say that I know what you're thinking, swear as much as I can, and just make it really sound scummy. No, I won't address the points. I mean she said ClergyHoop is scummy for defending... WTF defense is not inherently scummy.

Against

Pulindar/MaB

Won't discuss case on MaB: Dismisses Meta, saying that the defnse I have is one SHE used as scum in another game, when I'm saying the Attack She's using is the same one her and her scum partner used in another game. completely dismisses the meta, and does not explain in any way why it might be false.
To answer her questions: Ythan was rushing others to lynch me ever since I signed onto the game. Wasn't pushing it nearly as hard until I had an opinion.
Voting heavily was misworded. I meant pushing so hard with one single vote against someone, who while they did seem scummy later, did n't seem scummy at all when the pressure was first applied.

Your most recent posts make you seem scummier to me, but I'm trying to decide whether you're misinformed, overzealous, town. or a smart scummy player with a good tactic.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but DGB, how do you know that the NK failed? o.o

I still say that that Nik attack was a bus.

One death. CSL. Unlikely scum. A game of this size would unlikely have a single NK when combining: (1) dim probability of multiple scumteams; (2) vigs and (3) SKs. Also, read the scum QTs in Kingdom Hearts where being a miller afforded me some unexpected longevity; all the scums have vowed to make sure I be very dead by Day 2 in all future games. My DGB title is "mafia pinata" for a reason. So in all probability I was the NK and it failed.

There may be bus'ing on the wagon but it sure didn't come from me. I think after we lynch 3 scums in a row you will change your mind about that

This reply happened while I was posting, I like it. I don't agree with who you say are scum, but to me it sorta makes you seem townier. Still I don't think the NK failed. If anything I thought maybe everyone went for a kill on CSL, and if there is a Vig there's a pretty good chance as well that they decided not to kill anyone.

KMD

You need to post more. I understand how difficult Ythan is making it to find something of substance to vote on, but still, you do need to post more. You have done more than many though so... I'm willing to wait until you have something good to add.

I see that you posted in the mean time. Thank you.

Maemuki

Is thinking for herself, yet not pushing too hard. staying back, but waiting for a good time to strike. Tactful play.
Slight town read.

McZombie

Needs to be Replaced Immediately. 2 posts in the entire game? come on.

Nachomamma

one of the best players I've ever seen. Post more please.

Parama

Null tell. Seems to be trying to fight the drip/ythan fire with some of his own, but isn't nearly as effective at it. Make more meaningful posts please.

Pul

Town that's going to get lynched soon, but that stated his opinions and will be rewarded by town actually taking serious looks at other players and at his arguments. (though it seems ClergyHoop may beat me.

I Know everyone says MaB was scummy, and I see the reasons that Camn presented (and agree with her) but if not for that would you think this spot was scummy?
Yes this is a spot, scumminess doesn't disappear, but I'm curious as to the responses.
In other words I'm asking Drip, Ythan, and whomever else wants to reply if it seems that I personally am playing a scummy game?

SpyreX

He makes some funny posts, but I have no real opinion on scumminess or town. Null Tell

Weaboo

Null Tell

Yosarian2

obvtown

.
I think he has the most comprehensive posts of the game.

I've read a few of his games as they were going and was able to read him then (Haylen's first mod of a newbie game for instance where he was scum) I knew by day two for sure.

Ythan

I want to say scum, but he could just be the second worst town player I've ever seen.

I'm at L-5
Ythan is at L-5 (where my vote is)
ClergyHoop is at L-3

I'll address more recent posts in a minute.

[Kmd4390]

Page 10, Mae is "relieved" that Nik-scum isn't dead. Hmm.

Answered.

Page 9, Mae's pissed off reaction to CSL's vote looks kinda fake.

I fail to see how this is a good attack.

Read moar.

Answered where? Quote it because I scanned you in ISO and didn't see it.

Faking anger with a quickhammer is scummy and that's what it looked like to me.

[Maemuki]

Faking anger with a quickhammer is scummy and that's what it looked like to me.

*shrugs* Then it's no use arguing with that, I can't change the way you see things.

Answered where? Quote it because I scanned you in ISO and didn't see it.

I'll repeat:

would it be good if there was a quicklynch? No. Because:

a. if he was town, it would be a wasted day;
b. if he was scum, we wouldn't have any clues that pointed to his scumbuddies.

May I suggest a closer look, Kmd?

[Ythan]

Ythan

I want to say scum, but he could just be the second worst town player I've ever seen.

Do you have anything that doesn't sound like OMGUS whinging?

[Kmd4390]

*shrugs* Then it's no use arguing with that, I can't change the way you see things.

Fair enough. Although you could try to explain your stance. But that would probably result in me just elaborating on the same thing and would be a big spamfest that doesn't accomplish anything and we don't need that.

I'll repeat:

would it be good if there was a quicklynch? No. Because:

a. if he was town, it would be a wasted day;
b. if he was scum, we wouldn't have any clues that pointed to his scumbuddies.

May I suggest a closer look, Kmd?

Ok, reminding myself that this is about you being "relieved" that Nikscum was still alive.

a. Not true. Look at who quicklynched and separate townvotes from scumvotes.
b. Not true. Look at whose votes were obvnonbussing and who defended/avoided Nik.

Yeah, I need to take a closer look at the end of Day votes. I'll get around to it.

[Ythan]

I don't see the benefit in extending the day unless there is something specific that needs doing.

[Maemuki]

Ok, reminding myself that this is about you being "relieved" that Nikscum was still alive.

a. Not true. Look at who quicklynched and separate townvotes from scumvotes.
b. Not true. Look at whose votes were obvnonbussing and who defended/avoided Nik.

Yeah, I need to take a closer look at the end of Day votes. I'll get around to it.

Dear Kmd,

you did realize that even then I didn't take my vote off Nik, didn't you?

And that's true, but it's much harder to do. Besides, links are easier to see if there was more conversation.

@ Pulindar lol at your Nacho read. He's defending you, so he's town. Yup. That makes complete sense.

[Yosarian2]

For the record, KMD, while I thought Nik was probably scum, I was a bit relieved myself to see that he didn't actually get quickhammered without having a chance to claim, especally since the way CSL tried to do it made me think CSL was scum.

[Ythan]

I can vouch as well for relief at my own suspect not being quick hammered.

[Kmd4390]

Dear Kmd,

you did realize that even then I didn't take my vote off Nik, didn't you?

Ok, so why were you so pissed that CSL appeared to have hammered if you left your vote there?

And that's true, but it's much harder to do. Besides, links are easier to see if there was more conversation.

Links? To what?

---------------------

Yos, fair enough. I can see that. The thing that bothered me though was the the way it sounded. Seemed fake. Genuine anger is one thing, fake reactions are another.

[Maemuki]

Links? To what?

To scum?

Ok, so why were you so pissed that CSL appeared to have hammered if you left your vote there?

Once you hammer, there's no unvoting. Unless I'm mistaken.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall. I ALREADY EXPLAINED! *headdesk*