SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata (Game over!)

[sykedoc]

Vote: Kairyuu

<3

[sykedoc]

Unvote Kairyuu

I need some time to think. I just caught up on everything that happened between now and my last post and I'm sufficiently confused.

[sykedoc]

Unvote Kairyuu

I need some time to think. I just caught up on everything that happened between now and my last post and I'm sufficiently confused.

If you are caught up, who do you think is scummy?

Honestly, I don't. My theory having been in B-Mod games before is... its highly likely at least ONE person with a PR is mafia.

At this point nobody has solidified themselves as scum or town yet.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: also I have no PR... yet.

[sykedoc]

At this point nobody has solidified themselves as scum or town yet.

You have zero reads?

I've found that many of my first day leads are completely negated by day 2.
I just don't get good reads on people initially.

[sykedoc]

At this point nobody has solidified themselves as scum or town yet.

You have zero reads?

I've found that many of my first day leads are completely negated by day 2.
I just don't get good reads on people initially.

So what, you arent going to do anything today then? If you are better after day one you should just replace into games.

What gives you the impression I'm not going to do anything? I'll converse and dig for information when I think of a good way to do so but most first day votes are baseless or based on something small and insignificant.

[sykedoc]

Sim tenho uma restrição de poste.

Portugese? I think...

[sykedoc]

Sim tenho uma restrição de poste.

Portugese? I think...

Yes its portugese, now please answer my question

I did. You didn't read it I assume.

[sykedoc]

If its absolutely necessary I can give you first day reads. But I've found that often, peoples reads on day 1 lead to villagers getting killed for stupid reasons.

[sykedoc]

If its absolutely necessary I can give you first day reads. But I've found that often, peoples reads on day 1 lead to villagers getting killed for stupid reasons.

Well I was hoping that wasnt the answer

You are either going to scumhunt or be the D1 lynch. You can not have zero reads on anyone at this point in the game. What you are saying basically is pre-emptively giving reasoning for a mislynch because 'you arent good with D1 reads' and 'they will change D2'.

unvote
vote sykedoc

Contribute

It will not end well if you crusade against me.

[sykedoc]

I find it stupid reasoning to vote for someone because their policies do not agree with yours.

You're essentially saying: I don't like the way you play, so I'm voting for you.

And yeah, I can have zero reads. It depends on your definition of a read.
I believe a read is a valid suspicion. I have none to this point. Anything I do have is based off something i do not consider substantial.

If you can't live with that you can try to lynch me but again. It won't end well.

[sykedoc]

Well I've been in 2 or 3 games with a bunch of PRs and I've helped run one. In each there was a mafia with a PR. Its just the odds that the mod wont just give PRs to town.

Theres also a possibility that one of them is made up.

We have someone talking in french and one in Portugese. It is possibly that one of these is fake.

The others haven't given me reason to suspect them yet. I was throwing that idea out there on basis of personal experience but I haven't seen suspicious enough behavior from them to say that they look scummy beyond what I said above about the possibility of a fake PR.

[sykedoc]

Threats dont work well hun. Try scumhunting, that works wonders

It wasn't a threat. Think hard about why I may have said that.

[sykedoc]

A read means that you think Player A is more X then player B for point Y or line Z. Just about every post for me does something for a read, there are actually a few people that are slightly scummy to me already and I wouldnt mind wagoning up a bit.

The problem here is just about everything is scummy on D1. Actions without context don't do a lot for me. Im not one of these people who believes all policy lynching is town-like or that white knighting is town like.

[sykedoc]

So its a sort of confirmation bias or something then? I know its WIFOM but man, its wrong. Mod could of though 'hey maybe I can make a bunch of town PRs and someone will try and lynch them because one "must" be scum'

And you don't think it could be the other way around?

Only one that I have any suspicion of being made up is ace. The others are quite obviously real, tubby/SSK especially.

What makes a PR real in a game where its obvious people will have them? I've seen people make up PRs to distract people. What is "obvious" about it. You never said that, you only said it was. Also why is a language post restriction more or less valid than a color one? This seems like a very closed thought.

Nope, they are both real.

You can prove this beyond reasonable doubt? Do not claim very matter-of-factly if you can't.

So NOTHING that ANYONE has said made you think "this doesnt sound quite right?"

Really, no. It seems very par for the course for D1. I dont see anything that directly makes me think "he's scum!". Personally I've seen people White Knight more times than I can count and end up scum, but again this is a personal bias. I don't think this assures scum.

HAHAHAHHAHA you have to be kidding that everything is scummy D1.

Unnecessarily abrasive.

Its usually more of the opposite to me, I come out with a few super strong town reads, then a bunch of middling people and a few I think are scum. Context D1 is more in implications and moves that make little sense either logically or with what the player had been acting on earlier.

If you absolutely insist: Here's my list, although again I don't find these to be substantial at the moment...:

I copied this off of notepad... so.. not every one is filled in. Take with a grain of salt.

ace5993
animorpherv1
Anon- scummy simply for not initially giving a reason behind his vote when it wasn't random
Bogre
Datadanne
DeathNote
DedicatedScribe
DocPotter- A tad scummy for simply repeating the status quo
FishytheFish- Town lean.
Kairyuu- Leaning towards town, seems similar to previous play w/ him.
kyle99- IDK
LlamaFluff- White Knighting, can go either way.
MafiaSSK- Post Restricted/ Feels town
My Milked Eek
Nul- Scummy for active lurking with a completely non-contributory vote. ----Could be a noob... or not.
Parama - IDK
pman5595
Pomegranate- Doesn't feel scummy.
RayFrost- FoS - I didn't like his weird policy lynch post.
SaintKerrigan
Sanhora
sykedoc
tubby216
wolfram

[sykedoc]

Did anyone else just see what happened? We went from, "I have no reads" to "here is my list of suspicion" with almost half filled out. Props to Llama on that one.


On a side note, its going to be like this all game. See the LoS above me? See how there is nothing beside my name? Yeah....

I said I had em, I just said they weren't legitimate to me. I always keep something. I just don't think any of these account for enough to vote for someone.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: If you want me to put "TOTALLY SUPER SCUMMY" by your name I can do that. I mean if you prefer that to nothing XD

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: If you'd like I can put "Totally Super Scummy" next to your name. Although I don't think that's much better than having nothing XD

[sykedoc]

'

Mod: Can you delete my two extra EBWOPs. MS was being funky last night and I ended up posting it more than once I guess because none of them were showing up. Thanks

One of the reasons I don't like to post my suspicions until they're completely substantial is I don't like to be questioned about things I'm not yet ready to respond to. For example: I didn't like your post Ray because it seemed like there wasn't a fully basis beyond the words "Policy Lynch". I didn't feel like I got a legitimate reason for the post. You can fix this. That I can explain.

Many people on there, if its a small suspicion... I may not be entirely ready to explain it. So I generally don't bring out something like this until I am. So asking me lots of questions about this list won't be particularly helpful. When I feel there is a complete reason for suspecting someone I will bring it up. You will learn that this is my playstyle. I don't like to jump off the cliff without a parachute and a backup parachute, I like to make sure my landing it clear, and I want to make sure the wind isn't going to blow me into the side of the cliff.

I may not have something to say on everyone, but in all honesty, can you say that you have a contribution on every person in this game? I really don't. Don't expect me to for awhile. Its done when its done and its best not to hurry it. You can post and not raise any flags or make me feel a certain way.

What does it take me to vote? I want something that stands out. Lets say I have 5 scummy leans. I need something that seems to me that its at least a good chance they could be scum. I don't want to act on something that could be a misinterpretation. I want to act on something that's more likely to be scum than villager being stupid or D1 antics. If you show me something substantial and solid, I'm quite likely to vote with you. I've been killed for not knowing a particular role name when I was new to this site. They gave me a really vague hint on the role name involving one letter in it, and because I couldn't guess, they all wagoned on me. I ended up replacing out because to be honest I wasn't in the mood to deal with people who were entirely uninterested in looking at the fact that maybe I didn't know that role, or maybe I was drawing a blank. It didn't confirm me as scum and I wasn't, but everyone else thought the guy who accused me was a genius and therefore he must be right and I must be scum. I don't like silly things like that.

I welcome other questions as they facilitate productive discussion and this seems to be giving me some good information about the players asking them. =)

[sykedoc]

Regarding the bolded: Why must it be pointed out to you? Why can't you look yourself?

Lol, sorry. I worded that wrong. I mean like I'll look, but if you happen to point out something strong, I'll probably vote with you. That's all that means. You don't need to point it out to me. :p

The whole point of the anecdote is to give you a reason for my playstyle. That's one of the main factors in why it works that way.

Sykedoc can you link me to some games you've played as town? I'll let you choose the ones that express similar behavior to the way you are playing here.

I spent a lot of time replacing into games and unfortunately the last game I was start to finish in I was killer. Frankly me posting my games won't help you much. I haven't played enough full games to really give you a feel for my playstyle by linking you to them. If i linked you to my last game that would do more to hurt my case than to help it. Feel free to look if you wish.

Regardless I try to play the same way in every game as to not differentiate between different personalities. I can go ahead and link you but since I haven't played in many games that I haven't replaced into, its going to be difficult to find this information, especially since my thoughts have changed (as listed in my wiki).

You CAN check my wiki but its not well updated and those are most noob games from me. If there's another way I can help clarify, please ask, but this particular request won't be very helpful. Sorry about that.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: My last game will only make me look manipulative in this respect. Again, it does nothing to help my case, but if you want to look at it I can't stop you. I just hate looking like a psychopath :p

[sykedoc]

Vote the way you feel. I told you up front this is how I act now and that game would only incriminate me. If you get me to L-2 ask for my role and I can make you look silly for crusading.

[sykedoc]

Vote the way you feel. I told you up front this is how I act now and that game would only incriminate me. If you get me to L-2 ask for my role and I can make you look silly for crusading.

That being said, either you're not reading, or you're intentionally trying to get people to not read my other posts. Selective quoting without entire context is a no-no.

EBWOP: My last game will only make me look manipulative in this respect. Again, it does nothing to help my case, but if you want to look at it I can't stop you. I just hate looking like a psychopath :p

I spent a lot of time replacing into games and unfortunately the last game I was start to finish in I was killer. Frankly me posting my games won't help you much. I haven't played enough full games to really give you a feel for my playstyle by linking you to them. If i linked you to my last game that would do more to hurt my case than to help it. Feel free to look if you wish.

Regardless I try to play the same way in every game as to not differentiate between different personalities. I can go ahead and link you but since I haven't played in many games that I haven't replaced into, its going to be difficult to find this information, especially since my thoughts have changed (as listed in my wiki).

This is a case of I did warn you ahead of time and you have decided that one game must be the sole deciding factor that I am scum despite this being my normal voice at this point.

I have tried as of late to remain somewhat the same from game to game regardless of my role, this makes it harder to meta me. If you absolutely have to look at the games, at least take this into consideration.

What evidence do you have IN THIS GAME that says I am scum?
You can prove me scum in a game I've already finished but that has no bearing on this game as the sample size is extremely small.

[sykedoc]

Mod: Its being funky again, please delete my shorter post with the beginning of my longer post.

[sykedoc]

Anon has found a very nice meta connection. It's stronger than my current vote too, so yeah. . .

unvote
vote: sykedoc

Also, he did not play that way in BM's game, the only other time I played with him.

@sykedoc: If you think I'm playing the same as I did last time then why aren't you voting me? Last time I played with you I was a Godfather.

1) I mean in terms of the way you're speaking. I don't see anything funny.
2) One game is not a "meta connection". One game is a small sample size. In statistics we like to call that inaccurate.
3) Would you like me to give you my role so you two can look like idiots?
Its detrimental to the town if I give my role away right now, but its even more detrimental if I die.
4) Did you read the line that said "as of late" or "recently" because I clearly said that I have RECENTLY changed my D1/D2 tactics.

I DARE YOU TO CHECK MY WIKI.
Check the last time I edited it: Go ahead.

You can vote for me if I'm wrong.
It says "He has recently learned that his D1/D2 tactics should be changed, and thus has changed them."
Check in the edit log. When did I last edit it? AUGUST.

You're simply wrong. I defy you to prove me otherwise.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: Significance of August? That was when I played that SK game.
The other game I played in, BM's game, is entirely irrelevant as I was not there for the first two days. I replaced in. Do not attempt to use this against me as it doesn't apply to my

D1 tactics

specifically.

[sykedoc]

Double EBWOP: Thanks for reminding me you were GF. It slipped my mind. That vote needs to go back then

Vote Kairyuu

[sykedoc]

Do not hammer me until you know my role

If people wagon too fast I will not get a chance to say my role and you'll lose a power role.

[sykedoc]

I still do not see how one game is a large sample size.

You absolutely have nothing beyond this.
Show me something else that proves I am scum.

You have N-o-t-h-i-n-g.

[sykedoc]

Also: It would seem this wagon is of interest to me.
Death Note, Kairyuu, Anon.

I do not consider LF as wagoning since he voted for me based on another purpose entirely and thus doesn't stand as part of this.

Take a look at a previous vote count:
Parama (3): Kairyuu, Sanhora, Anon
^Two of those three^

See that? Thats about the same correlation you're making.
If you can assume by one game which i played SK that I am scum, I can assume that you two are working together based on that single vote count.

This is how much evidence you have.

By the same values DataDanne should be dead as well as LF said wagoning him worked quite well last game.

You are reffering to a game i played last august.
ALSO: Riddle me this

If I was an SK in that game, would I need to find the mafia?
Abso-freaking-loutely.
Why would it benefit me to not scumhunt unless my playstyle worked in that way.
I was by myself, and working WITH the town was about the best thing that could've been done.
If anything, that should prove to you that I'm not. Including the fact that I very clearly pointed it out before you went and looked at it. Again you seem to be entirely ignoring this every single time I bring it up. Not ONE of you has addressed that fact. Its as if I didn't say it.

If you want to call it fence sitting, and Kairyuu is so kind to bring up the last game, Fence Sitting was what got me endgamed

AS TOWN

You have proven nothing.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: The last game I had

with Kairyuu

*

[sykedoc]

What did you warn us of? Did you not want us to look because of the similarity in meta?

I warned you because I was 100% aware this case would be made against me.

The meta. The sample size is small because of the few games that you have played from D1, it seems.

Then my question is how do you know that I play as scum in that particular manner?

Well, the problem is that it doesn't look like there's been a change.

That's the point. Every game prior to that SK game I was not performing in that manner. How you could possibly assume that means I only play as scum when doing that is beyond me.

After my vote, you have 5 votes. There are 25 players. In order to be lynched, you need 13 votes. Why do you hype about getting to L-1?[

Because people often let things slip to L-1 VERY QUICKLY. I do not get a chance to role reveal, and you get screwed out of something.

[sykedoc]

I'm going to put this game in big flashing lights on my meta so nobody can pull this crap on me again once it's over.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: My last game will only make me look manipulative in this respect. Again, it does nothing to help my case, but if you want to look at it I can't stop you. I just hate looking like a psychopath :p

^this. Like i said. I was 100% aware this would happen.

[sykedoc]

From the game link and quoted provided by Anon? (If you meant something else with your question, please ask. This one seemed too obvious.)

Not what I was asking. If you see someone tapping their foot nervously at a bus station, can you always assume they are late? I don't think you can.
What I'm trying to ask you is... how do you assume I play the same way as I did that game? What about my history points this out to you? I have only taken this course of action in one game.

It's possible that you're not scum, but the meta points in the definite direction that you are. I'm taking the better chance.

Calling one game a meta is a bit overblown.

I'll probably unvote if you get to L-2. Depends if you keep giving scummy answers, and how quickly you get there.

Ty. Its just that I see situations like this where people slam the votee so fast that nobody gets a direct answer.

[sykedoc]

Most people in this game seem to be forgetting some things about Metagaming:

1) People are not apt to always do the same thing every time.
Case in point: I was lynched as SK in that game, so clearly what I did is the path to success!

2)"The players that excel at Mafia are able to make their Mafia play mirror their Town play almost identically, therefore neutralizing the ability of others to read their "Meta". "
Case in point: What I'm trying to do with my playstyle at this point. It makes me just as much town as it does scum.

3)Why do you assume there is no grey area? I can fence sit on both sides.
Case in point: Fence sitting got me endgamed as town, as i mentioned before.

[sykedoc]

Do not hammer me until you know my role

How many people are in this game? 25. That's 13 to lynch. No deal if you have 5 votes.

Did you read? I said that I was saying this as a warning because things tend to go quickly.

[sykedoc]

Syke:
That fencesitting got you to endgame doesn't mean fencesitting is is a pro-town thing. I'm betting you got to endgame because scum didn't think that you looked obvtown enough to kill (and that you could be a potential mislynch).

Completely missing what I was trying to say. I'm saying I got endgamed (lose because the game ENDED) because I was fencesitting. I'm not saying its a pro-town thing. I'm giving you an example of when it was done in a non-scum situation.

Also how do you not understand my first point? If I am late to class once, does this mean I'm a late person and clearly will always be late?

[sykedoc]

Unvote; Vote: Sykedoc

.

So you still want to cling on onto a bad case?

For right now, yes. I want to get a good explanation out of him first.

There's nothing to explain
I behaved one way in one particular game. What do you need an explanation for?

[sykedoc]

Honestly, syke doesn't seem to be making any sense to me right now. You really have no reads 10 pages into the thread? I even have a few at this point and I'm usually pretty bad on those myself.
Stubbornness to actively not contribute even when called out for it is also making my scumdar go off.

I had "reads" by your definition, but I dont consider it a read until i feel i can substantiate my claim of why someone is scummy

Syke also overreacted to a small number of votes, already worried about a hammer that is several votes away. I don't see a townie being worried about being at L-8 or so.

How many times do I need to repeat myself? I've seen scumwagons hammer faster than you can say "die".

Eek, what makes Pom's case bad? I understand that meta cases are generally weak and would probably agree with you on that, but the case wasn't based solely on syke's scummy meta, but his actions he claims to be justified by his meta

.

Its based on exactly (1) game out of 8 or 9 other games. Nobody has brought up how any other game except that one game makes me look bad. This is a terrible use of meta.

[sykedoc]

Wait, wait, wait.

I want the people who are saying sykedoc's case is crap and such, to explain why you dont think he is scummy after:

- Blatant fence-sitting. Typical scum behavior trying to survive only pushing when necessary. (Sykedoc has already behaved like this as scum).

- Refusing to give opinions but when pressured by Llama, ta-dá, a full list of opinions magically emerge of notepad. Guess you didnt want to get fluff angry.

- Overreacting to 5 votes. Really?

- Also, I dont buy the softclaim OH YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO WRONG WHEN YOU LYNCH A POWER ROLE.

Power roles that are at 5 votes and are not even threatened to lynch DONT start screaming they are power roles because that paints a huge target on their asses. Most likely this is a scum appeal to emotion that its even terribly implemented.

The meta case I found is just confirmation of something sykedoc has already done as scum.

We have scum here people.

I like how you avoid that I fence sat in plenty of other games. Its just a bad habit, its not a scumtell. Of course, you had no desire to dig deeper than one game, because if you were sly enough with quotes you could manipulate having only one game as proof. I explained my reaction to five votes OVER AND OVER. You just don't care to listen.
The softclaim has a lot to do with the fact that I don't care if I die.

You're far scummier than Kairyuu. You're clearly manipulating the fact that nothing besides a single game of mine supports you. Your claims are weak.

Unvote
Vote Anon

[sykedoc]

Right, we can add OMGUS to the scumtells listed in my last post.

Sykedoc, then why in HELL didnt you link me to these games where you exhibit this "bad habit"?

Sykedoc can you link me to some games you've played as town? I'll let you choose the ones that express similar behavior to the way you are playing here.

Some are on my wiki. I'm sure you knew that since you clearly dug through my game history anyway. I think if you're going to bring up ONE game, you best be ready to bring up the others. Again, the sample size is FAR too small. Check Mean Mod Lovefest. I was fence sitting and got endgamed. I was town. So your "fence sitting is obvscum" reasoning is completely off base.

Anon. If you are going to look through someone's game history, don't just look at one game. I mean I could probably dig through yours and find something that makes you look bad too. That would be only taking into account one occasion where there are many.

Also just because someone thinks you're scummy doesn't mean its OMGUS.

You've had a vote on me for awhile, it wasn't until just now that I decided to vote you.

"An OMGUS vote means a player vote another player simply because that player voted him - a vote back. "

"OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you. "

I clearly gave reasoning for my vote.

You're clearly manipulating the fact that nothing besides a single game of mine supports you.

I like how you avoid that I fence sat in plenty of other games. Its just a bad habit, its not a scumtell. Of course, you had no desire to dig deeper than one game, because if you were sly enough with quotes you could manipulate having only one game as proof. I explained my reaction to five votes OVER AND OVER. You just don't care to listen.

People seem to believe that if you have someone voted, regardless of the reason if they vote you back its OMGUS. Don't attempt to twist this.

If you're diligent enough to look at my games, look at more than one. I defy you to find another example outside of that one game.

[sykedoc]

Now he spams three posts at a time looking like scum caught on L-1 when he is still has at least 8 more votes to go

You'll find I do this a lot anyway. Another bad habit of mine. I can try to tone it down but I can't assure you of this.

@skye: have you exhibited this caution over d1 reads in completed games as town?
You are currently making statements about your meta - like it's changing rapidly, it's the same as town and scum. We've got no reason to believe those statements. For anyone who has the time on their hands (maybe even me at some point), could you provide links to completed games you have started?

I made the statement that I'm trying to make both my plays similar. Its hard to see this because there have been long gaps in my playing time. What I'm trying to say is a single game is barely significant to predict my entire pattern of behavior. Its hard for me to give you examples because I was barely playing games from D1 previously. Though, your case is more fair than I've seen from Anon's case. His case against me feels scummy because it seems like he's trying to manipulate a piece of information. You aren't basing everything on that one piece of info, and I see your point is fair but you should be a bit more worried about people who aren't here at all after posting once or twice than me if you're considering active lurkers.

I still have a scummy feel from the skyedoc wagon and I honestly thought it was sky himself.
Just have to take a third look.

You seem odd to me. You're being really vague.

[sykedoc]

vote: docpotter

for all the reasons stated before hand


i gues this is what you call jumping on a wagon

Im sorry Nul, you just wreak of scum.

[sykedoc]

vote: docpotter

for all the reasons stated before hand


i gues this is what you call jumping on a wagon

Im sorry Nul, you just wreak of

scum.

newb

Nul's coming off as a newb more than anything to me. Not that that means he isn't newbscum, just that his actions are more newbie mistakes than anything. He is coming off as rather scummy, especially the recent DocPotter wagon vote, I will admit.
Both Kyle only posted again once they were called out for lurking, and both posted pretty close together as well with a vote for the same person... my scumdar beeped at both of these things. But then again I know how kyle plays regardless of his alignment so this isn't too surprising of a response from him <_<[.quote]

This post is scummy

Clever clever boy. Your usage of quotes ofc.

[sykedoc]

vote: docpotter
because he votes and then unvotes despite still believing the person he voted is a scum?

I really don't want to waste people's time by saying the same thing but in different words.

Yes you are. Some people find it scummy to vote without a good reason unless your in the RVS.

@Parama:

Depending on what the mod does with SSK breaking his PR, SSK. Doc isn't looking that good. Being a general nuisance (spelling?). However, I wouldn't say voting for someone because everyone else is is really scummy, so Nul is neutral to me ATM. I also think skye is being a bit of a pain.

1) Explain

2) Its not the fact that Nul is jumping on wagons. Its the fact that he seems to be lurking and posting with little to no context surrounding an action he takes.

[sykedoc]

@skye:

What do you want me to explain?

I also think skye is being a bit of a pain.

[sykedoc]

On Parama

Vote: Kyle99

Only lynch I would support from the get-go based on policy. Because kyle will active-lurk the hell out of this game and then newbclaim to cover it up. I don't feel like RVSing today.

Why Kyle and not DeathNote?

Can't answer this, but I'd like to know.

On Kairyuu

vote: Parama

Policy lynching is, in and of itself, scummy.

FoS: RayFrost

Same reason.

So how is this not one in the same? You are voting Parama and FOSing Ray because you don't like policy lynches. So how is that not, in and of itself, policy?

Kind of redundant here.

On Nul

What's with the no lynch vote?

You sure there's nothing else to question concerning Nul?

On Anon

Anon's case on sykedoc is good, but whatever happened to Parama?

Good

how?

On MME

If ani can confirm either of the two having a pr, I don't see the harm in asking him. he's the one that brought it up in the first place.

It's still too early in the game for this. This is definitely fishing.

Not...
really...
Its too early in the game to try and sort of B-Mod mod actions in a B-Mod game? No...

On ace5993

And wtf with his restriction.

LMAAOA fitsr offf lal i 2tso have a psto restifdpoijsdoin, nadnd seoncd of iall i dnot half tmiee too trnastelate aythung yet btu i wliil two taht twomorrro!1!!!! This ias jstu bsaiellly sasayging im heer>!!>!!>?? o ADN Vote: Parama POLISSEE LINCH LOLLOLOOOLOLOLOLOLL

"LMAO first off i also have a post restriction. and second of all, i don't have time to translate anything yet, but i will do that tomorrow. This is just basically saying I'm here. And Vote: Parama. Policy Lynch. LOL"

Yea, Ace isn't exactly gaining any points with anyone due to that post.

On sykedoc

If its absolutely necessary I can give you first day reads. But I've found that often, peoples reads on day 1 lead to villagers getting killed for stupid reasons.

Excuses, excuses.

You can prove this is an excuse rather than how I think?

It will not end well if you crusade against me.

And now you are going to threaten people?

Selective quoting is naughty. Read everything.

I find it stupid reasoning to vote for someone because their policies do not agree with yours.

And yeah, I can have zero reads. It depends on your definition of a read.
I believe a read is a valid suspicion. I have none to this point. Anything I do have is based off something i do not consider substantial.

If you can't live with that you can try to lynch me but again. It won't end well.

Wow! AtEs and overreactions much?

Selective quoting is naughty. Read everything.

He's not voting you due to disagreeing with your policies. He's voting for you because you aren't contributing to scumhunting.

I fix: He wasn't voting for you due to disagreeing with your policies. He was voting for you because you weren't contributing to scumhunting. He isn't voting for you anymore, so I might have to ask him if that is still the case rather than making assumptions.

The problem here is just about everything is scummy on D1.

Care to elaborate on this please?

Read everything.

LlamaFluff- White Knighting, can go either way.

Provide examples of Llame white knighting.

[/quote]

I honestly need to provide examples of white knighting? It's not clear as day? Its not a scummy thing, but it CAN be.

What is white knighting?

Its essentially taking a Alpha Leader type-role and leading the direction of things.
Really common for particular players.
Just think of the word: White Knight.
He's riding in to save you all by spectacularly killing all the scum.
Again, its not a trait i generally assign to either side. It is used for both depending on how good the player is.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: If you need me to provide an example for White Knighting, you really haven't read the thread.

[sykedoc]

syke, what's with you telling me to "read everything"? I've asked you to elaborate and you refuse.

Also, if you READ the top of my post, that's only to page 9.

and I'm saying, until you've read all of the pages, those thoughts aren't complete thoughts. If you're looking for tl;dr, then ask but you aren't. I'm saying a lot of this can be explained had you caught all the way up. I just think its redundant to ask things that have been answered or are in the text to begin with. Please just catch up and reconsider the questions.

[sykedoc]

I thought white knighting was taking the "good guy" side (as in going

against

a wagon rather than being for it)?

Anyway, can't wait for starbuck to catch up fully.

Whoops! Missed this the first time.

The way I know this is becoming a "town leader" of sorts.
If I'm wrong, I apologize, that's just how I know it.

[sykedoc]

Greetings and salutations to Starbuck and Reck

Now go vote DP

Lol at least give him a tl;dr version of why.

[sykedoc]

@Anon: why did you only look at that game in constructing your case? If you didn't, how do skye's other games fit with your case?

The serial killer game was the last one he played and the first I found when doing my research. I did read some other games, the thing is that as sykedoc says the majority are all replacements games where he is forced to have a read already. Search is down now but if you can check his newbie where he IS definitely more liberal with his voting. He was town.

Fair enough. My tactics have changed and I realize theres no solid way to convince you of this with my gaps in playing but at the very least you are now using less selective methods in your case. If theres something that I can do to help you believe this, shoot.

[sykedoc]

Part 1:

Clearly you are only interested in jumping down my throat and posting a few thoughts on others. I am less interested in responding to some of what you are saying since it is blatently obvious.

1) If you can not find a point where Llama is leading the town, you haven't read the thread. It's VERY clear in the first 5 pages. Again, I see no reason to bring this up constantly as I said it isn't necessarily a scummy action.

2) You are spending an awful lot of time on me while you seem to give the larger wagon on DocPotter

On DocPotter
His quick hop off the syke wagon in Post 262 is rather odd.

I have 3 votes, and you spend two entire posts cramming the already posted points down everyone's throats, but you give less than 15 words to the bigger wagon. Why is that?

You only seem to care to incriminate me and you don't seem to contribute much to the other cases aside from Nul.

--------
Part 2:

The bolding she is referring to is in a post of his that she quoted: "If you show me something substantial and solid, I'm quite likely to vote with you."

It feels like he just admitting to the fact that he will ride coattails.

Ok so you clearly must believe this about everyone on the DocPotter wagon then. They have (assumed) been all convinced by one reason or another that was brought up that DP is scum. They they voted for DP. Many of them did not find NEW reasons to vote, but agreed with Llama's reasons. This is the VERY POINT i was making.

Are you saying that if there is a valid case against someone and I believe you have a point in voting for them that I can't agree and vote with you? Because you make this sound as if agreeing is an error. Also I'm not the only one who correctly read what I meant from that post. Pom just got confused.

This seems a bit overdefensive to me. Why are you so afraid of your meta?

Its as if you are word for word copying cases from other players. Clearly I wouldn't like my meta because I have few games in D1 and the only one (which I even noted ahead of time would create a bad case) was the game in which i was SK. You should have been able to see this. Don't act blind, you're smarter than that, I can tell.

You are jumping down his throat for evidence in this game that says you are scum when he already gave it to you.

I'm jumping down his throat for current evidence. That game is one single game, and I've said it a thousand times. Its too small of a sample size.

(Concerning that I Fence-Sat as town in another game, and its a bad habit of mine)

I don't like this assumption.

You don't like it because it doesn't help you rail on me. I've fence-sat similarly in other games, like I said its a bad habit.

You're far scummier than Kairyuu. You're clearly manipulating the fact that nothing besides a single game of mine supports you. Your claims are weak.

Why don't you disprove them? Show where you did the same thing as town, rather than ranting and raving.
Claiming they are weak, without backup, is scummy.

You literally just said that it was a bad assumption that I bring up another game where I'm town and fence sit. I believe I even gave the name because its linked on my wiki. This point fails. I did disprove, if you didn't go look at it yourself thats your fault entirely.

Some are on my wiki. I'm sure you knew that since you clearly dug through my game history anyway.

This is a horrid assumption to make.

Why is that? He's allowed to make a case based on one game and call it my entire meta but he can't go look through more than one game? Yeah, because I can prove statistically that I do something from a sample size of one rather than ten, that's logical. I told him where to go for the games. I would have to assume he looked at it since he clearly read my last game after I told him to check my wiki. He knows there's other games there, he seemed to have chosen not to read them.

So out of the other 23 people (excluding yourself and Anon), there's ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ELSE that you find scummy? You are just going to attack the person that's attacking you and vote them. My dear, that's THE DEFINITION of OMGUS.

I told why I found him scummy. I stated my reasons quite clearly and if you missed them you need to go back and check again. I didn't vote for Llama because he had a valid point. Anon's point is based on one thing and I do not like the way he is twisting a small amount of information in a desperate attempt to wagon me. I find this scummy. Sue me.

Along with AtE such as

I'm going to put this game in big flashing lights on my meta so nobody can pull this crap on me again once it's over.

I explained my reaction to five votes OVER AND OVER. You just don't care to listen.

WILL NOT HELP YOUR CASE

How is the second one AtE? I see the first one but the second one was a response to the same question being asked to me continuously. I have a right to be frustrated if I keep getting asked the same question and I'm continually forced to answer it.

While Anon's case is a nice addition, you have done more than your fair share of scummy things IN THIS GAME.

And he hasn't pointed them out. Which is what I've been asking him to do. If he wants to make a case against me it needs to at least have some grounding in this game. Post what you want, but until he has something on me in THIS GAME, the meta is just meta and nothing more.

So, how about you stop all this overemotional whatever the hell you have going on and actually scumhunt? There's like 5 pages of you whining and overreacting about being hammered when you only have 5 votes in a day when it takes 13 to lynch.

ITS HARD TO SCUMHUNT WHEN EVERYONE IS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ALL DAY LONG. Don't go on making a two page post accusing me of this and that and expect me to ignore it and scumhunt, especially when you directly ask me questions in the post. I've been attempting to as now everyone is not asking me all questions all the time, but you're just bringing it back. Not only that but you're saying what everyone else already said.

Also allow me to point out how the rest of your post is still about me.

On DeathNote

Meta wagons suck, yes, but this is not a meta wagon.

Syk

gained votes because of his attempt to active lurk. He stated early on that he had no reads yet and thus Llama pressured him to actually scum hunt. After a brief debate he finally posted a LoS, not a simply "Such-and-such is scummy" but a List of Suspicion! Thats when pressure rose and the meta case was brought up. Now he spams three posts at a time looking like scum caught on L-1 when he is still has at least 8 more votes to go.

He definitely has a point here about

syke.

On SaintKerrigan

The guy is way too quiet for me. He has 5 total posts in the game.

The first is joke voting RayFrost.

The second is QFTing a question asked by wolf.

The third is telling us he's having a hard time getting his head around the game and that he doesn't have a post restriction. He also answers a question about PRs and posts an opinion on

sykedoc

:

I don't think it's odd that Sykedoc doesn't have much on people yet. It's early in Day 1 for a large game, and personally I don't have that much in the way of reads yet myself. Maybe other people are getting reads out of this, but I don't find it odd that some people haven't found much of anything yet.

It almost feels like buddying

.


I smell active lurking.

On DocPotter

His quick hop off the

syke

wagon in Post 262 is rather odd.[/quote]

I feel these lats few opinions aren't even that contributory.

At the point on RayFrost you're not only rephrasing people's statements to repost them, you're just saying "yup he's right" and moving on.

With Saint, you essentially said "too quiet" and reposted his posts

With DocPotter you just kinda said "feels odd" and reposted his post.

You are clearly intent on forming a case on me. You don't seem to care about the others.

----
Part 3

Why did you respond to everything in my first catch up post, even if it wasn't directed at you? You just added a bunch of fluff for no reason, other than

I think you just wanted to look cool

.

Another habit of mine. If you are interested, why don't you go look? Its in my wiki. I'm not going to dig through my old games to make a point about something I don't believe is that important. While you're at it, was the bold line really necessary? I highly doubt it was.

Can you quit being so goddamn impatient and let me catch up? That'd be greatly appreciated.

I'm sorry I assumed when you wrote a

Catch Up

post, that you would have

Caught Up

Don't bother telling me you said you only caught up to that point. I saw that. I'm just wondering why you caught up halfway and then posted questions concerning things answered later in the thread. That's why it's not catching up until you're caught up. I just don't really feel like answering questions that have been discussed already when it's your job to read up to make sure it hasn't been asked.

sykedoc wrote:
I fix: He wasn't voting for you due to disagreeing with your policies. He was voting for you because you weren't contributing to scumhunting. He isn't voting for you anymore, so I might have to ask him if that is still the case rather than making assumptions.

I was trying to make the point that Llama voted for me because I wasn't contributing to scumhunting. You off the bat make the assumption that he agrees with the meta case. I'm not Llama I don't know. I was telling you that if you wanted to bring this up it would be best to ask Llama directly how he felt on the matter rather than making an assumption that he does.

I have read the thread. I didn't feel he was white knighting, so if you can kindly point out where he did so, I (and probably everyone else) would greatly appreciate it.

Its honestly in the first few pages. Leading up and until post 73,
The biggest example is here:

No one gets to be funny over PRs. Infact,

everyone need to say if they have one or not in their next post.

I do not have a post restriction. Yes fun is a part of the game, but fun that hurts the town is not a part of the game.

Bolded for emphasis.

Again, for the 100th time I'm concerned about why you're bothering with it as I've said time and time again that its null. It doesn't lean to either side.

Obviously, you have never played with me before. I post my thoughts as I catch up. You telling me to read everything as response to any of my questions is scummy. Why don't you just respond instead of going out of your way to be nasty?

It isn't scummy. Don't tell me you're caught up (but only halfway) and then ask me questions discussed two pages after where you stopped. I don't think this is efficient. It wastes valuable time when you could simply go and finish reading before asking. Its really like if someone with a working watch asks you for the time. I'd tell them to look at their watch because it's right there. Same goes for you. The posts are right there, I requested you to look at them because you were asking me for something that was there in front of you.

Again, I note that you only seem to be interested in attacking me.

FoS

Starbuck

Its not the fact that you are trying to build a case its the way you're going about it:

1) You spent a little time on nul, but you spent two walls of text yelling at me and asking questions.

2) This doesn't seem to be an original case. This is a Frankenstein case comprised of points from many other people. I don't feel that any of the points you raised in those two walls of text were your own. I feel you were repeating points to make yourself look like you had a better case.

3) You don't seem to bat an eye when something has already been discussed and dealt with. You actually continue on with it (such as the white knighting bit) despite the fact that its either obvious, or not relevant.

4)You play 20 questions and then ask why I'm not doing something else. If you want me doing something else stop asking questions.

5) Even with the reposting of points, you don't seem to add a lot of meaningful content ON to said points. You seem to either be agreeing with them flat out, or saying the same thing in different words.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: Before "I feel these lats few opinions aren't even that contributory." that should be a quote because I'm commenting on that not leaving the post be as I was before. Apologies if it confused anyone.

[sykedoc]

This is very quickly becoming the Starbuck/sykedoc show.

Any interjections are MORE than welcome.

Tell you what. I know nobody else in here likes Walls of Text.

Make a short list of questions for me. Wall-less. So no quote walls.

I literally have all day.

I will go thru and answer them. That is if they're not posted above. I'll grab those in a moment. I'm at lunch but I'll grab them as soon as I finish.

[sykedoc]

Syke, Star: Cut down the text. It's bad when I'm already starting to skim some of your "points".

I know that's what my previous post was for. Like I said nobody likes Walls O' Text.

Also:

Vote: Pom

For fake-scumhunting.

Clarification please?

[sykedoc]

@Llama: I agree with the DP wagon (haven't really analyzed who's on it or not and my read on them which helps as well) for the early fishing comment, but it almost seems too easy and something I would hop on as scum; though it did go unnoticed for far too long.

@Syke:

1) you quoting me telling both of you to effectively stop posting spam is only adding to the problem.

2) I feel her scumhunting to be forced and falsified; which I would expect from scum. What more do you want explained?

Ah ok. I wasn't sure what you meant by "fake".

[sykedoc]

What did you think I meant by "fake"?

Also, lol @ DP saying Llama isn't scumhunting. Where isn't he {Llama} scumhunting?

Wasn't sure, that's why I asked. I had no idea what you meant.

[sykedoc]

I'm going to guess that sykedoc didn't even read anything of what I wrote, even though I took the time to reply to him.

I still think that the DocPotter wagon is opportunistic due to the fact that it's based on one action and many people jumped very quickly.

I read what you wrote. I've been studying most of the day.

I said is there anything outside of that post you'd like to ask. I was trying to avoid another quote wall.

[sykedoc]

2) You are spending an awful lot of time on me while you seem to give the larger wagon on DocPotter

On DocPotter
His quick hop off the syke wagon in Post 262 is rather odd.

I have 3 votes, and you spend two entire posts cramming the already posted points down everyone's throats, but you give less than 15 words to the bigger wagon. Why is that?

You only seem to care to incriminate me and you don't seem to contribute much to the other cases aside from Nul.

What's with the deflection onto other people?

I don't consider this a deflection. I have a right to ask you about the content of your post just as you have the right to ask me about the content of mine. I'm simply wondering why the ratio of me to anyone else is really lopsided in your posting.

It's also not my fault that you feel the need to be Mr. CENTER OF ATTENTION. I find you scummy. I find your actions and reactions over the top, and I also dislike your refusal to answer questions and your repeated discrediting of anything I have to say.

Abrasive. I'm not asking to be the center of attention. If someone accuses you of something, isn't the best defense to prove them wrong? That is why I try to discredit you.

I love how you state that I only concern myself with Nul. Also DocPotter, did one thing which was make a scummy unvote. That wagon, right now, feels very opportunistic. I need to go back and read Doc in iso, but that one move does not automatically label him scum for me.

I think you may have misread this. I was saying that aside from me, you spend a small amount of time on these two. Its more in reference to what I said above about wondering why you talk about me much more than everyone. Then again you answered my question in your response. Much of the game has been about me I realize this, but there are other cases and I'm wondering why there is little time spent on them in comparison. That's all.

Or here's something else. Why have YOU BARELY COMMENTED on the DocPotter wagon? Kinda hypocritical given the fact that you are all over my ass about that very thing.

Frankly, I have nothing new to say. The only reasons I have is what's already been said. I don't think me posting the same reasons would contribute to the case at hand.

Do you ever stop with the AtE?

Woe is you! Answering questions is part of the game, if you can't deal with this, you need to find a new game to play that isn't mafia.

You can do some scumhunting along with answering questions. It's called playing the game!

I'm saying that the game is simply people asking me things and accusing me of things, I have a hard time scumhunting. I can only make assumptions based on the cases people bring up on me when this is occurring and if you vote them they immediately call it OMGUS.

You seem to have an obsession with commenting on everything I have to say, even if it doesn't concern you.

Like I said, bad habit.

For the record, I stated what PAGE NUMBER that I was caught up to. I would have finished catching up, but I had to take off for awhile. You know

because I have a life OFF OF THE INTERNET.

Abrasive. If you are going to talk about the way I act towards you, it seems slightly hypocritical to make statements like the one above. This is not an attempt to backfire, but I'm just making you aware of this.

Again, examples, or your accusation is null.

This will be my next post. I need to go search through your other post in order to do this.

In mafia, you SHOULD be able to multi-task. People ask you questions, you ask people questions. People scumhunt, you scumhunt. If this is too much for you, again, maybe you need to find another game that you can handle.

As stated above, when statements or questions directed at me dominate discussion, I can't scumhunt because nothing else occurs. Hence why I'm trying to cut down this discussion.

[sykedoc]

Mod: Please replace me.

Im way too addicted to WoW. lol.

/hi5 for WoW players

Lost another good soldier to WoW today

[sykedoc]

Why I said Frankenstein Case:

It will not end well if you crusade against me.

And now you are going to threaten people?

I find it stupid reasoning to vote for someone because their policies do not agree with yours.

And yeah, I can have zero reads. It depends on your definition of a read.
I believe a read is a valid suspicion. I have none to this point. Anything I do have is based off something i do not consider substantial.

If you can't live with that you can try to lynch me but again. It won't end well.

Wow! AtEs and overreactions much?

This was stated already by: Anon and a few others
Notably one post that refers here:

- Also, I dont buy the softclaim OH YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO WRONG WHEN YOU LYNCH A POWER ROLE.

-----

It was an excuse because you didn't have reads on ANYONE at that point. You just kept giving excuses about not scumhunting.

This was Llama's initial case, I suggested you ask him why he is no longer voting for me if you're still curious and see what he says. This isn't sarcasm, I'm haven't asked myself, I assumed he was satisfied with his push or found a scummier person.

----

Admission of a PR? This early in the game? Why would you do such a thing?

Also touched on by Anon already:

- Also, I dont buy the softclaim OH YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO WRONG WHEN YOU LYNCH A POWER ROLE.

---

Its not that I'm saying the points are not valid in context. I'm saying that I don't feel there was reasons of your own to vote for me outside of these and that these reasons above (what seem like the main reasons) were not from you initially, and the post makes it seem like you're trying to pass it off that way. Correct me if I'm wrong, that's how I see it.

[sykedoc]

Richard, why the sudden switch to a post restriction?

^this

[sykedoc]

Dedicated was a moron if he said he/we have a post restriction. I don't.

Regardless, there is more than likely a reason for him to say so.

[sykedoc]

wyh so mnayy qeusoitns///??//

Because its sketchy when your PR comes out of nowhere.

[sykedoc]

He was just being stupid (Dedicated). There's no post restriction, nor has there ever been one for my slot.

Fair enough. Still keeping it in mind, but I know I've been the victim of a stupid predecessor before.

[sykedoc]

Vote Sykedoc

Thanks for giving no reason:

FoS SSK

[sykedoc]

Addition: That sir, is the definition of Active Lurk.

[sykedoc]

Actually, DeathNote is more active lurking than SSK.

DN is just lurking period.

[sykedoc]

/IC hat on

Active lurking is posting so you don't get prodded, not participating at all. SSK has put out his own (french) opinions and a vote; which isn't active lurking, it's just not explaining himself.

/IC hat off

Regardless, I deserve an explanation for the vote do I not?

[sykedoc]

I noticed that DocPotter is at L-2

If anyone wants to ask him something, you may want to do that now before someone puts him at L-1.

Just an FYI for everyone.

[sykedoc]

Also SSK:
If you were planning to vote for me you forgot to unvote, hence why your vote didn't count.

[sykedoc]

Oh, well i thought that was what occurred so I felt like informing him.

[sykedoc]

Also: I do consider it an active lurk since his last post was on page 11. This post was a vote with no contributory content.

The post on Pg. 11 simply said "This post is scummy"

His last post before that (Pg. 6) consisted of "no"

The last time SSK posted content beyond a response was Pg. 3

"Décès ou régulier? Car je suis aussi un meunier, régulier."
and
"Parto do princípio de sua regularidade. its really kinda vaga. mas sim o meu melhor palpite seria regular. Agora eu odeio moleiros assim que eu entender completamente Se eu fosse ser linchado ou Vigged primeira vez hoje"

Other than that I don't see much in his posting. I consider this active lurking after page 3. He wasn't at that stage but its now page 19 and he should be posting some sort of content.

There's no hint of any kind nor suggestion to why he may be voting for me. This smells opportunistic.

So yes, it is activelurk.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: Page 12 not Page 11. Sorry.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP again: Just realized that second post from Pg 3 is a repeat of a quote he already quoted, but it just wasn't in quotes so I thought it was him. Ignore that posting then.

[sykedoc]

I noticed that DocPotter is at L-2

If anyone wants to ask him something, you may want to do that now before someone puts him at L-1.

Just an FYI for everyone.

i am seeing sykedoc - docpotter connections.

And yet you decide not to state information that you believe is useful to the town.

[sykedoc]

If you see it, show them what you're seeing.

[sykedoc]

The one thing that concerns me is that sykedoc has been pushing the lynch on DocPotter, but isn't even voting for him. He's voting for Anon.

He even went as far as, when questioned by me, to deflect the conversation onto DocPotter.



He's got an OMGUS vote riding on Anon, and is pushing along the lynch of someone who he obviously finds suspicious, but isn't willing to vote for?

I have an FoS on him if its any consolation. I feel that twisting a single piece of evidence is a little more notorious than jumping off a wagon.

I still believe he's scummy, but I believe there is a smarter scum, and I'd rather get rid of a smarter scum who I believe will do more damage if left alive.

[sykedoc]

I like how my post on SSK activelurking and giving a vote on me with no reason even remotely stated in any of his posts has gone relatively ignored.
I am slightly astounded if nobody else is curious why this vote occurred and just seems plain opportunistic.
I'm sure it was read.

Now:

Unvote

Nobody else is going to help me with that vote it seems.

Also this most recent post by DP has me slightly irked.

Vote Kyle
That's twice you've not bothered to read my posts properly, and come out with something that's just wrong. One of them seems to be the basis for your vote.

I'm not sure if I missed something but Kyle was recently prodded, meaning he hasn't posted for awhile before his most recent post, which is this:

Sorry about that, I've been having difficulty getting power in my house. DocPotter is at L3 AFAIK, so if he gets a couple more votes, I'd say he should claim. I'll try to make a better post once my power is 100%, it's dumb to start making a post and have the power go out

The next post from DP posted above acts as if he just recently posted against him.
I find it really weird that DP has just now decided to vote for Kyle, especially based on something that occurred awhile ago. Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to vote on that earlier when it happened?

Vote DocPotter

I'm trying again with Anon tomorrow.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: "That vote" refers to Anon not SSK.

Addition:

You BELIEVE he's scummy and you see that the wagon is in his favor, but you aren't voting for him?

Again, it seemed to me that Anon was scummier, DP is scummy but in a stupidly obvious way. Anon seems like he could worm his way out of it. But, to be honest, you're right. I got a little bit of tunnel vision, and was a bit blind to the fact that I might be able to deal with it at another time even though I'll most likely die tonight.

[sykedoc]

Sykedoc, why am I scum again?

I've already stated my reasons in many previous posts. Please go look for it as I shouldn't need to restate my reasons.

[sykedoc]

Sykedoc, why am I scum again?

I've already stated my reasons in many previous posts. Please go look for it as I shouldn't need to restate my reasons.

No, I really want you to restate them or add another reasons or quote them from me in case I miss them, because I reread and found out that you think I am scum because I only checked only one game of yours which as I explained in:

The serial killer game was the last one he played and the first I found when doing my research. I did read some other games, the thing is that as sykedoc says the majority are all replacements games where he is forced to have a read already. Search is down now but if you can check his newbie where he IS definitely more liberal with his voting. He was town.

While you aren't the most opportunistic person on my wagon. I feel you are twisting a very small piece of evidence without taking all of it into context. You don't seem to mention any other game I've played. There is more behavior than just having or not having a read. You are taking a very small piece of a large puzzle. More than one thing goes into a person's meta and I feel you are purposely avoiding any other part of my game behavior outside of something done in one game.

is not true. So?

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: for some reason my reply ended up in the quote right above
"is not true. So?"

Mod: Can you fix it? TY

[sykedoc]

I still believe he's scummy, but I believe there is a smarter scum, and I'd rather get rid of a smarter scum who I believe will do more damage if left alive.

How does this make sense? You BELIEVE he's scummy and you see that the wagon is in his favor, but you aren't voting for him?

This.

unvote, vote: sykedoc

RF, he is now voting for DocPotter, but only after I posted this.

Like I said: I don't see my vote on Anon going anywhere. I still believe he's scummy but there doesn't seem to be anybody who agrees.

[sykedoc]

Sykedoc, did you even read what I posted?

Specially the part where I said I DID read more than your serial killer game?

Not what I'm trying to say. I think you're purposely not talking about the other behaviors. I'm not saying you didn't look at other games but a meta is more than one or two behaviors, it is made up of many types of actions and behaviors. You don't seem to be interested in comparing other behaviors. I feel like you're going after what is most convenient to put a case on me.

[sykedoc]

Skye. Perhaps you should be reading.

I post that I will be absent for a day or two, kyle makes the post that you quote, and then I responded to it when I came back. You know that post you quoted where Kyle said I should claim.

Of course if he had read the game he would have seen me say that I am town. Asking for a claim when I have is a good sign that he's not reading the game isn't it?

So why are you really voting that way. Worried that Starbuck is starting to pin you down and you want to jump the biggest wagon to stop yours forming?
For that matter, why the change from your claimed fence sitting normal style of play since you also said that fence sitting seems to work for you?

My reason stands. His missing of your post isn't a scumtell, it means he's lazy.

[sykedoc]

Like I said: I don't see my vote on Anon going anywhere.

I still believe he's scummy but there doesn't seem to be anybody who agrees.

Umm...What?

Didn't it already move somewhere new? Or did you just forget?

Twisting of words Starbuck. I mean the vote isn't going to cause anyone to change their minds. As in my case doesn't have supporters.

[sykedoc]

Yes- I find this very scummy. He pushed for a wagon/lynch on a player that he didn't find the scummiest, but when he was pressured, he switched his vote. The original act was scummy, and the fact that he only did the logical thing after being pressured to was also very scummy.

RF, I call it:

scumthatwantalynchtogothroughandwillsupportitwhilenotactivelymakingithappenbyvotingthepersonbecauseheknowsthatthewagonisonatownieandwantstoweaseloutoftroublelater

Isn't this doing the same thing since you aren't voting for me?

I switched for the reasons stated. Nobody is helping me on my case, its a wasted vote.

[sykedoc]

Isn't this doing the same thing since you aren't voting for me?

I switched for the reasons stated. Nobody is helping me on my case, its a wasted vote.

Nope.

Nope.

You switched votes because you realized that you couldn't get an easy lynch on anon or leave your vote sitting there to avoid attention, so you changed your vote to the DP wagon to help promote the lynch you said you supported but weren't voting after you were pressured.

This is scumwantingtoavoidseemingscummyandhenceeasilybendingtopressure

It's also scumthatdoesnothaveconvictionabouttherecaseandishenceeasytobendwithpressure

Ok, so I should have kept my vote on a case that was not gaining any steam and likely to not go anywhere?

Situation 1)
I vote on the initial DP wagon: You would all yell at me and say I bandwagon

Situation 2)
I keep my vote on Anon: You all yell at me and say my case sucks and I'm being opportunistic

Situation 3)
I swap vote to DP: You all yell at me and say I'm collapsing to pressure as scum.

Can you see why this whole roundabout is stupid.
Just flippin lynch me if you're after that. There's really no direction I can go in where you won't pull my pants down and yell SCUM!!!!!

[sykedoc]

Skye, you sound like you are making a deadline compromise vote. That you are doing so with 2 weeks or so before deadline is not a townie thing.

NOBODY else is with me on Anon. Not a single person. I call that not gaining any steam since I've been voting for him for at least 3 or 4 days IRL.

[sykedoc]

You should've pushed your case further

Situation 2)
I keep my vote on Anon: You all yell at me and say my case sucks and I'm being opportunistic

OR switched before it was brought up as an issue

Situation 1)
I vote on the initial DP wagon: You would all yell at me and say I bandwagon

You act

after

things become issues but not before, which is scummy.

Now go, try to grapple with how concise I'm being!

[sykedoc]

I feel many of you are not well informed on common behaviors of mine:

Frustration and Bending to pressure being common:

See Here-
viewtopic.php?t=7827

viewtopic.php?t=7668

viewtopic.php?t=6317

Read up kids.

[sykedoc]

Meta-defenses are ftl.

You are still scummy.

Considering there's a few people who agree with a meta case against me, it isn't lame defense as some of my habits shown are common in town scenarios making the meta case somewhat invalid.

Defending Meta with Meta makes sense.

[sykedoc]

You are bringing in assumptions about what we'd have done. Presumptuous action in order to counteract any and all arguments in the "no matter what I do, you think I'm scum!" crybaby AtE format

I assure you this might not be the case outside of a few people. I was already under a microscope when the DP wagon started, and the reasons had already been stated. I would have had nothing new to contribute, which according to many people is riding coattails.

[sykedoc]

I've actually decided to narrow it down for you all.

On the subject of the way I handle questions and read requests:

Vote: skyedoc.

A variety of reasons, the majority of which I've made pretty clear. I think the most likely scumpair is skyedoc/AP, although I get scummy vibes from everybody but EA and no read at all on SensFan.

skyedoc replaced for a scummy player, didn't play a good game, lurks frequently,

has avoided questions all game like the plague

, and I'm not sure if my role is paranoid or insane, but I did get a guilty on him.

I was mason in this game. Town sided.

I found MF more odd on my reread, but

skye's frantic posting and threatening after he claimed did scream scum to me as well

. I mentioned in my analysis I found both of them scummy, and I think a lynch of either of them would be a good strategy today. At deadline, I'd be willing to lynch either of them but I'll have a reread and see who I find more likely to be scum out of the two.

Same game. Town sided mason.

Of the two, right now I'm more confident with skye being scum, particularly because of his most recent post and the fr

antic and agressive nature of his posts

when he claimed so I'm going to unvote vote: skyedoc

Town.

On the subject of AtE/claimthreat: Its a nulltell.

Neither of us will come up scum and if you need to lynch me to see that go the hell ahead.

Same game again. TSM.

@ Lowell: It wasn't a meaningless vote. Your vote was meaningless which caused suspicion and

if you even bothered to read my post

, i just said that i had read further into it and after deciding you were suspicious enough i have decided to vote for you.

Similar to my responses to starbuck? Townie.

Bionic, At the risk of sounding more scummy i'm going to say this.

I really don't care at this point if you lynch me, but realize that you will be lynched the next day when you find that im town.

I tend to commonly get accused for trivial things, so really go ahead and kill me because out of the few games i've played on this forum it's happened in all. Kinda ruins the fun for me. So go ahead kill me idc.

Sound Familiar? Town.

It wasn't an OMGUS vote. I don't just OMGUS people.

He's been leading a crusade against me for about three pages based on a flat out retarded question which shouldn't have REQUIRED an answer.

If that isn't somewhat fishy, i dont know what the hell is.

Town.

On the subject of bending to pressure: Nulltell

OK. Rereading and I am going to vote sykedoc. A

lot of action has come around since some light prodding of syke, leading me to think we may be on to something.

This is why I like getting discussion going. Attitudes changed real quick as soon as somebody felt like they were being figured out and some people went from friendly to not very friendly in a hurry.

Townie.

Make your Meta is lame statements all you want, but If you use my meta against me, I have just as much right to show you that I'm innocent in the same fashion.

I don't require you to change your votes but I ask you to take this into account if you're also going to take Anon's case into account.

[sykedoc]

So since saintkerrigans slot is due to be replaced, making any case would be futile right now. But whoever replaces in, im not just forgetting about this i expect some protown things out of this slot

Unvote

My other suspect sykedoc, is doing what made my initially suspicious, which is a whole bunch of AtE. Asking to be lynched, the ''you will be sorry for lynching me'' defence used earlier'' and imo a lack of any pro town activity

vote: sykedoc

also your most recent post is of little interest to me sykedoc, your actions are independently scummy in THIS game.

Voting me based on a nulltell? At least Starbuck's post has some things in it.
This is opportunistic.

[sykedoc]

Third Request:

MafiaSSK, please give your reason for voting for me, as you have not even hinted at it and you seem to disappear for long periods of time while posting very little.

[sykedoc]

The case on Syke is not meta.

It's where the case started. I understand that the case on syke isn't purely meta anymore, heck, how could it be?, but the initial case started with meta arguments.

^this

This is why I feel bringing up meta is a fair step at this point.

At this point I've exhausted my defensive options. So, unless there's a change, turning point, or question, I can't do much more right now.

[sykedoc]

It started with meta, but many of the people on the wagon aren't voting based on any meta. I know I'm not. Starbuck isn't either. I don't know specifically about any other players. I think the only one still hanging onto the meta argument is DocPotter.

Have you considered that it explains some of the things blatantly labeled as scumtells?

I feel these are nulltells, and this is just a point to prove as any. How are they scumtells if they've been done in similar situations as town several times?

I think the general view of this is an unfair one in that case. Tells vary person to person, which is exactly why I don't vote without a good reason as I said initially. I don't vote for someone because they AtE, or they defend themselves overly. These are normal reactions to someone who isn't good at staying cool under pressure. Not everyone falls into the same mold.

[sykedoc]

Look at the cases presented:

Pom's recent argument: I folded under pressure and it makes me look scummy

Rifka: I AtE'd and it makes me look scummy.

RF: Same as Pom

Ami: Sounds like an AtE case as well as well as the way I reacted

Starbuck: all of the above plus a softclaim threat

Anon: meta + all of above

Now take a look at the post I made again.
I ask you for the billionth time:

If I've done this several times under similar circumstances, why is this still considered a scumtell? I have physically given evidence that its null.

Examples of things that aren't scumtells that make cases:
SSK's vote for me following an utter lack of any contributory posting. There was no reason attached to the vote and he still hasn't responded.

^ This isn't based on a tell that could be a nulltell.

This is Rule 1 of scumtells guys...
"An action is a scumtell if and only if a specific player is more likely to take it as scum."

If i've done that in 1 game as scum and several as town, which is more likely?

"I'm not completely discounting behavioral scumhunting, of course - it can certainly be useful in certain situations, but it's by far the less efficient method imo. It seems to derive almost completely from intuition, which is very different from player to player, and it's therefore extremely difficult to convince the town with a behavioral case. There's also always the chance you're just wrong about the guy, especially if you've never played with him before. Psychological guidelines simply don't apply to everyone. I think it's seldom easy for a town to correctly lynch scum on purely behavioral reasoning, probably almost only happens in the case of serious blunders. "

This should at least turn some heads on the way I'm currently being attacked.

[sykedoc]

.... none of my case was AtE, but does consider behavior. I'm a "natural" scumhunter as I don't really look at votecounts, or anything like that but I do see stuff that doesn't make sense coming from a town perspective. In your {syke's} case: I believe your reaction to come from scum as you don't feel that anything you can do in this game will redeem yourself. If you were town, you'd have the belief (especially with... 3? votes on you at the time?) that you can prove your townieness by being yourself. But instead you feel that no matter what you do you're going to look scum. I view this to be a scum mindset as you know you're guilty and you can't redeem yourself through standard means.

Its the impression that I got from your post where you voted for me. I didn't intend to misrepresent you. The point I've been trying to prove is that its a common fallacy on my part. I freak out at little things, its just who I am. Also its very easy to get the mindset that no matter what you do you're scum when everything is seen as scummy coming from other people.

[sykedoc]

Panama

I'm not a country, sorry.
And don't worry about kyle lurking. That's kinda why I wanted to policy lynch him. For him active lurking is a nulltell <_<

deud wat s yur plroamen jstu shhut teh fkcu up

i wantt o h ammer if dp o rsky gtes to l1

oh dinr fell os godd

god you look scummier than me...

[sykedoc]

I may not be active tomorrow, so if I'm slow to respond please be patient.
I've run into some major personal issues and I need to be alone for a little while.

[sykedoc]

Not much occurring today.

I'll be out for one more day as I'm still sorting out a major personal issue.
I will try as hard as I can to get back and reply if something occurs tomorrow that requires my response.

I apologize for any inconvenience this causes, this should be sorted out soon.

[sykedoc]

Im back, Apologies.
Long, somewhat emotional week for me.
I'll catch up later tonight and make a post. Sorry for my absence.

[sykedoc]

Sorry. Again have to postpone a bit. I promise promise promise that I'll give something by tonight.

[sykedoc]

Thoughts so far:

I'm going to try and avoid more quote wall-y posts. Many of you hate those.

Parama: I'm not sure if he's being a highly agressive town with an ego streak, or if he's getting mad about something, or being scummy.

Richard: Less scummy now that I can read his posts. I feel like he's posting on a normal basis with more coherence.

On my case: I think the people who have voted for me based on meta or silly null tells are weeded out mostly at this point. I still don't like the case as I feel i play similarly, but I believe it was Amished who had a valid point about me being aware of my meta, and thus could play to it. I'm not really sure what to tell you on that.

FFFF: Needs to talk more. really Needs to talk more.

Dramonic: Would like to talk more, not entirely NEEDS to talk more. Town-like until further notice. Still disagree with his "lynch of person with anti-town type of behavior" rather than "lynch of scummy behavior".

Llama: Doing a surprising lack of White Knighting at this point considering how present it was in the beginning. Also surprised at drop off in posting. Did he say he was busy? If I missed it I apologize.

DocPotter: Posting too rare. Seems like he's trying to slip the net at this point.

RF: To be honest I wouldn't be wary of voting for him based on that dare. Its no different than what I did earlier, just in different words.

RV: Would like to see more from this poster.

Starbuck: Bogre barely defended me. Calling it a "chainsaw defense" is a bit of a stretch.

Bogre: Possibly misrepresented. I don't think y'all are seeing what he's saying. I don't see a lot of scum floating on him.

If I missed anything, ask and I'll answer.

Also, Kairyuu had a broken comp, we should be a tad patient with him. Thx.

Will be a bit slow so don't expect as rapid posting as I had before. Very swamped with midterm projects and the like.

[sykedoc]

@Wolf.

I found the manner of Richard's posting initially scummy. I think much of it had to do with the fact that I didn't entirely understand him, and he knew many people didn't understand him. This led to less posting with less coherency.

Just my opinion.

@Amish

I see Bogre as not getting his point across correctly. I dont see it as scummy persay.

[sykedoc]

Anyways, going out on a limb here and saying that I feel Llama is scum. None of his posts since he responded to my response to his case have actually given reasons why people should be voting me though I have posted plenty since then - he's urging everyone to vote and not providing the reasons himself. He's also been leading the town in circles - starting one wagon, asking others' opinions, then lying low until the next opportunity to form a wagon arises. So call it OMGUS if you want,

unvote, vote: LlamaFluff

.

I think this has a lot to do with your playstyle. I don't know it well. Saying Llama is giving you no reason is a bit farfetched.

The only two "wagons" that i'd see from Llama are DP's and yours.

Mine wasn't a "wagon". He was just pressing me in the beginning during the RvS.

So its a big of an overgeneralization to say that's what he's doing.

I need to figure out who I should be voting for, as the deadline is coming up. But for the moment:

Unvote

IIRC I have a couple days to figure out whats what.

[sykedoc]

So basically Parama's defense is an OMGUS on Llama? Wtf?

Something like that.

[sykedoc]

Désolé pour mon absence. Comme je l'ai appris récemment que je suis une personne très spéciale dans ma vie. Anyways, Parama Souhaitez-vous aimé par lynchés?

sorry for my absense. As I've learned recently I'm a very special person in my life. Anyways, Parama who would you wish to be lynched by?

or something like that.

I'm sorry I laughed really hard.

"As I've learned recently I'm a very special person in my life."

[sykedoc]

Syke- Your a valid wagon right now as well. I don't understand what made you think your votes were only pressure...

You did not read what I wrote. Hell Llama even said it himself.

HIS early vote was to pressure me.
I am not referring to others votes.

Its also weird how you made that about me when it was really clearly not intended to be about me. I was trying to make a point that Llama had been on only one other "wagon", DP's wagon, and his vote on me was to pressure me during RvS.

Please don't twist my post.

[sykedoc]

Addition:

The only two "wagons" that i'd see

from Llama

are DP's and yours.

Mine wasn't a "wagon".

He

was just pressing me in the beginning during the RvS.

[sykedoc]

sykedoc (9): Anon, DeathNote, Starbuck, MafiaSSK, RayFrost, Amished, Rifka Viveka, Pomegranate, RichardGHP

For reference then Syke. What is a wagon?

God, its like you don't want to read.

It has nothing to do with my actual wagon.
Please read my post.

It

DIRECTLY

concerns Llamafluff's vote on me in the RvS stage.

Can you please read my posts before making comments like this?

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: I said "wasn't a wagon" in reference to the fact that Llama was the only one voting for me at the time and he was unvoted me before it became a wagon.

Therefore,

it was not a wagon, as a few people isn't a wagon.

I didn't say a thing about my current wagon, which is in fact a serious wagon.

[sykedoc]

Hmm. DN says that your wagon is still valid. You said it wasn't because Llama said his vote was pressure.

Hence my question.

I did not.
Read my post.
I never said my wagon wasn't valid.

I'm saying Llama's vote on me wasn't a "wagon"

Jeesh. Seriously please read.

[sykedoc]

Addition:

Enlighten me. Please show me where I said my current wagon is not valid?

"HIS early vote was to pressure me.
I am not referring to others votes."

I said that.

"his vote on me"

Does this refer to the wagon on me? No it does not.
Please, find me a specific example of where I have said my wagon is not valid.
Keep in mind, I have not on the entire page been trying to make a case about my wagon being invalid.

[sykedoc]

Gah. Still missing the point. This has nothing to do with me DP. I do not understand why you're trying to turn it into me.

You're expanding on something trivial in my wording and completely ignoring the fact that this post has nothing to do with me.

Its incredibly scummy that you're trying to turn it into that.

When he voted for me he was doing it on principle, he didn't seem to plan to lynch me. He got off when more people voted for me for a reason that had nothing to do with that vote.

[sykedoc]

Llama votes for Syke, other votes follow. It's not a wagon.

Llama votes for me, other votes follow, it is a wagon.

Llama votes for Parama, other votes follow, it is a wagon.

Syke. Please, explaine why this is your stance.
Please explain why I'm scummy for asking you a simple question.
Please explain why you are so keen to not answer it.

Hell, please explain how it's not about you when you made it about you when you said, in response to Parama's comment about Llama starting wagons, that it wasn't a wagon in your case.
Syke, what is your definition of a wagon if the multiple votes on you weren''t a wagon?

The "wagon" on me, was different than why Llama voted for me. He wasn't starting a wagon with his vote and that should have been COMPLETELY obvious.

Your incessant whining about this is really starting to scream SCUM! at me because its becoming annoying as I've explained myself multiple times

including just now.

I feel as if you're attempting to make some sort of accusation about me using a minuscule detail in a point I was making about someone else.

I have answered it MULTIPLE TIMES. You chose not to pay attention and its really starting to piss me off.

It has absolutely zip fecking nothing to do with what my definition of a "wagon" is.

It concerns Llama's votes and Llama's votes only.

Llama's vote on me was based on policy and principle and was largely a result of RvS in an attempt to make me scumhunt. If you don't understand this please go look because its in big flashing lights.

Llama's vote on you was not based on such things. He thought you were scummy and gave a list of reasons and then attempted to gather people. We would call that wagoning.

He wasn't attempting to gather people for his cause when voting for me, and did not create a "wagon". Anon etc joined on their own accord due to a different case, which is when Llama hopped off as it had nothing to do with why he voted for me to begin with.

That should be perfectly clear. If it isn't I'm no longer responding to the same question that you keep asking continuously

HoS DocPotter

Frankly you're being aggravating and I believe you're doing it intentionally.

L-4, shouldn't have asked.
Syke, why are you not voting him?

Because I'm deciding if I want to go back to DP with his current actions.

[sykedoc]

You know what, I'm stupid. Deadline coming fast.

Vote Parama

[sykedoc]

I still find sykedoc more scummy than Parama.

That's lovely but we have a deadline coming fast.

[sykedoc]

unvote

I think that claiming a faction specific cop isnt something that scum would do in this game. Im betting on a higher chance of there being no Greek mafia (see bastard mod game) then Parama being scum. Too many major pitfalls for scum to make that claim.

Need to do a little reading to see where I need to move my vote first.

The problem here is the deadline is less than a week away.

[sykedoc]

Why are you so concerned with deadline? We have time.

Because that's 3 days, and we've been hopping from wagon to wagon. Its more to the point that nothing will get done. There's a few people here who are barely talking. We're not getting much out of it. I'm not saying we have to do THIS very lynch, but we're in a state where much of being counterproductive before this day ends. Many people here don't seem to understand the implication of having 3 days left. Look how many people are barely active right now.

[sykedoc]

Pom is going to be V/LA , Nul barely is around, Bogre disappeared awhile ago, Tubby almost activelurks, Riceball hasn't given us a ton, FFFF is also barely here, MME and PI are barely posting.

I think this is a huge problem with the impending deadline.

[sykedoc]

unvote
vote: sykedoc

Fearmongering.

You're essentially pushing the deadline lynch of a claimed cop,

when your main defense of yourself is "if you lynch me you'll hit a power role and then you'll be sorry." Tell me then, how does that apply to you, but not to Parama?

I'm not saying we have to do THIS very lynch, but we're in a state where much of being counterproductive before this day ends.

[sykedoc]

Unvote

Vote DocPotter

I need to explain this vote:

I had my giant HoS earlier on him.
His pattern keeps reading like this...

Many people are saying things about me, but its DP who seems to be riding everyone else's accusations. He takes small things that have been brought up by other people and uses them to try and turn attention away from him.

You pressed me on that detail on a defense of Llama earlier and dropped it after I explained it for the 3rd or 4th time. You were riding directly off DN's smaller point.

This time, I see you using Starbuck's point.
I can't help but feel like you're just trying to follow the tide.

[sykedoc]

@syke: If you're going to push the idea of a different lynch while not committing to it yourself (note that your vote is still on Parama as of this typing) you are being hypocritical, and cannot legitimately say that you support anything but a Parama lynch.

Ex-Post Facto.
This seemed to have been posted as I was making my post.

[sykedoc]

@syke: If you're going to push the idea of a different lynch while not committing to it yourself (note that your vote is still on Parama as of this typing) you are being hypocritical, and cannot legitimately say that you support anything but a Parama lynch.

This isn't the first time he's done this.

He was pushing for DocPotter earlier today while voting for someone else. He didn't vote DP until pressured.

I wouldn't call this pressure unless whoever unvotes now you qualify under the same standards. In that case you may have up to 8 other people to talk to. He had a cop claim, and I was given a valid reason to unvote. The DP vote earlier and this vote now are not the same vote.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: I also didn't push the idea of any lynch in particular including a no lynch at the time my initial posting in response to Starbuck. I was just informing that there would be a deadline approaching and we needed to figure out something.

[sykedoc]

This is a bastard mod game; I would not be surprised if there isn't even a Greek Mafia in the game.

But isnt that a bit too WIFOMy for a vote?

[sykedoc]

I'm done with your question because I've answered it over 3 times. My statement had zero to do with what you're asking and I have no reason to justify something to you that I've explained numerous times. Keep rolling in that OMGUS.

[sykedoc]

From the MafiaScum Wiki:

Bandwagon:
"Several Votes on the same player to try to Lynch them or force them to roleclaim; "

Now, would you kindly point out to me where Llama was trying to lynch me or force me to roleclaim during this vote.

I can show you where he was trying to lynch or force you to claim, and you can clearly see where that occurred with Parama.

Check.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: during his vote

[sykedoc]

Mod: Votecount please

[sykedoc]

As a universal compromise, I propose we lynch RiceBallTail.

<3

[sykedoc]

Maemuki wrote:
172 - Thank you! But ... if one belongs to the restrictions Mafia / Pacific (a) in Series ... why did you not tell either me or the ace?


By the way, did you get seems happy when RF came in and said "let's lynch the RBT. Why?

Lots of love,
Mae

I do not understand the first part in the slightest. Sorry. If anyone can translate better I'd be happy to answer.

To the second part, I wasn't aware he was serious about the lynch as he hadn't voted in that post. I was actually under the impression that it was a sarcastic remark but now that I see what he's doing I know it isn't (or maybe it was but he's serious about it).

[sykedoc]

Day won't end.
In interest of progress/time, again:

unvote
vote RBT

[sykedoc]

Day won't end.
In interest of progress/time, again:

unvote
vote RBT

How's that OMGUS workin' for ya?

Also, since Parama claimed cop,

I hopped wagons because we needed to push one of the already existing ones, not because I thought it was the best one

. I just believe DP townier than Syke. Too many people want the Syke lynch, so it's best to get it over with, and then proceed on with scumhunting. Yeah, I think he's town, but it's a necessary casualty based on most people's mindsets.

Lol. I'm sorry but at least Anon put together a case. Do you suggest I vote for myself?

[sykedoc]

THE UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE

@

Anon

, FishytheFish, Kairyuu, LlamaFluff, My Milked Eek, sykedoc:

As much as I <3 you, my problem is in bold.

[sykedoc]

I might nominate that for a title. Off By A Thousand or something.

+1

[sykedoc]

@Syke:

I knew one of, if not both of you, would take umbrage to that.

Now, look back objectively and pretend you are a third party. Anon's statements (while based in meta BLAH) make sense as does his continued surprise and irritation when it doesn't take ground in a way that is hard to fake. It, really, is a pretty town case.

Now, of course, I think its wrong as can be seen from your total irritation with what happened. While I don't agree with some of the things you've done the overall feel is a town banging his head against a case.

So, yea, give each other high fives, join THE UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE and lets just go ahead and let the blood flow.

I'm not saying his case didn't make sense. It was more about his tunnel vision on me.

I don't think we'll get a CSL vote today either though.

[sykedoc]

Addition: I'll do it either way. Its just the issue that I don't think his tunnel vision is going to go away anytime soon.

[sykedoc]

very true.

In fact

unvote, vote FFFF

really did not like the way that looked

I'm not sure we can keep hopping around like this.

[sykedoc]

unvote
Vote CSL

Interesting turn.

[sykedoc]

Just out of curiosity why did you cut out what I actually said in full about DP as there were reasons leading up to it. My voting post doesn't need to contain those reasons and I find it odd that you said there was minimal reasoning in that since I had stated those. Furthermore, Find me something else I could've said about RBT that hadn't been stated a thousand times. Minimal posting provides me not so much to work with.

The CSL vote is for SpyreX, I personally did not have a reason for that.

The only only vote I made for deadline reasons was Parama.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: That post was directed at Anon.

[sykedoc]

I'm sorry but "Just restoring my vote from day 1" just doesn't sound to me like a completely legit voting reason.

I'm going to go with Spyrex again and see if he's as on target as he was the first day.

Vote DeathNote

Spyrex, I kind of expected this, as someone doesn't want that working in our favor.

As an addition although it may be a bit WIFOMy, someone may want to make our group smaller so they have a better shot at getting in.

[sykedoc]

Why is Syke untouchable, Spyre?

I believe he's referring to the alliance, that appears to be why?

[sykedoc]

Syke seems to have a bad habit of answering questions that aren't directed at him.

That I do.

[sykedoc]

I LOVE Google Translate:

I do not like the first two statements. The first because it seems to me that if the anus give a warning that the person is fired may have a chance to guard against is killed. speaking of off / powers etc. .. The second statement has no meat to it.
Because I do not want to be obviously the one.

The part about the anus is fun.

[sykedoc]

Syke gets more bonus points for that avatar. Anyone else who can identify where it comes from also gets those points.

I'm rewatching it because its been forever since the first time.

@DN I think ani is already aware of that. I don't think it'd fly well if he just shot.

[sykedoc]

I like this person already.

[sykedoc]

Did he just claim at L-4?

[sykedoc]

I do not. I would have waited until asked to claim or I would've actually claimed yesterday during my wagon.

[sykedoc]

I was so tempted to say Mod: Can you fig his tags, I think he forgot to [sarcasm]

[sykedoc]

I reserve the right to "Har Har" if you flip scum. I also reserve the right to headdesk if you're town.

[sykedoc]

Sorry but I'm very confused.
@Ivy: I don't understand what it is you're saying about Mae.
@Spy: I'm not quite clear on your point either.
@Ani: Thoughts on this whole mess?
@DP: I don't think there is a Nekomata vig/sk either, I just don't feel like there has been enough of a hint to assume that.

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: Didn't see the new post.
Scratch that question, I now know ani's thoughts. on this

[sykedoc]

*headdesk*

DUN DUN DUNNNNNN.
Saw that one coming from thirty miles away.

[sykedoc]

I reserve an order for Ani to shoot Parama

if DN flips town

.

Implied he wanted you to shoot DN first.

[sykedoc]

Yay! I was talking to you on AIM the other day about your Umineko game!
WHATUP!

[sykedoc]

Big mess, need to process this all and will post again.

[sykedoc]

Mod: my internet is kerploding lately (which is leading to my lack of posting) can you take me as V/LA for a little? A week at most.

[sykedoc]

^Did I miss why you thought this? My internet has been screwy.

[sykedoc]

-syke sushpected SSK for his'h unraisined vhote and lurking, but no FFF reed and he dish-uh-pear'ed before FFF waghon took off at end uh the day..

My internet broke compadre. It just got fixed so I'm still sorting things out.

[sykedoc]

@UK: Unless I missed something, I agree with you.

@Mae: "Either that or the moderator a bastard grade and I shot him my imaginary hat."
Sorry, if you can rephrase that or I can understand what "I shot him my imaginary hat" means that would be lovely.

@Spyrex: I don't have enough on my mind to say they are paired or they aren't. If I had to lean towards one side I would probably say they aren't just because they wouldn't make it that obvious.

[sykedoc]

@LF: I am not dead you twat!

[sykedoc]

@UK: Is this a colloquialism I don't understand?

[sykedoc]

I had a hard laugh there.
The first time I looked at that I expected a gun somewhere.

[sykedoc]

Mod: It was a joke but whatever.

[sykedoc]

I do not have a PR.

Thought you might need that.

[sykedoc]

Since you're around how abouts you explain why you said ....yet the first time you claimed no PR.

Why I said what?

[sykedoc]

EBWOP: also I have no PR... yet.

Compare that to me:

And, fyi, I have a post restriction. It isn't active...yet.

----

Why did you add in the yet?

I'm confused, what are you talking about?

[sykedoc]

Ohhhhhh. It was a comment on B-Mod, I don't have a PR unless SC decides to go Bastard on me.

[sykedoc]

Hmmmm, fair enough.

I really need to decide what direction to go from here.

Here's another one though: Why do you think you're still alive after you softclaimed?

Honestly? I think they have people they'd rather go after then me. You've got a bigger target on your back because you're catching scum. I'm unconfirmed and some people still find me suspicious, I don't think they have a great reason to kill me.

Just my two cents.

[sykedoc]

As an outsider who really has the best chance of winning if we pull this together:

Thoughts on a massclaim?

----

Yea you can count that as an Amished vote

Could work or could fail miserably.

[sykedoc]

He {syke} attacks basically everyone that did attack him all game.

ISO 80 he hops onto DocPotter, the biggest wagon of the time.

Yup, attacks Rifka for voting for him (ISO 97)

Defends Kai's absence (ISO 108)

Syke votes for Parama while attacking Doc (121) Get's questioned/attacked about it, flips back to DocPotter in 127.

Has a problem with Anon in the Alliance even though he gives Anon credit for posting a case against Syke (so did Kairyuu) (ISO 139-140)

142 says that it's unlikely to get a CSL lynch, but votes for him in 145 anyways.

And he hasn't said shit since Day 1.

Exactly an hour! Perfect!

A few things:
1) I'm not intentionally being inactive. My internet was half broken for about a month and now I'm in the middle of midterms and moderating a game of my own. Non-intentional.
2)Bringing up me defending Kai's absence is silly. I talk to him all the time, so if his computer is broken theres no reason for me not to tell you.
3)I vote with Spy because I agreed to vote with Spy.
4) FYI: Anon had a problem with ME in the alliance. I said that I wouldn't care but Anon would most likely throw a tantrum, which he did.
5) I didn't exactly see people jumping all over Kai, don't call me out for that.
6) Everything else you mentioned has been discusses Ad Nauseum.

Also take note of this:
SK- American Mafia
Kai- American Mafia
SSK/FFFF -Greek Mafia

Didn't all these people try to kill me at one point or another?

While Fishy, who flipped town, practically chainsaw defensed me.

Its odd how you're looking very hard for connections. I think you're seeing things that aren't there.

Yup.

[sykedoc]

BTW: Does anyone else smell deflection?

[sykedoc]

Ohh I'll post my list before this day ends.

Ray go ahead and list out your protects (even though we know what you're going to say regardless).

This brings up some interesting questions.

Sykedoc: Claim

Ok if we're doing massclaim

Role: Jailkeeper.

Protect + Roleblock one person per night.

Targets: Night 1: Spy
Night 2: Spy

[sykedoc]

Before anyone asks me to clairfy: I win with town.

[sykedoc]

Hmmmm.

Rifka - Claim

It may be awhile, got some popcorn?

[sykedoc]

This game entirely makes my head hurt.

@UK I doubt scum would push their own lynch to make you headdesk.

[sykedoc]

If you absolutely must shoot me I don't mind, but its really up to you considering I may have kept Spy alive one of those two nights and if I die its possible he dies.

[sykedoc]

If you absolutely must shoot me I don't mind, but its really up to you considering I may have kept Spy alive one of those two nights and if I die its possible he dies.

Um, I wasn't going to shoot you.

I wasn't talking to you specifically. I was just making a general statement.

[sykedoc]

Alrighty.

Vote: UK

[sykedoc]

Alrighty.

Vote: UK

happy scumday

vote: UK

Shanks <3

[sykedoc]

I would be much dismayed if i did not keep up the end of my bargain.

Unvote, Vote UK

Happy ScumDay sykedoc.

<3

[sykedoc]

Jailed SpyreX again.

[sykedoc]

I saw that as a suggestion, not an order...

[sykedoc]

Its viable then isn't it? Its likely one of the PRs alive is mafia right?

[sykedoc]

Its viable then isn't it? Its likely one of the PRs alive is mafia right?

Eu só sei que não sou. Se o Jahudo for, então não sei mesmo.

E já agora, porque é que achas isso?

Well we killed one PR mafia, I'd say in a game this big theres a good chance at having two PR scum.

I mean I could be wrong. I'm just saying this is a possibility, considering the last four scum we killed were non-PR. One more is likely. At this point it might be worth a try since a large number of scum are dead.

[sykedoc]

We've killed two PR mafias (one from each flipped group thus far).

I only see one Post-Restricted scum in the dead list?

[sykedoc]

Two things:

1) It seems logical, that's why I brought it up

2) I lost The Game

[sykedoc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_%28mind_game%29

[sykedoc]

I tend to agree with Jah,

PR is a bit of an interpretation of what you're given, and Richard just wanted to be a spazzer. He DID change his posting style when we pointed out that theres better ways to do drunk then he was doing. Yup.

[sykedoc]

I'm astounded.

[sykedoc]

Small change of plans - but if you trust ani and I this is game set match.

Ray protect ani. Rifka jail me. Lynch starbuck or jah I guess but.

Tomorrow will be the end of the game and a town win barring pure madness.

So it is written.

Two things:
1) Why did we shoot Ivy? I come back from chores and ivy is dead, what?
2) Shall I do something tonight or do you just expect me to jail you spy?

[sykedoc]

Have I lost my mind without my notes? Lord I can't keep skye and rifka separate.

K no more posts from me for a bit

Oh ok lol didn't see this.