Mini 934 - Troubles at Smiths&Catharts (Game Over!)

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

[Kids, the moral to this post is to never bandwagon.]

Really? Feels like you're just stalling. Well not just, also backpedaling.

You're post, it confuses me.
Are you saying that you want me to jump on a wagon?

[Ythan]

[Kids, the moral to this post is to never bandwagon.]

Really? Feels like you're just stalling. Well not just, also backpedaling.

You're post, it confuses me.
Are you saying that you want me to jump on a wagon?

Nope. I'm saying you're making a tongue in cheek criticism of the bandwagon after saying you think NS is scum and then backing off.

[TheCheshireCat]

@Chesire - So, to re ask the question, do you find Ray scummy, why/why not? If not; why do you support an anti-town lynch?

First, thank you for your explaination, I found it informative. Second, the answer to your question:
If I base my supicsions on what ppl you have played with Ray before have said, he is acting very scummy compared to his town meta, (but then again he is breaking meta). But just with my own experiance with Ray(which is none) he has not done anyting 'scummy', just hasn't done a whole lot to help the town find out who is scum, so in that would be anti-town from your explaination.But in my opionion, if your not helping town, your helping scum by distracting town from finding actaul scum.
... i think that answers it... if not let me know

[Thor665]

@Cheshire - so you're basically saying you're content to vote a townie who seems distracting rather then questing for a scum to vote for? Do you have any proactive plans for pursuing scum, what and where are they? If you do not then aren't you being anti-town? If you're being anti-town do you think I and others should vote for you just as much as you are voting Ray?

[1]I shouldn't have said either way he's scum, I'll admit that was a bit much, but either way to me it does look very suspicious.
[2]I didn't vote because I would like to see what NS does.
[3][Kids, the moral to this post is to never bandwagon.]

Wow... (numbered for response)

1. So basically you think he has bandwagoned on Ray and thus you feel he is scum and you claim no attitude on Ray either way.

2. You have just said you see him as scum either bussing his partner or bandwagoning. Why would you wait to see what happens? How is it advantageous to not vote for obv. scum like Nobody Special?

3. I'm pretty sure bandwagoning is a basic part of the game - how do you think people need to get on votes?

@Copper - what are your thoughts on ScramblestheDeathDealer's recent reaction to Nobody Special?

@Zorblag - what are your thoughts on Ythan's vote and unvote of RayFrost?

@Saijin - do you hate Kakarot?

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

3. I'm pretty sure bandwagoning is a basic part of the game - how do you think people need to get on votes?

There is a difference between agreeing and bandwagoning.
Agreeing is:
"Yes, I believe he is scum, therefore I shall vote."
Bandwagoning is:
"Meh, everyone else thinks that, so I'ma go ahead and vote too."

[Thor665]

Though I do not find myself much impressed by Nobody Special's method I also do not find it convincing to suggest that he didn't indicate "Yes, I believe he is scum, therefore I shall vote."

In any case I would note that even if you do believe this that Ythan's vote on Ray was *far* more indicative of "Meh, everyone else thinks that, so I'ma go ahead and vote too." then Nobody Special's and you didn't seem to get excited about Ythan's actions. What's up with that?

[Copper]

@Copper - what are your thoughts on ScramblestheDeathDealer's recent reaction to Nobody Special?

It's hasty, ill informed, and contradictory, but it's also something I can (just) see as reasonable if you're coming from a viewpoint of "bandwagoning is scummy".

Scrambles, the fact is that bandwagoning is a crucial part of the game. It's entirely fallacious to say "Nobody Special voted Rayfrost without strong reasoning: whatever Ray flips, Nobody Special is doing this from a scummy viewpoint". Some high pressure wagoning is exactly what the town needs right now to establish an atmosphere that's not so scum-friendly. Obviously, not every non-contributor is scum or we'd be endgamed already. But the first step to finding the scum is making everyone speak up. As long as the scum can hide in silence without being struck I can't imagine how you hope to find them.

On the note, there has been entirely too little voting in this game. I want everyone not voting to vote for someone in their next post.

Sotty, it's an interesting line of thought you're following on SFG's replacement, but I'd be careful not to look too hard. There are many reasons people want to replace out of games, and I'm not so sure I'm comfortable ascribing a clear scum motivation to SFG leaving. That being said, it's the prevailing wisdom that scum replace out proportionally more than townies, and that's something I certainly intend to keep in mind.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

I must have been learnded wrong then, because in my first town game most used wagoning as a scumtell. Excuse my mafia illiteracy.

[Thor665]

In any case I would note that even if you do believe this that Ythan's vote on Ray was *far* more indicative of "Meh, everyone else thinks that, so I'ma go ahead and vote too." then Nobody Special's and you didn't seem to get excited about Ythan's actions. What's up with that?

Re-asked to Scrambles, because, though the good Lord knows I love to hear myself talk, I would like an answer to this one.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

The reason I didn't answer in prev. post is Im on a PSP, which has godawful typing. I'll get to it tomorrow, if you can wait

[Pomegranate]

I am busy tonight and will hopefully get a good post up tomorrow night.

[Sotty7]

Scrambles, how long are you willing to wait for NS before you do decide to vote him? Why is this different from the other votes you have placed so far in the game?

Cooper, I understand what you are saying and agree to a point, I am not completely sold on SFG scum. Sajin needs to get in here and start playing his lurking isn't helping matters at all.

I am also still waiting on Ray. If he doesn't post some real content by the end of today he will be getting my vote as well.

[TheCheshireCat]

@Cheshire - so you're basically saying you're content to vote a townie who seems distracting rather then questing for a scum to vote for? Do you have any proactive plans for pursuing scum, what and where are they? If you do not then aren't you being anti-town? If you're being anti-town do you think I and others should vote for you just as much as you are voting Ray?

Okay first of all, if you look at vote count 1.5, you will see that I am currently not voting anyone. And if an anti-town player is all we have to vote then that is what we have. But i would much rather lynch scum, as for plans, i am just waiting for someone to slip up at the moment, so no i dont ahve any 'plans' for pursuing scum at the moment.

On the note, there has been entirely too little voting in this game. I want everyone not voting to vote for someone in their next post.

If you say so.

vote: Zorblag

I'm just done with an unexpectedly pleasant (if internet-free) weekend. I'll take a look at where we are when I get done teaching today and have some input.

He said this two days ago, trying to fly under the radar.
@Zorblag: Can you please put your input into the game?

[TheCheshireCat]

Oh i would also like something from Sajin, it has been three days since he has been 'reading up'.

[Thor665]

But i would much rather lynch scum, as for plans, i am just waiting for someone to slip up at the moment, so no i dont ahve any 'plans' for pursuing scum at the moment.

I do not approve of this plan since I have yet to see the game when scum post up a comment along the lines of "Hai guyz, I am scummorz and shall night kill ya soon!" If you want scum to "slip up" it is intrinsic upon *you* to generate actions, reactions, and conversation in order to create that slip up.

Can you explain how you sitting quietly on the sidelines waiting for a "slip up" is less scummy then Zorblag's attempts to "fly under the radar?"

Also, as noted by Col.Cathart; Saijin is being prodded.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

Scrambles, how long are you willing to wait for NS before you do decide to vote him? Why is this different from the other votes you have placed so far in the game?

I am not fond of NS's lurking. Especially since he has posted in other games after I called him out on st00f. I like to let people defend themselves before I vote, however.

And to hopefully satisfy Thor,

In any case I would note that even if you do believe this that Ythan's vote on Ray was *far* more indicative of "Meh, everyone else thinks that, so I'ma go ahead and vote too." then Nobody Special's and you didn't seem to get excited about Ythan's actions. What's up with that?

I didn't get excited over Ythans actions because he was one of the first voters. Being one of the first = less scummy, IMO.

[Thor665]

I didn't get excited over Ythans actions because he was one of the first voters. Being one of the first = less scummy, IMO.

Ythan was third.
Nobody Special was fourth.

Seriously now, why isn't Ythan scummy if Nobody Special is? Ythan even couldn't come out and say "I think Ray is scummy" (NS did) and instead went with the "everyone else says Ray is acting scummy" concept which you specifically cited as a scum tell in your eyes and you still haven't explained how you feel NS did this when I said I didn't see that from him at all.

This feels like a weakly concocted explanation to cover for either a lack of logic/consideration in your vote or to cover for being scummy in your vote.

@ All Lurkers - stop it.

[Ythan]

I find Scrambles' case on Zorblag to be highly selective. And Thor, I never said that I was voting Ray because others found him scummy. What I said was that I was trusting other players' accounts of his meta.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

Seriously now, why isn't Ythan scummy if Nobody Special is? Ythan even couldn't come out and say "I think Ray is scummy"
@ All Lurkers - stop it.

Ythan hasn't lurked, and

I don't know Rayscum but this is definitely different from Raytown I've known. He says he's breaking meta but that doesn't completely do away with it.

actually helped the wagon, instead of saying "That's disturbing."

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

I find

Scrambles'

case on Zorblag to be highly selective.

LOLWUT

[Ythan]

I got your avatars mixed up. x:

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

I got your avatars mixed up. x:

Lol me and Zorblag's?

[Ythan]

No you and Ches. Ches's case. She picks out ZORBLAG to put her vote on of all people, based on not much at all.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

No you and Ches.

Ahhh. I see.

[Thor665]

And Thor, I never said that I was voting Ray because others found him scummy. What I said was that I was trusting other players' accounts of his meta.

Other player: Hey, Ythan, we have meta evidence that Ray is scum - vote Ray for great justice!1!!

Ythan: I suppose I could ask for evidence of this being Ray's scum meta, or perhaps I could say that I agree he is acting scummy. Instead I will say that I don't find him scummy and shall also vote Ray because clearly justice is involved.

Thor665: Ythan is the scummorx!

Ythan: No, no, you got me wrong. You see I was just trusting their evidence without researching it or offering evidence of my own - that is definitely not scummy behavior.

I really don't see that defense as clearing you unless you are interpreting it in a way that is really different from me. Please extrapolate out your concept if you are now ready to actually respond to my accusations.