Newbie #915 (Game Over!)

[horrordude0215]

Yes, he had a language barrier, but I don't see how if he was reading, comprehending, and posting when the pressure wasn't on him, why he couldn't continue when it was...

I would say from the look of things his language barrier was more like a language Great Wall of China tbh. He probably only replied to posts that had his name mentioned cos of that (he had no idea wtf was going on)- I don't think he could really meaningfully contribute apart from that (not that it was actually meaningful

or

helpful)

Of course you would think that... but I still think he could have contributed more if he really wanted to.

My case is NOT OMGUS... I had my suspicions on him before he had his on me... why is that so hard for people to understand?

There are different kinds of OMGUS to me, the obvious one where you vote someone who voted for you or the one where you try hard to build a case against someone who voted for you and gave good reasons. THAT is what you are doing. You went from casting your vote on him for stupid reasons in 282, to backpedaling slightly at the start of 289 because most of your reasons were BS, to ploughing straight on again, grasping at different straws.

If you notice, you just described what ToD did to me... I didn't backpedal in 289... I really did misread his post, and I was apologizing for it. You seem to be grasping at straws trying to make a case on me...

Quote:
Quote:

My pointing out that you are suggesting a WIFOM bullshit case is me putting suspicion on you.
You seem to assume here that ANYBODY shooting down another player's arguments is trying to throw suspicion on them (not true), or at least admitting that was what you were doing.
I was saying that him suggesting a WIFOM case is not a good idea, and that I suspected him because of it... don't take my quotes out of context please. I never said that that's the case every time... I was only referring to this time in my case.

I did NOT take anything out of context. ToD noted he saw nothing in 196 that threw suspicion on him,

you replied that your pointing out WIFOM in his argument was you putting suspicion on him.

This says to me you have a scummy agenda - also just noting, WIFOM seems to have reached 'bogeyman' status in this game.

Explain how the bolded part = scummy agenda... I would LOVE to hear your explanation for that one. Also, how is WIFOM a 'bogeman status'?

Actually, all of his points have been OMGUS and WIFOM... none of them have been very valid.

No, just no.

Explain.

No... what he was trying to do with that is assume his power role as IC to manipulate town and make them believe his bullshit case.

No, he was not. 'I defer to my own authority and experience' means exactly what I said. Even if you never heard that phrase before, look at the wording. "

I

defer to

my own

authority and experience." Nothing bout the town there, your response is a hugely exaggerated panic attack on him.

No panic attack that I saw... all I saw was a scummy IC trying to manipulate town and get them to vote how he wanted.

Finally,

This is one of the most intelligent posts you've made so far in this thread. Thank you for that.

(@ DK's quick n dirty vote for ToD)

Is buddying to a player who's done little but lurk since the start, and whose personal reason for voting ToD doesn't stand up too well.

It's not me buddying to him. ToD completely dropped his case against DK, and he was pointing out the scumminess in that play. Explain how that was a quick and dirty vote for ToD and what was so bad about me thanking him for putting himself in the line of fire by encouraging Trumpet to focus on him is buddying.

[DiamondCrash]

I'll be the first to admit that I was way off on my Zodiark read, but even you should agree: He was the scummiest player and the best lynch at the time.

"Even" I? Explain. I wasn't exactly "pro-Zodiark", either.

Then when discussion seemed to stop because of ToD's V/LA, I unvoted and switched my focus to RF, the second scummiest player, to help jump start it again.

Why the vote switch?

If anyone has any comments or questions for me, don't hesitate... I always try my best to help the town out and I feel like I could still be a very good addition to this one.

So you've never played as scum?

He probably only replied to posts that had his name mentioned cos of that (he had no idea wtf was going on)- I don't think he could really meaningfully contribute apart from that (not that it was actually meaningful

or

helpful)

Of course you would think that... but I still think he could have contributed more if he really wanted to.

"Of course you would think that"? Why would Shad think that?[/quote]

[Shadsticle]

You seem to be grasping at straws trying to make a case on me...

I don't have to, you keep presenting them to me.

Explain how the bolded part = scummy agenda... I would LOVE to hear your explanation for that one. Also, how is WIFOM a 'bogeman status'?

You revealed your motive in pointing out the WIFOM was to get ToD lynched rather than simply to disprove the argument and move on - not a necessarily a very strong scumtell, but combined with everything else it's valid, I felt, and still do.

'Bogeyman' meant here it's some ill-defined threat that seems to pop up everywhere. I reckon OMGUS has grown into this role now, though. It's funny you try so hard to find OMGUS in the votes on you (the vote timing and other factors don't even seem to matter), yet deny it factors in your votes AT ALL. Careful - any more cognitive dissonance, your head might rip in two .

Explain (about ToD's posts)

Nah, go read 'em yourself. He had a good few valid points, and a couple of weaker ones (the semantics over 'a pro-town IC' or 'the pro-town IC, or whatever that was, was pretty feeble for example).

One more thing he was spot on about is your know-it-all post style in this game. Writing blatant falsehoods as facts does not make them so.

Explain how that was a quick and dirty vote for ToD and what was so bad about me thanking him for putting himself in the line of fire by encouraging Trumpet to focus on him is buddying.

DK's vote irked me because he's posted little compared to ToD, and his sole reason was that ToD switched his vote from DK to you. ToD's vote switched to you because you are scummy, simple as. ToD's not clean, but you are worse.


I'd like to hear what AlGM, DK and DC have to say bout Horror, any thoughts at the moment?


@ ToD: You think kill speculation is a useful tool, but surely only after a confirmed Mafia lynch or some other lead? I don't really see how the first Night Kill is useful - you end up with WIFOM.

I didn't say OMGUS was a reason. I said it wasn't the only reason.

You seem to directly contradict yourself here. Was it a reason? Wasn't it? You made yourself a target by using WIFOM and OMGUS (even asking for four day kills... I know it's a joke, but it was a silly one)

@AlGM: Noticed this from way back

Your contention that I have to explain why my argument isn't something is ridiculous. You have the burden of proof here, and you are not meeting it.

Calling Deer out for this seems pretty odd when you posted:

DiamondCrash and Zodiark13 as a scumbuddies. Discuss.

Does adding 'discuss' remove burden of proof from a statement? Or why do you not think it applies to that case?

@DC:

If I'm right, Mind Screw sounds like an odd game without the standatd roles. Plus, newbie games are rather different to others in some respects. So you're using a completely different style of play to justify your actions?

I didn't read the thread in question fully, but I think he was just saying people switched votes a lot in it, roles have little to do with it. @ToD again though, it doesn't seem like a good explanation to just link a past game and say 'here, read this'.

[horrordude0215]

I'll be the first to admit that I was way off on my Zodiark read, but even you should agree: He was the scummiest player and the best lynch at the time.

"Even" I? Explain. I wasn't exactly "pro-Zodiark", either.

It was just a statement... I knew that someone (probably Shad or Trumpet) would jump on the fact that I was pushing the Z lynch and I wanted to stop that argument before it started.

Then when discussion seemed to stop because of ToD's V/LA, I unvoted and switched my focus to RF, the second scummiest player, to help jump start it again.

Why the vote switch?

A vote puts more pressure on someone, and I find it better than just a FoS

If anyone has any comments or questions for me, don't hesitate... I always try my best to help the town out and I feel like I could still be a very good addition to this one.

So you've never played as scum?

No

He probably only replied to posts that had his name mentioned cos of that (he had no idea wtf was going on)- I don't think he could really meaningfully contribute apart from that (not that it was actually meaningful

or

helpful)

Of course you would think that... but I still think he could have contributed more if he really wanted to.

"Of course you would think that"? Why would Shad think that?

Of course Shad would say that in order to try and get suspicion thrown off of him, just using the excuse that RF had a language barrier (which if true, why was he able to post and comprehend when the pressure was on Zodiark instead of himself?) to remove suspicion from him

[horrordude0215]

Explain how the bolded part = scummy agenda... I would LOVE to hear your explanation for that one. Also, how is WIFOM a 'bogeman status'?

You revealed your motive in pointing out the WIFOM was to get ToD lynched rather than simply to disprove the argument and move on - not a necessarily a very strong scumtell, but combined with everything else it's valid, I felt, and still do.

Show me where I admitted that it was to get him lynched... I said that it was an attack, me suspecting him for trying to get people to follow WIFOM... twisting my words around isn't looking good for you...

It's funny you try so hard to find OMGUS in the votes on you (the vote timing and other factors don't even seem to matter), yet deny it factors in your votes AT ALL. Careful - any more cognitive dissonance, your head might rip in two .

Show me where I am OMGUSing... show me where someone voted for me and then after that I voted for then... hell, show me where someone SUSPECTS me and then I attack them. Show me, but make sure that I didn't suspect/vote for them first. Show me that, and then we'll talk.

Explain (about ToD's posts)

Nah, go read 'em yourself. He had a good few valid points, and a couple of weaker ones (the semantics over 'a pro-town IC' or 'the pro-town IC, or whatever that was, was pretty feeble for example)

That wasn't a good example... that was ToD twisting my words around to make me seem scummy.

Explain how that was a quick and dirty vote for ToD and what was so bad about me thanking him for putting himself in the line of fire by encouraging Trumpet to focus on him is buddying.

DK's vote irked me because he's posted little compared to ToD, and his sole reason was that ToD switched his vote from DK to you. ToD's vote switched to you because you are scummy, simple as. ToD's not clean, but you are worse.

His vote irked you. Let's look at his post. He asked ToD why he completely dropped his case against him, noticed the scumminess in that, and proceeded to vote for him off of that scumminess. I thought that was one of his more logical posts and pointed that out.

[Shadsticle]

Ok, now I'm convinced you're being obtuse on purpose.

You went from being only suspicious of me because of RedFox, to being 100% convinced of my guilt after I voted you. Blatant OMGUS. ToD is correct about you using OMGUS on him as well. 196 does not really contain enough to look like an attack. 198(his post) puts his FoS on you, 203 you jump on his bandwagon, then later try to say 196 was what made him finger you originally. Bullshit, like so much of your cases.

Does anyone apart from Horror find any problems with my case on him?

@ToD in relation to that particular group of posts (198 in particular), your initial reason for having the finger on Horror seems suss to me, as he's correct in pointing out that WIFOM applies. Why did you pick that particular reason to start a case on Horror?

[horrordude0215]

Ok, now I'm convinced you're being obtuse on purpose.

You went from being only suspicious of me because of RedFox, to being 100% convinced of my guilt after I voted you. Blatant OMGUS.

Wrong. Your vote wasn't what made me 100% convinced of your guilt... your weak reasoning and complete OMGUSing of me is what made me sure of your guilt.

And look, you didn't say that I was wrong about your guilt... thanks for proving it to me!

ToD is correct about you using OMGUS on him as well. 196 does not really contain enough to look like an attack. 198(his post) puts his FoS on you, 203 you jump on his bandwagon, then later try to say 196 was what made him finger you originally. Bullshit, like so much of your cases.

You

don't have to think that it looked like an attack, but it was. You can keep defending your scumbuddy. That way, even if I'm lynched today, lylo tomorrow will be easy for everyone else!


BTW, a question for everyone.

If I'm lynched today, who will your suspects be tomorrow?

[Dreadknight]

ToD wrote

I refuse to claim until and unless someone threatens to hammer, but I damn well better not actually be hammered until I do claim.

Seriously? What if you are hammered without a claim request? What will you do? Your threat is empty. This is garbage. Is this supposed to scare us? And its not like it will matter what you claim, seriously man. After all, Zod claimed and it didn't matter to you. I was just looking back and saw this. I am positive you are scum now.

Shad, that wasn't the only reason I voted for ToD. I just went ahead and put my vote instead of saying, "Yea, what Alamaster and Horror said."

[Trumpet of Doom]

If I'm right, Mind Screw sounds like an odd game without the standatd roles. Plus, newbie games are rather different to others in some respects. So you're using a completely different style of play to justify your actions?

Yes, most of the roles (and a few game-specific rules) were a bit non-standard (okay, more than a bit). Yes, newbie games are different in some ways from most/all other games on this site (you know all the possible roles, most of the players are new to the site if not to the game, there are some players whose job in the game is to teach the newer players how to play). However, "different in some respects" definitely does not equal "completely different" - in fact, the whole purpose of newbie games is to teach you how the game is played elsewhere on the site. So no, I'm not "using a completely different style of play to justify my actions." (Since there seems to have been some confusion: The point I was trying to make by linking the game was that even experienced scum kill based on who suspects them - the Godfather outright admitted in postgame discussion that "the mafia nightkilled everyone who suspected [him].")

How is me pointing out that the IC is suggesting WIFOM, my attempt at a small attack, not considered putting suspicion on you?

There's a town way of attacking (though scum do this too) - "You did X, that's scummy, diescumdie." There's a way of attacking that's scummy because it insinuates but doesn't actually vote, FoS, or even IGMEOY - DC has a couple of posts this game that are like that. You didn't even insinuate I was scummy for suggesting what I did.

I didn't focus as much on my other suspects as I probably should have. But that's to be expected from a noob, isn't it? But from the IC, not really.

Frankly, I think I'd actually expect it more from an IC (who at least thinks they know what they're doing) than a newb (who, basically by definition, is New At This, and recognizes that fact). If you want to ignore that until/unless I flip, I don't suppose I can't stop you - even I can tell how self-serving that sounds.

But wait a minute: Haven't you said you have at least a decent amount of experience with the game (enough to "use your past experience to know that" starting a case with WIFOM doesn't work, as you claimed in iso 49)? Ad now you're saying you're a newb? You can't have it both ways.

The first part of that post was only addressed to you as well.

Quote me the part that was addressed to me. I dare you.

If you insist...

Look at the timestamp of Our Lord Mods prod of Al. Now look at the time of Al's response to said prod. Unless my eyes or browser are decieveing me, there is a three minute difference between the two..

This points to the fact that you were active on the site, but ignoring this game. Either that, or you have the most impeccable timing ever.

I see nothing in there that implicates me at all. All of that quote is about AGM. If you're going to say I was active on site and ignoring the game, I require links.

My scumbuddy jumped all over it? First of all, tunnel less please. Secondly, AGM (who you're claiming is my "scumbuddy") never once even mentioned that I don't think. *Checks ISO* Nope... not at all!

1. Tunnel less? Quit being scum.
2. Last paragraph of post 300. Read it and weep.

I said that

IF

you were a pro-town IC, then you would not lurk or suggest the things you do.

I don't know if that's what you meant or not, but it's definitely not what you said.

That is what I meant... the fact that you're twisting my words around and putting them out of context is complete scummyness.

I didn't twist your words at all. I took exactly what you said and interpreted it down to the letter of what you wrote.

He hasn't yet mentioned why he lurked all of D1 as the IC!!!

Sure I did. On D1, in fact. (It boils down to: Senior year, a bazillion AP classes, and high school band in Texas.)

So why even bring it up?

Basically, to let it speak for itself.

I've mainly only played on chat mafia (where I've gotten my experience), so there's really no links to provide...

Convenient.

I have 1 completed game on this site. You can find it on my wiki.

Looking at it does nothing to suggest to me that you are town here. If anything, it provides one more bullet point to suggest that you aren't.

If EVERYTHING THAT HE HAS DONE is scummy, then why completely contradict yourself? That would seem like a pretty obvious scum read on DK, wouldn't it?

*sigh* Down to basics it is.

There are newbtells.
There are scumtells.
There is a sufficiently large amount of overlap between the two that what DK has done this game lands in the middle of it, and although I'd like to be able to, I can't really tell how much is newb and how much is scum.

I didn't say that... I was just wondering why you're willing to dismiss others as noob, but not me.

Ah, okay. As I believe I've stated earlier, bullshit is a scumtell, not a newbtell.

ToD, why did you completely abandon your case on me? You seemed pretty sure, and then, woop, done. "Oh, those two are targeting me?! Return fire! "

See my response to two quotes up.

Tell me how you're town. Use posts containing you pro-town-ness, blow your own pipe as much as you want... and the same to ToD.

I'm town because horrordude's scum making horrible attacks on me, is the really simple version. If you want a longer version, I suppose I can work something up this weekend... maybe.

You think kill speculation is a useful tool, but surely only after a confirmed Mafia lynch or some other lead?

The lead is "who did the dead guy suspect?" There are some other things you can do once you've lynched scum, though.

I don't really see how the first Night Kill is useful - you end up with WIFOM.

I feel like a broken record. The point I've been trying to make is that unless there was some really obvious reason for the nightkill (like if TW had been driven to L-1 and claimed doc, or if the kill had been on me), scum killed whomever they did because he was on to one of them, and it's in scum's best interest to get rid of people who suspect them (since unless someone else does something pretty scummy, the scum are likely to remain the biggest contributors of scummy material, and since that player already thinks they're scum, they'll be looking at them more closely). I don't know how else to explain this. I mean, I do have a published dislike for the belief (all too prevalent on this site, IMO) that kill speculation is scummy.

@ToD in relation to that particular group of posts (198 in particular), your initial reason for having the finger on Horror seems suss to me, as he's correct in pointing out that WIFOM applies. Why did you pick that particular reason to start a case on Horror?

Because I'd basically forgotten that DK was even in the game, let alone that I'd called him scummy, and figured that since none of the more obvious reasons for the kill applied as far as I could tell, "who'd suspected TW" was a decent starting point.

If I'm lynched today, who will your suspects be tomorrow?

AGM: I think I've explained this one enough.
DC: This one's mostly gut... I don't really remember him taking a strong stand on anything, but as I mentioned at the top of this post, he's had a few posts where it feels like he's tried to insinuate I'm scummy without outright saying it. If I live to D3, I'm taking a closer look at him.

What if you are hammered without a claim request? What will you do?

Depends. If I can get on between the hammer and the time the mod locks the thread, there are a few instructions I'd like to give for LyLo. If not (which is more likely, since DC's Irish, the mod's English, and I'm here in the States), I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope AGM tells you what SOP is for LyLo.

And its not like it will matter what you claim, seriously man. After all, Zod claimed and it didn't matter to you.

No, it did matter. He claimed vanilla, and the correct play for a VT claim at L-1 is to lynch the player who makes it.

Is this supposed to scare us?

Let's put it this way: If DC hammers me without asking for a claim, he needs to be put under serious scrutiny D3.

[horrordude0215]

How is me pointing out that the IC is suggesting WIFOM, my attempt at a small attack, not considered putting suspicion on you?

There's a town way of attacking

(though scum do this too)

- "You did X, that's scummy, diescumdie." There's a way of attacking that's scummy because it insinuates but doesn't actually vote, FoS, or even IGMEOY - DC has a couple of posts this game that are like that. You didn't even insinuate I was scummy for suggesting what I did.

Oh I get it... because I don't do it how YOU say I should or how YOU would do it, then I'm obviously scum, right? We can't just have different playstyles?

And I gotta say, I LOVE the bolded part! You're saying that even if I did use the "town way of attacking", there's still a chance I could be scum? If you're not scum, you have a SERIOUS case of tunnel vision... I would recommend some glasses for ya

I didn't focus as much on my other suspects as I probably should have. But that's to be expected from a noob, isn't it? But from the IC, not really.

But wait a minute: Haven't you said you have at least a decent amount of experience with the game (enough to "use your past experience to know that" starting a case with WIFOM doesn't work, as you claimed in iso 49)? Ad now you're saying you're a newb? You can't have it both ways.

I consider myself to be semi-experienced. You don't. If I'm not experienced, I must be noob, right?

My scumbuddy jumped all over it? First of all, tunnel less please. Secondly, AGM (who you're claiming is my "scumbuddy") never once even mentioned that I don't think. *Checks ISO* Nope... not at all!

1. Tunnel less? Quit being scum.
2. Last paragraph of post 300. Read it and weep.

1.
2. Sorry, I must have missed that.. but now that I see it:

If ToD flips town, horror is absolutely scum. If ToD flips scum, horror might be bussing.

If Trumpet is town, I'm scum. But if he's scum, then I still might be scum? Really?

I said that

IF

you were a pro-town IC, then you would not lurk or suggest the things you do.

I don't know if that's what you meant or not, but it's definitely not what you said.

That is what I meant... the fact that you're twisting my words around and putting them out of context is complete scummyness.

I didn't twist your words at all. I took exactly what you said and interpreted it down to the letter of what you wrote.

You know very well that that's not what I meant when I said that, and you are jumping on the fact that I used the word "the" vs. "a" as a scumtell... explain to me how that's not twisting my words around.

He hasn't yet mentioned why he lurked all of D1 as the IC!!!

Sure I did. On D1, in fact. (It boils down to: Senior year, a bazillion AP classes, and high school band in Texas.)

Yes, you have a life outside of MS, I understand that. But still, from

A

pro-town IC, I would expect more posting and better content when you did get the chance to post.

I've mainly only played on chat mafia (where I've gotten my experience), so there's really no links to provide...

Convenient.

I have 1 completed game on this site. You can find it on my wiki.

Looking at it does nothing to suggest to me that you are town here. If anything, it provides one more bullet point to suggest that you aren't.

Oh, I'd love to hear this one... But did I say that that game would clear me? No I didn't. I was stating that the only game I completed on here could be found in my wiki. Why are you so quick to jump at little things that mean nothing?

If EVERYTHING THAT HE HAS DONE is scummy, then why completely contradict yourself? That would seem like a pretty obvious scum read on DK, wouldn't it?

*sigh* Down to basics it is.

There are newbtells.
There are scumtells.
There is a sufficiently large amount of overlap between the two that what DK has done this game lands in the middle of it, and although I'd like to be able to, I can't really tell how much is newb and how much is scum.

You seemed to be pretty confident on how scummy he was D1, no? How has your opinion changed from scumtells to newbtells?

I didn't say that... I was just wondering why you're willing to dismiss others as noob, but not me.

Ah, okay. As I believe I've stated earlier, bullshit is a scumtell, not a newbtell.

Exactly, which is why you're scum.

Tell me how you're town. Use posts containing you pro-town-ness, blow your own pipe as much as you want... and the same to ToD.

I'm town because horrordude's scum making horrible attacks on me, is the really simple version. If you want a longer version, I suppose I can work something up this weekend... maybe.

So because I'm attacking you, that means your town? And even if I WAS scum... isn't there such a thing as bussing? How the hell does that clear you?

[DiamondCrash]

Let's put it this way: If DC hammers me without asking for a claim, he needs to be put under serious scrutiny D3.

Hm. I don't think you should be the one that's worried about me hammering at the moment. Allow me to explain.

You have explained, copiously, that WIFOM is something which you like using. Fine. I'm sure that's not scummy, and just down to a matter of personal preference, and although it won't help to find scum, in my opinion, at least it promotes discussion. Horrordude's post was not an attack, thus his entire case, or at least the start of it, was OMGUS. Yours was not. So, point one; OMGUS or WIFOM never came into ToD's side of the argument.

People are using the excuse that you were lurking, and I suppose you were at the start. But, now, you are the second or third most active player. Thus, that's bridge under the water, and can hardly be applied now. Your hammer was a large discussion cornerstone, but it's not as if it wasn't justified. Zodiark's building a bit of reputation for that kind of thing. Second game with me, second first day lynch. Point two; The older points against your scuminess are now null and void.

Point three, with no need of justification, is that you've been using the most sound logic in your squabble with Horror.

Thus, at this point, Horror will be getting my hammer at some point in the future. How far depends on how much of this day is left, so,

@Mod; Fancy countown clock, please?

Do we have any objections to the points mentioned above?

[Shadsticle]

Thus, that's bridge under the water

First ToD hammers Zodiark too late, but now that's bridge under the water? Where do you live DC, Ballygobackwards?

[horrordude0215]

Ok so here's how I'm feeling right now.

I feel like the damage is done and there is no redemption for me. I don't know how to go about fixing this mess. I wasn't left in a good position when I replaced in, and the way my own words have been misconstrued and have placed me into a precarious position. I'm not going to replace out, because I wouldn't want a noobie to jump in at L-1.

Instead, I have a proposal. I want to be lynched. Lynch me, and then look closely at my bandwagon: I'm positive that there's at least 1, if not both, scum on it. I've already given my opinions on the situation multiple times... I believe that shad and trumpet are scum. I know that I could very well be way off in my reads, but the point remains... Most of you have your fingers pointed towards me which I know is wrong, but there's nothing that can be done about that. I'm the distraction that the mafia needs right now. The Mafia would be stupid to NK me because I'm currently taking the heat off them. If I'm not lynched today, I guarantee I will survive the NK. That leaves me around in lylo, and I know that the second a townie puts their vote on me, scum will double bandwagon for the win.

Right now I feel that the hill is too steep for me to climb and this is the best way for you, the townies, to get some answers. I'd rather go out today and get people on the right course for lylo. Getting rid of me now is the right choice.

So that's my proposition. Take me out for the greater good. Given that ToD is the only other lead besides myself, I'm probably your best bet due to the fact that I'm still learning how to properly play and get my attacks down. There's no use in dragging it out until the deadline.

Do the right thing people, but know that I will self-hammer if you need me too.

[iamausername]

@Mod; Fancy countown clock, please?

Protip: I always put a link to one in the first post of the thread.

But here's another, for your convenience.

[Deer]

Horrordude, I assume you claim VT?

[DiamondCrash]

But here's another, for your convenience.[/ooc]

Thank you.

@All; Is Horror's post a gambit? I think it is.

[Shadsticle]

I feel like the damage is done and there is no redemption for me. I don't know how to go about fixing this mess. I wasn't left in a good position when I replaced in, and the way my own words have been misconstrued and have placed me into a precarious position

AtE, someone Hammer before my heart breaks . The rest is just a false dilemma and irrelevant.

I would still like to hear from

AGM, maybe a prod is in order please mod?

[horrordude0215]

Yes, I claim VT, no that's not AtE, it's not a gambit, and I really do have town's best interests at heart. I will self hammer in 24 hours unless told not to.

[Dreadknight]

Ok, I dont know if this is the best move to make, but, I looked at the odds, and I think this is the best move for me to make for a town win.

I am a cop, last night I investigated Horror, and he is town. I thought after Zodiark flipped town Horror was scum, but, I was suprised to see that he wasn't. hence me not pursuing Horror to start Day 2.

This is why I have lurked and played safe. I saw that I couldn't match the posting of ToD, and didn't want to risk my position. But, looking now, if Horror is lynched, its lylo most likely, and I didn't want to risk being Nk'ed. If I was NK'ed then my position was put to waste, and if I survived the night, Im not sure people would beleive me anyway.

I think this is the best move for town. Don't self lynch Horror. DC, dont lynch him he is town. We don't need to go to LYLO.

Ok, There may or may not be a Doc or Roleblocker since I am a cop. :S

Also, it is clear that DC is town, because if he were scum, he could have agreed on the Arguments against horror and just proceeded with the lynch long ago. AGM is also town, because he could have probably just switched a while back and picked on Horror much the same as everyone else.

That leaves ToD, Shad, and Deer. I beleive Deer to be town, if not only for the fact that CP was one of the most valuable people to this game before his departure, and Deer has played a very logical game so far.

So, I beleive ToD and Shad to be scum.

DC, I really think that ToD at least is scum. Horror isn't and I implore you to not vote for Horror.

[DiamondCrash]

Double motherfunking plot twist, bro. We now have 4 hypothetical situations;

1. Lynch Horror. He's Town. Cop was right, night kill on cop possible. 2 scum, 3 town.
2. Lynch Horror. He's Scum. Cop is actually scum. Town win is certain.
3. Lynch ToD. He's Town. 2 scum, 3 town. Chances of winning significantly decrease.
4. Lynch ToD. He's Scum. 4 town, 1 scum. Chances of winning increase.

While 2 is alluring, it would take a sheer amount of balls on behalf of the scum. Then, a sheer amount of balls on my part to try it. Thus, I think a ToD lynch is best. Anyone object?

[Shadsticle]

Alright, please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this speculation:

If DK's claim is a scum gambit and Horrordude is his partner, scum cannot win as we will lynch them both by LyLo, even though they can get an innocent lynched today.

Just making sure, because I see absolutely nothing in his posts that redeem him as town - there's another scenario in my mind as well, but it also involves Horror being innocent:

If DK's claim is a scum gambit and Horrordude is NOT his partner, get ToD lynched today, he flips town and we lynch DK, he flips scum and we lynch Horror as his buddy, and it will be scum victory. That would be pretty good play - using Horror's dodgy play against the town.

Or - they're both telling the truth.

One way or another,

Unvote: Horrordude0215

, against all the signs, my gut, and his posts :/ . Obviously if someone counterclaims or whatever, there's more to consider. It's time for a re-read, I still stand by my opinion that Horror's case against ToD is 98% BS, so I'm not ready to push that wagon just yet. Will be looking hard at him all the same, along with DK and see if I can make my mind up.

Welp, in the meantime DC seems to have come to a similar conclusion, in far less words. If you're going to hammer ToD, at least wait 'til he claims, or we could potentially lose two PRs over this.

[horrordude0215]

Thanks Dread. Glad to know someone knows for sure that I'm town!

Shad, you say that 98% of my case is BS... what 2% do you believe? (Your logic seemed alright IMO though)

Deadline is 2 days away, however. I don't think we have much of a choice except to lynch either me or Trumpet.

Unless...

Mod: Requesting deadline extension

If we could get the extension, I'm all for looking at everyone again. If not though, we need to make sure we get a lynch down for fear of NL.

[Shadsticle]

The 2% I believe is to do with his encouraging people to check the first NK's suspect list as a starting point - especially if taken in context of you being a townie and him having ordered the kill. AGM's case on him was fairly sound as well.

Two days is a fair way away, I wouldn't panic over NL yet. I'm pretty much willing to hammer him now, unless he's gonna claim Doctor or something - even so I think he would be the most beneficial lynch. If he flips town, DK, AlaGM and DC will be getting some serious studying, if he's scum, Deer is the obvious vote from me.

[horrordude0215]

if he's scum, Deer is the obvious vote from me.

Wait... what? This is the third time you've ever mentioned Deer in any of your iso posts, and it's the first time you've brought up the fact that he could be scum...

Care to explain?

[Shadsticle]

The way he got on your bandwagon with little or no justification(yes I know I thought it was the right bandwagon at the time, but he added nothing to it bar his vote), coupled with comparatively low overall post content, would seem sufficient to me to cast a vote on him if ToD flips red.