Mini 949 - Rainbow Robot Unicorn Attack! - Over

[Vi]

I believe that the multicolored Win Condition in Post 1 belongs to the Mafia of this game. Therefore I think ani's immediate move to ask a Townie to claim it is a scumtell all its own. Please die.

Vote: animorpherv1

(L-3)

Posts with psychedelic colors to come when I'm not watching Survivor.

[Vi]

L-2 at page 2? Woah. Are we going for a quicklynch record or something? We can afford some discussion.

Or we can lynch ascumorpherv1, I'll die overnight, and we'll be more or less where we would be if we lynched on Page 20.

Such are slips.

[Vi]

I don't think scum would openly ask if anyone

else

had their win condition.

Um...

Even assuming this game isn't getting pretty easy, scum feigning ignorance of a shiny rule that belongs to them for purposes of

clearly

looking uninformed is definitely something I can see scum doing.

[Vi]

Also @Ellibereth: Why did you vote ani?

[Vi]

Don't get what you mean by the bolded.

In retrospect, I'm going too quickly, sorry >.>

VasudeVa's backtrack in 50 is awesome. I've always wanted to play in one of those games where the game's over by Page 18.

[Vi]

Why do you think the 3 of all colors thing is the scum WC?

It's a matter of math.

I also believe there are three scum.

[Vi]

I believe that the multicolored Win Condition in Post 1 belongs to the Mafia of this game.

Therefore I think ani's immediate move to ask a Townie to claim it is a scumtell all its own. Please die.

@ani -

Vi is right. What's up with that?

Is this part of the usual brand of carelessness you seem to display?

What do you think? Is ani scum for it?

Is it even a tell?

Null-tell.

Ani seems to be careless in whatever game he is in. Not really surprising. So far, I got nothing.

In this context I mean contradicting yourself for no evident reason except to squirm. You may also die when ready.

[Vi]

Vi: I looked at page one and it said you know at least one person has that win condition. My first thought was

a serial killer. But that's me.

SK is pretty much the other option.

That is, you being the SK. You really ARE always scum; it's kind of disturbing.

Actually, ani's question makes no sense since the rainbow Win Condition is clearly not the Town Win Condition. At the very best it belongs to a nonTown neutral, lynch all non-Town, etc..

I can swing toward a VVvote, sure.

Unsee: animorpherv1

See: VasudeVa

(L-4)

Parsee: Maemuki

[Vi]

ok
you can take ani's spot on death row

[Vi]

About a dozen games outside of here, and just starting here...

Could you describe the games you were in before?

[Vi]

*as in how they were different from those run here

[Vi]

I'm surprised there exists another site slower than this one

VV's AtFL seems genuine enough. I'm going to look down to Electric Avenue.

Unsee: VasudeVa

See: dramonic

(L-6)

Lynch All Canadians is in effect.

[Vi]

Vi is applying pressure on the tiniest of details. I'm rather uncomfortable with it. But this is my first game with him/her.

You're not supposed to be comfortable.

What are the "tiny details" you're speaking of?

[Vi]

Leaving for most of the Day.

I'm a little upset at how what I/we had going earlier seems to have come to a standstill, and if we have to avoid voting due to mod shenanigans there will be

RAGE

.

[Vi]

My opinion at this time is that the very active players {Ellibereth, LlamaFluff} are awesome and also Town (and not because they're active, to pre-empt that statement).

I'm not sure about farside. If she's scum, she's probably the most competent one on the team tbh.

For now and this once I'm still willing to give VV the benefit of the doubt.

I freely confess I don't feel confident with reading aniskywalkerv1 and trust in Ellibereth's judgment there.

Someone said something recently that etc.

Scum are probably among the ones who are having trouble integrating into this game {dramonic, Robocopter87}, which tbh is kind of surprising considering the game has been open for a while and scum have had plenty of opportunities to come in. omnino and VasudeVa also fit this category but for now I'm willing to go along with their excuses.

While I don't have a problem with the dramonic wagon I'd like to see what competing scumwagons do. Since Ellibereth took the words right out of my e-mouth, I'll go his way.

Unsee: dramonic

See: Robocopter87

(L-5)

Mod: If Vote -> "see", what is Lynch?

Speaking as someone who refuses to go to 4chan but thinks Advice Dog is funny, I'm totally stealing the Modkill Unicorn shtick for my own games; it's much more funny than what I had before.

[Vi]

Vi: What are you basing your town reads on?

On Ellibereth, partly intuition and partly liking the direction he's going in. I kind of feel the same way about the Badger.

I'm actually very much on the fence about L-Fluff. If I'm right about my original thought process, Dude Lion is toeing the line on claiming scum. If I'm not right, well etc.
Rather than take the direct approach through this, though, I think it's probably best left for Day 2, tbh. For now, I think we would do well with lynching the Scum In Front Of Me (SIFOM).

Also, this is the first time I've seen Mr. Owl's name abbreviated as

drama

.

[Vi]

[obvious scumposting]

So what have I done scummy to get Elli's and Vi's vote? Huh?

lol

Your first post in this game was all kinds of forced, lol. So was that mostly-useless post above, which combines IIoA with a completely bogus accusation.

More looking (vote-style) at Robocop please; easy game is indeed quite easy

[Vi]

Sorry Guys I totally forgot about this game and I'm sorry.

Apology, neither necessary nor endearing but apparently had to be put in

vote:Dramonic

.
I extremly dislike his jump on Ani it wasn't right and his eagerness to lynch him really rubs me the wrong way.

Ignoring the run-on sentence, here's a jump onto a popular wagon on the basis of "his jump on ani wasn't right" (whatever that means) and "his eagerness to lynch him really rubs me the wrong way" (as opposed to me saying the same thing except more vehemently and more often?).

Also, Many colors in beginning make big migraine.

fluff, but at least it makes the post look bigger

---

And what drives it home is that that middle section is literally all of the useful content you have posted thus far.

Also, looking across the board (in a five-second search) your posting style in this game is definitely different from your other games.

[Vi]

ANsWERS in RED in QUOTES?^^^^

[Vi]

^^basically that; your posts here look like they come from an entirely different person

That post of dramonic's is basically the

least

objectionable thing he's done tbh. Compare being MIA and making the fourth vote on ani for dodgy reasons.

Would you care to post more content now, or is defending yourself as much as your duty here entails?

[Vi]

And I'm probably missing something, but who's Dude Lion?

Taken from someone trying (and failing) to catch L-Fluff's gender from his avatar in Death Note Mafia, resulting in L-Fluff's response "It's a dude lion". I thought it was funny and ran with it.

In case you've missed it by now, I have a warped sense of humor.

[Vi]

Why do you think the 3 of all colors thing is the scum WC?

It's a matter of math.

I also believe there are three scum.

Explain?

No?

TonyMontana always lurks, we'll probably need a replacement for omnino, dramonic has no excuse.

Why not vote Robocopter?

[Vi]

TonyMontana always lurks

He's on this

game

?

?

Oh right, dramonic's sig says he's on Easter V/LA (which I don't remember it saying before)... except we're kind of done with Easter now, so he should be coming back any day now.

[Vi]

E-Badger, has it occurred to you that Townies could have information that scum don't? and what that implies about your constant fishing about for what people are trying to hide?~

I'm really not liking L-Fluff's jump to Robocopter. It seems like it's following popular opinion more than anything.
What's more odd is that he looks like he tried to convince E-Badger to hop on cop before doing so himself (in a post that doesn't mention his own RC suspicion at all).

I don't get this "Robocop already has enough pressure" rhetoric. It's not like his posting has improved or anything. And in blatant contradiction to that statement, I'm not above derailing the wagon for a while.

Unsee: Robocopter87

See: ElectricBadger

(L-6)

@Maeµki: Why are you still voting omnino?

[Vi]

@farside: Do you still like looking at VasudeVa?

[Vi]

E-Badger, has it occurred to you that Townies could have information that scum don't? and what that implies about your constant fishing about for what people are trying to hide?~

I assume this is in reference to my comment:

I'm going to say one thing in regards to the vote colours:

It's not who's being voted, more likley who's voting, or notihing at all.

I disagree with the above, but does announcing something like this help town in any way?

I guess I can sorta kinda see where you'd get fishing out of that. I certainly wouldn't have posted it if I thought Ani were in any way accurate about his interpretation. However, it was intended to sound like "STFU about colors and why would town ever go there to begin with?" Ironically it's Ani that keeps standing out to me as fishing for info.

Actually, not just there. You've been trying to get information out of me and Ellibereth for a while now.

There's definitely a difference between "I don't think so" and "What makes you think that?" in the fishing department.

I don't get this "Robocop already has enough pressure" rhetoric. It's not like his posting has improved or anything. And in blatant contradiction to that statement, I'm not above derailing the wagon for a while.

I don't quite follow you here. You indicate Robo's posting sounds bad and hasn't done anything to convince us he's town, but you're dropping your pressure and want to derail the wagon on him? Why?

You don't mention any reason not to suspect Robo; I've posted the reasons that I do. Do you disagree with any of them? Or see some indication that Robo is town? That would go a lot further towards removing my vote than decrying it just for being "popular opinion".

1) I'm dropping my pressure to see if any of the other lusers who are saying "oh he has enough pressure" are going to step up.
2) There are no good reasons not to suspect Robocopter except that I dislike the timing of your vote and L-Fluff's vote (whose vote was the one I called out as following public opinion). The formal-sounding case sounds like something scum would post to keep their bases covered (as you're attempting to demonstrate now) - the people voting Robocop before you have already brought out all of those points, albeit not with the melodious nuances of your posting style.

Plus you've bothered me for a while.

--

Llama switch vote I don't mind, agree with Vi on the pre-switch Badger asking. Llama's still on the town side of my spectrum though.

Why is L-Fluff more likely Town?

[Vi]

Dislike Mae's almost singular obsession with omni.

I'm not obsessed - I just want him to post. Is that a bad thing?

After he said he was replacing out? Probably.

Who's your second suspect?

[Vi]

@Vi why did you say post 129 that Llama is town but after I state my oppinion you say this on post 134: I'm actually very much on the fence about L-Fluff

What changed in a short period of time?

My post saying that the actives were more likely Town was a first-thought reaction upon reading the thread. However, I also left a hole in my post because LlamaFluff contradicted my setup-guessing pretty heavily.

I won't deny that your post made me look back on what he was saying and start to agree with you. I don't particularly understand why you're letting up on him tbh, but etc..

[Vi]

The longer this drags on, the more I expect Robocop to flip VI-Town. I would expect n00bscum to not look so... pathetic.
That dramonic wagon still looks great though.

TonyMontana 236 is awesome and likely came from Town.

farside is totally coasting on this lynch. She said something to me (she didn't

ask

, she made a statement) and it doesn't seem like what she's saying recently is actually intended to gain information or help us along overmuch.

I have some gut scummy reads on others, but its hard for me to really explain them at this point, so im sticking to pushing what I can explain, and am working from there.

Or you could give me some peace of mind and go ahead and lay them out. They can't criticize you worse than they are me right now

[Vi]

There's definitely a difference between "I don't think so" and "What makes you think that?" in the fishing department.

...and between "WTF did you post that" - just disagreeing doesn't really help scum hunt.

It stops false leads.

[Vi]

I have some gut scummy reads on others, but its hard for me to really explain them at this point, so im sticking to pushing what I can explain, and am working from there.

Or you could give me some peace of mind and go ahead and lay them out. They can't criticize you worse than they are me right now

Also you to a much less extent, although it doesnt really transcend lack of seeing expected town tells.

What were you expecting? (not a vanity question, honest)

[Vi]

We can then decide as a group whether we need to know the colour.

Not included in what TonyMontana said, and TM's iteration looks better for it. Scum like democratic decisions.

---

I don't see this. Your going to have to expand on your reasoning?

No kidding; like I expected you to agree
All of your reads thus far are made of words that don't say anything (#14).
You called Robocop a "bonafide hypocrite" (#11) but took your sweet time voting him (#13 the next day).
And of course lots of questions that don't actually seem to go anywhere (#13 and earlier).

I have asked questioned and prodded robo to post something more then just crap.

Easy brownie points I'm not going to give you.

Did you actual read the meta that VV provided?

For about twenty seconds. I didn't see a significant difference between the two in that time; contrast what I showed about Robocop's recent posts.

But let's actually talk about things that matter. I contend that Robocop is going to flip Town. Your thoughts?

[Vi]

Sadly I really want to sign up for Vi's game if I wasn't overwhelmed I would so be getting in for it.

Talking of which! A little bird told me that dramonic is signing up for games right now.

Unsee: ElectricBadger
See: dramonic

(L-3)

dramonic's post 256 is what I'm talking about when I say that I would expect n00bscum to

try

to look Town, rather than fail completely.

Now that I've said that, I'll go ahead and actually read the thread. (>")>

[Vi]

whee ADDing

I don't really see anything particularly damning in farside 250. L-Fluff already cleared up what I was going to say about 251.

So what ARE your reads, anyway?

---

Drags on...? Nearly to a lynch 11 pages and 7 days in seems kinda quick to me, if anything.

Forget the page and date.
We found a someone or two who's acting legitimately scummy. He's not posting except to look pathetic on occasion. People are actively saying they don't want to lynch him (that is, they don't want to pressure him). Therefore the game ground to a halt in that regard.

This is more ranting than anything.

I think it's strange that you've completely reversed your opinion to a town read based only on the fact that he's "pathetic" and isn't doing anything.

He's not acting like I would expect scum to in that situation (based on what I expected). With that said, I can't completely disagree with farside's whatever-it-is-but-don't-call-it-Appeal-to-Experience-because-someone-will-take-that-the-wrong-way-hyphen-abuse but I still don't sense that he's going to flip scum based on how he's giving up. (By saying this his chance of doing just that went up by 20% but etc.) Contrast dramonic 256.

---

Hey Robocopter.
*Could you link to Newbie 926? I totally don't see it in tR2R.
*Why are you underproducing in this game?
*Could you link to a game where you were Mafia?

---

Seacore. Do you

expect

Robocopter to flip scum?

[Vi]

Yes, I expect Robo to flip scum.

The reason I asked was because in your post accusing Robocopter (#3) you seemed to imply rather heavily that you weren't going to apologize if the wagon hit Town. So your surety now is bothersome.

Robocopter - Is dramonic still scum?

Seacore - Why did you ask Robocopter to prematurely claim?

LlamaFluff - That question was directed toward farside, but etc.

dramonic is still lolscum

[Vi]

Also Seacore explained he did not want me to get hammered before I got a chance to claim. I should be at L-1 soon.

Claims are requested by the people who intend to hammer, not the ones that drop an L-1 vote. Claims are meant as a last resort to keep you from being lynched, not a curiosity you see by paying the L-1 admission price.

Plus if anyone "accidentally" hammered you they would have hell to pay.

[Vi]

So that basically puts him at L-1. Which is claim-ville.

Nnnnnno it's not.

Who's your second pick for scum, anyway?

[Vi]

Also, why are people specifically posting town reads? Isn't this generally agreed to be a terrible idea?

By people who haven't ever been scum, yes.

I'm saying "

people

who find him scummy because he's active elsewhere and lurking here should not use that as a reason"

...and who are you referring to here?

[Vi]

Well, that puts me in that group. I've never been scum.

Are you saying that its a good idea to say who you think is town? In everygame I've been in, I've been told that its not good to give scum a list of who that should vote for.

Scum who have remotely been paying attention to the game can

tell

who isn't suspected at any given time. Furthermore, people (or rather, Townies) change their reads all the time anyway.

In this particular case, I'm trying to see if people actually

have

reads they're willing to stand by.

[Vi]

I could potentially consider hammering Robo.

No you won't.

Please die.

[Vi]

I could potentially consider hammering Robo.

No you won't.

Please die.

Give me a good reason to not hammer someone I think has decent chance at being scum coupled with a vanilla claim.

I'll give you two.

1) Not paying attention to the thread - as you have repeatedly Today - is absolutely scummy.

2) Robocop isn't at L-1.

[Vi]

1) I've done a reread though
2) I didn't say I'll hammer him here and now. I'm saying I dont mind being the hammer vote.

1) For what that's worth
2) What's wrong with being the L-1 vote?

[Vi]

Lynch me

I'm pretty sure I read that correctly.

[Vi]

And my scum-read gets replaced by someone that I have a gut-town-read on! Nice.

Unsee.

Good to know.

I'm really not buying "gut" as a reason to see Seacore as pro-Town at the moment...

Seacore 298 is totally bullying Robocopter around in an attempt to press a VI-lynch.

Also speaking as one of the reviewers for Coug's bastard game I had to laugh when the Portuguese PR went to someone who was actually from Portugal. Though I don't remember post restriction parity across factions... If I noticed it, I would have nixed it :\

[Vi]

Drags on...? Nearly to a lynch 11 pages and 7 days in seems kinda quick to me, if anything.

Forget the page and date.
We found a someone or two who's acting legitimately scummy. He's not posting except to look pathetic on occasion. People are actively saying they don't want to lynch him (that is, they don't want to pressure him). Therefore the game ground to a halt in that regard.

This is more ranting than anything.

I get this - even mostly agree with it - but it doesn't mesh with your vote. Pressure was on Dram, your vote was on Robo; pressure switched to Robo and you jumped off him to create a rival bandwagon; nearing a lynch on Robo and you continued to avoid the wagon. If the game is dragging on because people won't lynch obvscum, how have you been trying to push things towards a lynch?

I started getting the impression that the cop was leaning more toward VIdom. So I did. Noticeable difference from saying "lol this person has enough pressure".

Also dramonic isn't at L-1 unless I missed a vote someplace. ani, VV, me, and farside, right? Stop making excuses and vote. (notice a recurring theme in this post)

Alternatively if we wanted to drop the owl for Seacore or Maemuki I'd be for that too.

[Vi]

EBWOP:

I started getting the impression that the cop was leaning more toward VIdom.

So I did.

*So I moved on.

To answer your reflexive objection I didn't explicitly mention that I was starting to have misgivings about Robocop at the time. DWI.

[Vi]

I'm pretty much calling dramonic/Seacore/ EB scum team.

GG someone wake me later.

*image spam that suggests approval*

[Vi]

Would you like to quote all of what I said?

1) I'm dropping my pressure to see if any of the other lusers who are saying "oh he has enough pressure" are going to step up.
2) There are no good reasons not to suspect Robocopter except that I dislike the timing of your vote and L-Fluff's vote (whose vote was the one I called out as following public opinion).

The formal-sounding case

[ElectricBadger presented]

sounds like something scum would post to keep their bases covered (as you're attempting to demonstrate now) - the people voting Robocop before you have already brought out all of those points, albeit not with the melodious nuances of your posting style.

...which would suggest that at the very least I expected scum to be hopping onto the wagon, which in turn suggests that it's less likely to be a wagon on scum.

Not coincidentally, that same post deals with my other issue with you--

E-Badger, has it occurred to you that Townies could have information that scum don't? and what that implies about your constant fishing about for what people are trying to hide?~

And that whole attack on ani at the beginning based on that information I have? Right, that's me making stuff up out of whole cloth

Your attack on Robocop based on him "not knowing his place in this game" and equating that to him lying about his role is still bad. I'm curious as to what you think of Robocop right now though.

Quality.

As for buddying, I've already expressed approval of dramonic and Seacore lynching a while ago. You're not a bad third choice given the Town reads I have lying around.

[Vi]

I know the question is moot as of the moment, but why TonyMontana instead of someone like Seacore?

As things stand I don't think I want to move my vote from dramonic atm.

[Vi]

Apart from that.. RC is town, Eli is town, VV is town. Mae, ani and sea are probably town.

Im thinking a combination of you/EB/Vi for last two. Im also thinking this is a very non-standard setup game.

And dramonic?

Could you explain your probTown list?

[Vi]

LlamaFluff (ever-popular!), are you going to be around to post tonight?

[Vi]

Dram I just dont see being this anti-town as scum since it almost IS intentional its so bad. Yes I realize its WIFOM, but I do not remember ever seeing him be this useless, and given what im assuming, it makes even less sense then normal for scum to be doing this outside of a gambit.

So basically, you're affording him the same pass as Robocopter, correct?

The reason I asked about your availability is because Percy lives in the merry old land of Oz; any mod scene will take place within this hour at the earliest. I was hoping you would be able to stay until then, since you're the one who caused it.

Also you never mentioned anything about your probTown read on Seacore. That's the one I'm most interested in.

[Vi]

[no scene]

Seacore, unless I'm mistaken I remember hearing that you play on a different site. Could you please direct me there?

[Vi]

@mod: Maemuki is not voting as of 303

Fixed! ~Mod.

Also, prod Maemuki

I don't like how there isn't much of a consensus with four days to go.

After rereading TonyMontana I'm willing to swap suspicion of Seacore with him. It's difficult to tell if TonyMontana is lurking or not, but he was noticeably more active when modding his recent M. Theme. Either way if you take away that one post that Seacore protested he said first, TonyMontana has nothing to redeem himself.

@mod: Please prod TonyMontana too

I'm fencing on dramonic. It's certainly plausible that he's deliberately playing poorly, and I'm not against seeing that as a Town-tell (paradoxically). However, there's a lot more to lose if we're wrong than we would gain if we were correct on that. I would like to see him move his vote from VasudeVa, as he's not getting lynched today.

There's enough communal hate for ElectricBadger that I would be fine with starting a wagon thattaway.

Unsee: dramonic
See: ElectricBadger

(L-6)

[Vi]

Vi: I expect better from you then I'm going with the consensus vote EB drivel.

I don't recall naming you specifically, though you DID mention that you would be fine with lynching him Today.
Or is there something more special about dramonic that I'm overlooking?

Further, what is your take on this Llama vs. TonyMontana gambit?

[Vi]

Being a university student but not from Sydney I don't see a reason to register to see the topic...
I wanted to see if you would validate your "never scum" claim and I don't think you would have provided a link if you weren't not-lying, so etc.

On the other hand stalking Percy is more fun than expected. I still don't understand this though

[Mathematics is]

Neither spelt nor pronounced "Math"[1]

Where does the 's' in "Maths" come from, or alternatively what is a "mathematic"

[Vi]

LlamaFluff - when/why did you change your mind on ani? Ellibereth gets a similar question - why is ani Town?

ElectricBadger - in 171 you said the dramonic wagon was "full of fail". Why?

Oh hey farside also tried to deflect from ElectricBadger in 218 as well as 381. Suddenly I'm really liking this Badger lynch.

I am awesome like my avatar because I called Robocopter-VI before it became cool. See farside 250.
I totally should have thrown in my post 240 in my rebuttal to ElectricBadger's vote, because at the time I made that post nobody had unvoted Robocopter except me.

I have no idea why dramonic called me Town "based on Mafia 100". I would like for Dran-o Mick to run that one by me again.

farside 306 talks about opportunistic votes on Robocopter but doesn't bother mentioning who could have made them. Later on she mentions Seacore, but I would be surprised if that's the only one she thought of.

I am puzzled at how E-Badger didn't bother saying anything about Robocop in his catch-up post 310 in spite of the wagon he was on falling apart. But he decided that a dramonic policy lynch was a good idea (ignoring the claimed Vanilla Townie and apparently-still-scum Robocopter, animorpherv1, TonyMontana, et al) but didn't want to put dramonic at L-1 (which he wouldn't have anyway with his vote). There are a couple of things not adding up here.

Why did farside start calling Seacore suspicious? Was it just the "Robocop doesn't understand his role in this game" remark or the implied suspicion over his L-1 vote?

Cut by a few people. Wow LlamaFluff 387 is Towntastic.

Seacore would probably be best off either looking at one of the main wagons or giving reasons why all of them are bad.

---

tl;dr ElectricBadger is defscum. Most of his posts are concerned with looking good instead of actually going anywhere. I'm not sure if farside is scum WITH E-Badger but she's a good second choice independently. TonyMontana isn't a bad third choice at all, all things considered. I just wish half of the player list could

look Town

.

[Vi]

@FluffoftheLlama: Would you like to vote ElectricBadger?

[Vi]

Oh hey farside also tried to deflect from ElectricBadger in 218 as well as 381. Suddenly I'm really liking this Badger lynch.

I am awesome like my avatar because I called Robocopter-VI before it became cool. See farside 250.
I totally should have thrown in my post 240 in my rebuttal to ElectricBadger's vote, because at the time I made that post nobody had unvoted Robocopter except me.

I have no idea why dramonic called me Town "based on Mafia 100". I would like for Dran-o Mick to run that one by me again.

farside 306 talks about opportunistic votes on Robocopter but doesn't bother mentioning who could have made them. Later on she mentions Seacore, but I would be surprised if that's the only one she thought of.
.

Vi how is this a deflect from EB? or this?

You've tried to move attention, etc. away from the Badger specifically when I've brought him up. Further, while you named ElectricBadger as part of a hyposcum team Today, you're sure hesitant to vote that way.

As for 306 306 I know I felt secore. Right now it's 11:30 pm So I don't remember who else I was thinking as oppotunist.

I don't like people saying I"m going with the consensus. I consider it scummy or lazy town. Since I don't see you as lazy in general it comes off as lazy. You keep flipping back and forth more with less and less reason. I don't know where your getting EB as scum from where I said I see connection between players with EB in 2 post (seacore and dramo) Which no one said boo about but EB.

Nobody said you were going with the consensus. I invited you to do so for the sake of getting a lynch. We DO need a consensus of some kind.

As for "flipping more and more with less and less reasoning", I find that surprising considering you've been following

me

on Robocopter and dramonic (and even unvoted Robocop for reasons that I gave before you even voted him).

[Vi]

t;]I don't like people saying I"m going with the consensus. I consider it scummy or lazy town. Since I don't see you as lazy in general it comes off as lazy. You keep flipping back and forth more with less and less reason. I don't know where your getting EB as scum from where I said I see connection between players with EB in 2 post (seacore and dramo) Which no one said boo about but EB.

Nobody said you were going with the consensus. I invited you to do so for the sake of getting a lynch. We DO need a consensus of some kind.

As for "flipping more and more with less and less reasoning", I find that surprising considering you've been following

me

on Robocopter and dramonic (and even unvoted Robocop for reasons that I gave before you even voted him).

I voted for those people for my own reason. Or are you saying my reasons for voting on them are the same as yours? Because I would dispute the later.
Robo was based on the meta that VV provided which I got the sense reading his town games he was not measuring up.

...which I brought up earlier, albeit not with VV's meta examples...

As for dramo it is for the connection I stated to EB.

...yet you don't want to vote E-Badger...

All my votes come with a reason. Not a follow the bw vote.

...and you have a reason to vote E-Badger...

You also seemed to agree with me on my 3 scum person team. Did that change again?

Absolutely!

But surely people attacking you isn't the only thing going on ITT. What do you think of all the things that don't directly threaten you?

[Vi]

Unsee EB

I'm going back to Robo. After doing an ISO read, I realise I was wrong on the EB front.

Vote:Robo

He is truly the best lynch for today.

Vas is also a good lynch.

I've done ISO reads on Elli, EB and TM, and I'm liking them all as town.

@everything in this post: Why?

[Vi]

Unsee EB

I'm going back to Robo.

After doing an ISO read, I realise I was wrong on the EB front.

Vote:Robo

He is truly the best lynch for today.

Vas is also a good lynch.

I've done ISO reads on Elli, EB and TM, and I'm liking them all as town.

@everything in this post: Why?

So that answers for that part of your post...

[Vi]

And that whole attack on ani at the beginning based on that information I have? Right, that's me making stuff up out of whole cloth

Yup, calling out someone for role fishing is scummy. Gotcha.

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between me telling you things and you asking me about things...

Why are you so concerned with telling others how to vote?

It's called "pressure". I'll explain it after the game if you're interested. (no condescension intended)

Your attack on Robocop based on him "not knowing his place in this game" and equating that to him lying about his role is still bad. I'm curious as to what you think of Robocop right now though.

Well, I see stuff like this:

Which I am, a VT. So please, don't waste your or my or anyone elses time by lynching me.

I'm telling you, Dram, don't do it. Just don't. Don't kill me.

And I'm not really sure why he's still alive; nothing but heaps of AtE and a borderline threat. I think he's a good lynch.

"Borderline threat"?
Well, anyway. I'll take another look at the Robocopter and would be fine with additional pressure on him atm.

ElectricBadger - in 171 you said the dramonic wagon was "full of fail". Why?

Did you even look at the wagon? Robo, Ani and Vas?

Normally I don't factor that sort of thing into evaluating wagons...
There's certainly the chance that I'm wrong about at least one of their alignments and usually I want the person being wagoned to do something remotely Townish before moving my vote.

Just for the record, though, what is your opinion on ani and VV?

I am puzzled at how E-Badger didn't bother saying anything about Robocop in his catch-up post 310 in spite of the wagon he was on falling apart. But he decided that a dramonic policy lynch was a good idea (ignoring the claimed Vanilla Townie and apparently-still-scum Robocopter, animorpherv1, TonyMontana, et al) but didn't want to put dramonic at L-1 (which he wouldn't have anyway with his vote). There are a couple of things not adding up here.

Didn't say anything about Robo's wagon falling apart...? Are we reading the same post? Highlights:

Okay, that got really weird really fast. Been pondering it for the last day and I'm still not sure what to make of it.

*I think its because I have absolutely no idea where to start. In the beginning of the thread I felt really lost because it was hard to understand what I should be doing.

I understood my position [in another game] and what I was supposed to do. This is a little more difficult.

I'm confused by this in the wake of your vanilla claim. Why wouldn't you know what you're supposed to be doing?

*checks again*
Nope, I must have been reading something entirely different. Wow.

Not sure how you're calling dramonic a policy lynch - unless you don't think he's done anything scummy? I said we'd have to lynch him at some point - either he's scum, or he's the sort of town scum loves to keep around, so I'm pretty sure he'll be there for LYLO if we reach it without lynching him first. That's not really policy, that's logic - I'd rather keep around scum who are active and posting and use our least informed lynches to get rid of scum like dram. However, Vi's rabid attitude towards Dram is currently making that wagon look kind of unappealing as well.

"Rabid"? I'll have you know that my tags are in the mail, thank y--wait, that's not what I should be focusing on.

I don't remember defending dramonic beyond agreeing with Fluffy that he's more likely to be VI-Town. I've seen dramonic-scum twice and I was impressed at least one of those times. dramonic-Town is very much the opposite. His play has been lacking enough that I've wondered if he's playing himself up, but how often does that happen I mean really.
But ignoring that, if someone you're calling scum is allegedly defending someone, how does that make that someone's wagon unappealing?

----
@@ FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T E-BADGER
----

Why is no one commenting on E-Badger vs. Vi?

I'm kind of a big deal. People know me.

I don't particularly care for Seacore's "tell" for E-Badger, considering I just got out of a game where I did everything he said scum wouldn't do.

Well, I got lynched in my other game which took up around 90% of my mafia time. I hopefully have moar time for this game now.

What alignment were you in that game?

I sense that (to borrow another meme) I'm doing it wrong. And I'm becoming increasingly bothered by ani, dramonic, Robocopter, notMaemuki, etc. who are putting the pressure on to be right as early as possible before they live to LyLo. I'll start over-ish again tomorrow.

Open question: How many scum do you think are between {ani, dramonic, Robocopter, hp[leaves]}? It's a third of the roll call, so with no further information one would expect one scum out of three. Considering lurking is anti-Town, etc. I would be rather surprised (and worried) if all of them are Town. *ignores dramonic's recent post *

[Vi]

Quick post to respond to E-Badger--

*Those four were placed together because they are the collective of total lurkers. You know, the people you said want to lynch before they do more damage later. Believe it or not, I do read your posts

in some capacity

.
*My opinion of Robocopter needs to be reviewed. I read VI on him and jumped off the wagon. I see your criticism that he hasn't done anything since having pressure taken off and I'd like to look at it for myself to see if he's worth revisiting. Again, I'm reading your posts. There's a reason I stopped attacking you at full capacity.
*Your attempts to reactively build your reads around me betrays an abject lack of knowledge of my scum meta. Or making excuses for keeping your scumpartners out of sight, to take the cynical route.
*I'll talk about an application of vote-related pressure as when another game is over.

Question: Do you think people intentionally lie about things that can be readily checked?

[Vi]

*Those four were placed together because they are the collective of total lurkers. You know, the people you said want to lynch before they do more damage later. Believe it or not, I do read your posts

in some capacity

.

Just curious why you left TM off the list.

I'm not sure. He was probably posting at the time. Good question though.

*Your attempts to reactively build your reads around me betrays an abject lack of knowledge of my scum meta.

How so?

Why don't you look it up for yourself?

Question: Do you think people intentionally lie about things that can be readily checked?

Sure. Backed into a corner, a bit too eager, a little lazy or just not expecting someone to check on it. My faith in people is low. Why?

Your definition of "lie" appears to be different from mine (maliciously making false statements, to be distinguished from making statements that happen to be false). All of those except the last example are not indicative of alignment though.

Town's focus is too fragmented at the moment. We need more wagons. I'll try to help this out today or tonight.

[Vi]

Hey Badger. Do you have an opinion on me or not?

Also, when you say "following the obvious chain of suspects", would you like to check my position on each of those wagons? and how I jumped off them at their respective climaxes?

You keep talking about a "contradictory stance on Robo". It's not like I flipped back and forth. Notice the first part of #33 was in past tense.

Reread will hopefully happen tonight; if the furry mammals in the crowd could kindly stop tunneling on me I would be much obliged.*

*Unless said critters are scum, of course.

[Vi]

Reread through Page 5.

VasudeVa is painfully scum.
ElectricBadger has actively done nothing to suggest he's not scum.
Robocopter has a shot at being scum, but not with E-Badger.
LlamaFluff is giving me all kinds of conflicting reads, particularly with that push on ani in 121.
Ellibereth is still more likely Town.
farside is going under my radar but I'm not disagreeing with her this time around as much as I was before.

Have some notes.

Page 1 notes: L-Fluff's strong response to ani reads Townish. I still hold that scum do not have colors, so the people who are acting like they have them (i.e. le Fluff) are Town.
Of all the players on this page, the only one who is acting like completely dead weight is E-Badger. Scumread.

Page 2 notes: I'm going to guess that VV 40 ("L-2 at page 2? Woah.") is a newbtell more than anything. As of the present I'm not actually sure how much experience VV really has; if it's not a newbtell, it's probably a scumtell in this case.
My post 43 is a blatant Town-tell (if I do say so myself~). E-Badger calling it "strangely forced" later is ridiculous; scum don't say that they'll die overnight (especially D1) because then they have to deal with the question of why they DON'T die overnight until the end of the game.
VV 44 doesn't really answer L-Fluff's question either.

Page 3 notes: Even taking foreign language into account, I don't see how you can reconcile VV's thoughts on ani in 40 and 50.
VV's response (53) sounds weird, but I can kind of see where he's coming from. Still, that and 57 really bother me. People who play genre savvy like that sound really, really scummy to me; and combining that with the language barrier makes for impulses to push them off a cliff.
Oh hey it's ElectricBadger jumping in to say nothing in post 58! He doesn't even vote dramonic...
TonyMontana posting a vote with no reasoning, no content, and a V/LA notice is sadly not completely out of his character. With that said, I think his content in this game is even lower than usual.
Ellibereth 66 is :goodposting:, more so than my 65.
In retrospect I probably gave VV too much credit for his Appeal to Foreign Language, but it was Page 3; what else could I do. Post 74 isn't really that good; maybe it's just me but looking back on the game I don't remember VV feeling so newbish in the present time.

Page 4 notes: VV continues waving a discrimination flag in 77. This reminds me considerably of HowardRoark-scum in tubby's recent game.

VV 82 says that the "Vi is right" part agrees with my theory about the alt. win condition in the rules, but that doesn't explain the "What's up with that, ani? Is that this so-called 'carelessness'"?
Yeah this whole VV thing feels like he's squirming out of what he said and trying to turn it around by hiding behind the language barrier.

I'm not sure what L-Fluff's omnino vote is about. He doesn't seem to like the VV wagon, but he never says as much until 121 when he flames ani for allegedly abusing foreign language.
Stuff like L-Fluff 90 really forces the dichotomy where I don't think he's right, but I don't know if that's a scumtell or not.
ani is acting retarded and I really have no idea why. I don't understand why anyone would play like he does, because it doesn't look fun and it doesn't help anyone.
I'm not sure what L-Fluff is getting into with his second question in 95. Rather than ask which of dramonic/Ellibereth is scummy, the question should be

why he isn't doing anything to find out

.
Basically what Ellibereth 98 said.

Page 5 notes: VV 105 is starting to make me twitch. "I'm paranoid and nervous by nature"? "Is nervousness a scumtell"? No and yes, respectively!

He thinks his wagon {Ellibereth, TonyMontana, farside22, Vi} is "infected by scum" but hasn't voted anyone on his wagon yet (up to the present).

ani giving up on VV just seems weird. At great length he says VV is acting like scum, in a close-to-null kind of way. Jeez.
ElectricBadger 111 says a lot of not a whole bunch except for the Robocopter prod.
lol, Robocopter 117 and 119. Just from 117 you would think that he only read the ani wagon. From 119 you can tell that's not true!
L-Fluff 121 very heavily slams ani over something that's not particularly true and bullies ani around. It really looks like scum needing something to do.

---

Wow, you didn't even wait for a vote before pulling out the OMGUS card, that's awesome.

It's not like it hasn't happened before

[Vi]

Like, he was driven to claim townie and that's FINE???
Pu-lease.

:badposting:

I see my name being thrown around a lot and exhortations to lynch E-Badger (that I'm not giving) but it's way too many words. Could Mom and Family Pet please offer bullet points?

Also, why is it that the only people E-Badger seems to be paying attention to are the people trying to lynch him?

[Vi]

Mom,

I totally agree with the E-Badger hate, but don't you think this is a decent alternative explanation for his Robocopter vote?

There are three players that look like good votes to me atm;

we're approaching deadline and only one has a wagon,

so:

That mean old badger doesn't seem to be afraid of OMGUS at all; in fact I just got done saying that that's where he does his best work.

I think E-Badger was weakly suspicious of Ellibereth (ISO #22, IIRC), but he was too busy framing the people accusing him of being scum as scum to say much about it. Maybe I'm reading too quickly again.
The youth of today have a short attention span; you know how I am.

With that in mind, I can't entirely agree with your case but can definitely concur. As long as E-Badger gets lynched and flips scum the question of correctness doesn't matter much.

Best of luck,

Vi

[Vi]

Family Pet was ElectricBadger, sorry >.> Although that was kind of a funny mix-up.

I have nothing against a TonyMontana wagon. The main problem with that wagon is that it doesn't exist.

There had been a bit of a dram wagon earlier that EB had abandoned due to the wagon "being full of fail" (clarification on what that entails?).

It entailed the people on the wagon more than anything. (That came up already, somewhere in the wallposts.)

I cannot seem to point out the motivation behind Vi's 492 post. It looks like he's trying to build up a case against me, then doesn't follow it up with a vote or an FOS or...something townie enough to make me think he's not just pointing fingers and backing off to let the town follow up. I'm trying reaal hard to get past the OMGUS instinct here, so I'll ask away first. What gives? Convince me that that post was town motivated.

What part of "reread up to Page 5" implies that I'm ready to cast a vote

now

?
Also, I don't use fingers of suspicion (except the occasional Middle Finger of Suspicion). You can read my posts and get the hint that I suspect you without me having to come out and say it.

As it stands, the point about you not voting for (or as far as I've seen pushing) any of the people on your wagon is pretty damning on its own. This most recent post is basically great for defending ElectricBadger (which you'll likely live to regret) and terrible for everything else. What's the point of asking for Town consensus when you don't contribute anything at all to it?

That Town consensus will come in due time though. Just be quiet and let the Townies talk; we'll tell you who to bus.

[Vi]

As it stands, the point about you not voting for (or as far as I've seen pushing) any of the people on your wagon is pretty damning on its own.

Especially since you didn't bother to argue against it, but reflexively thought to accuse me of being scum for accusing you.

[Vi]

So let me get this right...
Your reasons for wanting to lynch TonyMontana are:
*lurking (and not getting called on it) (fairly true)
*not playing to his Town meta (true IMO)
*

This time he seems to be scattering what he is doing a whole lot more, and I am really tempted to tip my hand a bit here to say why in this particular game its such a heavy tell as opposed to in a different game.

something you're not willing to tell us

Or let me get straight to the point--Why should I believe this isn't a blatant derail (ill-intentioned or otherwise) from a verranice ElectricBadger lynch?

(Yes I know that I said I had no problems but the ferocity is making me second-guess)

Also, why is farside scum with E-Badger?

[Vi]

Vi: How would you describe TM's town meta?

...

...I distinctly remembered seeing TonyMontana-Town in a game other than PYP2 (where he played even more worthlessly than he has here). Actually looking at my wiki page, I have no idea where or why I would remember such a thing. He was scum in both of the games I've played with him before (Serum and Steel, Wolf and Travelers' Road). In addition, both of those games are well over a year old, and given that TonyMontana actually posted more than twice per week they don't look a whole lot like how TonyMontana is playing ITT except for the usual popping in after long absences to jump on top of already-high wagons. (But to my credit TM IS acting against the meta I had of him. <.<;; )

...so that's embarrassing. I guess I have to thank you for the catch though <.<;

[Vi]

Pages 6 through 10.

VasudeVa is still scum; ElectricBadger is still scum.
Robocopter is starting to go from "too scummy to be scum" to "too scummy to be too scummy to be scum".
Maemuki is more confusing than anything; see bolded.
There's really nothing to excuse TonyMontana, not that everyone doesn't know that by now.
Seacore is awkward, especially considering the three people not mentioned in his intro/catchup post were me, Ellibereth, and E-Badger.
I'm trying to read for connections and I'm not finding many. This is a function of too many lurkers, tunnelers, and wishy-washy people.

Page 6 notes: I think I understand what Dude Lion is saying in 126 about omnino not having the alt. win condition - specifically, that he thought it could have been pro-Town, whereas it probably belongs to someone anti-Town, and that person would have a hard time convincing us that he was actually a pro-Town cult leader or whatever. I'm not entirely sure I buy it given that omnino was such a newb.
Posts like 126 and 127 make me feel like there's an L-Fluff/ani link.
lol Electric-Badger 128. "Intentionally lurking after pushing a quicklynch" seems a bit harsh. It's hard for dramonic to push a quicklynch when he's not posting!~ (especially since by this time the ani wagon has shrunk to himself and L-Fluff)
I can't read farside 132 at all.
lol, my preliminary Town read on ElectricBadger.
lol, the first of many posts by Robocopter that don't say or do anything.
Robocopter 139 says he likes to joke, but I haven't seen any joking from him I guess he's making excuses?
VV 148 votes to pressure the main wagon without actually expressing suspicion of him. Plus he wants to test the vote count theory, which seems like sleight of rolefish.

Page 7 notes: ElectricBadger doesn't actually express any of his own opinions in 151; instead attacking others for not being clear enough. He does a ton of fishing about the alt. win condition in this post, which is surprising because he says scum have motivation to do that in that very post.
Maemuki's 153 isn't very impressive by itself; what makes it more obnoxious is that she refuses to remove her vote from omnino (now Seacore) in the future.
yada yada Robocop 159 is terrible yada etc.
ElectricBadger's response to the very kind of question he thinks is so scummy in 160 is revealing - "Robocopter doesn't seem to need a wagon to keep talking; dramonic does". lol, dramonic hadn't said anything since E-Badger voted him!
I'm not sure what to think of ani saying Robocopter is "helping" against the common belief of the time in 165.
Hey it's Robocop saying more nothing in 170!
So let me see if I have this progression correct: E-Badger votes dramonic over Robocopter to "get him to talk". L-Fluff asks which one is the better lynch, and only then does E-Badger actually read what Robocopter is saying (with the kind of case that chamber would think is scummy) in 171 while telling the mod to prod dramonic. Yyyyes, this is definitely why I've been pushing E-Badger Today.
I'm pretty sure dramonic didn't have his V/LA notice in his sig the whole time...

Page 8 notes: The very first thing VV does is speculate about the colors again when it's already said that it does Town no good! Seriously? The meta argument isn't very strong based on how he's saying it - Robo's definitely going with the flow now -.-
VV 180 and "already enough pressure on RC as is"; "Too much pressure is wasted pressure". This is balogna.
Suddenly ani talks about the vote colors (because it's the only way he can be useful?), Maemuki stops in to correct him (because it's the only way she can be useful?), and E-Badger takes the easy criticism in an attempt to get Town points.

Maemuki is around long enough to talk to someone who's getting replaced about nothing that has to do with this game (except still wanting him lynched). She still hasn't talked about anyone else in this game really. Who replaced Maemuki? hp[leaves]? I wouldn't guarantee that he's scum, but I wouldn't keep him alive unless he produces.

Page 9 notes:

Maemuki acts interestingly at the top of the page. There was plenty of opportunity to vote Robocopter at 200, and as anyone can see she didn't. I think this suggests that they share an alignment. Evidently she thought TonyMontana 199 was satisfactory as activity though... I'm not seeing that. Throwing in that she claimed she didn't see TonyMontana when checking activity earlier makes me wonder.

farside pushes ani in 203, and IIRC has done so recently as well. I don't think they would be scum together.
A lot of the posts on this page don't seem very indicative of alignment...
I don't know why TonyMontana jumped off VV in 214. Given what I know of him, probably because there was a larger wagon to be jumped on. I'm disappointed that he hasn't said more about ElectricBadger while accusing Robocopter, but I suppose I'm biased in that regard. It's seems really weird that TonyMontana actually tried to build a case on Robocopter (without talking much about anyone else) but didn't vote him.
TonyMontana 216 seems like a lie if he's talking about "sucking at Day 1s in general", unless he's specifically referring to his Town game? I certainly can't fault that he IS sucking.
Robocopter 219 asks "hey do you feel like having a claim to get the game going?". I don't recall Robocopter being THIS MUCH of a n00b when I saw him in that one other game I was thinking about replacing into.
farside 221 says that she wants to see Robocopter scum hunt. Normally you don't say that sort of thing unless you're reading VI on someone... Yet she was voting Robocopter at the time. I'll have to keep reading on this.

Page 10 notes: Ellibereth orders crap at fancy restaurants. I now know what to get him for his birthday.
Seacore 227 ignores three players - Ellibereth, me, and ElectricBadger. I am curious as to why he didn't mention either of me or Ellibereth considering at the time we were fairly universally considered Town.
Seacore 230 starts with a strange defense of Maemuki, who has been needlessly tunneling on his player slot throughout. Other than that, I'm still not sure what to think about his "that's about as good a Day 1 as you can get without a truly stupid scum". It's not necessarily a scum tell, but at the same time it doesn't make me feel particularly good about him. His inability to offer any specific information that would result from Robocopter's flip doesn't help.
dramonic and ani act as comic relief. If one of them is Town and another scum, the Townie of the bunch needs a long lecture after the game.
As mentioned before, TonyMontana 236 features information already said by Seacore, so his content total doesn't go up from the bottom of the barrel. I sound like an <insert unpleasant word here> in 248 when I respond to Seacore about it.

[Vi]

Pages 10 to 15. Getting tired.

VasudeVa is still scum. ElectricBadger is still scum.
Robocopter is back to believable VI territory.
LlamaFluff and farside seem Town; the latter in a rather angry kind of way.
Ellibereth is still Town.
I'm conflicted on Seacore.
dramonic is probably going to wind up Town, in spite of how he really needs to be impaled on the Percequine's

Megahorn

unihorn.
ani is a mystery.
There is literally nothing to say about TonyMontana except that L-Fluff hates him.

Page 11 notes: farside 250 kind of dashes my expectation that she was reading Robocopter as VI. Meh, this isn't a particularly solid tell on her...
farside overreacting like heck to L-Fluff cements that the driving theme of this game appears to be OMGUS. They seem to stop arguing quickly...
...and dramonic 256 continues that theme. I can't fault the vote, but etc. On the other hand, I don't think dramonic-scum would do this to his partner.
Oh hey farside is apparently Town in E-Badger 257. I wonder when THAT changed.
Robocopter 262 reads really really newby. I mean is he really this newby? We're not THAT advanced in here, although this isn't a particularly easy read.
dramonic 263 essentially says that ani and VV are scum. I definitely don't see VV+dramonic. Still, I was hoping for more and better. -.- I don't really put much stock in the "contradiction" Robocopter pointed out in 264.
I still hate Seacore 269 for the premature claim. With that said, I'm going to bargain that Seacore disagrees with or doesn't know about the theory behind my stance, so etc.
The last part of Seacore 274 kind of makes me wtf. I don't think Seacore would fabricate that sort of thing... so I guess that is to dramonic's credit... OH WAIT no, dramonic called him on it later. I would like for Seacore to fill in that blank.

Page 12 notes: Robocopter's vote on Seacore makes sense from what I perceive as Robocopter's view.
farside 278 asks the question that has been on my mind for quite a while now.
Seacore saying he's never been scum (and later attempting to back it up) seems like something confident Town would do? I couldn't actually get on that forum, but I don't think he would have anticipated that...
I'm not sure why Ellibereth called TonyMontana probTown in 286. This post betrays a simple honesty that suggests Town.
I look like a total <unpleasant word here> with my exchange with dramonic. Oh well, he needed it.
Now we have Seacore with his "position in this game" argument. I'm not thrilled, although I've said as much earlier. But this argument, as terrible as it is, goes against my previous reads on Seacore...
LlamaFluff 299 feels weak all over.

Page 13 notes: farside makes a jump on Seacore. These are all good reasons for accusing Seacore. I'm not sure if I should be convinced that Seacore is more likely scum though... This is starting to get confusing.
Maemuki 303 is sadly not unlike what I would expect from her-Town.
I can't argue much with the first sentence of TonyMontana 304. The rest of the post isn't much good at all.
farside 306 points out something interesting with dramonic and E-Badger (curiously, I already had them marked down as potentially linked before). Did I ask which votes on the Robocopter wagon were opportunistic? I'm pretty sure I did... and got Seacore's as an answer. That's "different"... Assuming E-Badger and VasudeVa scum, that's one on and one off the Robocopter wagon. I would guess that the third one would be on the wagon too, unless they showed up too late to vote.
dramonic said that E-Badger went back on his position after dramonic remarked that he posted V/LA, but that's not what I remember...
E-Badger goes for the dramonic policy lynch in 310. This kind of stands at odds with what farside just posted... Hey, haven't I seen something similar to this before? Also attacking me, etc.
VV 313 still doesn't convince me of anything. Which "so many other D1 scummy candidates" are there? The only one mentioned in this post is dramonic.
farside 316 brings up another good point.
dramonic 323 is just obnoxious. Why do people insist that they have to play like this? Or is he scum?

Page 14 notes: dramonic attempts self-meta in and around 330, which is pretty lol.
farside 335 beats me to questioning E-Badger finding reasons to continue to suspect Robocopter. I do like Robocopter finally coming clean with his answer to Seacore (and Badger)'s objection from two pages ago.
VasudeVa 337 suggests he's waiting on D2 so he can REALLY go to work. I'll believe it when I see it. Plus I hope his opinion of Seacore isn't COMPLETELY based on meta. In any event, I wouldn't be surprised if both dramonic and Robocopter are Town if VV is scum.
E-Badger absolutely refusing to help Robocopter out with his meta looks terrible, although technically it's the best E-Badger would be able to do in that situation.
E-Badger 343 is where the fun IMO begins, so I'm going to skip a lot of this argument because I've already read it. I'm still bothered about E-Badger "bragging in the postgame about nailing scum D1". There's no need to brag in the postgame when you can LYNCH THEM and then brag.
Robocopter 347 is IIoA, the equivalent of wikispam. But at this point, nothing unexpected. His plea against dramonic falls pretty flat.

Page 15 notes: ani makes a post to say he's still surfing the dramonic wagon.
VV 354 doesn't really help anything anywhere.
Twice on this page we see useless people accusing other useless people. What a farce.
LlamaFluff is exactly the kind of player I would expect to be capable of performing a gambit like Dash: as scum. However, his later push on TonyMontana suggests that he was being genuine with it.
farside 367 correctly calls the gambit (or at least comes close). I don't think they would be scum together, which is a relief. I have to wonder why farside came out and called L-Fluff an anti-Town power role though.

[Vi]

@Vi, VV - This is now the more popular deadline wagon, lets do it

Are we reading the same vote count?

[Vi]

Maybe if we insult animéperv he'll post.~

Of all the lurkers I would at least put him on the same tier as TonyMontana though. Most of his activity has been to say things he has since taken back or maintain the status quo. His vote is on dramonic because dramonic said on Page 2 that he would be fine with an anilynch.

[Vi]

I may as well go ahead and say what I think my reads are going to be at the end of the reread. There are only six pages plus this one left.

I'm calling the team as {VasudeVa, ElectricBadger, animorpherv1}.

VV has said very little to break up the status quo or create content and made quite a few terrible excuses for as much (not including the foreign language one, although it wasn't sufficient to cover what he was trying to dust under the rug with it). I'm disappointed that we didn't stay on him after Page 4 or so. He's the one who tried to get us to test the vote count color theory long after everyone decided it didn't exist AND if it did it was certainly anti-Town. His attention to Robocopter flowed right with everyone else's, but he kept his options open just in case (#21). His vote on ani is not out of line with newbscum trying to distance; his wariness of the E-Badger lynch (which actually has a chance to happen) fits too. Plus really.

Robo's most recent post is, again, consistent with his scum meta. Don't know what I think of this yet but it's WIFOM-y as hell. Is he consciously following up his scum meta to say 'Hey you've studied my meta, why would I do the same stuff?'. Don't like, he's my preferred deadline lynch ATM(Policy/slightscumread and what else). Getting rid of WIFOM makes Mafia easier(Thinking back, I realize that maybe I should not have done those studies...You learn something new everyday x.X).

"Getting rid of WIFOM makes Mafia easier", but that's

exactly what he's throwing up in this post!

I guess I can throw in the immediate reaction to vote me for suspecting him without actually commenting on why I suspected him.

ElectricBadger is still scumhunting only in a reactionary fashion or to push the Robocopter wagon when it started to get good. Oh, and token omnino/Maemuki pressure. This has been rehashed at length. Why are so many people missing this.

ani takes the wild card slot for reasons mentioned in 527. Of all the lurkers, he's the least believable. (cut) Plus of all the wagons he chose to mention in 530, it was refusal to join E-Badger. What about dramonic (the "wagon" ani is on now), Robocopter (the leading wagon), or TonyMontana (the fresh challenger wagon)? Evidently not much.

Looking over it again, TonyMontana is on paper the biggest lurker, but I don't really think it was that malicious, especially compared to ani.

dramonic is within Too Scummy to be Scum range. While his vote on Robocopter is beyond terrible and he specifically says he doesn't want to vote either of my top suspects, I don't think he could try to play this badly. If I'm wrong on this and he's playing to his Town meta as scum, we shall herd him into Mafia Discussion and publicly stone him.

Final answer on Robocopter will likely be VI. Please remove yourself from this wagon unless you have a really compelling reason not to.

I haven't liked a lot of what Seacore has posted but at the same time I don't know if I can equate that with coming from scum.

hp[leaves]/Maemuki is the closest thing to a complete blank. His response to the call to lynch TonyMontana is Townish IMO, so I don't think I want to lynch him Today at least.

There's an outside chance LlamaFluff could be scum with this blatant derail from ElectricBadger and a few other twitches from earlier, but that chance is small enough that I'm not going to bother with it until something else happens. Plus if he doesn't deliver any of this stuff he says he's been keeping in reserve, he's going to be "uncomfortable" tomorrow, and I'd like to think that's not going to happen.

I don't necessarily like everything farside has posted but it seems consistent with Town effort. If I'm wrong, her new avatar should be the Wicked Witch of the West - the anti-Mom.

Ellibereth is etc.

tl;dr Of the three existing wagons {Robocopter, ElectricBadger, TonyMontana} the only one I plan to be on is ElectricBadger.

[Vi]

@Vi:

I stated I never saw reasononing, not that I wouldn't join it if I saw something.

unsee, see Vi

foor lying.

Now where have I seen this before

[Vi]

Also hiding behind semantics is cool and totally ignores what I was getting at.

[Vi]

You say I refuse to join it, but I said, if someone could give me some facts (which I apparently missed) I may join it. That is NOT refusal.

Also hiding behind semantics is cool

and totally ignores what I was getting at.

Plus of all the wagons he chose to mention in 530, it was refusal to join E-Badger.

What about dramonic (the "wagon" ani is on now), Robocopter (the leading wagon), or TonyMontana (the fresh challenger wagon)? Evidently not much.

and btw

ElectricBadger is still scumhunting only in a reactionary fashion or to push the Robocopter wagon when it started to get good. Oh, and token omnino/Maemuki pressure. This has been rehashed at length. Why are so many people missing this.

Vi: Giving you the cases you need so your awkward bus-votes are even easier to make than ever before.

[Vi]

@Vi: This little scenario popped up in my head when I saw your reread up to page 5.

Code: Select all

Dramatis Personae:
Vi: Town Leader, also Scum
Vas: Innocent Townie
Town

Vi: Hey guise! I reread until page 5. Vas is scummy.

Town reaction A: OMG UR RIGHT! *lynch Vas*
Vi: *in the shadows* Hehehehe~
-OR-
Town reaction B: But that's only till page 5...Why are you making Vas look scummy?
Vi: OHSHI...uhh..it's only till page five! I'll do the rest...*in the shadows* Hehehehe...

So, if you were scum it's a win win. If you were town, it did not compute. That's why I am looking for motivations posting a five page re-read way ahead of the rest. You can just infodump all of it in one mega post and still no one will read it. I saw odd and I looked into it. Now, again: What gives?

Are you completely blind or did you miss that I got the same read on you in the next two installments?
And really, do you think your lynch would have come before I got finished with enough of the read to keep coming to a similar conclusion?
Also assuming that I'm scum to show that I'm scum is cool.

And for the record, I did to some extent look into farside

(no votes, in fear of scum saying 'OMG YOU OMGUSED ME/HIM/HER/IT' and getting my ass lynched D1

again

*twitch*

EB 'defense' was from Elli's request. (...) How am I scumbuddies with Badger for that?

Not feeling the Badger lynch because I've sort of started my meta-study on him and his town play is similar enough for me to have doubts. Only ISO skimmed through one game though. It's more of a tone thing and similar defensiveness rather than voting patterns and scumhunt tactics(you know, the important stuff but I'm buzyyyy.) But if town wants to go that way, I have no complaints right now. Everyone else's arguments are not good enough to earn my vote though. I really do want to follow up on this study though, so I hope I do find time to do that.

This "analysis" doesn't actually say anything. He could be Town, you might be wrong, if everyone else goes that way whatever. At least with Seacore you actually tried to link a post with a meta read and put out the effort to link three games you might have read while you were saying nothing.

[Vi]

[Vi]

Actually, the top and bottom lines of that image should be swapped. I fail.

And for the record, I did to some extent look into farside(no votes, in fear of scum saying 'OMG YOU OMGUSED ME/HIM/HER/IT' and getting my ass lynched D1 again. Also part of my don't look liek a noob training program.) before I would have done a proper read on her, I saw dram and that's that. You and Elli are town reads and TM was unresponsive and lurky. It's not as damning as you say it is if you look into the situation back then.

That's odd. I don't see you posting anything about TonyMontana and I don't see you saying anything about farside after that one post (#17) until #28 where you don't bother saying why (but more people were starting to like farside-Town).

[Vi]

Are you completely blind or did you miss that I got the same read on you in the next two installments?

Why are you avoiding the question? Again: Why post reread pages 1-5 a page ahead of the rest instead of posting reread pages 1-20? I am not after the content, the content is legit. I am after the odd continuity. Maybe 5 posts ago, I would have accepted busy/have a life/whatever but it is suspicious why you avoid a very simple question like that...twice.

1) Because it's a lot to read at once
2) Because

I only just finished the whole read

and it's just a hair too close to deadline to dump new/completely different reads down right now.

Also assuming that I'm scum to show that I'm scum is cool.

Uh. How else can you scum hunt if you don't think how scum would think? Actually, that's a serious question. Answer plx. I myself am not sure.

There's a difference between saying that scum are more likely to do things and that I'm more likely to do something as scum because I am scum (IYO).

That's odd. I don't see you posting anything about TonyMontana and I don't see you saying anything about farside after that one post (#17) until #28 where you don't bother saying why (but more people were starting to like farside-Town).

I did say that I thought my wagon was infected with scum, indirectly refering to Tony and farside. Farside was my focus then though which lead to Farside questioning in #14 and #15 then I felt a little better about her with her answers and activity. So I put my attention else where. Attempted to question Tony in #23.

I'll grant #14 and #15, although #15 was still hilariously bad. Even so as of #17 you were still unsure of farside but didn't say try to do much about it. Calling #23 "questioning" is too little too late.

---

Also,

Page 16 notes: L-Fluff 375's clear on Seacore sounds like something scum wouldn't dare say about each other, and it helps me feel better about both of them.
farside's immediate attack on me for starting an E-Badger wagon with her implicit approval is striking for how unnecessary it was. I mean really. From that same post I'm guessing that if TonyMontana is Town, farside is more likely Town.
L-Fluff violently protesting the Robocopter wagon looks good. Seacore protesting the dramonic lynch as well. This is the sort of divisive behavior I want to see.
I'm not sure why Seacore dropped off Robocopter for E-Badger in 399 and then went back within one page when the wagons were the same.

Page 17 notes: farside 403 amuses me because she says that she has no idea why I'm attacking E-Badger. Where have I seen something similar to that before, mom
dramonic 406 is useless, etc.
farside still seems to be suspicious of L-Fluff by 411. If he's scum, he's

really

going the extra mile in this game by now. It's possible, but Iiiiiiunno. He's not my first choice atm.
TonyMontana 414 is about as bad as L-Fluff showed it was.
I want to know what it is Seacore saw in 422 that made him jump off ElectricBadger.

Page 18 notes: (continuing above) So apparently it was because they were against Robocopter. Well, not much to see then.
I disagree with Seacore's reason for clearing E-Badger, although I'm pretty sure I said that already.
This kind of puzzles me.

I'd rather keep around scum who are active and posting and use our least informed lynches to get rid of scum like dram.

I'm trying to see the logic behind this and it's not working.
Oh hey VV 435 says that I'm more likely Town. (in the context of ani being scum who doesn't want to be caught on a slip)
Seacore 446 makes me lol. And apparently ani is lurking too? Gee, why There are some players who can get away with not posting much D1, and neither of VV or ani fit the bill.

Page 19 notes: L-Fluff's question in 450 is odd. Hopefully the motivation behind it will be forthcoming.
I guess I can answer my own question in 453. Just the statistically expected one out of four in that group. I didn't do a good job forming that group though... Still, adding TonyMontana and VasudeVa would have made it a group of six and that's half the game, lol.
hp[l] goes for VV in 457, skipping over Robo and Badger (pleasing no one!) This willingness to avoid the popular wagons speaks well for him.
L-Fluff 470 doesn't sound like a chainsaw on VV. That makes me feel a little better.

Page 20 notes: I don't know why Ellibereth voted hp[l] right then. Well, maybe I do; I remember how naff people thought Maemuki was and hp[l]'s post didn't win any fans.
farside and E-Badger rawr
LlamaFluff announcing too many Town reads is finally pushing me over the edge to call him safe Town.
Seacore stops in to help E-Badger out in 488. I don't know if that's a Townie on the sidelines officiating (I like to do that ^.^ ) or a chainsaw.
farside 489 is pretty reactive. I'll give her credit for going out of her way to START the E-Badger feud but the theme of the game still appears to be OMGUS.
And then I started rereading, and I've already talked about the things up until then.

The only particular change in reads here is that I finally took on L-Fluff-Town.

With that said I completely missed hp[leaves] 529 somehow. I don't agree with about a third of what he said but the rest is not unconvincing, especially since I noted a VV-Fluff connection on my end. If nothing else I'm more convinced that hp[l] is Town.

[Vi]

Going back on topic, here's an unofficial vote count:

*Voting for scum: Vi, farside22, LlamaFluff
*Voting for VI-Town: TonyMontana, Seacore, ElectricBadger, dramonic
*Wasting their votes to varying degrees: Robocopter (on Seacore), VasudeVa (on animorpherv1), Ellibereth (on TonyMontana), hp[leaves] (on LlamaFluff), animorpherv1 (on Vi)

Please adjust your votes accordingly.

If you feel your vote is being unjustly represented in this vote count, now would be a great time to bring up some good reasons why. (Yesterday or today would have been better but etc.)

[Vi]

Argh, why am I having second thoughts? Moments after I posted that, I imagined Vi creeping up behind me and blatantly stealing another 4chan meme. Inb4 'Obvious bus is obvious' and WIFOM. I hate being paranoid. I think I'll be giving up sleep and actually do that reread later.

0.0
*retreats into your closet*

Double negative?

That's not implausible.

Also, in order for E-Badger to be at L-1 you would have to vote him.

[Vi]

Where is Seacore?

[Vi]

Wait what I completely missed L-Fluff 543.

Actually, what Fluff is saying may explain why I don't see a lot of connections between people and why OMGUS has been the rule of the Day. And now I understand why TM has been his target of choice. There's more to say, but if there's a recruitment mechanism I'm going to stop for Today.

farside, is there a particular reason you keep trying to suggest L-Fluff could be scum?

[Vi]

ITT, ani lurks like a professional.

Well, it's not really ITT, but you get the idea.

[Vi]

I disagree with Yoseacorian2.
I'm willing to buy that someone of Robocopter's skill level would be hung up on Cutting Discussion Off Too Early or Waiting For A Claim or somesuch rhetoric (or put in a more newbie-friendly way: don't drop premature hammers or people will go for your head for some reason). I don't think it's particularly a tell given that we still had something like 24 hours to go.

Plus nobody likes awkward self-preservation hammers.

[Vi]

Hello Socrates!

I don't know if you've read Rule 14 yet, but new replacements have to go through a special Welcome Ceremony before they can start playing. Let's sing something together!

[Vi]

Anyway, we've got 48 hours, so who should I vote?

Well, the person at L-1 got there for a reason, so etc.

[Vi]

@Socrates: My 531 covers what you need to know.

[Vi]

unless you're

[Seacore]

scum,

which you probably are

Nao what makes you say that?

[Vi]

I can't say I was expecting a claim like that. And this Night in particular doesn't favor lynching a claimed Watcher, although the flavor name is kind of... off.

At the same time I don't want to lynch Robocopter based on his play. At this rate, however, Vanilla Townie is starting to look like an unusual role to claim. And from the perspective of E-Badger's claim the "not knowing what to do as a V. Townie" argument makes a bit more sense.

The comical third option of starting an entirely new wagon right now is unfortunately a comical option unless there's a

lot

of support for another of my scumreads that I don't know about.

Wow, asking for a claim at L-2, without any confirmed additional votes? Rolefishing much? Fortunately for you that's apparently not scummy this game, and Vi will probably attack me for calling you out for it.

No, I'm attacking you for sniping me on attacking you for calling him out on it. Go read what I said to Seacore after Robocopter claimed. (and refrain from calling me his scumpartner for it, to pre-empt that response)

Question for ElectricBadger. You didn't say anything along the lines of "Unvote me you morons" after claiming, but simply assumed you were going to die ("Catch you guys in another game"). Why claim, then? We would find out everything except the Robot Pony part after you died.

Biggest problem I am having now is that a lot of EBs behavior lines up with that claim.

Which behavior is this?

---

Unsee: ElectricBadger

See: Robocopter87

(L-2)
I'm not entirely sure this is the right move, but it probably is.

[Vi]

Question: Did Robo claim a flavour name to his VT role?

Not really.

Robocopter 270

[Vi]

Also while I'm on the first page this would be good to know.

3. At the end of each Day, there is a 24-hour period of Twilight.

3a. Players who have been Lynched may not speak during this time, beyond a "Bah" post which does not reference the game in any way. Violating this rule will adversely affect your

Faction's

ability to attain their Win Condition.

[Vi]

Breaking my self-imposed "no Mafia at work" rule to say:
There is no reason to lynch E-Badger's claim Today. None.

[Vi]

@Ellibereth: Amisheduardo's tell has to do with replacements criticizing the play of the people they replace, nya.

Seacore's post that you quoted doesn't quite do that so much as say YOU SAW NOTHING, NOTHING I TELL YOU. I'm not sure where that falls in terms of Amished's theory, but it is a lot of words and more than a bit unnecessary.

Anyway, I would gladly trade this Robocopter wagon for an animorpher or maybe Seacore/VV wagon. The major issue with jumping wagons now is that we will likely have to either ignore whichever claim is made by the wagonee or No Lynch.

[Vi]

O Great Vasudius, who are the scum on the Robocopter wagon?

[Vi]

Seacore and Vi wanted a flavour claim?

Robot Unicorn, or Vanilla townie in regular Mafia terms. Or in Layman's terms, a good guy with pretty colors.

The Sample Role PM is in the first post, but thanks~

I'll take this wagon, sure.

Unsee: Robocopter87

See: animorpherv1

(L-4)

Will look more closely at VV 619 in a few.

[Vi]

I'm still fine with the Robo lynch

but I will never support what I think is a scumdriven wagon.

Why?

Seacore 627 doesn't actually say anything.

[Vi]

I'm still fine with the Robo lynch

but I will never support what I think is a scumdriven wagon.

Why?

Seacore 627 doesn't actually say anything.

D1 is my policy lynch day(that said, I've never actually had done a real policy lynch before. ). anilurker is a 2 in one scum/policy lynch.

Why is Robocopter a policy lynch?

Also

ani is at L-1

, for the vision-impaired.

[Vi]

lol, McGriddle. I have to admit I'm a fan of him ever since he demolished a different Newbie game as scum.

I certainly can't disagree that you've been on policy lynches only (plus ElectricBadger) Today. What's your take on Maemuki[leaves]?

[Vi]

I feel like everyone just ignored my Seacore case and jumped on a lurk I mentioned days ago with meta.

It's hard to ignore him when he keeps posting.

He'll probably be here Tomorrow.

[Vi]

Modkill please, so he autolosses. He does not deserve to win with town with that kind of attitude.

If you're trying to win Town cred, you're failing. Badly.

With that said,

===[]

[Vi]

How is having principles an attempt to win Town cred? Especially with such clear disrespect for the game? Do not see a connection, nope.

You don't ask for modkills except in cases where the game has been compromised. (Normally you ask for forced replacements. Or you just lynch them.)

Actually, reading it again there's another reason you shouldn't win Town credit for that post.

He does not deserve to win

with town

with that kind of attitude.

Is that so~?

[Vi]

A VT claim is the best thing we're going to get from morph.
I can't convince people to look at Seacore?

Not Today, no.

[Vi]

Why are you so insistent that VV is not scum?

[Vi]

I don't post for a day and ani goes from 0 votes to lynch?

Wow.

Any other thoughts on the subject?

Also, am I the only person seeing a connection between these events?
*LlamaFluff says scum are looking for partners
*Scum are probably colorless via flavor
*LlamaFluff claims to have no colors

[Vi]

Oh right, I forgot to ask this mainly theory question: Why not lynch a believable PR claim on D1? They're obviously going to get NKed anyway so I don't really see the logic behind that. Unless it's an open setup with a doc, it's kinda pointless. I'm happy with the Badger wagon dispersion(and finally losing my policy lynch virginity. Yay!) but I don't really want to see our watcher die at night since it's kind of a top tier PR..I think.

I don't know yet what I think about Llama's gambit. >.>.

Lynching the power role means the other person to die is someone of scum's choosing.
Lynching someone else means the other person to die is someone of Town's choosing, plus there's no guarantee that that power role will die overnight.

[Vi]

Also, am I the only person seeing a connection between these events?
*LlamaFluff says scum are looking for partners
*Scum are probably colorless via flavor
*LlamaFluff claims to have no colors

I thought something similar, but wouldn't it be faster and less dangerous if he just claimed miller without any of that other stuff? I mean, if he is telling the truth, its not like his scum buddies need to be told those parts and it only makes his miller claim look shiftier.

That's a good point, actually.

On that note I think the best thing to do at this point is leave the matter aside until Tomorrow.
We can't do anything about it now and speculation would probably be best left for after the mod confirms some things for us.

[Vi]

I certainly can't disagree that you've been on policy lynches only (plus ElectricBadger) Today.

What's your take on Maemuki[leaves]?

This was dropped by VasudeVa.

[Vi]

[VV]

seemed to be against the bigger wagons with actual reasoning

Yyyyyyyyyou're going to have to explain this one.

I'm not sure I agree that this is not a bus, either, but we're going to learn whether that possibility should be considered in a few hours.

hp[leaves] probably needs more scrutiny than he got Today regardless though.

[Vi]

Waiting on Ani flip, Good night!

^^^

Stupid ethics.

?

[Vi]

By the power of

Vital Orange

and

Regal Purple

, I command the malfunction of ElectricBadger to be debugged, and for their Colour to be restored!

[Vi]

Oh come now don't leave me hanging like this.

[Vi]

I'm very confused.
Vi: Did you know that by stating the bold that EB would be restored?

I want to vote for Seacore for yesterday but I'm confused by the scene today.

Anyone who can explain it to me would be much help.

You can't seriously be this clueless.
I became a POWERFUL WIZARD and chanted my magic arcanum. Lo and behold, exactly what I said to happen did! This must surely be a work of blind coincidence and bravado on my part!

----

So now that I have a better idea of what we're dealing with ITT, let's start kicking monochromatic rear.

ElectricBadger is Town. The attempted kill directed at him pretty much cements that.
I'm Town. Either I'm scum who just happened to have an ability that nullified the scumkill during the Day for purposes of bamboozling all of you, or I just called myself out as a blatant pro-Town power role. (This role is functionally a Poison Doctor, btw.)
LlamaFluff is Town due to what Socrates said in Twilight. He, too, would have to be pulling a massive game-long gambit to be scum. (Hey L-Fluff, did you breadcrumb your role?)
Robocopter is Town via scumhunting for a change. <.<

That leaves the scum wedged into these people:
*Ellibereth
*dramonic
*farside
*hp[leaves] (rep. Maemuki)
*Seacore (rep. omnino)
*Socrates (rep. TonyMontana)
*VasudeVa

I would estimate three scum, and I wouldn't discount the possibility of four tbh.

Overnight I decided Seacore was more likely Town because he played the "never been scum" card and was able to back it up. It's tempting to write Ellibereth and dramonic off immediately for D1 play, but I would like to look into Ellibereth in particular again before doing so.

If we take those three away, then the scum are wedged into a box of four. Of these four I'm currently most confident that hp[leaves] is scum. Aside from Maemuki's very wallflowerish and nonserious play, I find that hp[l] only posting to make a generic comment in Twilight to be suspect and his sudden L-1 vote for the Badger to be strangely placed as well. Which of the other three is Town, I'm not sure. Things like farside's setupspeculationposts Today and her tendency to stay behind the curve on calling people Town really make me want to twitch her way. TonyMontana doesn't have a leg to stand on and Socrates doesn't much either. VasudeVa has managed to trip literally every scumtell I have.

See: hp[leaves]

(L-5)

One other reason we're going into high gear Today. I suspect that the Town's power roles will stop working as the game goes on. Whether this has an equal and opposite effect on the scum powers, I don't know. But since we already have a stable of pro-Town players to work with, now is a good time to press our advantage.

Oh also everything I thought I knew about the setup before ElectricBadger's claim was wrong, lol.

[Vi]

Here is what isn't making sense. Usually when there is mafia there is a death. Not a loss of color. Did EB die in that scene or just loss color. This is really important for me to understand.

ElectricBadger did not die. He was (ignoring flavor) poisoned.

[Vi]

If EB was poisned. Who was the NK?

I mean, having a powerole that could depoison someone and the "Mafia" only poisoned wouldn't make much sense. If in fact there is A posioning SK then what did the Mafia do?

^bingo

[Vi]

Posting before prod. I've skimmed everything up to this point but not with a mental capacity to form responses.

...well, beyond these two because they're right in front of me.

@VasudeVa: Why don't we save the theory questions for postgame.~

Seacore 756 is making me twitch on a couple of levels. One example of why is kind of hard to miss even through insomnia.

What if

our 'poisoner' last night also gained the colours he stole. That would mean that he has/had(if Vi returned the colours with the spell) 3 colours. He only needs to find the others, but it'll slow down due to what I imagine is an overlap.

Hp,

stop mod-guessing

and start looking for an alternative to your lynch.

[Vi]

Catching up.

Socrates 732 makes me want to impale him with something. What ani was

doesn't matter

. If you don't have a reason to speculate on the setup,

stop

.

I have no idea why Seacore is not seeing after 736. "I have no idea why people are ignoring VasudeVa" - people like you, right? That's two posts now where Seacore is going at cross-purposes.

Hey Badger, why dramonic?

If there's a (kill) doc in this game, that makes 3 confirmed town roles <<

Why the << ?

@hp 752: It's possible. *twitch* though.

I am not willing to vote Soc/sea or VV based on this post alone and how the votes are currently going.

I don't follow.

Is anyone else seeing a ring forming between hp[l], dramonic, and Seacore?

I'm not sure if I have enough of a reason to unvote hp[l] and flip to Seacore or not. I'll think about it, but I'm leaning toward "yes".

[Vi]

What do you mean by ring?
As in, scumteam is us three?

Certainly some interaction. Although I think I got it wrong; maybe more of a daisy chain.

Socrates -- dramonic -- hp[l] -- Seacore

[Vi]

In other news I'm sad most are ignoring my comments about the lack of kill.

It would be kind of hypocritical to fish for your role after getting someone to impale Socrates for his setup speculation.

@Vi: I'm reading VV post on and making defenses for others. He also points out they could be ignoring each other do to lack of posting and if that was true about everyone morph would not have been lynched.

I'm still confused. You said you weren't willing to vote for Socrates/Seacore or VV, but your vote's on Seacore now...

[Vi]

@vi: What specifically are you talking about when you say you see a daisy chain? They are all hot topics of discussion so them having interactions with each other isn't too surprising.

Timely defenses of each other.

The thing is, I have no idea where you're getting the idea that ani was an SK. Blue normally isn't the color used for Town, but nothing in that role name suggests "SK". That's why the speculation is "pointless".

What do you think of Seacore?

[Vi]

EBWOP: "pointless" would be better replaced by "unfounded".

[Vi]

How confident is everyone that myself, Vi, EB and RC are town here? Im actually debating a massclaim here, especially as all of the "probably town" seeming people have claimed at least partially.

I don't think it's a bad idea, especially since only Robocopter has fullclaimed.

I'll go for it on condition that the people who have already partly claimed elaborate on their claims

last

. No color reveal, of course.

On that subject,

There's also an early post in which hp calls out Llama, saying that it is never a good idea to claim colours. The reason was, because town don't have colour as a win condition.
Now, I think I know why Llama thought it might occassionally be okay to claim colour, and I believe his claim for the moment. But I think that hp's comment on the subject tastes of town.

I'm curious as to why LlamaFluff hasn't said anything about this.

[Vi]

I'm going to assume people can read my posts and tell what I'm thinking. It's the same reason I don't FoS.

[Vi]

In other news, we seem to've moved from condescending to passive aggressive. Yay.

I feel like a real menace to society now.

Maybe I'm being just a bit on the cuppy cake side but I'm still holding out for evidence that there is supposed to be more than one kill. As it stands I can understand if people don't want to follow L-Fluff's lead. I can

suggest

from talking to the mod shortly before the game went into sign-ups that this setup came about in a relatively short time, so it's not completely implausible that something might have been overlooked in balance.

Even if there's no massclaim, we still have material to work with.

*Why hasn't LlamaFluff voted Today?
*Is anyone else noticing that hp[leaves] is explicitly looking for a third party and only a third party?
*Seacore, you've seen Socrates play before. Do you think he's an anti-Town player in general?
*Seacore, if VV is your top suspect, why not vote him?
*Has anyone else noticed that between the defenses and griping Socrates isn't actually scumhunting?
*Is it just me or is VasudeVa laying very, very low Today?
*Why hasn't hp[leaves] voted Today?

I definitely have a theory here but I'll wait for responses to the above.

[Vi]

Vi says no too at this point. L-Fluff is doing a good job of making himself look shady atm

for which I partly blame the avatar

.

Also,

if 7/11 sold keyboards i would buy one.

Without implying any schadenfreude I found this funny.

Post on what I was talking about earlier to come when I'm caught up elsewhere.

[Vi]

@mod: This is exam week. Please extend the deadline to compensate.

[Vi]

I love how many people went from Mae-null to Mae-scummy.

I hate how it had to come to this. Because claiming at L-1 is pretty risky(quickhammers), I beg for one of you to unvote. I'll claim at L-2.

Risk is the whole point of claiming.
Rest assured someone who quickhammers will meet a similar fate tomorrow.

Or is there anyone in particular you suspect will quickhammer?

[Vi]

That can be arranged for the time being.

Unsee: hp[leaves]

[Vi]

Is there anything else you'd like to add to your claim?

[Vi]

It refers getting killed at night as malfunctioning and dying. At first I just thought it was flavor; but as EB got poisoned and malfunctioned due to that, it made me think poisoning is the only kill method in this game.

Hmm... That's plausible based on the first statement you made Today.

Why were you pro-massclaim earlier if that would have meant you had to claim this role?

[Vi]

*sets out Socrates bait*

*sets out more hp[leaves] bait*

I am sort of inclined to believe the claim because he did somewhat play like a BP

How so?

dramonic, I take it you want to lynch Magnezone[leaves]?

[Vi]

Challenge the prod time limit, try to fit in without catching much attention by doing some weak scumhunting to not get NKed and lynched, and attempt to redirect any attention drawn towards you. That's how I imagine any BP to play anyway although he did play that horribly. (This is not from experience, just some guidelines on how I imagine a typical player would play a BP.). Maybe I'll do a meta check to see if it's his scumgame or his 'please don't kill me townie' game.

...isn't that how you would expect scum to play?

Has anyone actually ever seen a scumbag claim Beloved Princess?

Do mods actually use Beloved Princess?

[Vi]

Also, his support of a mass claim is a huge tell. Knowing he was the likely lynch today - if it really would give us two nights - would make claiming our PRs an especially bad move.

Doesn't this assume hp is a strong player?

hp[l] has been onsite almost as long as I have. He wasn't the strongest of players when we first met, but I would expect better after like 1.5 years or so.

I've never played with a BP, but I was a paranoid gun owner once, and I imagine the play would be similar: both roles are ones that you WANT to be targetted as the NK

Actually, the games I've seen with a BP (windkirby's M. Normal; Kmd4390's Twilight Mafia; I don't remember if I Hate Vanilla had one but that game was odious to begin with) also had a Guard that could stop NKs on BPs

because

their ability still activated if they were NKd.
Optimal play as a Beloved Princess is to

replace out

fly under the radar in the least scummy way possible.

I'm not sure how that affects the reasoning behind your conclusion about him supporting a massclaim, but I still agree with your conclusion and would like to see what hp[l] has to say about it.

[Vi]

If you can openly conclude that malfunction is the only kill method, you are scum. And it means scum do not have a kill.

Agree with the first but not the second. Notice also--

Also the vig comment seems weird as we had only one kill attempt last night.

No, we had one

successful

kill attempt last Night. (Also, I may be going blind but which Vig comment)

[Vi]

*sets out farside bait*

[Vi]

Wait. we should leave him alive. If Llama is right and there is a COLOR COP, just investigate him, no?

I'm becoming increasingly skeptical about this prospect.

Sorry I'm still happy with my vote till someone proves the scum don't have a kill.

I really don't feel like rehashing this issue.

VV 865's flimsy excuse for keeping his vote on hp while keeping up the baseless setup speculation on top of his blatant waffle in 855 has finally pushed me over.

See: VasudeVa

(L-5)

"Your failed promises of delivering meta-based analysis and NK analysis (as any type of scumhunting we should expect from you) are the bread of Vi's accusation!
And this lynch is the delicious mustard on that bread! It is the mustard of your doom!"

[Vi]

First glance I like Socrates to VV wagon, but I do see some connections between the two, especially with VV-TM

Where at?

[Vi]

hp[leaves], why aren't you voting for VasudeVa after 857?

Socrates, who's your second choice for your vote?

farside, same question.

[Vi]

LlamaFluff: Please cast a vote.

[Vi]

Seacore: So you've been playing in self-preservation mode all Day?

Also

VasudeVa is at L-1

etc.

[Vi]

Why did you 180 on whether hp was playing like a Beloved Princess?
When did you start to suspect hp?
Why do you want to lynch the B. Princess claim?
What happened to Socrates?
What is it with people posting from phones; they're useless for it

[Vi]

Vas: L-1 means claim time.

only if you plan on hammering

[Vi]

I hate how slow I'm being with this game. Exams are finally over so I'll try to get back into it tomorrow.

Until then,

Wait. we should leave him alive. If Llama is right and there is a COLOR COP, just investigate him, no?

I'm becoming increasingly skeptical about this prospect.

Hmm? Why?

Town has no reason to know colors.

Elli, who would you be willing to vote Today?

---

Also, I can think of a very good reason NOT to lynch the Beloved Princess claim Today.
In the event that the BP is targeted with an NK,

we'll know it in advance

by virtue of the poisoning kill method, and can respond accordingly (ideally, by lynching someone before hp dies).

Please get off the hp wagon and move elsewhere.

[Vi]

VaVa: You like meta, right? Tell me how your play relates to this game.

[Vi]

....Is this a serious question?

Yes. I like your answer, although I'm not saying why.

By the way, don't act like I have all year. Look up Mafia Dodgeball for a better example of how you're supposed to play.

Unsee: VasudeVa

Now until then, let's talk some more.

Why do you think farside is spoony? I don't think she ever said anything beyond a softclaim about how she

might

know what's going on. Is she scum, or just wrong?
I don't think we're going to get a MyLo if the poisoning is the only kill (which I suspect) and we're at odd numbers now. They have to be able to get through me first~
I'll grant that the BP will have more of an impact later in the game, but see the note that we'll be able to lynch someone before hp actually dies.
I can't completely deny that hp isn't the most helpful Townie out there, although he's done a lot better than a couple of people in history.
Track/Watch WIFOM is just that. Again, there's someone else they should be targeting too.~

----

farside - Why did you back down from wanting a VV Top claim?
You said you were happy with your Seacore vote until someone "proved" that there is no extra kill (how you want anyone to do that, I'm not sure) but were evidently willing to threaten VV. What's going on?

What's most puzzling about the VV wagon is that there are only two people on it who were on other wagons - dramonic and myself.

I know it's finals week but we're running out of time ._.

See: Socrates

(L-4)
Take charge, take a stand. hp's not getting lynched.

[Vi]

If you can openly conclude that malfunction is the only kill method, you are scum.

My role PM implies that malfunctioning and then dying is the only kill method. And the only "kill" that succeeded last night had that kill method. I'm not up for lynching Seacore unless there are two kills the next night.

Joy, we're on Easy Mode.

Ehhhh, Ijji Modo? Kimo~i

That's a nice counterpoint though.

hp was scummy to begin with,

his claim is full of holes, the attempt at WIFOM and evasiveness to explain his play just reeks of scum,

and a lynch will only be riskier nearer endgame (as will a NK). I'm more content with where my vote is at now than before the BP stuff, actually.

I keep saying that the lynch/NK actually isn't as risky as it's made out to be, but whichever.

*Could you please show me the holes in question? (aside from his support for a massclaim)
*Are you referring to VasudeVa's attempt at explaining his behavior as well as his "Haha, WIFOMing the scum" comment?
(Worth noting - the lynch flavor is

also

"malfunctioned and died". Except with more cuppy cakes.)

I'm increasingly convinced otherwise, actually. In retrospect there was nothing indicating I couldn't speak at the start of the day, and having guaranteed claims from all our investigation roles is unlikely.

In all probability there WASN'T any reason you couldn't speak. That's what poisoning is about, nya.

I take it as a natural extension of this that you think Seacore is scum?

What do you think of hp[leaves]+VasudeVa?

---

Everyone seems to want to believe that the poison is the only method and is the "mafia" method. More power to you. I already explain how I can't see that as having a nonkill mafia is not only frustrating to scum it's unbalanced in my view

The Mafia has a kill. It's a poison kill. People

can

actually die from it, etc.

You asked me if I was hammering and stated I should only want a claim if I'm hammering him. So how did I back down from wanting a claim?

This is kind of simple.
*If you ask for a claim, you want to hammer. This is both/and.
*You asked for a claim.
*You didn't want to hammer.

I said I would look at the 3 but if I don't believe in hammering someone because of my own views why push it then?

I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'll spin it like this--why ask someone to claim when you DON'T have any intention of hammering them?

I also don't see why Seacore is getting town cred from his blant vote hopping and lack of views on why he finds anyone scum.

I don't think anyone is giving him Town credit per se.

---

@mod: Please send the Prod Unicorn to haunt dramonic's nightmares

---

@Seacore: So now there are wagons on Socrates, VasudeVa, hp[leaves], and yourself.
You've expressed an interest in lynching all of the first three. Do you like the one you're on now, specifically? Why?

[Vi]

Vi: How do you know the poison kills someone? Are you saying it's a delay kill where we know someone's color is taken but they live thru the day?

*slow nod*
This implies that the last kill ignores poison - i.e. if there is one scum left and the last poison grants their Win Condition, said scum doesn't have to wait for the poison to work. But that will be a while in coming.

What about the theory on the front with the wincon? I had believed it to be serial killer over a mafia win con.

I think flavorwise it's fair to say that whoever's responsible for the colorless machine aka the poisoning is the one with the Win Condition.
I think at this point it would still be best to assume we have three scum.

Soc stated he had a town read. My gut tells me he's scum and he's special.

I'm assuming you're referring to Seacore here?

Y'know, I think I'll grant your wish.

Unsee: Socrates

See: Seacore

(L-3)

----

No comment on what hp is saying. I would rather VV :dealwithit: himself.

[Vi]

farside, at risk of sounding repetitive--do you want VV to claim?

[Vi]

I think one good thing came out of this discussion, at least.

mmm not sure. But it should be obvious reading the front page that Ani didn't have VT role. I also do note that the sample PM doesn't mention the colors it just says you are very colorful.

RC can you clear up one thing for me. Are you told what your colors are?

Please don't say what they are just say yes or no.

You are a Robot Unicorn.

You have no special abilities, but you're very Colourful!

Your Colours are: REDACTED

You know that there are dark forces at work in the Digital Kingdom, and they would be very interested to know your Colours...

Win Condition: You win when all the threats to the Digital Rainbow Kingdom have been eliminated.

Please confirm receipt of your role via return PM.

And not only that, I'm a power role and I can confirm that I was also told my colors (and there's no reason to believe that a V. Townie

wouldn't

).
It's a simple logical leap to see that every Town-aligned player knows their colors, especially after the multiple to-dos earlier about OMG NO COLOR CLAIMING.

So why does farside not know this?

Unsee: Seacore

See: farside22

(L-5)

[Vi]

I missed the your colours are: redacted in the sample PM. I thought I was feeling lucky and catching a scum slip and I knew what the whole colors thing was about so what are you saying I'm scummy about Vi?

I'm not buying it.

It's a simple logical leap to see that every Town-aligned player knows their colors,

especially after the multiple to-dos earlier about OMG NO COLOR CLAIMING.

It's really hard to claim colors when you don't know what they are.~

[Vi]

Re: farside thing - I dont really think its much of a tell, I could easily see town asking this hoping for scum mistake.

A scum mistake from Robocopter?

Also I don't find your being rationale at all with my push and claim today at all.

I haven't been rational for about four months now. I'm just being irrational against your favor.

Please explain.

[Vi]

Re: farside thing - I dont really think its much of a tell, I could easily see town asking this hoping for scum mistake.

A scum mistake from Robocopter?

Yep

I almost failed out of middle school three times, but I'm not getting that farside was trying to investigate Robocopter from that question or anything around it. Or am I misreading something?

[Vi]

Tch. I'm not convinced, but I'm not going to get support.

I'm not sure if hp is scum, looking over things. But I do think this is the right direction to go.

Unsee: farside22

See: Socrates

(L-3)

[Vi]

ITT, VasudeVa attempts to use rhetoric to further his points and it only makes him come across as scum overacting to make up for his ability to be convincing normally.

At this point I think we need a lynch. Just about anyone will do, although I'm not partial to lynching the Beloved Princess claim fwiw. We have enough smoke and mirrors at this point that having a definite reference point would be useful.

L-Fluff, farside, and E-Badger are at the bottom of who I would lynch. I'm not sure what to do with Robocopter or hp[leaves] but I don't think lynching them Today is the best of ideas. I'm sympathetic to the Seacore wagon but I don't think scum would ply the "never been scum" card. I know I said that VasudeVa had tripped every scumtell I had at the beginning of the Day, but he's since found more that I had forgotten and I'm not sure if it's confirmation bias or just confirmation. Ellibereth and dramonic are going right under the radar; dramonic in particular needs more hate time. Socrates is currently the one who looks most clueless and informationless. I suspect at least one of the people claiming V/LA is scum (exams or no).

If VasudeVa is scum dramonic is very likely to be a partner attempting to soft-bus through the game. Actually {Socrates, VasudeVa, dramonic} doesn't sound bad given the Robocopter wagon (which dramonic and TonyMontana were on late-Day, and dramonic has since dropped entirely) and dramonic's tendency to wind up egging on most of the wagons except but not doing much else.

Let's go.

[Vi]

L-Fluff,

farside

, and E-Badger are at the bottom of who I would lynch

Eh?

If farside is scum, she's heavily posting scum who has made a reasonably specific claim.

I'm sympathetic to the Seacore wagon but I don't think scum would ply the "never been scum" card/quote]I still don't get this. But yeah, omini play looks towwwn.

*reads again*
I don't either. But the other problem is that Seacore doesn't really fit in my picture of who the other scum are. (Specifically, if hp[l] is scum, I would look to him next.)

What about omnino looks towwwn?
Why do you want to vote for farside?
Didn't you just get done saying you were willing to vote Seacore (AND farside)?

---

Seacore, we have this awesome Socrates wagon going. 'Want on?

[Vi]

I am totally skimming. This farside claim was where?

Why not do some research on the person you said you were willing to vote for, nya?

And feel free to say whatever you like about Seacore, even if it's not about omnino specifically.

[Vi]

Don't think it's good to say the reason I think Omini is town now. Seacore himself has produced nothing I find particularly town IIRC. I WOULD want a wagon on him if the deadline wasn't so close.

What about Seacore would make you want a wagon on him?

Scrolling through farside ISO and STILL DON'T SEE IT ARGH. Help?

Look for why she has been locked onto Seacore all Day.

[Vi]

We demand more bussing from dramonic

[Vi]

Who do you want me to bus, Socrates? :p

I'm not picky. Choose a scumpartner, state your reasoning, and bus away!~

[Vi]

Given that dramonic disappeared after I asked him to do something that required more than a joke response, I think we can conclude that "bussing" may have been the correct term...

[Vi]

But I'm already doing what you're asking me to Vi
No need to post when there's nothing to update!

[

X

]

[Vi]

Is that s gin of disagreement?

[

O

]

I would like to point out to the bemused audience that dramonic is doing whatever he can to avoid actually talking about the game.

[Vi]

*lynch anyone everyone else finds suspicious*

lol k

[Vi]

Oh hey there are 24 hours to deadline.

Mod: Extension plz plz pretty plz

[Vi]

Anything wrong with what I'm pointing out that is stopping you guys from lynching hp[scum]? The vote stays for now, in case any of you start listening to reason. Although, with the deadline, I'll be here later in case I need to change votes.

Nothing I haven't already said.

Quit being coy and bus already.

[Vi]

Alright, I know what to do.
We got incoming deadline,
So we got to lynch someone or no lynch.
No lynch is just stupid.
So we have to lynch someone.
I think we lynch Seacore.
I want everyone to say who they want dead. No big fancy opinion. Just a name.
Please.

*twitch*

Robocopter's posts Today scream newbscum (fluffposts like this; rolling with every accusation anyone made but sticking to a Seacore vote; great immediate reaction to the EB heal; parroting previously made points). Maybe we have it wrong?

Socrates has softclaimed an exotic power role and has made three posts onsite this week, suggesting that he's being flaketastic. Maybe he's not the best lynch, although I like the people on his wagon.

I'll think about it.

[Vi]

Socrates has softclaimed an exotic power role and has made three posts onsite this week, suggesting that he's being flaketastic. Maybe he's not the best lynch, although I like the people on his wagon.

I missed this, but then again my strongest NK aspect as scum is being able to read who will react what way to the lynch the following day. Im absolutely horrible at finding PR tells.

You

do

have less awkward ways of saying things, right? <.<

The thing is, I would also consider my own role rare and weird, so I would not be surprised to see this kind of role in the game.

On the other hand, this is the only game Socrates is in atm (the other one finished at the beginning of the week) so he

could

be lurking. :\ And it doesn't sound like a necessarily beneficial claim.

My next pick would have to be the VussVudio wagon. Fun fact:

Why would they wait until Vi and Llama's vote to jump on me if they found me scummy way before that?(Like, D1 I think.) Afraid of getting attention?

But VV was the

first

person hp[leaves] accused upon replacing in D1.

I'll come to a conclusion in the morning, I hope.

---

Hey I'm willing to give up my colorful metallic unicorn body for the purpose of letting the town to win. That is my win condition, to get rid of the evil among us. But because there would be to much WIFOM I don't think we ough do that. Deciding to kill a claimed VT for deadline purposes seems to wild, I doubt any info would come of it.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

[Vi]

Meh.

VV and Seacore don't seem like scum together, and Seacore seems a bit scummier even without farside's softclaim. If it can confirm her it'd be well worth the lynch.

Decent reasoning.

I think both of Socrates and VasudeVa are good lynches, but VasudeVa is probably better and safer. (If VV flips scum I would peg Socrates.)

If it came down to Seacore at deadline I might swap, per the above quote.

Unsee: Socrates

See: VasudeVa

(L-2)

[Vi]

Anything wrong with what I'm pointing out that is stopping you guys from lynching hp[scum]? The vote stays for now, in case any of you start listening to reason. Although, with the deadline, I'll be here later in case I need to change votes.

(...)

Be back later.

Well, this is about an hour away from the original deadline, and he's not back.

Let's go ahead and do this.

This thread needs more Ellibereth.

[Vi]

Hai Vi.
Still wondering on why Dram has no mentions of Soc.
Want to wait for Vas's claim first before judgment, gut feeling right now is still town.

Soc/Soc's replacement should also claim in one of their next posts.

I would like to believe that someone who promised a post at a later time and didn't show up when the tide turned against them is scum.

Meanwhile, I do have a question for you. Why did you choose that one wagon to pin Socrates down on?

[Vi]

I would like to believe that someone who promised a post at a later time and didn't show up when the tide turned against them is scum.

Meanwhile, I do have a question for you. Why did you choose that one wagon to pin Socrates down on?

When I just started playing I did that as town.
Got the wagon from the list of L-1/L-2/Lynch wagons from one of my earlier posts:

Ani LYNCH wagon: Vas, llama, Vi, Robo, Soc, Seacore, farside
Badger L-1 wagon: Vi, farside, llama, me, Vas, hp
Robo L-1 wagon: Tony/Soc, Seacore, Badger dram, llama, vi
Robo L-1 wagon: Me, Badger, Llama, farside, tony, seacore
Ani L-2 wagon - me, dram, farside, llama, vi

And just as VasudeVa is not "just started playing"...

I didn't ask for you to post the wagons. I asked why you chose that one in particular.

[Vi]

He isn't? I was in his first newbie game, did time really fly that fast..

I don't think any of the other ones have everyone except one person eliminated left.

Using your standards for clearing people (take out Vi, you, farside, Seacore, LlamaFluff), the ani L-2 wagon does (leaving dramonic) and the Badger L-1 does if you take hp[leaves] out (leaving VasudeVa). dramonic was by himself even at the beginning of the Day.

I'll throw in that the overexaggerated play like what VV has been doing recently is something I saw used (against me ) to considerable effect by RedCoyote-scum in his first game on this site.

I'll also throw in that a Townie who acts scummy deserves their lynch, obv obv.

I'll also also throw in that I have no idea where your change in opinion came from on VV.

Still think at least one of VAS/HP is scum.

Believe hp right now, though wavering. Would say let's lynch Vas due to the VA earlier EXCEPT something is making me doubt farside read.

Overall, even with whatever independent scummy things Vas has done, overall my feel on him is still town. Normally I'd just say he's town but I misread him in a similar fashion in our last game...

Want to wait for Vas's claim first before judgment, gut feeling right now is still town.

I'll also also also throw in that if Robocopter is scum, VasudeVa is incredilikely to be scum with him between "he already has enough pressure" and "I still want a policy lynch on him" and blatantly deflecting his lynch D1 to ani (on grounds of there being at least two scum on it, when he hasn't voted any of them Today and has only accused Seacore, who had been on it long before it became a deadline option and was at the tail end of his suspects D1).

[Vi]

Doubleposting to say that

blatantly deflecting his lynch D1 to ani (on grounds of there being at least two scum on it, when he hasn't voted any of them Today and has only accused Seacore, who had been on it long before it became a deadline option and was at the tail end of his suspects D1).

is actually a nice point if you forgive my demonstration of English as my first language. >.>

VV's suspects at the time of the deflection were "TM-Soc/Dram/Possibly Seacore". In his next post he jumps over TonyMontana for Seacore.

[Vi]

I was wondering when the Robot Pony would show up again. Here I thought it was Seacore.

I'll grant that your breadcrumbs came well before ElectricBadger's claim. You didn't make any mention of the E-Badger claim, which I suppose I could understand under the circumstances. But the important thing is that the (kind of weak) crumbs came well in advance of the Watcher claim.

Also, I'm not in agreement that a Beloved Princess is unbalanced in this game. We've been able to confirm (or what would pass as confirmation in an ordinary game) myself, E-Badger, and now you through the Badger's claim. This doesn't even get into the people considered innocent through scumhunting. And

someone

here can stop poison.~ A B. Princess actually sounds pretty fair.

Well, you're not scum unless ElectricBadger is, and if E-Badger is scum the mod gave him one of the top three safeclaims I've ever seen, heard of, or imagined.

Unsee: VasudeVa

wooo playing the setup!
I guess that leaves Seacore and (to a lesser extent) Socrates...

[Vi]

36 hours until deadline. Possibly more if Socrates is not replaced.

The only issue I have with massclaim at this point is that nobody seems to be against it, which makes me wonder if it's going to be

that

easy.

[Vi]

I would like for Ellibereth to go sometime early tbqh.

Addendum to previous post: We also have 24 hours of Twilight.
Since there's pretty much a pool of one person who's going to eat poison tonight, I'm not particularly against continuing the massclaim during Twilight.

[Vi]

farside... scum have a kill... it's the poison... like I've been saying all Day... just because it doesn't resolve immediately doesn't mean it doesn't kill...

[Vi]

Seacore - do you think Robocopter is scum? (Slightly slow on the uptake, granted, but...)
Could you elaborate on the flavor behind your role?

Also, I'm always Town.~

[Vi]

Wait.

Fluffy. Could you claim like everyone else has?

Unrelated, but I'm pretty sure at least one of the VT claims are scum.

[Vi]

Wait.

Fluffy. Could you claim like everyone else has?

Unrelated, but I'm pretty sure at least one of the VT claims are scum.

Agreed.
Also I just confirmed with the mod that my ability did activate but unless there is another RB in the game I don't see how my ability didn't go through

It's true that your claim contradicts Seacore's.
But there's an armful of things about LlamaFluff's claim that aren't making sense, at least not the way he's playing his role.

L-Fluff, could you tell me "whatever your role does

[that]

is passive"? Without your extensions for a moment.

[Vi]

L-Fluff, could you tell me "whatever your role does

[that]

is passive"? Without your extensions for a moment.

Nothing. As far as I know I could be VT with no colors. I just dont think thats the case.

...
1) "Bad Robot Unicorns"?
2) I'll grant one thing that caught my eye. You mentioned the possibility of a scum searching role during the first Twilight. Then why haven't you mentioned that again since Seacore's claim?
3) I'll also mention what a Miller claim does in this game. Given the Win Condition in the first post, it

guarantees

that you will not get NKd for any reason.

---

At first I thought Seacore's claim was good for a Searcher of some kind, but it makes more sense for a Cop of some kind.

ReaperCharlie can claim posthaste. No need to read the thread - just do it. No hammer until then.

[Vi]

Please get Seacore off L-1.

[Vi]

Hmm...

Right now I'd like to focus on ReaperCharlie. We need a claim. The longer we wait for it, the more likely I'm going to call for him to be the deadline lynch. (yes, over Seacore)

I'll pave the wagon.

See: ReaperCharlie

(L-4)

[Vi]

Seacore is probTown. farside is slightly less probTown but nonetheless.

This is the first time in a while I've seen someone replace into a game without a "hi" post, let alone an "I'm here give me a moment" post 36 hours to deadline.

[Vi]

I swear Vi if Seacore turns out to be scum and all your whatever reads on him are town lead to his escape I'm going to demand that you return your paragon of mafia hunters back to the award area.

I'm serious.

You're not the first person to say that. But really, consider this.
*You softclaim that you blocked Seacore, and as a result, there was no second kill.
*While the second kill was disputed, nobody ever said you DIDN'T block Seacore.
*Seacore claims a power role

with results from the Night you blocked him

.

Under the circumstances, Scumcore would most likely claim V. Townie. He couldn't claim to be a blocked information role because people would immediately ask "why didn't you say so sooner?".

In addition, Seacore's (feeble) attempt to counterclaim VasudeVa could have been done more safely using ani's flip (Robot Changeling Unicorn). Scumcore would more likely assume that his falseclaim was wrong and not attempt to use it as proof.

Either this is a more daring falseclaim than one would expect from someone who has "never been scum" - or a number of other people - or he's not lying.

I fully (or at least mostly) understand the concept of Seacore being scummy, but unfortunately scummy is not equal to scum as often as I'd like; this is where playing the setup comes in.

---

If you have no questions, please vote ReaperCharlie (to L-1). He was online with free time previously; he's lurking.

If you do have questions, I'm all about keeping my white elephant award, so ask them.

[Vi]

I don't think anyone has tried to discredit you Today except VasudeVa, Robocopter, and myself... Nor has anyone "eaten up" Seacore's claim save myself...

Come to think of it, where is VasudeVa?

Anyway there are a couple of easy ways to tell if you stopped a kill, and you don't even have to die for them.

[Vi]

Charlie's still here; still lurking~

[Vi]

Vi: Who do you think is scum? All I see you doing is switching votes from one to another. Which of the VT claims to you find the most questionable?

Well, in case it's not blatantly obvious, ReaperCharlie (hiiiii!~)

Most likely at least one of the V. Townie claims is false, and considering that they're being made by dramonic, Robocopter, and Ellibereth it's honestly kind of difficult to say which.
But I wouldn't even bother with the power roles until we find scum in the V. Townies, at least not Tomorrow.

Robocopter was the one who followed me when I accused you saying "You mean to tell me farside

forgot

the sample Role PM?".

----

Actually, let me take that back. I'm curious...

@Seacore

, could you elaborate on your claim? There's a lot that one would think should be there, but isn't.

[Vi]

EDIT: I'm skimming too much. <.<
But I would like to know more about Seacore's flavor.

[Vi]

Seacore is probTown. farside is slightly less probTown but nonetheless.

They posted contradictory claims and both are town? I'm not understanding what scenario you see happened.

Most likely a Redirect or a Roleblock on farside.

I think allowing ReaperCharlie - who circumstances would point to as both onsite and knowing that he needs to slip by right now - to lurk through the end of the Day would be quite the mistake.

[Vi]

Maybe Reap hasn't picked up his Pm or doesn't know he got the job!

Unlikely.

You have to ASK to replace in, for one. There's no way he magically wound up in this game (flavor aside~). You could easily ask the mod to verify if he got his Role PM, of course.

Second, a few people (Ellibereth being one of them) saw RC onsite earlier and called out to him. You get a pop-up by default whenever you get a new PM, so it's not like it's easy to miss once you're onsite.

Third, you can easily verify from the wiki that ReaperCharlie has unmistakably been editing his myriad of pages on the wiki (before and after he was called to in this thread), but since he received his Role PM he has logged off and is editing under his pseudononymous IP address (hence my claim that he knows he needs to slip by right now).

Fourth, even assuming that RC has been pressed for time (see previous point) and hasn't been able to read the thread much, the big bold CLAIM NOW banners and the people who have been steadily voting him for nonparticipation are very easy to follow (and even easier to acknowledge). Or to quote the other Paragon of Mafia Hunters - paraphrasing a Role PM takes seconds; coming up with a fakeclaim can take a lifetime. Any given Townie would at least come in and say something to the effect of DON'T LYNCH ME, although granted we're not giving him that option.

What excuse is left?

[Vi]

@Vi,

I've said pretty much everything, flavour and mechincwise that's in my PM, do you have any specific questions?

Could you go over the flavor related to the active ability?

[Vi]

Vi: Seacore did that already.

I wanted to see if there was more than what he posted before. I have a little more flavor than what he said before and now

making me the winner!

.

Whichever.

[Vi]

And still no sign of interest beyond posting to his wiki page that he has replaced in.

Less than 24 hours to wait. At this point we're leaning toward "Claim

and

die".

Fun fact: I just got out of a game where scum replacing in near deadline chose not to say anything in hopes of dodging the lynch.