Newbie 934 - Game Over!

[Shadsticle]

Unvote

I kinda had a feeling Robo had over-stretched himself with games, as he really didn't seem bothered to keep up with the threads and admitted as much. I guess now I can judge a little better if I was getting scummy reads or if I was just being a grumpy bastard. I thought there was plenty of evidence against Robo's slot buuuuttt... the fact he left and admitted he was not giving the game due attention, its more possible he was just skimming the thread as a disinterested townie.

In answer to who my top suspects are, I'll be watching Robo's slot (welcome LC), and I'm gonna

vote: Coach Travis

(I'm not sure if he seems to be giving up on the game, regardless if he was scum or town, if not his last post would be a good excuse for coasting/active lurking, and his posts have seemed fairly scummy from the early multipost defenses to the long fence-sits, kinda scant on content, etc.).

I'll be looking back through the thread as one does, I want to see if I can define what I feel is scummy about Charlies posts - his laid back posting style has already been discussed if my slightly leaky memory of the thread is correct, it could be a clash of posting/thinking styles, or he could have scummier motives.

Deer, how did you feel replacing into this game?

[Deer]

Shad, what makes you think robo was a skimming townie vs. CT, who has kept up about the same activity level?

And it wasn't a hard game to replace into - only like 10-11 pages so not a lot of reading and analyzing to do. LC should be done bynow.

[Coach Travis]

Everything I've done this game can be explained off by the fact that I'm a confused newb(as stated previously, my prior experience hardly counts, it was that bad). At this point I won't make a big defense against an impending lynch:I'm not disinterested in the game, but if confirming that I'm a townie is more helpful than I can ever be, so be it. I want the town to win regardless, so I don't care if I have to be the first to go.

I still need to see more from LC, but at this point it can go both ways:I'm still somewhat suspicious of Robo's actions, but going through again I can kinda see how he was just overwhelmed with all the games he was in, and was maybe a bit unfocused on this one. His unvote certainly isn't as scummy as Super makes it sound, especially when he unvotes while still finding him scummy, something that's more suspicious. Though I would still like an explanation from LC of why he feels Super's vote was "forced".

I've kinda switched between finding Super suspicious and thinking he's just an excited newb, but some of his recent posts do lean back towards the former. Still not ready to make a vote at this time, but I'll make sure to do so within the next few days, if I'm not gone already.

[mb53]

his laid back posting style has already been discussed if my slightly leaky memory of the thread is correct, it could be a clash of posting/thinking styles, or he could have scummier motives.

See post 267.
I think that CT's latest post was very good. I'll try to make another analysis sometime soon, but right now my computer is broken (I'm using one that I don't own right now). So if I don't post for like 2-3 days, don't worry, I'll get on ASAP.

[Shadsticle]

Shad, what makes you think robo was a skimming townie vs. CT, who has kept up about the same activity level?

Go look at my first analysis of Robo in ISO, and knock off things in the conclusion that could be explained or at least have serious doubt thrown over them by taking into account the player is barely reading the thread. Not reading the thread and missing questions at him seems less scummy now, though still very annoying of course.

Coach Travis has (just) passed out Robo's slot for scumminess with his repeated long fencesits, early defences, and recent sorta hopeless '/thread'-ish comments. His cases on people seem to form at a glacial pace and I'm hoping when he finally does vote he has a lot of good, fresh observations to make, because he's certainly been analyzing for a loooong time...

And it wasn't a hard game to replace into - only like 10-11 pages so not a lot of reading and analyzing to do. LC should be done bynow.

Wasn't the question though, I asked how you felt joining into this game. Excited? Eager?

See post 267

Hey, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

1. Voting Super without much any reasoning of his own.
2. His overall randomness (not exactly a scum tell, just play style. But if you guys can use robo's play style as a reason why can't I? Wink )
3. Lack of content.
4. Lack of a better person I can target

Like Charlie said, your first and third reasons are good, your second and fourth aren't. I explained carefully where I saw scummy motives in Robo's play, and that I was NOT voting him because his playstyle annoyed me, even though I did say I felt it was anti-town (not reading the thread IS anti-town, but not necessarily scummy).

For what its worth, Charlie's playstyle is less annoying, as he does seem to be at least keeping up with the thread and not relying on people to explain everything or ask him questions over and over to get answers when a simple re-read should suffice. I do get odd vibes though and like I said, will be looking closer. I do find as much in his recent posts that I like as dislike, so I guess it's closer to approaching a null read since he started posting more.

I think that CT's latest post was very good.

I guess this is a typo and CT = Charlie, otherwise can you point out what recent post CT made that you thought was good, cheers.

[ElectricBadger]

Vote Count:

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

(1) Super Smash Bros. Fan: Deer
(3) Coach Travis: mb53, Charlie, Shadsticle

(5) Not Voting: Coach Travis, LordChronos, Matteh, Nachomamma8, Super Smash Bros. Fan

Day One ends Midnight PST, April 19th.

[Nachomamma8]

I want the town to win regardless, so I don't care if I have to be the first to go.

How will your death help the town win?

Shadsicle, what don't you like about Charlie's recent posting?

Vote: LordChronos

The 2-day grace period is over. We need thoughts from you, ASAP.

[Shadsticle]

Shads

t

icle, what don't you like about Charlie's recent posting?

Well, the posting style is the same as earlier, but the posts themselves are much better. I'm thinking maybe it was just the post style and lack of content combo that I didn't like earlier. His recent posts have been pretty positive, I acknowledge what I 'didn't like' about him is mostly fixed.

[mb53]

Cool, I got my internet working faster than expected.

I guess this is a typo and CT = Charlie, otherwise can you point out what recent post CT made that you thought was good, cheers.

No typo there, although Charlies latest posts

have

been good. I guess I'll pick apart why I thought this post was good:

Everything I've done this game can be explained off by the fact that I'm a confused newb(as stated previously, my prior experience hardly counts, it was that bad). At this point I won't make a big defense against an impending lynch:I'm not disinterested in the game, but if confirming that I'm a townie is more helpful than I can ever be, so be it. I want the town to win regardless, so I don't care if I have to be the first to go.

I still need to see more from LC, but at this point it can go both ways:I'm still somewhat suspicious of Robo's actions, but going through again I can kinda see how he was just overwhelmed with all the games he was in, and was maybe a bit unfocused on this one. His unvote certainly isn't as scummy as Super makes it sound, especially when he unvotes while still finding him scummy, something that's more suspicious. Though I would still like an explanation from LC of why he feels Super's vote was "forced".

I've kinda switched between finding Super suspicious and thinking he's just an excited newb, but some of his recent posts do lean back towards the former. Still not ready to make a vote at this time, but I'll make sure to do so within the next few days, if I'm not gone already.

All off this post is true. His actions

can

be explained by newbyness. His point about willing to die for town makes me think him of more town by

just a sliver

. Scum could easily say this without it being a risk. Also, CT actually is attempting scum-hunting here (which I notice Matteh has been lacking lately. Will address this later this post), and on

two

people! I feel confident that this is the most town post he has made.

Matteh

Start off slow, made a few great posts, and then goes back down. I see this posting style as scummy. He isn't doing a whole lot, just gliding by and trying to stay out of my scum-o-meter with a few big posts.
Overall: Not liking very much.

Coach Travis

My other arguments still somewhat stand, but I think got weakened after the last post. I'm not quite sure enough to keep my vote on him.
Overall:

Unvote

Just so it is seen =P

Shadsticle

Has been constantly contributing/scum hunting, asking good questions, etc.
Overall: Town so far.

Charlie

Well, there is those 4 points that I made on him earlier, they sort of apply, but not as much now. Like CT, his latest posts have been much better.
Overall: Could go either way.

Nacho

Most pro-town player here.
Overall: I will freak out if you are scum.

Deer

Well, I thought that Eklipse looked good, and combined with your posts, I think that
Overall: Town

Lord Chronos

I can't be sure yet. Robo's slight scummyness, could be explained with the reason he replaced out.
Overall: Need more posts.

Super

He has kept on switching from scum to town for me. Gah, I can't decide with him yet.
Overall: Could easily go either way.

Not enough yet to vote on Matteh, but I will be watching him, Super, CT, LC, and charlie veeerrryy closely. Just an FYI, I was tired writing this, so I might correct my thinking's on it tomorrow

[LordChronos]

Okay, sorry for not posting earlier.

My top suspects right now are SSBF and CT. SSBFfor his earlier game play, (e.g. constant promising to make an informed vote, switching targets so often, attacking lurkers simply for lurking), his vote on Robo (where he talked about Robo's hypocrisy but didn't reference examples, and which was an L-2 vote for contradictions that he didn't point out and for not paying enough attention, which is not a reason to lynch someone), and finally for his attack on Robo for unvoting SSBF after getting a townie feel from him. Horrible argument here.

Also, see his latest reply about this issue:

To be honest, I thought it wasn't really necessary to give out any reasons, especially since I've already let other people know why I voted Robocopter87.

This not only fails to answer my question of why he only explained his reasoning for disliking Robo's unvote because it was based on gut when pressed on it, but also says, "I don't think it is necessary to give out reasons about a new event concerning my suspect because others know why I voted them". Which is ridiculous.

@CT

Trying to write off all of your poor play thus far as being due to the fact that you are new is scummy. Scum tries to avoid responsibility for their actions, which is what this are doing.

[Charlie]

that parenthesised 3 is the best part of this thread. i'm kidding, but it did make me laugh. i'll accept your answers to my questions for now because you seem to have a hidden (but probably town) motive for posting as you are.

I'm glad to bring a smile to someone's face. I think if my role was jester, I'll make tons of jokes. Do you know what a jester is? You won't find one in newbie games, but there are in some of the other non-newbie games. Their role is to get lynched. I wonder why don't jesters make jokes when they are.

LordC!

You only answered "who are your top suspects right now" and not "who are your top three (3) suspects right now". You've picked and choosed which question to answer. Why is that hmm?

Aslo: what do you think of your predecessor?

[Charlie]

EBWOP: Oh heck I meant also not aslo.

And Shadsticle, why did you bold the t in your latest post? Did you just drop some breadcrumbs that you are

t

ownie?

[LordChronos]

@Charlie

That is largely because I don't have a well-defined suspicion for a third person right now. I think Robo was a slightly erratic townie who wasn't paying enough attention to this game.

If you see something you think is a breadcrumb, do the town a favor and be quiet about it please. The reasoning for this is the same as why we don't do rolefishing.

It seems I forgot to put my money where my mouth is in my last post, so

Vote : Super Smash Bros. Fan

[Charlie]

*facepalm*
Did you even read my post? How does one breadcrumb as a townie?

[Charlie]

EBWOP:
And if you really paid attention, your statement should be directed at Matteh for this:

<snip>...i'll accept your answers to my questions for now because you seem to have a hidden (but probably town) motive for posting as you are.

Selectivism, LordChronos. Or are you not paying attention?

[LordChronos]

Charlie:

You asked if that was a breadcrumb for being a townie. I responded by saying don't point out breadcrumbs. That seems to follow to me. I don't know why you would breadcrumb as a townie, but the point stands. Why does that mean I didn't read your post.

That quote from Matteh has nothing to do with breadcrumbing, why bring it up?

[mb53]

Oh, I saw that quote too, I meant to include it in my last post. I do not like that he makes it sound like he might have a power role by his posting style (which honestly, I don't see). And it is nonsense to say shad is breadcrumbing. He bolded the T because nacho left it out when he spelled his name.

[Matteh]

My quote was not intended to indicate a power role - i asked a question, he answered it, i (at least temporarily) accepted his answers.

[LordChronos]

Then why put in the part about the hidden motive? It doesn't make sense for you to do that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'll be doing an further analysis on Coach Travis. I'll be determining if a post is null, townie, or scummy.

ISO 0:

Answers questions.

Null read

ISO 1:

Answers questions.

Null read

ISO 2:

Said that he likes both RQS and RVS, but prefers RVS.

Null read

ISO 3:

Wants to know how to quote, said that it's strange that he gets scummy vibes from other people, and doesn't see the point of RVS.

Slightly scummy read

ISO 4:

Made some grammar errors.

Null read

ISO 5:

Explains why he was originally confused about what RQS and RVS abbreviation means.

Null read

ISO 6:

Said he always seem to come across scummy and that it annoys him.

Slightly scummy read

ISO 7:

Said he would be looking out for Charlie more and he was concern about people adding RV to a person.

Null read

ISO 8:

Doesn't like the Eklipse bandwagon.

Slightly Town read

ISO 9:

Explains his nervousness for the game and give reasons for voting me.

Town read

ISO 10:

Explains he does not like RV bandwagons, answers Nacho's question, and wants more content from Matteh.

Null read

ISO 11:

Said Matteh has not contributed much at that point and gives reasons why.

Slightly scummy, especially since he wasn't being that helpful at the time

ISO 12:

Wanted to get more of Matteh's attention and did an quick analysis on everyone.

Town read

ISO 13:

Due to Matteh promising his big post, so he doesn't consider him scummy, not convinced that me or Robocopter87 (Now LordChronos) are scums, and won't vote until he is absolutely serious.

Null, leaning towards scummy as you shouldn't save votes until the end. It's okay to vote if you think they are the most scummy person now and you give good reasons why

ISO 14:

Wants to be confident before voting, plus he's still considering Charlie somewhat scummy due to lack of activity.

Scummy read, mainly due to him repeating himself

ISO 15:

Answers both my questions:

Slightly townie read

ISO 16:

Said he random voted due to he saying that there wasn't a lot of serious discussion during the time he voted, and said I was parroting.

Slightly scummy read, due to him saying he random voted, even thought an informed vote has already been made

ISO 17:

Said he's fairly close to voting Robocopter87, but doesn't want to do it quite yet because he doesn't want to risk a quick lynch.

Slightly scummy read

ISO 18:

Answers Nachomamma8's question and list who is most to least scummy.

Slightly town read

ISO 19:

Saying that he's not flip-flopping, but that you shouldn't just target one person throughout the game. Then a little fluff.

Scummy read, since he contradicts himself earlier in the game when he said that he wouldn't vote until he was absolutely certain that he found an scum

ISO 20:

Praises Deer, but saying he hasn't found much to talk about, that he can't make a good scum-hunter, and that he doesn't know what to do.

Scummy read

ISO 21:

Said he's way too indecisive and clueless.

Scummy read

ISO 22:

Doesn't want to quit or are bored of the game. Also said he's interested on what LordChronos had to say.

Null read

ISO 23:

Saying that he's an confused newbie. Wants more from LordChronos and somewhat suspicious of him due to Robocopter87's action.

Also trying to decided between me being suspicious and me being an excited newbie.

Slightly town read

Overall, I'm not exactly convinced that Coach Travis is scum, but he is acting a little scummy in my eyes. Some of his posts have been good, but not so much. I'm not going to be placing a vote on Coach Travis quite yet since I don't find him that scummy yet, but I will be watching him closely.

I'd also like to ask you guys a question.

In this late in the game, who do you think are the potential scum teams and why? This questions goes towards everyone.

[LordChronos]

@SSBF

This is early in the game, not late. It really is fairly pointless to speculate on scumteams Day 1 with no flips, no interactions between players with known alignments, fewer votes to analyze, etc.

You had a lot of town read comments in your ISO. Why do the scummy posts outweight these town ones?

[Deer]

I think there's good ISO reads and bad ones, and Super just made a bad one. That last post looked like it had a lot of content, but really could have been written as "I read CT in ISO, and I'm not sure what I think. I'll be keeping my eye on him." Seriously, 4/5 of that post was summarizing his posts, and saying "scummy read" does really nothing. It's a perfect example of looking like you're scumhunting, but doing very little.

And you haven't said anything about my case on you.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@LordChronos:

This is early in the game, not late. It really is fairly pointless to speculate on scumteams Day 1 with no flips, no interactions between players with known alignments, fewer votes to analyze, etc.

Now it is early in the game, but we should also note that we have gather a lot of evidences regarding who could be scums. Basically, you've already done there, where you called me and Coach Travis your top two lynch candidates.

You had a lot of town read comments in your ISO. Why do the scummy posts outweight these town ones?

As you pointed out, I have made a lot of mistakes, especially early in this game. I've been trying to learn from those mistakes and apply my experience to this game so I can try to improve myself. This explains why you came to that conclusion.

@Deer: Back when you voted me, I really don't think you should have voted me immediately based off that one post you quoted. You should have waited until I made a few more posts that you would consider scummy on me before coming to an conclusion that I could be scum.

And regarding the unvote, I'll explain why I didn't like it.

Robocopter87 made a case on me after I explained that there was a case on me. I voted on him after he kept saying it was a bad idea to be making a bandwagon on me and he did like an OMGUS vote on me. Then we got into an argument and while in it, he did an jawdropping thing that I seriously did not expect to happen anytime soon and unvoted

right in the middle of the argument

.

This was also based off solely of his gut feeling that we were town and nothing else. The post before, he was certain that I was scum and in that post, he said I was town. It is nice that he said that, but didn't really give good reasons for unvoting me. Had he said that he was actually liking how I was playing, me being helpful, you know, that sort of thing, I would have felt great.

And I wasn't the only person who thought the unvote was unecessary.

[LordChronos]

@SSBF

There is a difference between listing the people you find scummiest and trying to figure out who scumteams are.

I was referring to your ISO of Coach Travis, not to your posts.

There are a few problems with your argument about the unvote. First, your argument is basically "He didn't say how great I was before he unvoted me, he must be scum". This is a silly argument. Second, generally gut reads are hard to articulate, so it isn't surprising that robo didn't give a reason for the unvote other than gut. Third, it wasn't in the middle of your argument, it was at the end of your argument.

@Deer: Back when you voted me, I really don't think you should have voted me immediately based off that one post you quoted. You should have waited until I made a few more posts that you would consider scummy on me before coming to an conclusion that I could be scum.

Why should Deer have waited to vote you? You had already done scummy things, so the argument you already used is invalid. You were in no danger of a lynch, so that can't be it.

I voted on him after he kept saying it was a bad idea to be making a bandwagon on me and he did like an OMGUS vote on me.

Did you vote robo because he kept saying it was a bad idea to bandwagon you?

[Deer]

You had already done scummy things, so the argument you already used is invalid.

That answers your question, Super. Nothing to say about my ISO read comments? I thought that post was extremely scummy.