Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Sando]

Wait, top 5, my bad, point still stands.

[Ojanen]

This is a shameful anti-prod post. I'll be here and catching up tomorrow, having a tough week.

[curiouskarmadog]

hoping to post on Friday..

things to do:

1.) explain why Sando is a better wagon...(say Sando, any reason you are pulling the quote with the people I found scummy, but not addressing my post where PZ said "if he was a vig he would off you numerous times?"....ahhhh, maybe that is because PZ has been killed you and want that to go away? Is there ANY reason you keep saying that you are reading me in ISO when you arent? Now, I have mentioned why I felt you were scummy twice (before voting you), I havent posted that much, so if you read me in ISO like you are claiming..it shouldnt be hard to find. Also you never answered the question.."so what?"

1.b) explain to Sando why I am voting him because he has a problem reading. (will give you a hint...my post 10 my post 29)....

2.) Explain to javert why PZ's post about "those who dont post very much are suspect" was a bad post...(though it is moot now, but I understand why he wants it).

3.) Review what happened between previous quoted votes counts.

[curiouskarmadog]

I see what you're talking about, CKD, but I still think that Pom is the better lynch today. I see no benefit to keeping her alive besides a shitton of WIFOM and no one has convinced me otherwise.

lets say she is telling the truth..and we postpone her lynch in two days..

lets says she has hid behind 2 additional people and lived

lets says after her lynch, we discover she was in fact a hider and telling the truth.

that gives us a total of 3 additional confirmed people.

I am not saying, I dont want to lynch her...I am saying I want to wait.

if she is a hider..the only way her information will be any good to us is if she dies at one point or is without a doubt confirmed. also, I am sure that there are roles out there, that might be able to see if she is telling the truth...why not let them do their job?

but to off a potential asset, is a bad idea.

I had a town read on you, but dont understand why you dont see a benefit to this.

[curiouskarmadog]

also, I have a feeling I am freaking scum out right about now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

O.K. listen up. This is important.

What if Pom is scum and has a "WEAK ABILITY: NK A PLAYER, STRONG ABILITY: SUICIDE AND NK 2 PLAYERS" type role? Then letting her survive one night will FUCK us.

Do you understand?

Lynch pom.

[Pomegranate]

Um, WTH?

Where did that come from?

[Sando]

Glad you could finally actually point out where you found me scummy. That wasn't so hard, was it.

So I killed a vig to stop him killing me? Yeah that achieves a lot if I were scum, the kill totally wouldn't go through anyway... The entire premise of your argument is faulty.

So thinking over-reacting is scummy, is scummy. Yeah righto. I told you at the time I thought you were wrong, still do. I'm not going to answer it again, we simply disagree, if you think my scumhunting is scummy in this regard, nothing I can do about it.

[Sando]

What made you change from <100 posts ago where I wasn't one of your top 5 suspects btw?

[curiouskarmadog]

no time for a big post.....Pom, when did you decide you were going to hide behind farside?

[farside22]

Pom: Will you ever respond to the case I had on you? You're continuing to ignore it and not respond doesn't help me in the least.
ABR: Can I have some wine with that cheese please?

I have this gut feeling that Pom might be telling the truth. It's based more on the votes yesterday on her and people trying to get someone lynched over bv310. I'm going to show you what I'm talking about later today when I have longer then 5 minutes to sit down.

[Jahudo]

3.) Review what happened between previous quoted votes counts.

My Nick case is partially in those vote counts you quoted. I think he was using Richard's vote switch to BV as rationale for saying that momentum was swinging away from the Richard wagon, which was his reasoning for switching wagons himself.

-------------

@CKD: did you respond to Sando's Post 432 somewhere? That's where he explains why he thinks over-reaction is scummy.

@Sando: are there instances when over-reaction is not scummy?

This speculation is sound in theory, but I'm not sure it only points to Sando.

Well, anyone could have thought PZ was the vig. I don’t think that he was offed because he was the vig. As scum, if I can pin point a vig I would keep him around, especially if he is barking up the wrong tree in the game. A vig with a bad scumdar, is an asset to scum. The fact that he was offed, makes me think he was working the right tree. At the end, he was really pointing a finger at Pom..though I don’t think I would rule out Sando.

Zito was going after lurkers early, and his threat to vig Sando felt like it was because Sando was a lurker. Or as PZ called him, "follower. classic blend into the crowd stuff".

When he first said he'd want to vig Sando, Sando had only made 3 posts. And Zito agreed with his reads at that point (Anon, Richard). After a while he stopped saying he'd vig Sando, so I don't think scum-Sando would be more worried than other lurkers or people Zito suspected near the end of the day (Pom, Richard).

So I can see where Sando was still on Zito's hit list, but Sando doesn't look like a clear-cut favorite for night 1. And that goes back into thinking that scum want a vig hitting townies for as long as they think a vig will hit townies.

...which points back to Pom. Writing this post has made me want to lynch pom again. what to do, what to do...

[Patrick]

Votecount

Pomegranate (6) -- RichardGHP, Seraphim, Espeonage, Anon, Amished, Albert B. Rampage
Porochaz (1) -- Javert
Espeonage (2) -- Pomegranate, Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Ojanen, Jahudo
Sando (1) -- curiouskarmadog
Faraday (1) -- dybeck

Not voting: farside22, Faraday, boberz, NickF227, Porochaz
18 alive, 10 to lynch.

Deadline: 1st of May

[curiouskarmadog]

well shit, putting together my post for tomorrow...thought that if I compared the below vote count (the count where richard passed BV for the lynch leader) to the current (see above) that it would be obvious the scum is pushing the Pom lynch

Votecount

RichardGHP (7) -- Porochaz, Faraday, bv310, NickF227, Pomegranate, boberz, Albert B. Rampage
bv310 (6) -- Papa Zito, Seraphim, Espeonage, farside22, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP
Espeonage (1) -- Ojanen
dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Jahudo, Anon
Porochaz (1) -- Javert
Seraphim (1) -- Amished
boberz (1) -- dybeck

Not voting: Nobody
20 alive, 11 to lynch.

Deadline: April 8th, 11 pm GMT.

with the exception of ABR, no one that was on this VC that pushed the richard lynch head of bv for yesterday's lynch. Also another strike against Pom is the fact that he was on the Richard lynch over the BV lynch...now this is just speculation, because Rich could be scum as well (but I doubt it)...but I thought I should put this out there as well, since a VC was just posted.

[curiouskarmadog]

also jahudo, I saw the post...think it was fluff....in so many of my games I have been lynched or close to lynched because I "over react", am "over defensive", or "too aggressive"...later, I find that it was scum, really pushing those arguements.....

...though it should be noted, I have seen town push the arguement as well....but I REALLy have seen scum lean on the arguement and base entire cases around it. it rubs me wrong EVERYTIME I see it.

[boberz]

I am not really sure where this game is going, I feel slightly out of it. My own fault entirely but it means that I am in no position to launch an attack or find something new yet.

I am beginning to like ABR more and understand what he is doing I think.

I liked Jahudo latest post it seemed like a real attempt to help town. But the last sentence feels a bit off. As if fishing to see whether that lynch is possible even though he has moved away from it.

[Sando]

@Sando: are there instances when over-reaction is not scummy?

Yes, but they're pretty rare. It doesn't always come from scum, but I pretty much always give the person scum-points for it. Combine it with abject refusal to scum-hunt, yes I think that person is very scummy. But no scum-tell always comes from scum.

[Espeonage]

I have never really settled into this game have I?
Ok I am happy with my vote. I don't think there is anyone else on the same level of scummy as Pom is at right now.

ABR raises a good point which only furthur cements my position on the matter.

[Pomegranate]

My Pom views:

Pom's vote here
Which calls out Anon and bv but votes for richard for what reason exactly?
Pom's reason's fleshed out here and how is this more scummy then bv exactly?
this is not true this in fact was when bv started getting the heat but richard still had more votes.
Pom following herebuddy and following
Pom buddying here

Based also on Pom's vote on richard I could see Pom/bv310 scum team even more now.

I called out bv because there was more about him to mention; I didn't like Richard's attitude to the game, or the way he was playing it, and especially his reaction to the votes on him, but there was less to explain, because it was fairly self-evident. (Well, in retrospect maybe it wasn't, but I saw it that way then.)

I was saying that recently, though Richard actually had more votes, switching to bv was fairly popular. I see how I was wrong about this, I guess.

I agreed with a question of yours. What was the problem? That's not really buddying- I found it scummy too, and all I said was that I agreed with the question.

And the last one? Definitely not buddying. You asked a question here:

I could have sworn this whole conversation in regards to bv was someone asking bv310 for meta as scum and him saying he doesn't have finished games as anything but VT or light PR's.

Anyone else miss that convo? Am I hearing voices?

So I answered it. That was it.

Is this your whole case? It seems like it's focused on my buddying up to you (which I don't feel I did). Also, to everyone else: You see that me saying that I chose to hide with farside made snse, as I had a town read and agreed with her on one or two things.

[Pomegranate]

I have never really settled into this game have I?
Ok I am happy with my vote. I don't think there is anyone else on the same level of scummy as Pom is at right now.

ABR raises a good point which only furthur cements my position on the matter.

Scummy as hell.

ABR brings up an extremely unlikely hypothetical situation that has no reason to believe is in the game. You're trying to rid a wagon with lame, lame reasons. How about you explain why you think I'm scum, why you give little credence to my claim, and why it is NOT beneficial to thetown to leave me alive for a few days in this situation.

[Sando]

Why would you hide behind someone you think is obviously pro-town? You're apparently completely unafraid of a scum kill?

[Espeonage]

It does seem pretty buddying to clear someone ot very clear considering according to your role yor life was in danger.

[Pomegranate]

Why would you hide behind someone you think is obviously pro-town? You're apparently completely unafraid of a scum kill?

I don't know; I knew that there were many places for a scum kill, and I didn't know what they'd choose. So I went for someone pro-town.

It does seem pretty buddying to clear someone ot very clear considering according to your role yor life was in danger.

Lovely statement. Respond to my post.

[Espeonage]

I have answerd all those points among my posts.

[Pomegranate]

Okay, great, I'll believe me if uoi direct me to where. Quotes, links, post numbers, whatever, as long as I know where to see it in a specific post (or more than one).