Mini 948 - Victorian Vampire - Game Over

[Darox]

Why would I need to follow up on my questions if they got a response?

None of my questions are rhetorical.

[cruelty]

huh you're a kiwi too


the impression i get is that you ask questions to look busy as opposed to genuinely seeking answers.

[Zang]

huh you're a kiwi too


the impression i get is that you ask questions to look busy as opposed to genuinely seeking answers.

What's kiwi?

[easjo682]

What's kiwi?

A New Zealander, I'm also a kiwi. so I take it you are a kiwi too cruelty?

also sorry I know I haven't been pssoting much lately I'm catching up at the moment and will make a lengthy post very soon.

[ooba]

We have deadline coming up in five days - should be moving forward with a lynch. Here are my list of candidates:

SpyreX
- Tunneling on just one player for most of D1
- Trying to set up linkages where none exist (Josh and me)

easjo
- Easily the worst amongst the lurkers
- Active lurking: Has time to answer what a kiwi is, but not the questions posed to him on his previous analysis
- Hasn't taken a stance (Disregarding the previous post)

Josh
- The slippery slope fallacy (If A roleclaims, then...)
- Attacking the attacker (Calling SpyreX 'crazy', 'delusional)

However I still hold that him asking for the more info on the role and then backtracking shows townishness. I'd put a SpyreX lynch over a Josh one. I'll decide where easjo comes in the list depending on the post he promised.

SpyreX, if the town is unwilling to lynch Josh or me today, who would be next on your list?
TheSkeward, if the town is unwilling to lynch Josh today, who would be next on your list.

[cruelty]

yeah i'm in chch, easjo.


@ooba, is that list in order (would you prefer to lynch spyrex over josh?)

However I still hold that him asking for the more info on the role and then backtracking shows townishness. I'd put a SpyreX lynch over a Josh one.

noted for future reference.

[Yosarian2]

SpyreX
- Tunneling on just one player for most of D1
- Trying to set up linkages where none exist (Josh and me)

Um, focuing on one player and attacking that person is not a scum tell at all, ooba. That's what a pro-town person should do if they think they have a scum. And how is trying to figure out who is linked with who a scumtell? That dosn't make any sense. For that matter, the only reason scum-SpyreX would gain an advantage from "trying to set up a link between you and Josh" would be if one of you was town and the other was scum, and I really don't think you're suggesting that Josh is scum with SpyreX.

I think Josh and SpyreX are probably both town. I'd be willing to lynch ooba, though.

Fixed quote tags -EB

[ooba]

Um, focuing on one player and attacking that person is not a scum tell at all, ooba. That's what a pro-town person should do if they think they have a scum.

There's a flip side to your argument - focusing on a single player is an easy way for scum to avoid commenting on any of the other players in the game.

And how is trying to figure out who is linked with who a scumtell? That dosn't make any sense. For that matter, the only reason scum-SpyreX would gain an advantage from "trying to set up a link between you and Josh" would be if one of you was town and the other was scum, and I really don't think you're suggesting that Josh is scum with SpyreX.

Figuring out who is linked to whom is not scummy but making links up without substantiating them is scummy. Two advantages:
a) It just muddies the waters and confuses analysis.
b) You're mistaken. I did suggest a SpyreX-Josh pairing earlier. This is also a reason why Josh remains in my list of candidates.

"All scummy things are directly related to me" - Josh

Of course, who am I to stand in the way of a bus. Only problem is that everything in this tryst points to Josh being a more valuable scum-PR.

Unvote, Vote: Ooba

"Hey this is just me hopping onto a growing wagon. I'm also trying to link a completely unrelated player to my scumbuddy (on whom I made a weak case and gave the appearance of attacking)"

And Yos, just to be clear, you think I'm a good lynch, because of the last post or are other reasons there as well?

cruelty, you've asked the question and answered it yourself ..

[ooba]

Um, focuing on one player and attacking that person is not a scum tell at all, ooba. That's what a pro-town person should do if they think they have a scum.

There's a flip side to your argument - focusing on a single player is an easy way for scum to avoid commenting on any of the other players in the game.

And how is trying to figure out who is linked with who a scumtell? That dosn't make any sense. For that matter, the only reason scum-SpyreX would gain an advantage from "trying to set up a link between you and Josh" would be if one of you was town and the other was scum, and I really don't think you're suggesting that Josh is scum with SpyreX.

Figuring out who is linked to whom is not scummy but making links up without substantiating them is scummy. Two advantages:
a) It just muddies the waters and confuses analysis.
b) You're mistaken. I did suggest a SpyreX-Josh pairing earlier. This is also a reason why Josh remains in my list of candidates.

"All scummy things are directly related to me" - Josh

Of course, who am I to stand in the way of a bus. Only problem is that everything in this tryst points to Josh being a more valuable scum-PR.

Unvote, Vote: Ooba

"Hey this is just me hopping onto a growing wagon. I'm also trying to link a completely unrelated player to my scumbuddy (on whom I made a weak case and gave the appearance of attacking)"

And Yos, just to be clear, you think I'm a good lynch, because of the last post or are other reasons there as well?

cruelty, you've asked the question and answered it yourself ..

[JoshTheStampede]

Josh
- The slippery slope fallacy (If A roleclaims, then...)

Can you please explain to me how this is scummy? SpyreX wasn't able to clarify that for me.

I made a debate mistake and if anything it shows that I was TOO worried about preventing roleclaims. That's the opposite of scummy.

The point of the game is to find scum, not to win a debate.

[ElectricBadger]

Nobody Special replaces Slaine Hayes - thank you NS! Deadline has been extended by a couple days to allow him to catch up as well.

Vote Count:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

(1) Darox: Zang
(5) JoshTheStampede: easjo682, TheSkeward, cruelty, MagnaofIllusion, SpyreX
(3) Nobody Special

Slaine Hayes

: CryMeARiver, Yosarian2, Ooba
(2) SpyreX: Darox, JoshTheStampede

(1) Not Voting: Nobody Special

Day One ends by April 20th at toll of midnight PST.

Day One ends by April 22nd at toll of midnight PST.

An early moon rises, too large to be natural.

[Nobody Special]

Oh, hi.

It seems I have a few votes.

I shall be reading and RUTHLESSLY SCUMHUNTING starting..... Now.


Anything that anyone might want to mention to me, mention away. I'm all ears.

[JoshTheStampede]

Oh, hi.

It seems I have a few votes.

I shall be reading and RUTHLESSLY SCUMHUNTING starting..... Now.


Anything that anyone might want to mention to me, mention away. I'm all ears.

I'm not going to mention anything because I am actually very interested in what someone thinks of the game so far when they weren't in the middle of it. I don't want to spoil it for you.

[Nobody Special]

Oh, hi.

It seems I have a few votes.

I shall be reading and RUTHLESSLY SCUMHUNTING starting..... Now.


Anything that anyone might want to mention to me, mention away. I'm all ears.

I'm not going to mention anything because I am actually very interested in what someone thinks of the game so far when they weren't in the middle of it. I don't want to spoil it for you.

...says the guy with more votes than I. Yes, it's interesting. That's a good word.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Nobody – get to you ruthless scum-hunting …

Is there anything in particular you'd like to know?

I’d like to know pretty much any insight you have into the game and it’s players. Right now the most prominent contribution to the game has been to vote Josh based on a few posts two weeks ago and post a nice picture of a flamethrower.

What are your thoughts on Ooba’s gambit? On Darox’s love of active lurking. On the fact that you, easjo and CryMe are just plain lurking.

Sorry guys, been working on an ISO of my suspect and have read through the thread quite a bit. Should be up tonight.

Assuming your suspect is Slaine (who is now Nobody Special) when can we expect the rest of your case at 287? Or is this enough that you think you can go back to lurking?

Active lurking is fun.

Really? I thought it was more clearly anti-town / scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Darox.

The casual manner in which you ignore actually contributing until you get a vote makes me slightly angry, and I don’t think I’m the only one. Active lurking is not Pro-town. Giving the reason that a player is Town is ‘cause I say so’ is also not Pro-town.

Lastly I’ll be V/LA from 4pm today until Monday the 19th.

[SpyreX]

304 is awesome much like Jack's suspect list: both sides and a lurker!

I'm not in the mood to settle for a third choice out of what we have. Slaine bothers me a whole lot more that easjo but with that replacement we'll see.

Magna would be my #3 but by a huge canyon.

----

Yea I never explained how slippery slope is scummy. I don't really think I need to delve in how overcompensation in trying to cover your dissonance is - and, further, you went "there's no slippery slope" sooo welll.

[JoshTheStampede]

Yea I never explained how slippery slope is scummy. I don't really think I need to delve in how overcompensation in trying to cover your dissonance is - and, further, you went "there's no slippery slope" sooo welll.

"I never explained how this was scummy, and I'm still not going to."

Also, who's Jack?

[SpyreX]

Name slip.

Glad you globbed onto that though.

"I actually gave the most basic example in the fake quoting you gave thanks for playing get lynched tia"

[Zang]

easjo
- Easily the worst amongst the lurkers
- Active lurking: Has time to answer what a kiwi is, but not the questions posed to him on his previous analysis
- Hasn't taken a stance (Disregarding the previous post)

I disagree, Darox is the worst of the active lurkers. He still hadn't said why he thinks you (Ooba) are scum.

I do agree with magna. I think he is confessing to active lurking as a joke in order to dismiss the fact that he is active lurking.

[Zang]

Also welcome NS!

[Nobody Special]

I have read through page 6. I have to do some actual, you know, work today, so the remainder of the thread will have to wait till tonight.

Some impressions:

-- I have run across "tech" on his very site before. It seems to be a young person thing (I'm older than dirt).
-- I'm not thrilled that Darox said he was an Innkeeper.
-- I'm even less thrilled that the bloody discussion of same went on for, like, forty pages afterwards (although, it may have helped with scumhunting).
-- Very skeptical of Josh.
-- SpyreX

is

acting differently here. (I know, meta BAD blah blah)

More later tonight.

[JoshTheStampede]

Name slip.

Glad you globbed onto that though.

"I actually gave the most basic example in the fake quoting you gave thanks for playing get lynched tia"

Didn't glob onto anything, I was actually confused about who you meant.

Also your 2nd part makes no sense. I'm not trying to make fun of you here, I just have no idea what "I actually gave the most basic example in the fake quoting you gave thanks for playing get lynched tia" means. Well, I understand the thanks for playing get lynched part just fine, but everything before that is greek to me.

Are you claiming that this:

Yea I never explained how slippery slope is scummy. I don't really think I need to delve in how overcompensation in trying to cover your dissonance is - and, further, you went "there's no slippery slope" sooo welll.

...is supposed to be an explanation of why me being too concerned with roleclaiming makes me scum? Because I'm not seeing that.

[JoshTheStampede]

I have read through page 6. I have to do some actual, you know, work today, so the remainder of the thread will have to wait till tonight.

Some impressions:

-- I have run across "tech" on his very site before. It seems to be a young person thing (I'm older than dirt).
-- I'm not thrilled that Darox said he was an Innkeeper.
-- I'm even less thrilled that the bloody discussion of same went on for, like, forty pages afterwards (although, it may have helped with scumhunting).
-- Very skeptical of Josh.
-- SpyreX

is

acting differently here. (I know, meta BAD blah blah)

More later tonight.

Meta is only bad when it's the whole case. It can be very useful as a supplement to a case.

How is he acting differently? Townier? Scummier? What?

[Nobody Special]

I have read through page 6. I have to do some actual, you know, work today, so the remainder of the thread will have to wait till tonight.

Some impressions:

-- I have run across "tech" on his very site before. It seems to be a young person thing (I'm older than dirt).
-- I'm not thrilled that Darox said he was an Innkeeper.
-- I'm even less thrilled that the bloody discussion of same went on for, like, forty pages afterwards (although, it may have helped with scumhunting).
-- Very skeptical of Josh.
-- SpyreX

is

acting differently here. (I know, meta BAD blah blah)

More later tonight.

Meta is only bad when it's the whole case. It can be very useful as a supplement to a case.

How is he acting differently? Townier? Scummier? What?

He's being less jovial, less outspoken -- which (to me) reads as scummier.

[SpyreX]

Well, lets try this again then:

You said that I've never explained why its scummy in detail. Which is true. Because, I really don't think it needs explanation (and the fact that you went "Nope, didn't do it" meant the point of trying to explain it to the masses to lynch you was going to be a waste of time if they didn't see it already)

But, allow me to expand.

The Slippery Slope can be scummy in a myriad of ways. Not to waste too much time I'll delve specifically into this version of it: justification for an action.

Again, I'll put this up:

Darox, please explain your innkeeper comment. Is that some sort of flavorclaim?

Darox, you really should not claim or tell us anything about your role, even the flavor, unless you really have to.

:then a discussion of what actual roleclaiming, etc, etc:

THEN:

This is very true. It's also dangerous even if the particular name is not a giveaway, because it might lead to others nameclaiming when they DO have more obvious flavor connections.

For example, if Darox comes out and says "Hey guys I'm the Innkeeper" no one really knows what that means, but if it causes Player B to then say "Yeah, I'm the Vampire Hunter" or "I'm the Holy Water Salesman" or something it's a lot worse in terms of bullseyes for the nightkill.

So, why is this scummy?

Initially, you have a case of severe cognitive dissonance in the "flavor" "don't give flavor". When called out on it you've opted with

a scenario that isn't going to happen. Ever. Not in a million years.

This kind of chicken-little fear mongering is scummy. It always is. When its used as a defense for a different stronger and more braver scummy action well.

----

NS - I'm not a young duckling by any means.

And while not jovial, sure... but not outspoken? REALLY?

(and I'm not stoked about "I've read through page 6" "this discussion went on pages afterwards")