Mini 934 - Troubles at Smiths&Catharts (Game Over!)

[MichelSableheart]

@Pie: Kthx had claimed VT during one of his first posts of day 1 already. I'm guessing he repeated that claim upon replacing out to make sure his replacement didn't miss it.

@Michel - could you restate why you feel Pie is the lynch for today? Other then the stuff SK and I went at him with and a general accusation of non-contribution I don't really see the case there.

Short summary: It's mostly the behaviour of his predecessors. NS joining the Ray wagon, Kthx voting TCC, Kthx vote Pome... Each of those votes felt to me like that playerslot was joining an easy bandwagon in the hope of getting a lynch, rather then actually believing they were voting scum. Furthermore, NS behaviour felt like active lurking, which is in my mind confirmed if I see how he responded to Ythan's "NS is lurking" accusation.

[Thor665]

I played with her in Newbie 898 (replaced in Night 1) where she lamented her efforts at coming up with a case Day 1 and declared the whole process of forming cases on Day 1 was against her habits and helped lead to her tunneling for much of that game.

@Kerrigan - Kthx declared vanilla townie during Day 1, what is your pet theory for why Ray chose to track him?

[Thor665]

EBWOP "her" in the post above is SFG and the comment is in response to Kerrigan.

[Pie_is_good]

My vote for Kerrigan is 60% RayFrost being mad scummy and there's just no way he should have survived day 1, 38% because I believe very strongly in roleclaims being the best source of information the town can get and I wanted to force one, and 2% your (Kerrigan's) actions.

The duel between myself and Kerrigan makes a lot more sense given that our predecessors both took a fair amount of heat day 1.

[MichelSableheart]

Cyberbob, I believe your post #931 missed the most interesting part of Fate's accusation of you: why did you vote Fate over SK?

[SaintKerrigan]

@Kerrigan - Kthx declared vanilla townie during Day 1, what is your pet theory for why Ray chose to track him?

I'd guess that he disbelieved the VT claim by Kthnxbye, and decided to track him. If he went somewhere, the only logical conclusion would be that Kthnxbye was lying scum. If he didn't go anywhere, either he was telling the truth, or he was a goon who didn't do anything.

60% RayFrost being mad scummy and there's just no way he should have survived day 1

Nothing I can really do to argue against that.

38% because I believe very strongly in roleclaims being the best source of information the town can get and I wanted to force one

Well, you got one. Do you now intend to lynch a claimed power role?

2% your (Kerrigan's) actions

Care to list those actions so I can try to defend myself?

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh, and Thor, what are your thoughts regarding my claim?

[MichelSableheart]

Analysing the nightkill...

Searching for all posts by Henry using msutils reveals no new posts on mafiascum since the last he made in this thread. Even though Col.Cathart hadn't even announced a prod yet, it is likely that Henry would have been replaced soon after the start of day 2. This makes it unlikely that the mafia based their kill on Henry's opinions.

What they did was kill a role who had been slightly guilty of active lurking and who was unlikely to become a mislynch any time soon. It seems a relatively safe kill, removing a pro-town player without giving very much information, and with a chance of hitting a powerrole. However, I can't find any direct powerrole tells.

It does tell me that the mafia did not want to kill any of the high profile players (Thor, Sotty, Copper) at the time. This probably means that either one of those players is scum or non of those players was on the right track. With the main alternative to the Pom lynch being the CSL and TCC wagons, I'm inclined to say that Fate and SK are slightly more likely town, and thor slightly more likely scum.

These are very weak conclusions though.

[Pie_is_good]

Here are my thoughts. tl;dr at the bottom.

Events/Observations of note:

-Locke (in form of Ythan) very focused on his meta during RVS (encourages people to read his other games, etc)
-RayFrost asks for explanation of slightly ambiguous random vote
-Copper/Locke (in form of Ythan) argue about merits of "spamming"

(through pg3)

-Locke (in form of Ythan) gets defensive very quickly when has spamming is critiqued.
-CSL (in form of Sajin (in form of SFG)) gets all cutesy and tells everyone that they're

super special

. Can probably chalk it up to meta, but IGMEOY.
-CheshireCat weighs in super weakly on the Locke (in form of Ythan)-is-spamming skirmish, like she just wanted to make an appearance in the debate.
-CSL (in form of Sajin (in form of SFG)) raises the point that people might be jumping on Locke (in form of Ythan) as an easy target.
-Sotty nails Henry (in form of Scrambles) to the wall on his Locke (in form of Ythan) suspicion.
-Thor is overeager, and as a result is focusing on irrelevant details.
-Pomegranate e-fellates Thor. Also, Pom and Henry (in form of Scrambles) and RayFrost are <15. I hope to god someone used this fact to fish ...
-Thor is doing Conspiracy Theorist scumhunting.
-Locke (in form of Ythan) is posting haphazardly - low filter from brain to keyboard.
-CheshireCat continues cheerleadering without actually contributing. Thor yells at her about this.
-The content:smiley face ratio in CC's posts is approximately 1:953.
-Copper hates fun.
-Ray hides behind meta, then subsequently starts lurkin'.
-Charter (in form of Inquisitor) with rapidfire questions. This is the sign of either scum or pretentious townie.
-Sotty is saying everything I would say.
-Henry (in form of Scrambles) again with the whining about age discrimination.
-Ray overreacts to Copper's accusation.
-Thor is hilarious.
-Good, RayFrost is getting wagoned. I support this.
-Cheshire says Ray is scummy but is unwilling to vote him. Sounds to me like a connection. If one flips scum, I'd go after the other.

(Through 9 pages)

-Locke (in form of Ythan) is getting wagoned. This is a bad thing.
-I

really

don't like the analysis of lurkage; the town is just getting on to something good and now they're getting distracted. If RayFrost or Locke (in form of Ythan) flips scum, FoS to Pom.
-Henry (in form of Scrambles) does this weird attack on NobodySpecial in which he says NS is scum regardless of RayFrost's flip. He gets well-deserved flak for it, but I get a strong town read on Henry (in form of Scrambles) off this series of posts. He reads slightly embarrassed at his logical stupidity but not concerned about his life for it.
-Cheshire still seems to want to make vague cameos in every conversation the town has. Strikes me as very scummy.
-Cheshire commences lurkerlynching. I would be voting either Cheshire or RayFrost at this point.
-Not feelin' the attack on Locke (in form of Ythan).
-Sotty continues to say everything I want to say.
-Holy shit NS is a dumbass.
-Zorblag seems a bit overly repentant for his (relatively not-that-bad) lurking. Not sure what to make of that.

(Through 15)

-Kthxbye (me) is running another Conspiracy Theorist attack. Ugh.
-Kthxbye/Locke (in form of Ythan) is hot sweaty town-on-town action.
-RayFrost is now attacking Locke (in form of Ythan), too! SHOCK! HORROR!
-Locke (in form of Ythan) gets super-pissed about being the lynch target. Seems legitimate; town tell.
-RayFrost drops the "Guys please use more LOGIC and SCIENCE in your attacks against me!" = Pet tell of mine.

(Through 20)

-Strong contributions from Locke.
-My GOD how is Cheshire not dead yet.
-Disagree with Copper that Cheshire's wagon was speedy - as far as I'm concerned it's not speedy enough. No accusation to Copper on this point, though. Copper's collective meta seems to be sitting back and disdainfully critiquing everyone else's opinions in impeccable grammar, and this is just an instance of that. As I previously stated, Copper hates fun.
-I find it strange that, even at lynch-minus-one, nobody is clamoring for a Cheshire claim (especially Pom, who expresses willingness to hammer).
-The sheer stupidity RayFrost is exhibiting in his attack on Kthxbye makes me wonder if I might be misinterpreting dumb as scum.
-Oh no. The Cheshire wagon is waning. Oh no no no no no.
-Thor is talking a lot of sense right here.
-This day just needs to END.

(Through 25)

-Dislike Pom lynch. I think the case on her is weak. I have a neutral read on her.
-For the love of God we had better not start wagoning Copper. The fact that people are even talking about it is ridiculous.
-The Pom wagon strikes me as horribly uninformative. It's a shitty wagon, but town is under deadline and succumbing to a bit of groupthink after a very long day.
-YES! DAY OVER!

Day 2:
-Henry Hathaway's death means the killer probably thought the mild suspicion against him wasn't going anywhere.
-Dislike Fate wagon.

tl;dr

Day 1:
Thor is town (and also competent; I lied). Henry (in form of Scrambles) is town. Sotty is town. Locke (in form of Ythan) is town. Cheshire is scum because she goes out of her way to not piss anyone off and avoid being accused of the standard scumtells. RayFrost is scum because he fell back on "meta" too quickly. The wagon on Locke (in form of Ythan) is crap, but I don't really have a read on Locke (in form of Ythan) either way.

Day 2: Kerrigan or Socrates wagons both good; mostly due to predecessors.


Disclaimer: I'm not actually completely done with the thread after all that, but I'm starting to glaze over and not take info in. Continuing at this point wouldn't do anyone any good.

[Pie_is_good]

Nothing I can really do to argue against that.

As a fellow wagoned replacer, you have my sympathies, but you're correct about that.

Well, you got one. Do you now intend to lynch a claimed power role?

I don't get it - this is the second game in a row I've played where people expect the claim of a power role to be enough to save them. So I'll say this:

The tracker-with-a-gun claim is a bit fishy. I have no idea why my playerslot would get tracked, but also Ray was a dumbass so that's less fishy. In day 1, Ray alluded to some sort of role weirdness (claiming cop/jester etc.) which makes it further less fishy. The idea that the mod

told

you you had a gun is fishy (did he say in the role PM "you're a tracker ... and by the way, you have a gun. Just in case, y'know, there's a hypothetical gunsmith around or something").

Care to list those actions so I can try to defend myself?

You seem to think we should unvote you just because you claimed a power role. You reacted strongly while attacking me when Thor validated you by joining in. As previously stated, you seem to be tiptoeing around ideas that could get you in trouble.

[Pie_is_good]

Probably not going to unvote Kerrigan. RayFrost is just too scummy to live. If we had more time I'd consider pursuing Socrates, whose predecessor I found marginally scummier than Ray (and I've found Socrates marginally scummier than Kerrigan).

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't get it - this is the second game in a row I've played where people expect the claim of a power role to be enough to save them. So I'll say this:

The tracker-with-a-gun claim is a bit fishy. I have no idea why my playerslot would get tracked, but also Ray was a dumbass so that's less fishy. In day 1, Ray alluded to some sort of role weirdness (claiming cop/jester etc.) which makes it further less fishy. The idea that the mod told you you had a gun is fishy (did he say in the role PM "you're a tracker ... and by the way, you have a gun. Just in case, y'know, there's a hypothetical gunsmith around or something").

The Role PM mentioned that I had a revolver as part of my flavor. I didn't associate that with a gunsmith until Sotty claimed gunsmith. I then asked the mod if my revolver counted as a gun for the purposes of a gunsmith's investigation, and the reply was affirmative.

As for my "do you still intend to lynch a power role" remark, it was with regards to the fact that you said 38% of your reasoning for voting me was to get a claim out of me. Now that I've claimed, it takes out 38% of your reason to vote me. Is what's left enough for you to consider lynching a claimed power role? Apparently so.

(1) You seem to think we should unvote you just because you claimed a power role. (2) You reacted strongly while attacking me when Thor validated you by joining in. (3) As previously stated, you seem to be tiptoeing around ideas that could get you in trouble.

1. You're misrepresenting me. I'm making sure you're fully aware of the consequences of voting for me. That way, going back to analyze things for Day 3 (if I'm dead), it will be known that you intentionally chose to vote for me.
2. I'm not sure I'm seeing what you mean. Clarify?
3. Give me examples, please.
3.

[Thor665]

Ugh. My brain now hurts.

I think my gut reaction is to accept Kerrigan's claim since, as Michel pointed out, it seems really odd to claim tracker w. a gun. My biggest issue with this is why Ray opted to track a claimed vanilla. However, to be honest Kerrigan's supposition doesn't seem totally out of left field, and also (Again being honest) I'd forgotten about Kthx's roleclaim until he did it a second time - so who is to say Ray didn't also, especially considering how checked out of the game he seemed at the time.

I'm not sure what to make of Pie's push on Kerrigan. It certainly does a bit to help validate for me my own suspicions of the Kerrigan slot, but at the same time it seems very aggressive and sudden and I think the suddenness is what's leaving me uncomfortable about it.

I really desire to hear Sotty chime in with thoughts, and Copper too for that matter.

[Socrates]

This is what I get for stepping away from mafiascum for 24 hours. I had completely forgotten that this game was near deadline. =.=

Saint's claim is that thing that I said that I expected him to do. Ray's play fits with a power role that expects he can get away with being dead weight/drawing wagons on himself due to being able to fall back on a power role claim. Saint's hard core opposition to massclaim just cemented it.

Tracker with a gun is not the claim that I expected though. O_o

I'm not 100% gung-ho on Saint's townie-ness and my policy is to never no-lynch, so I'll vote to hammer to prevent a no-lynch, but I'll feel wretched doing so.

[Col.Cathart]

Votecount 2.8

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch

If you'll encounter any kind of mistake in the votecount, please point it out.

Saint Kerrigan (4):

Thor665, Fate, Sotty7, Pie_is_good

(Warning: L-2)

Fate (3): charter, Cyberbob, SaintKerrigan
Pie_is_good (2): MichelSableheart, Socrates

not voting (1): Copper

The current deadline is on

Monday, April 19th 2010 at 6:30 PM GMT +1
Modified Countdown

Deadline in 16 hours.

[charter]

Well, that was just about the most convenient claim (has a gun, power role, and no result) I've ever seen someone make when run up, and thusly, is probably the thing I'm most suspicious of Kerrigan for, though that pales in comparison to my suspicion on Fate and Pie. I'm sticking with Fate.

[Fate]

Oh my lord SK is fakeclaiming. Let me go into detailed reasons why.

I'll start with RayFrost:
viewtopic.php?p=2141910#2141910
A game where RF was ACTUALLY a tracker. Here's a quote:

Eeeeh, my info isn't super awesome.

It's just a role that I've had before.

I was intent on doing better with it this game... >.<

Intent on doing better with it. And he replaces out this game? I don't believe it. In fact I saw him in IRC a few days after he replaced out, so "not feeling well" might as well mean "I didn't feel like being scum."

#2 Convenience: Here's another tracker fakeclaim:
viewtopic.php?p=2227116#2227116

She claimed the One-shot vig went nowhere N1 (OSV had claimed that he hadnt shot before Farside). I see the SAME convenience here, which makes me believe that when SK flips scum Pie is definitely a VT and not a scumbuddy (too risky).

And also like that game I linked above, farside continued to suspect the person she had tracked going nowhere. Why? At the very least, the person is cleared from being the killer or a mafia PR. Aren't there better targets? Yet SK has been going back and forth with Pie all day.

#3: To all those saying "tracker with a gun is a weird claim for scum." No. SK was 2nd to last to claim, after him was Michel who ALSO has a gun. SK then had to backtrack (oh crap I can't risk a CC here), and claims tracker with some BS flavor about why he has a gun. Don't try to reason scums claims as "too weird to be true." If SK had claimed a traditional gun role it might've been counter-claimed by Michel.

#4: Socrates says "oh him as a PR makes sense, that's what I thought all along." But of course he'll vote our CLAIMED TRACKER WHO HE BELIEVES to avoid a nolynch. HOLY HELL SCUMTEAM. Also Socrates' spin of SK being against MC as "Pr trying to hide." The only PR that has a right to hide is the doctor. With both a Gunsmith and a "Tracker" and a confirmed innocent alive, that's too many people to RB+Kill, so why was he worried. And we've already gone over the pro-town reasons for MC.

#5: Timing. Like I said, SK was one of the last to claim, and both my suspected buddies of hers claimed before hand with no gun, as if to say (you can take the fakeclaim since you've got the heat right now). I really don't know why SK was made to claim next to last, (I know I asked Charter to claim before him but as I said I assumed SK had already claimed.)

There is no way SK should get out alive today. We found scum, they gave us a fakeclaim, there's no reason to back down. Being afraid of claims "oh wow well I don't want to kill a

tracker

" only paves the way for scum to make fakeclaims that don't add up but have a fancy title.

Die scum, die.

[Pie_is_good]

Tangent: I don't understand why everyone fellates themselves over the role of Doctor. Doctor is a weak role that rarely has an impact on the game, and certainly doesn't have an excuse to lie during massclaim.

Untangent:

The Role PM mentioned that I had a revolver as part of my flavor.

Well, okay. But still, at risk of outguessing the mod, I find it a bit unlikely that Cathart decided to arbitrarily hand his tracker a gun in order to nerf the gunsmith a bit. That's both bastard modding and kind of pointless.

As for my "do you still intend to lynch a power role" remark, it was with regards to the fact that you said 38% of your reasoning for voting me was to get a claim out of me.

a) If I thought we had the time, I would wagon Socrates to a claim.
b) For reasons discussed above, I didn't find your claim all that convincing. So some of your 38% can be replaced by "The claim that I wound up getting wasn't all that great."

1. You're misrepresenting me. I'm making sure you're fully aware of the consequences of voting for me. That way, going back to analyze things for Day 3 (if I'm dead), it will be known that you intentionally chose to vote for me.

Err ... okay. You expected me to hide behind "I didn't know he was a tracker, I swear!"? I guess I'll just clarify right now that yes, I am indeed voting for you on purpose.

2. I'm not sure I'm seeing what you mean. Clarify?

First, we argued about massclaim. Then, you made a weak (comment on the intensity, not the validity) attack on me ("So, you claim that my lynch wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and then go on to say that the "other reasons" you mentioned weren't strong enough for a vote? Could you please explain this disparity?"). Then Thor starts chiming in to agree with you, and each time he does, your attacks get a little intenser.

3. Give me examples, please.

More of a gut thing, to be honest. Will try and post something on this if I have the time, but right now I'm late for shit.

I should be on again just before deadline.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob, I believe your post #931 missed the most interesting part of Fate's accusation of you: why did you vote Fate over SK?

I disagree with SK on more factual points but Fate came off as more actively scummy a number of times (particularly in his awful attacks on Copper and Socrates).

Anywho it doesn't look like a Fate lynch is on the cards, so I'll hang around and see whether my vote is going to end up being needed to prevent a No Lynch.

I would like people who aren't voting for Fate to explain why though.

[SaintKerrigan]

[quote="Fate]Intent on doing better with it. And he replaces out this game? I don't believe it. In fact I saw him in IRC a few days after he replaced out, so "not feeling well" might as well mean "I didn't feel like being scum."[/quote]

That is baseless speculation and total bullshit.

She claimed the One-shot vig went nowhere N1 (OSV had claimed that he hadnt shot before Farside). I see the SAME convenience here, which makes me believe that when SK flips scum Pie is definitely a VT and not a scumbuddy (too risky).

Well, now. Guess I'm guilty, since I did something similar to what scum did in another game? Or maybe there is such a thing as coincidence?

And also like that game I linked above, farside continued to suspect the person she had tracked going nowhere. Why? At the very least, the person is cleared from being the killer or a mafia PR. Aren't there better targets? Yet SK has been going back and forth with Pie all day.

Oh, this is complete and utter bullshit. Just because Kthnxbye didn't go anywhere

does not mean

the slot isn't scum. It just means it's less likely to be scum than some others, which is why I'm voting for you instead of Pie.

#3: To all those saying "tracker with a gun is a weird claim for scum." No. SK was 2nd to last to claim, after him was Michel who ALSO has a gun. SK then had to backtrack (oh crap I can't risk a CC here), and claims tracker with some BS flavor about why he has a gun. Don't try to reason scums claims as "too weird to be true." If SK had claimed a traditional gun role it might've been counter-claimed by Michel.

First of all, I was third to last to claim, not second to last. Get your damn facts straight. Second of all, WHY THE FUCK WOULD I CLAIM A ROLE THAT IS UNCONVENTIONAL WHEN I COULD HAVE HAD A MUCH EASIER TIME CLAIMING A ROLE THAT NORMALLY HAS A GUN? Pardon the shouting, but your deliberate obtuseness is just sickening to me.

[quote="Fate]#4: Socrates says "oh him as a PR makes sense, that's what I thought all along." But of course he'll vote our CLAIMED TRACKER WHO HE BELIEVES to avoid a nolynch. HOLY HELL SCUMTEAM. Also Socrates' spin of SK being against MC as "Pr trying to hide." The only PR that has a right to hide is the doctor. With both a Gunsmith and a "Tracker" and a confirmed innocent alive, that's too many people to RB+Kill, so why was he worried. And we've already gone over the pro-town reasons for MC. [/quote]

You forgot the quintessential rule of the human psyche: I don't like dying. Combined with the fact that my role is helpful to the town, that gives a me a vested interest in staying alive. So pardon me if I don't feel very much inclined to do things like out that I'm a power role.

#5: Timing. Like I said, SK was one of the last to claim, and both my suspected buddies of hers claimed before hand with no gun, as if to say (you can take the fakeclaim since you've got the heat right now). I really don't know why SK was made to claim next to last, (I know I asked Charter to claim before him but as I said I assumed SK had already claimed.)

This is, once again, baseless speculation and total bullshit. I honestly don't know why you people have left Fate alive for so long when he's been producing all this bullshit.

There is no way SK should get out alive today. We found scum, they gave us a fakeclaim, there's no reason to back down. Being afraid of claims "oh wow well I don't want to kill a tracker" only paves the way for scum to make fakeclaims that don't add up but have a fancy title.

Die scum, die.

You're going to regret saying those words. Count on it.

Oh, and my ghost is totally going to haunt your ass until you die. And when you die I'm going to slip St. Peter a note forged in God's handwriting that says you get to spend the rest of your life in Hell, Michigan.

I'll deal with the other posts later. If I'm still alive later.

[Copper]

This is ridiculous. I suppose this will only cement my title of 'fun hater', but since we are apparently defining 'fun' as 'lynching a claimed power role', I suppose I'll once again be the buzz kill here.

Fates 966 is far too specious for the amount of support it seems to be getting. Ray replaced out of many games at once and the idea that 'he wouldn't replace out if he was tracker, because he said he wanted to do it better' is nonsense. The other arguments are circumstantial and certainly not definitive.

We'll have plenty of time later to discern whether or not it's a fakeclaim, but I will

not

see a deadline scramble fall on our claimed PR. A no lynch is preferable to a SK lynch, in my opinion.

That leaves fate and Pie. For a multitude of reasons, I prefer Pie. The guarantee that we're not hitting a town PR is certainty appealing. There's also the simple fact that kthnx topped most of our lynch lists most of the day (and this is coming from the head that pushed Fate over kthnx at the start of D2). It's also worth nothing their attitudes towards the lynches. Fate seems to think he has found some clear-cut evidence that SK is fakeclaiming scum, with much of the same aplomb he pushed the case on us pre-Sotty claim. Pie, by contrast, is pushing SK with largely what looks to be an apathy 'meh' kind of case.

I realize this is a late post, and for that I apologize. But it took a lot of thought regarding SK's claim to come to this post. We all wanted him lynched before his gun claim, but after looking at it, it simply doesn't hold as a scum action. It screams town.

I am all but confirmed town at this point. As such, you know that this thought is not motivated by any scummy desire. We are once again scrambling towards a lynch, and no small measure of blame falls upon me. But I can still add this contribution, and prevent the town from lynching one of it's power roles.

Vote: Pie_is_good

Let's rush a lynch on the claimed vanilla and not the claimed tracker, shall we?

[MichelSableheart]

Thor, if you believe the claim of SK, why are you still voting him? Either make a case that you actually still belief him to be scum, or vote for one of the other bandwagons. We don't have much time left.

---

Fate, have you realized that it is possible for your suspicions to be wrong? It seems to me that you are not openmindedly analysing new information, but rather are actively looking for ways you can twist it so you can keep your suspicion on the same old targets. Please stop tunneling and start thinking.

Your argument that Ray wouldn't have replaced out if he was a tracker is nonsense, simply because Ray replaced out of all his games on the site.

The tracker fakeclaim you linked to is completely irrelevant. Given a bit of time, I can easily find a game where a town tracker investigated someone who didn't go anywhere, but still kept attacking him.

SK surprised by my gunclaim and afraid of a counterclaim? When he claimed, three players hadn't claimed. Do you honestly believe he didn't expect any of them to claim gun? Also, why wouldn't there be two of the same role in this game?

I completely agree with Socrates that SK's powerrole claim makes sense. Does that make me scum with them?

The fact that you don't suspect Thor and Cyberbob doesn't mean they are automatically town. Your argument that both his scumbuddies claimed before him assumes that you are completely right about your suspicions. As I said before, please be more open minded.

There is every reason SK should remain alive today. The most important one being that he is pro-town.

---

Cyberbob, I'm currently not voting Fate because I haven't seen any actual scumtells from that slot. Yes, she uses a lot of rubbish reasoning, and yes, she is tunneling in extremis, but I haven't seen any arguments whatsoever why scum is more likely to do that then town. In fact, I consider Fate's tunneling to be a slight towntell, simply because scum isn't likely to get so fully behind suspicions they know are wrong. I'm willing to vote Fate if it's needed to guarantee a lynch, but I believe that Pie is by far the better lynch.

[Col.Cathart]

Votecount 2.9

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch

If you'll encounter any kind of mistake in the votecount, please point it out.

Saint Kerrigan (4):

Thor665, Fate, Sotty7, Pie_is_good

(Warning: L-2)

Fate (3): charter, Cyberbob, SaintKerrigan
Pie_is_good (3): MichelSableheart, Socrates, Copper

not voting (0):

The current deadline is on

Monday, April 19th 2010 at 6:30 PM GMT +1
Modified Countdown

Deadline in 6 hours.

[Cyberbob]

I don't feel at all good about this, but

Unvote: Vote: SaintKerrigan

[Fate]

That is baseless speculation and total bullshit.

Just one piece of the puzzle. Did I mention Ray was acting scummy too?

Well, now. Guess I'm guilty, since I did something similar to what scum did in another game? Or maybe there is such a thing as coincidence?

And also like that game I linked above, farside continued to suspect the person she had tracked going nowhere. Why? At the very least, the person is cleared from being the killer or a mafia PR. Aren't there better targets? Yet SK has been going back and forth with Pie all day.

Oh, this is complete and utter bullshit. Just because Kthnxbye didn't go anywhere

does not mean

the slot isn't scum. It just means it's less likely to be scum than some others, which is why I'm voting for you instead of Pie.

I don't know why I didn't mention this before, but WHY TRACK A CLAIMED VANILLA IN THE FIRST PLACE? Your response is an easy "I dunno Ray did it" Ray is better than that. There is no WAY scum that claimed vanilla early would then go and make the kill for their team N1 anyway. If by some miracle you're town that was a complete and utter waste of a track.

First of all, I was third to last to claim, not second to last. Get your damn facts straight. Second of all, WHY THE FUCK WOULD I CLAIM A ROLE THAT IS UNCONVENTIONAL WHEN I COULD HAVE HAD A MUCH EASIER TIME CLAIMING A ROLE THAT NORMALLY HAS A GUN? Pardon the shouting, but your deliberate obtuseness is just sickening to me.

ATE AND WIFOM ALL IN THE SAME POST WHY WOULDNT I JUST CLAIM THE EASIER FAKECLAIM? I MADE THE WEIRD ONE THEREFORE I MUST BE TOWN.

You forgot the quintessential rule of the human psyche: I don't like dying. Combined with the fact that my role is helpful to the town, that gives a me a vested interest in staying alive. So pardon me if I don't feel very much inclined to do things like out that I'm a power role.

Well if all the PRs are on the table town knows what they are working with, scum can't very well fakeclaim PR without town being too strong, and scum also can't kill all the PRs in one night. But we already had this talk.

This is, once again, baseless speculation and total bullshit. I honestly don't know why you people have left Fate alive for so long when he's been producing all this bullshit.

"THIS IS BULLSHIT THIS IS BULLSHIT"
Nice defense ya got there. Guess I'm right on target.

You're going to regret saying those words. Count on it.

Oh, and my ghost is totally going to haunt your ass until you die. And when you die I'm going to slip St. Peter a note forged in God's handwriting that says you get to spend the rest of your life in Hell, Michigan.

I'll deal with the other posts later. If I'm still alive later.

Oh not the faked "you'll regret this" newbtown tell!? NAO I MUST REPENT FOR MY SINS!