Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Ojanen]

I have gotten severely out of loop here, responding to prod.
It's 2AM now but will be posting tomorrow morning.
Pom, why didn't you take the elementary precaution to getting your night action wrong and breadcrumb your target while you were hammering and ending D1?

[Pomegranate]

I don't breadcrumb. Well, I never have, but I might graduate to it someday. And I don't recall if at that point I'd made up my mind on farside.

[Ojanen]

Mmmkay. I checked you again and looks like you were claiming not caught up and not having much access before dedline while hammering which lessens this microscopically. Breadcrumbing target with a hider is a much stronger and self-evident benefit than with most any other roles though; turns your night action, if you get it wrong, to an indication of a cop guilty result instead of a pointless death.
Have you ever been in a game with a hider before?

[Pomegranate]

No, never played with a hider before. It's not extremely common, though, I have to say, it is a cool tole. But it confused me at first, which is actually why I originally massed up a bit oof my role while claiming.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why are you talking to the enemy Ojanen?

[NickF227]

Wagon, Porachaz?

There's one person on it...That isn't a wagon.

[Porochaz]

@Nick, 2 people actually, and your right but its people voting for you which is more than scumbag richard.

@ABR, I would be extremely disappointed in voting Pom today. I also think your attempts to derail some useful conversation happening when you have done absolutely fuck all interesting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You know I always aim to be interesting Popo.

[NickF227]

Actually, you would've noticed if you read the thread that Jahudo unvoted me and voted Pom....

[RichardGHP]

Prozac et al, I'm not stupid, just a reasonably inexperienced and mediocre player.

Your thin case (if you can call it a case) is noted.

[dybeck]

@ABR...I also think your attempts to derail some useful conversation happening when you have done absolutely fuck all interesting.

I agree. ABR - you've made your point about Pom. I think we all get where you stand. Stifling conversation and flinging allegations at those who are trying to stimulate discussion is, at best, unhelpful - and at worst, extremely scummy.

[Sando]

Ok, nope, having reread, I'm still failing to see a real danger to town from leaving Pom alive. I think ABR's 'scenario' is pretty highly unlikely, and I haven't really seen anyone else pose a downside. Sera's reasoning is equally faulty, in that the danger he proposes (using strong ability hurts town) presumably only happens if Pom is town, therefore using her ability correctly is pro-town, and leaving a scum alive doesn't hurt town in that regards.

I don't think scum would seriously have the balls to push a lynch like this on a claimed role D2 to be honest. I think they're wrong, but I'm starting to think pro-town for the early people pushing for the lynch on the role.

[Porochaz]

Actually, you would've noticed if you read the thread that Jahudo unvoted me and voted Pom....

Harsh, I have read the thread but please allow for the fact that I miss things on occasion. You are correct but even then he was voting for you and I would believe that its more the case on Pom than you being more townie.

Also

@

Richard, I know your not stupid. I'm saying that passing off your behaviour as stupid is not a good idea. Your inexperience makes it easy to do that where I genuinely think you have been scummy and the reason you haven't been lynched yet is this ridiculous "VI" ideology and that because you have acted scummy this whole game, whether your Mastin or Glork, you should be lynched.

Also its not a case, yet. I wouldn't expect people to vote on the basis of my last post. My last post was broad general strokes of a brush, like trying to paint the Mona Lisa with a paint roller. I plan to go further into detail in the next few days.

On that subject, Im going to be

V/LA

until Wednesday as Im away back to my uni flat with no laptop but my insurance company have said they are sending a replacement laptop (hopefully tomorrow)

[curiouskarmadog]

Too much to do and little time…think I have enough to update (from page 42)

Glad you could finally actually point out where you found me scummy. That wasn't so hard, was it.

LOL, hard for me? You are the ass hat screaming that I havent said anything about you when you read me ISO...however, it is GLARINGLY obvious you have not read me in ISO...why lie? Again, I hadnt posted that much at the time of you supposed ISO read, how could you have missed it if you really were trying to read me?

So I killed a vig to stop him killing me? Yeah that achieves a lot if I were scum, the kill totally wouldn't go through anyway... The entire premise of your argument is faulty.

I have no clue what you are talking about? How do you know when which kill goes through? This is a defense for what exactly?

So thinking over-reacting is scummy, is scummy. Yeah righto. I told you at the time I thought you were wrong, still do. I'm not going to answer it again, we simply disagree, if you think my scumhunting is scummy in this regard, nothing I can do about it.

When scum push a wagon on a town screaming they are scummy, do they really think they are scummy? No...I dont believe you really think over-reacting is scummy..you have a game you can link where you pushed over reaction as scummy I can see? If you can, I will retract my vote and most of my suspicion...I would put most of my money on you cant provide said link.

What made you change from <100 posts ago where I wasn't one of your top 5 suspects btw?

You have been scummy in my eyes since the "over reaction is scummy" BS. But when I found those PZ posts, that is what did it for me. Pom was scummer, but after the claim, you were next in line.

no time for a big post.....Pom, when did you decide you were going to hide behind farside?

Pom, have you answered this question yet?

Why would you hide behind someone you think is obviously pro-town? You're apparently completely unafraid of a scum kill?

really? This is a silly question....what I think you want to ask (if you are really trying to scum hunt) is why hide to begin with? I think she answered it before, something along the lines of "I was afraid of a vig kill"..the better question yet is Pom, why were you afraid of a vig kill? Do you deem your Day 1 play scummy? Why or why not?

I had a town read on you, but dont understand why you dont see a benefit to [keeping Pom alive].

There are benefits, certainly, but I think the benefits we get from lynching scum are much greater especially when it turns out that she is, in fact, scum and all we're left with is her "results" aka scum WIFOM.

Yeah, but you said you don’t see ANY benefits leaving her alive. Is she the only person you think is scum right now? You can bet your ass if we end up lynching her today and she flips town, I am bringing up this little thread of conversation here. Again, I am not saying we don’t lynch her…even if she is town, we need to lynch her later, to get confirmed people. Sera, answer this…if she is a town hider, what would scum be trying to do today at this point in reference to her?

Pometown would know she is a town power role. She knows power roles are important to the town. Why would she wait to L-1 to claim?

You cant really believe this line of shit? You must be a newbie or trying to stretch really hard to justify your vote.

Am I the only one thinking like this?

are you reading the game?

I really have nothing to say until we lynch Pom.

ABR, Richard...who else is scum? and why?

I have a question that I want everyone to answer: do you think Pom is lying about her claim? I don't want to hear "maybe"s or "let's wait a night"s, I want to hear what everyone's black and white opinion is.

I dont know....for me, this question can not be answer with a black and white yes or no.

There's nothing more to talk about. Lynch please.

you are so anti-town, you have to be town.

[curiouskarmadog]

No, never played with a hider before. It's not extremely common, though, I have to say, it is a cool tole. But it confused me at first, which is actually why I originally massed up a bit oof my role while claiming.

what confused you about it?

[curiouskarmadog]

Prozac et al, I'm not stupid, just a reasonably inexperienced and mediocre player.

congrats...you get a pass for the whole game!

[Faraday]

No, never played with a hider before. It's not extremely common, though, I have to say, it is a cool tole. But it confused me at first, which is actually why I originally massed up a bit oof my role while claiming.

what confused you about it?

catching up but this is a very good question I think.

[Faraday]

[

But I'm just thinking about risk versus reward. We've got a real potential tangible reward in keeping Pomtown alive, and nobody's really put a case that there's a real drawback in keeping Pomscum alive for a night - to see if a tracker or cop can confirm her one way or another tonight, and to get some further usable info from her night action tonight - usable info which will be confirmed fact if we decide to lynch her tomorrow.

Is the main problem that there's nobody else screaming scum?

i think rising outing more powerful roles to try and possibly confirm someone's a bad plan. we've no guarantee we even have those roles in the game.

[Javert]

1.)

I still think leaving Pomegranate alive is the strategically sound thing to do here. Although I have doubts about her claim, this is just like lynching a scummy claimed Cop on Day Two. Yes, she

might

be scum, but she also

might

be town. I cannot give as “straight” an answer as Seraphim is trying to force, because lynching a claimed power role this early in a game is a balancing act, not a strict dichotomy. Simply because things would be simpler if I could give a “black and white” answer, that does not mean I can honestly

give

a black and white answer.

The

best

argument for not lynching Pomegranate is that she might have a scum power role which could mess with the town (the most obvious example being a role-blocker). We already have one "mafia goon" dead, after all. But even if she is a Godfather, then that particular ability is unlikely to help her at this point.

As I said before, if this were a small game I might very well be pushing for her lynch, because small games can turn on very particular actions and orders. But seeing as this is a large game, we can afford to play a little wait-and-see. If she is scum, she is going to be going to be killed eventually anyways. If she is town, then we might be able to get information out of her, and additionally, she might just die because of the nature of her role so that we avoid her mislynch, which gives us another chance to lynch scum.

I am not particularly persuaded by the “lack of breadcrumb” argument. Many players do not breadcrumb, and players who do breadcrumb are also usually savvy enough to breadcrumb as scum just the same. Granted, I think Hiders should – moreso than other roles – breadcrumb before night, but for a player who claims to have never breadcrumbed before, I do not have that expectation.

2.)

Posts 1084 and 1085 (written by boberz and Albert B. Rampage) are ironically showing a lack of “reading the thread,” because Pomegranate was not attacking NickF227 for claiming “villager." That was dybeck was in 1078, although I am not sure it was really an “attack.” Pomegranate

was

attacking NickF227, though, for the old “but X is lurking, too!” defense.

3.)

I am actually starting to like Porochaz’s latest posts, but I want to see his case on RichardGHP before I consider moving my vote. I still do not like his Day One posting, and I still feel like he was trying to curtly answer my suspicions while deflecting me into a conversation with curiouskarmadog earlier.

[boberz]

On me reading the thread I am finding it slightly hard to get an foot in so to speak. I amreading every word but am not fully engaged somehow.

I did misread it but I still dont think it was immediately obvious. It would have made sense talking about the post directly above it, and it made no reference to any post so it was an acceptable mistake.

I understand dybeck did it, but I was criticising pom for jumping on the coattails of a crap case. My posts at the time clearly show that is how I understood it.

---

Basically dybeck has been bothering me for a while I am sure there is a reason so I will look when I get a bit more time.

[dybeck]

Basically dybeck has been bothering me for a while I am sure there is a reason so I will look when I get a bit more time.

Because you're scum and I'm the only one that's tried to build a wagon on you to date?

Just for reference, town generally look for scummy things and choose a lynch target based upon those things. Choosing a lynch target and then scrabbling for some sort of justification betrays you as scum.

Your joining of the bv wagon and then pulling away at the last minute bothered me yesterday too.

Make your case and I'll tell you what else I think.

[Faraday]

Basically dybeck has been bothering me for a while I am sure there is a reason so I will look when I get a bit more time.

?

Just for reference, town generally look for scummy things and choose a lynch target based upon those things. Choosing a lynch target and then scrabbling for some sort of justification betrays you as scum.

While true this isn't really related what boberz said, unless you think he's doing that, in which case, I guess waiting for the case would help.

I'm still thinking Pom could be more useful kept around for a little bit.

[boberz]

I am not doing it I just genuinely dont have time to collate a case right now.

But I suppose Dybeck trying to misrep my post there (it was not OMGUS and it was not choosing a target before making a case). In facti if I look back and there is nothing then there still wont be a case. But heyho.

[dybeck]

Go go Boberz/Faraday scumteam!

[Amished]

Looks like I didn't miss much.

At this point I'm wondering why Pom isn't lynched, and if she isn't going to be then why is dybeck is still alive?