Mini 934 - Troubles at Smiths&Catharts (Game Over!)

[Col.Cathart]

Votecount 3.0

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

not voting (8):

Pie_is_good, Saint Kerrigan, Thor665, Cyberbob, Socrates, MichelSableheart, Copper, charter


The deadline is:

Thursday, May 6th at 7:30 PM GMT +1
Countdown

[Pie_is_good]

Let's get with the massclaim.

[Pie_is_good]

Also, hey, Fate was scum! I mean who saw that coming?

[Thor665]

Presumably charter.

Pie, in light of how the lynch and flip went do you still suspect SK?

I'm still suspicious of Pie, by process of elimination I'm angling towards Socrates and Cyberbob as also high on my scumlist though I will admit considering Fate's pressure on Soc in early Day 2 that he seems less likely. I definitely need to re-read the thread now to see what Fate's actions can or cannot show me.

I support the mass claim motion.

[SaintKerrigan]

Thor, care to explain what you were doing last night?

[MichelSableheart]

Thor, can you please explain a bit further why you are eliminating charter from your list of possible scum? He may have been the first on the bandwagon, but his vote for Fate doesn't strike me as obv town. In fact, I would list Socrates as more likely town then charter.

I still believe Pie is likely scum. My push for a Fate lynch at the end of yesterday was mainly the result of not wanting to see SK lynched.

Vote: Pie_is_good

I'm not a fan of massclaim anymore. The mass gunclaim did what I wanted to accomplish.

[SaintKerrigan]

And what did you want to accomplish with the gunclaim, Michel?

[charter]

Pie, who's your top suspect right now?

Thor, same question.

I'm going to be out of town for a few days, most likely with no access.

vote Pie

Pie's 'Fate is scum' post seems pretty over the top, and he's still basically active lurking by just blabbering about massclaim.

Thor spent most of yesterday saying he thought Fate was scum, but never did anything about it until his quickhammer.

[Thor665]

Thor, can you please explain a bit further why you are eliminating charter from your list of possible scum? He may have been the first on the bandwagon, but his vote for Fate doesn't strike me as obv town. In fact, I would list Socrates as more likely town then charter.

His early voice for Fate strikes me more as more town then scum performing either bussing or a 'vote for your partner while no one else really is so eventually if they are lynched some day phase you'll earn town points' stratagem.

As I noted in my above post I do consider the early Fate/Socrates interactions potentially clearing of Socrates but until I get up the verve to actually do a re-read of the thread I'm content to leave Socrates on my suspect list.

Thor, same question.

Pie. I guess it wasn't fully as clear as I intended in my above post, but there is a reason he was listed first and before the 'process of elimination' comment.

Thor, care to explain what you were doing last night?

This is interesting because I actually don't trust you all that much and am still not sure if I buy your claim. To a certain extent I see a pro-town action here in fishing for this info from me, but I also see a potential scummy reason insomuch as you might be fishing for info to back your fakeclaim.

I will answer with - if you indeed tracked me, you wouldn't be worried by the result.

[Pie_is_good]

Do you still suspect SK?

I'll have to go back and check. If they were attacking each other before anyone else wagoned, I don't suspect SK as much. If they only started once their respective wagons were underway, then yes, I still suspect SK.

Pie, who's your top suspect right now?

1) Socrates, 2) SK.

Pie's 'Fate is scum' post seems pretty over the top,

Your sarcasm detector is broken.

and he's still basically active lurking by just blabbering about massclaim.

You either haven't been reading or don't want to bother forming your own attack.

FoS: Charter. Don't like the whole post, especially where he accuses Thor of a quickhammer. Having the balls to hammer is not scummy.

[Thor665]

Eh. I can actually see some logic from charter on that angle, insomuch as I was doing a lot of voicing from pretty early on about Fate but never really tried to lead the charge.

I will say I find it really odd he calls a hammer one hour prior to deadline with no other wagon in contention a "quickhammer" That seems a bit of a misrepresentation of my action in a more scummy light without actually focusing on what I did or did not do that was scummy. I'll accept it was a hammer of a case I did not lead any charges on, I will not accept it was a quickhammer.

[Pie_is_good]

Whoopsies. Tags got blown on that last post.

Fixed that already - Cathart

I seem to be turning into the wagon du jour, which I can't say was entirely unexpected. Y'all seem to be accusing my replacements rather than me, which is a fair reason to suspect someone, but I've posted a fair amount of content (including a big whoppin' post at the end of last day) that, at some point, I would hope would start to wash out my predecessors a little (my slot's scumminess:posting ratio drops). I'm mostly making this quibble because if we get out of this day without anyone sacking up and attacking something I can defend, the day will be rather useless.

[Pie_is_good]

Also
Yes on Massclaim (2) Pie, Thor
No on Massclaim (1) Michel

[Cyberbob]

Y'all seem to be accusing my replacements rather than me, which is a fair reason to suspect someone, but I've posted a fair amount of content (including a big whoppin' post at the end of last day) that, at some point, I would hope would start to wash out my predecessors a little (my slot's scumminess:posting ratio drops).

"scumminess:posting ratio"? Sorry, but no. You are unquestionably a better player than your predecessors; any attempt at using your own posting to excuse theirs is more than a little ridiculous.

Vote: Pie_is_good

I'm mostly making this quibble because if we get out of this day without anyone sacking up and attacking something I can defend, the day will be rather useless.

The day is still young. I have no doubt that there will be other topics of discussion than you before we lynch someone (whether that be you or someone else).

[Pie_is_good]

"scumminess:posting ratio"? Sorry, but no. You are unquestionably a better player than your predecessors; any attempt at using your own posting to excuse theirs is more than a little ridiculous. Vote: Pie_is_good

Huh? Volume of posting is actually

exactly

how I plan to excuse theirs. Many have (correctly) mentioned that I have no business defending their posting against attack - I can't get into their heads any better than you can - so all I can really do is post a lot of content, hope that people don't find it so scummy, and eventually move on.

Thinking like yours - ignoring the fact that more posting will, statistically, cause more instances of perceived scumminess - is what leads to shitty wagons like the one on Copper earlier. Copper wasn't scummy; he just posted a lot so there was a lot of ammo against him.

Re: The night still being young
Three people voted for me with their first post of the day. A fourth has named me as his number one suspect, and I recall making the other three's lists. You'll forgive me if I'm not so optimistic. I'm an awfully easy wagon to join right now, so I'd like to see people actually defend their votes a bit. If I get lynched I won't be mad; my predecessors were admittedly both terrible at mafia. But as a townie the best I can do is make my death some info.

I'd like everyone who hasn't done so to weigh in on the massclaim question.

[Pie_is_good]

No Access Friday, Limited Access Saturday.

[Cyberbob]

Huh? Volume of posting is actually

exactly

how I plan to excuse theirs. Many have (correctly) mentioned that I have no business defending their posting against attack - I can't get into their heads any better than you can - so all I can really do is post a lot of content, hope that people don't find it so scummy, and eventually move on.

I agree that you can't do any more than that (whether you're scum or town) but I disagree that it should in any way invalidate or dilute the scumminess of the people that came before you.

Thinking like yours - ignoring the fact that more posting will, statistically, cause more instances of perceived scumminess - is what leads to shitty wagons like the one on Copper earlier. Copper wasn't scummy; he just posted a lot so there was a lot of ammo against him.

If you're going to take the time to categorise my thinking I would appreciate it if you got it right. Thanks.

Re: The night still being young
Three people voted for me with their first post of the day. A fourth has named me as his number one suspect, and I recall making the other three's lists. You'll forgive me if I'm not so optimistic. I'm an awfully easy wagon to join right now, so I'd like to see people actually defend their votes a bit.

We shall see. I've seen plenty of kneejerk wagons forming at the start of a day that don't result in a lynch. Personally speaking I am keeping a very close eye on anyone that might be tunnelling this easy wagon; I will not support your lynch if I think a better one exists.

[Col.Cathart]

Votecount 3.1

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Let me know, if I made any mistakes.

Pie_is_good (3):

MichelSableheart, charter, Cyberbob

(Warning: L-2)

not voting (5): Pie_is_good, Saint Kerrigan, Thor665, Socrates, Copper


The deadline is:

Thursday, May 6th at 7:30 PM GMT +1
Countdown

[MichelSableheart]

unvote

I have to partially agree with Pie that this wagon is moving a bit too fast with too little reasoning. There's more to this game then just the posts made today. I'm not certain enough of charter and Cyberbob to be comfortable seeing them joining me on an L-2 within 24 hours of the day starting.

@Pie: This definately does not mean I'm not suspicious of you anymore. In particular, I don't like the term scumminess:posting ratio. Actions speak louder then words. I consider the fact that you were arguing in favour of an SK lynch is a strong mark against you.

And what did you want to accomplish with the gunclaim, Michel?

If I wanted to explain, I would have done so in my previous post. I will give my reasons eventually, but definately not now.

His early voice for Fate strikes me more as more town then scum performing either bussing or a 'vote for your partner while no one else really is so eventually if they are lynched some day phase you'll earn town points' stratagem.

Early voice? Socrates, Copper and Sotty all voted Fate before charter did, and only Sotty really argued against a Fate lynch when she unvoted her.

I can easily see charter scum voting fate there. He couldn't keep his vote on Copper after Sotty's claim. He couldn't really vote SK, because an L-1 vote on such a rapidly moving bandwagon would draw quite a bit of heat. He had the choice of voting Pie, Fate or Socrates. Why wouldn't he vote a partner there when at that point it didn't look like it would likely lead to a lynch?

I'm not saying charter is obv scum, but I'm not willing to rule him out completely either.

[Thor665]

I can easily see charter scum voting fate there. He couldn't keep his vote on Copper after Sotty's claim. He couldn't really vote SK, because an L-1 vote on such a rapidly moving bandwagon would draw quite a bit of heat. He had the choice of voting Pie, Fate or Socrates. Why wouldn't he vote a partner there when at that point it didn't look like it would likely lead to a lynch?

I'm not saying charter is obv scum, but I'm not willing to rule him out completely either.

That's a good point, I'll try to keep that thought in mind during my read through.

As far as the read through goes (work in progress) I'm up through the beginning of the CSL era of Fate/CSL/Saijin/SFG and will note the vote/disappear trick CSL pulled on TCC (aka Socrates) with the later pressure Fate then also put on Socrates this does cast doubt on the possibility of it as a bus attempt and makes me think Copper was quite accurate with the 'wagon growing too fast' comments about the TCC wagon. This does seem a good reason to see town energy from Socrates.

@Pie - you list Socrates as your number one suspect, considering the above how does that work into your concept? Was all the TCC/CSL and Soc/Fate stuff simple bussing? Why do you see it as such?

[Pie_is_good]

In a hurry so I'm just going to address the scumming:posting ratio that seems to be generating flak. I'm slightly baffled as to how you (Cyberbob, Michel) scumhunt if not this. If player A makes 100 posts, 5 of which are scummy, and player B makes 50 posts, 4 of which are scummy, I would much rather vote player B. In this game, the public seems to perceive my playerslot as having a bunch of scummy marks against it. Since I can't manipulate that variable, all I can do post. To clarify: I believe Copper was the guy who made 100 posts, 5 of which were scummy, and got wagoned for it. Which is dumb.

Michel: Why is pushing SK death scummy exactly?

Thor: I realize you have outstanding questions to me but I don't have time to do them justice for a couple days.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Pie: Some posts contain more scumminess than others.

This is interesting because I actually don't trust you all that much and am still not sure if I buy your claim. To a certain extent I see a pro-town action here in fishing for this info from me, but I also see a potential scummy reason insomuch as you might be fishing for info to back your fakeclaim.

I will answer with - if you indeed tracked me, you wouldn't be worried by the result.

Hmm...I will need some time to ponder this answer, which I don't have time to do amidst watching the NFL Draft. Something feels wrong about it, but I can't quite place it yet. Expect me to revisit this when I'm actually able to concentrate on my posts.

Basic story, though, is that I tried to track you last night, but I got roleblocked. So my question to you this morning was designed to try and get something useful out of my role.

Why I decided to track you:

- I got a sense of excessive neutrality reading your posts, which I think is a very strong indication of a scum mentality.
- You had Fate as a top suspect for a good part of Day 2, yet you refrain from voting him until one hour before deadline, and it was a hammer vote at that.
- By contrast, you voted me for "not producing enough content," and even when I

did

start to produce content, you kept your vote on me until, again, one hour before the deadline, after it became apparent that I wasn't going to be the lynch.

Since my top suspect, Pie, has a fair share of votes on him, I think we'll go with a

Vote: Thor.

@ Michel: If you don't want to say anything, that's your prerogative. I would guess, however, that if you are a town power role, then you will most likely be the one to die tonight. In light of that, if you have any pertinent information, I recommend that you share it today.

That's just my advice though. Feel free to accept it or ignore it.

[SaintKerrigan]

In other news, Socrates is posting elsewhere on the site, but has refrained from posting here.

Mod: Mind giving Socrates a reminder that the game is up just so he doesn't have any excuse for not posting here?

[Thor665]

- I got a sense of excessive neutrality reading your posts, which I think is a very strong indication of a scum mentality.

I strongly disagree with this claim. I feel I have done a solid job in being open and clear about my suspects on a regular basis and have made loud and long defenses and accusations against various players. I spit upon this accusation ::ptoo-ptoo::

I cannot refute your other two points on me. I probably should have been more active over Fate, but I let myself get pulled into a lot of the claim conversation that ate up a big chunk of Day 2. Also, maybe I should have unvoted you sooner, but I didn't particularly trust you and Ray had made the slot scummy to me as I'd said earlier in the day and I was quite content to leave the vote there, it was only Copper and Michel's strident arguments against the action that really sold me otherwise, and those came quite late in the day. I'm not sure why it's a scumtell that I hammered Fate, couldn't I have just lurked and "missed" the deadline?

What makes you so certain Michel will be NKed and not you?

[Socrates]

Yes Yes hello hello I am here.

I'm glad Fate is dead.

Saint is still town.

Pie is still scum.

Mitchel and Charter (for being the first to abandon SK and being stubborn, respectively) were probably most instrumental in getting Fate lynched at deadline, and are both probably town.

Need to re-examine Thor.