Star Wars Mafia (Game Over)

[semioldguy]

Having people think you are in the clear is a better situation to be in than simply not being suspected or not on the radar.

Seriously? Is that the best come back you have? Did you find that in a fortune cookie?[/quote]
It isn't a comeback. Every game I have employed that successfully as scum, I have won. It is well worth the risk.

As scum clearing oneself or a teammate is a priority. If scum can clear themselves, it lead to a victory for scum. Scum can't guarantee that they will stay under the radar. As town, finding scum is the priority. If town can find all the scum, it leads to a victory for town. If I did what CryMeARiver did, it would be much more likely that I am scum than town.

You can't argue that someone would do something as town but would not do that same action as scum. Any action that town would take, scum can take also. Both town and scum can do the same things, but they will do the same things for different reasons. You can't tell if someone is scummy or not by looking at the actions they take, you have to analyze the reasoning they employ behind their actions.

The majority of players on Mafiascum only look at the actions without really considering the motivation behind each action and taking in the context surrounding the action. This is the reason why players like danakillsu get lynched or are suspected as often as they do. They aren't bad players.

If there was no motivation for scum to do something... then explain what the motivation be for town to do it. If only town had a motivation to do it, wouldn't that then give scum a motivation to do it as well?

[semioldguy]

Sorry... messed up the quote tags.

Having people think you are in the clear is a better situation to be in than simply not being suspected or not on the radar.

Seriously? Is that the best come back you have? Did you find that in a fortune cookie?

It isn't a comeback. Every game I have employed that successfully as scum, I have won. It is well worth the risk.

As scum clearing oneself or a teammate is a priority. If scum can clear themselves, it lead to a victory for scum. Scum can't guarantee that they will stay under the radar. As town, finding scum is the priority. If town can find all the scum, it leads to a victory for town. If I did what CryMeARiver did, it would be much more likely that I am scum than town.

You can't argue that someone would do something as town but would not do that same action as scum. Any action that town would take, scum can take also. Both town and scum can do the same things, but they will do the same things for different reasons. You can't tell if someone is scummy or not by looking at the actions they take, you have to analyze the reasoning they employ behind their actions.

The majority of players on Mafiascum only look at the actions without really considering the motivation behind each action and taking in the context surrounding the action. This is the reason why players like danakillsu get lynched or are suspected as often as they do. They aren't bad players.

If there was no motivation for scum to do something... then explain what the motivation be for town to do it. If only town had a motivation to do it, wouldn't that then give scum a motivation to do it as well?

[CryMeARiver]

I would like to know the wherabouts of Kast in all of this nonsense and what his thoughts are. I will respond to everything tomorrow as I must finish and essay by midnight, but I think his dayvig might be useful again today.

[d3x]

I will be V/LA from April 23rd until May 2nd

Other comments coming soon {as work allows}.

[farside22]

@Semiold: You have links to this action where you cleared yourself and a scum team?

Also I seem to note that CMAR said something about why he did the claim. Interested to know why you missed that.

[DragonsofSummer]

I think its fair. I've been absent the entirety of this game.

I have nothing to say about you farside because I feel you are town, and the bounty situation has already been discussed to death.

[farside22]

I think its fair. I've been absent the entirety of this game.

I have nothing to say about you farside because I feel you are town, and the bounty situation has already been discussed to death.

What do you think about those who asked CMAR to claim in full after the particle claim and what is your take on it?

[semioldguy]

@Semiold: You have links to this action where you cleared yourself and a scum team?

Also I seem to note that CMAR said something about why he did the claim. Interested to know why you missed that.

(1) You are stretching the truth. Clearing oneself and a scum team is never something I said. Please try not to exaggerate in the future.

(2) Go read Open 158 in my Wiki. Everyone cleared ekiM of being my godfather and he lived until endgame and won the game.

(3) I didn't believe that CryMeARiver actually would have thought that you were in harm's way at the time of his claim. I saw no compelling evidence or reason to believe that you were going to be run up and/or lynched due to having a bounty on your head or that a grab for the stun grenade was likely. So, no, I didn't miss it. I saw it, and the reason he gave is bad and not a good enough reason to claim anything when he did.

(4) Care to elaborate on why you think only town would do something and why scum wouldn't have a reason to do the same thing?

[Kdub]

Vote Count

d3x (0)

-

farside22 (0)

-

wolframnhart (0)

-

ooba (0)

-

Kast (0)

-

Toon Fighter (0)

-

ReaperCharlie (0)

-

CryMeARiver (1)

- Slicey

Dragon Phoenix (0)

-

Wreck Star (1)

- bv310

Slicey (0)

-

Vel-Rahn Koon (0)

-

AlmasterGM (0)

-

Scott Brosius (3)

- FC Groningen, ReaperCharlie, d3x

danakillsu (3)

- farside22, CryMeARiver, DragonsofSummer

FC Groningen (0)

-

semioldguy (0)

-

DragonsofSummer (1)

- Dragon Phoenix

bv310 (4)

- Scott Brosius, AlmasterGM, Wreck Star, wolframnhart

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (6)

- ooba, Kast, Toon Fighter, Vel-Rahn Koon, semioldguy, danakillsu

19 votes available, 10 votes needed to lynch

Deadline is May 22, ~10 am PDT

Sorry I haven't been able to do vote counts every page, I have somewhat limited access at the moment.

[d3x]

Obviously work didn't allow me time enough to post. So I'll do it now...

1) I could say the same for if I am town (which I am). I wanted to 'confirm' Farside because of the bounty
2) If we were on the same team, never would I EVER do that. If one of us gets lynched, both of us go down not to mention that neither of us had any pressure on us at the time. This is just stupid.

Settle, bro. farside asked if there were Scum motivations behind Claiming early as you did. I saw some potential Scum motivations and then immediately went on to say that while possible, I believed you.

I didn't want you to reveal the Alliance JOAT thing yet, CMAR. I just wanted your rolename.

Assuming Cry didn't FullClaim, how would his revealing himself as Yoda have changed anything? How would you have guaged the truthiness of his Claim by this info?

The power I used last night was "Force Sensitive (Investigate)".

Does this work exactly like a Cop's Investigate power? I'd just like this to be absolutely clear.

He definitely at least had a fakeclaim of Yoda ready. I'll have to think about this one more.

Is there a specific reason you don't believe him?

@Scott587- Thank you Scum.

@RC- What's teh deal with the 'Note'? I'm not asking you to give the details, but why are you making vague Notes for us to read without any information in them?

I really don't like how d3x basically forces a claim out of CMAR with post 471.

What? It'd be a different story if Cry came out and SoftClaimed, but he didn't. He changed his story in a suspicious manner. He said his reaction to the situation is that she's probably Town aligned and then switched to saying she

is

Town aligned. This doesn't make sense. Of course I'm going to ask about incongruities I find, it's called ScumHunting. I didn't 'force' him to Claim anything.

This post is really terrible.

I'm glad you liked it.

d3x says he is fine with AGM voting to wagon, but not okay with scott's vote because scott was not very useful on day one? This reaks of an opportunity/distancing vote.

Nice misrep there! I said that I understand but don't really like AGM's Vote. I can understand a BW Vote for the sake of a BW Vote. A hypocritical Vote on the other hand is very scummy.

d3x misreps what wreckstar says to the extreme.

I've explained this. You don't like it, that's fine.

[FC Groningen]

I see a lot of meta and appeals to probability coming from SoG. Not sure how to take it. Also, Dana's posting has been noted, but I have yet to see why I should switch off Scott. Also, by the looks of it, Dana and Scott could be linked together. (because of his obvious defence.)

I'd also like to hear from Phoenix Dragon and the challenges I gave him.

[Wreck Star]

[Starbuck]

Happy ScumDay d3x!

He just comes back every 5 days and says 'Sry I'll post more.'
I don't think prods will work. Just replace him, please. Thx.

Mod - This ^^

On Toon Fighter

Well, looking at CMaR's claim, I think the best move as town would be to lynch him. If he turns up innocent, then we just lynched a (now vanilla) townie and confirmed farside as innocent. If he turns up guilty, then we have just lynched scum. What do you think?

Are you kidding me?

FOS: Toon Fighter

Can we lynch this guy?

On Scott Brosius

Let me clarify, my participation was less than stellar D1 I will acknowledge, but another game I was in just ended so I have been participating more. I don't think it's fair that I get lumped in with people who have posted 4 times.

You AREN'T the one who gets to decide this.

On semioldguy

As for bv310, he hasn't contributed a whole lot, but has taken stances on a few suspects. I'd lean slight town on him for now.

What stances? Have you read the guy in ISO? He jumped on us (me & Reck) because Reck called him out early on lurking. He rides that for 6 posts. He then votes Scott Brosius because Scott had as many posts as him, but contributed even less. He then jumps on the easy HP wagon (at L-1 nonetheless).

Then we started Day 2 where he jumps back over to me & Reck, and hasn't posted since.

So tell me (out of his ISO), what's so townie? What am I not seeing here?

On CryMeARiver

I've never used them in the many Star Wars games I have played and they were never mentioned in any of the books I have read or movies I have seen

You know that "Stars Wars Geek" pin that I gave you? I'm taking it back now. =P


I'm glad to see that you are starting to lurk less in games.

He is R2D2. There is no way he could be on the dark side.

This makes me want to make a droid game.



Yoda (as a JOAT) makes sense to me. CMAR, if you are town, I'm not sure why you felt you had to claim so early. If I was you, I would have kept that shit under wraps, at least until you knew farside was in trouble somewhere down the line.

I also didn't notice your breadcrumb, but I normally suck at noticing them.

On danakillsu

because I don't really believe CMAR.

Why?

I'm not liking dana's reaction to this whole situation at all. He's been pushing on CMAR's roleclaim for awhile now. It feels like hidden agenda.

Unvote
Vote: dana

[semioldguy]

He puts his votes out there. I am not saying he is super town or anything, there are certainly higher candidates for that, but I don't see anything to vote him over. Both you and Reck garner votes for reasons I often disagree with in the games I've had with you, but that doesn't qualify a person for a vote.

He isn't "so townie" it's just that I don't see him as scummy.

[ooba]

ooba- what do YOU think about the bv and scott wagons?

Neutral. Scott seems useless with no original scumhunting until now; bv seems to fixated upon you for some reason. Both haven’t posted much – but neither is scummy.

Ooba jumps in asking dragon phoenix questions about the wagons that he hasn't commented on himself. Seems like someone trying to look like they are contributing while not putting any ideas forward.

I do not feel the need to comment on everything. If I spot something scummy, I’ll post my thoughts on it. I took up DP’s case there since it was a post\vote which basically did nothing. It sort of reduced the pressure from the other two wagons at that time. Hence my question to him about his thoughts on bv and Scott.

---

Me claiming information without pressure is good.

I only claimed to have that info so as not to tempt town to lynch farside just for the stun grenade, I wouldn't have if it hadn't been for the bounty, I don't consider myself a noob, and I would never pull that idiotic gambit as scum.

Please do not think your play was good. Your play would have been good if you had done this if Farside had been at L-1. Now, all you've done is out a power role. (I think you've realized this yourself when you post about the Doc\Watcher on you and farside - you just reduced the probability to 50% for scum).

Actually, the purpose of that post was I wanted to know what other people thought of vigs. It genuinely had nothing to do with this game. But I still used the info I got from it.

This is a lie. Although you have worded your first post as though you are asking about a one-shot vig; it is pretty clear that you want info about a one-shot investigate. (and this was created close to the end of this game's D1). Case of clear backtracking after people calling you out for posting out of game thread since you admitted to it before that:

I had no idea what I should do with a one shot investigation. Whether I should keep it for later in the game or use it N1 and try to clear/catch a person. I posted in that forum and TheFonz answer really stuck.

P.S: The purpose of the above was to tell you to stop attacking players by calling them stupid or moronic since your play hasn’t been stellar either. And don't start threads out of game in the future either.

"Force Sensitive (Investigate)"

And lastly, while I believe your claim - I think you've got the entire thing wrong. The wording implies that you can investigate if a person is Force sensitive i.e Luke, Vader etc. and is not a confirmation of alignment. Is there any further explanation of this power in your PM or did you just go with the "Investigate" wording = Cop here?

---

FC's reason for voting is much better, especially since he had suspcion yesterday, and this just compounded it.

If its much better, how does it compound the suspicion you have on him?

---

Semi: Do not like your post where you try and say R2 might be scum. He’s a claimed mason with his partner dead. Trying to muddy the waters?

Farside: why aren’t you voting Semi – you sound pretty convinced that he's scum..

[farside22]

(4) Care to elaborate on why you think only town would do something and why scum wouldn't have a reason to do the same thing?

I disagree with you and already explain my views on CMAR. I know you read them so why ask this question?

It could depend on the person or what they say in my view I didnt' see any thing scummy in regards to CMAR, claim, reasoning or views.

[semioldguy]

(4) Care to elaborate on why you think only town would do something and why scum wouldn't have a reason to do the same thing?

I disagree with you and already explain my views on CMAR. I know you read them so why ask this question?

It could depend on the person or what they say in my view I didnt' see any thing scummy in regards to CMAR, claim, reasoning or views.

It's the point you tried to make against me. If you want to make a point, be able to back it up. You seem to think that scum would be incapable of doing what CryMeARiver would do, or at the very least that they would not have any reason to do what they did, and I say that is complete and utter bullshit. There is not any action scum wouldn't do if town would do that action as well.

If you disagree, or still believe what you said, then could you provide in example instead of dodging again? What is something you would have expected town to do but would never think scum could do? Why would scum not ever do it? Don't just say that they wouldn't do it, explain why. Isn't the fact that scum would not be expected to do something a reason in itself that scum would consider wanting to do it?

If it depends on the person, then how is that a valid point against anyone when no player has the same experience with another player as anyone else? How am I supposed to know what CryMeARiver would or wouldn't do? Why would I just take you at your word that CryMeARiver wouldn't do something as scum?

[Slicey]

I don't see a scum modivation for making a claim that early. Do you?

It's not too far of a stretch to believe that with the bounty, CryScum identified you as Town, thus wanted to 'confirm' himself with a 1-shot investigation result. Claiming 1-shot will protect him from ever having to give incorrect reads later on.

This is pretty much what I think. I don't think he's lying about investigating farside, but I'm thinking that he is a (1 shot) scum cop, considering the fact that he also believes in two scum teams, which would then make sense for scum cops to be in this game.

At this time, I don't think farside and CMAR are scum together.

I think CMAR should also full claim.

[Wreck Star]

Semi: Do not like your post where you try and say R2 might be scum. He’s a claimed mason with his partner dead. Trying to muddy the waters?

EXACTLY the thought I had at first.

FoS: sog

[Slicey]

derp just saw the claim. Should read the whole thread before I post >_>

Um... not really sure now.

Unvote.

[danakillsu]

WHY do you think his unsolicited initial claim was scummy?

I never necessarily considered it scummy, just unlikely because Yoda wasn't too powerful in the "second" trilogy. But as soon as I saw the breadcrumbing, I realized even if it wasn't likely it was probably true.

[d3x]

@Mod

- Can we get a prod on VRK? I know it hasn't been quite 5 days, but he hasn't posted D2 at all.

FoS:AGM

[danakillsu]

How would you have guaged the truthiness of his Claim by this info?

Yoda would definitely seem like an investigative role to me, because he is sensitive to others' "feelings". I actually would have believed him more if I didn't have the JOAT thing to think about. Just the investigative role would have been enough to convince me that Yoda was his role.

I'm not liking dana's reaction to this whole situation at all. He's been pushing on CMAR's roleclaim for awhile now. It feels like hidden agenda.

Seriously? A hidden agenda? I gave my reason for a NAME claim. I didn't want a full roleclaim. That is the end of the story. What kind of hidden agenda would I have for wanting to know his role. If I was scum, I would apparently think (see above posts) that Yoda wouldn't be very powerful. So I would probably decide if I didn't know about the JOAT thing NOT to kill Yoda, since he already used his one shot cop thing. So knowing his name probably would have hurt me as scum since I would have assumed something that wasn't true.

[danakillsu]

I think CMAR should also full claim.

derp just saw the claim. Should read the whole thread before I post >_>

And look at this, people. This guy says CMAR should full claim almost two pages after he has. If I'm scummy for saying I don't believe CMAR's claim at the same time that he reveals his breadcrumbing (and I obviously don't think I am), this guy should be ultra-scummy for telling CMAR to claim after he already has (and I obviously don't think he is), since both were just mistakes about what CMAR had already said.

[farside22]

(4) Care to elaborate on why you think only town would do something and why scum wouldn't have a reason to do the same thing?

I disagree with you and already explain my views on CMAR. I know you read them so why ask this question?

It could depend on the person or what they say in my view I didnt' see any thing scummy in regards to CMAR, claim, reasoning or views.

It's the point you tried to make against me. If you want to make a point, be able to back it up. You seem to think that scum would be incapable of doing what CryMeARiver would do, or at the very least that they would not have any reason to do what they did, and I say that is complete and utter bullshit. There is not any action scum wouldn't do if town would do that action as well.

You pointed to one game (which I need to read to see how much truth is behind your stance on this) However you want to know what I did as scum is I fake claimed a results and stated i had an innocent on a townie so when I was lynched they thought he was scum with me due to misguided thoughts like your own.

what I see typically I base things on what I see or have done as scum and your example is not something I ever see. Again I'm using my views on what I have seen scum do just like you are so what is your point exactly?

Farside: why aren’t you voting Semi – you sound pretty convinced that he's scum..

Not convinced just adding to scum list.

[danakillsu]

Not convinced just adding to scum list.

Which is now more than half the players in the game.