Copper is confirmed no gun, what makes him confirmed town? I'll accept he's unlikely to be scum at this point, but that's different from confirmed.SaintKerrigan wrote:Just woke up, but I wanted to comment on this. Copper's confirmed town, so is there any reason why he needs to claim?
Eh, I disagree. The Tracker's claim in that one was for you to say what you did last night 'you know the reason'.charter wrote:Thor, the town motivation for being vague like Kerrigan was is what I showed you in that other game. The tracker caught me without revealing what he did.
Could you explain this quote, considering that you recently said you think Michel is likely town?Pie_is_good wrote:You are ignoring the teensy fact that assuming Michel to be town is a really dumb thing to do.
The flavor at the end of Day 2 indicates that Fate had a gun. The flavor for the nightkills is "shot." Based on this, I think it's safe to assume that the Mafia have guns. Since Copper doesn't have a gun, that means he's not mafia, which makes him cleared town.Thor665 wrote:Copper is confirmed no gun, what makes him confirmed town? I'll accept he's unlikely to be scum at this point, but that's different from confirmed.
See response to Pie. And how did I get labeled as "more or less confirmed town?" I don't consider myself cleared at all. Also, it's interesting that you decry my assertions that only one possible case with Michelscum exists (from someone else's PoV), and then you proceed to make that one case I described.Cyberbob wrote:SK: please cease and desist with these "X IS SCUM ONLY IF Y AND Z ARE TOO" lines of thought. You should know better than to make such definite and absolute calls like that, particularly with all the airs of mafia superstardom you've been adopting. Being more or less confirmed town doesn't confer on you any extra mystical powers of deduction.
You do realize that everyone except for Michel, Sotty, and I have claimed Vanilla Townie, right? So if Michel and I are scum, that leaves 8 Vanilla Townies + 1 Gunsmith vs 1 Mafia Goon + 1 Mafia Tracker + 1 Mafia [Michel's Role]. Doesn't that seem a little unbalanced to you? Col. Cathart is not an incompetent mod, and I don't think he'd release a crappy setup like that on us.Cyberbob wrote:I'm not sure what to make of Michel's claim though the idea of him and SK being in a scumteam together is rolling around in the back of my mind. A scum tracker would certainly have a gun in case they were needed to make a killand SK has been pretty steadfast in her defence of Michel.
This is a ridiculous argument. There are two plausible (in terms of flavor) explanations for why a security guard has a tracker flavor: observing surveillance footage, and following people around. In my case, I observe surveillance footage.Cyberbob wrote:Consider also: she was against the massclaim because "scum tend to claim vanilla" (actually that only applies to regular goons, scum powerroles - particularly trackers - like to claim town versions of their roles) as well as her lie about getting a result on Thor. Her flavourclaim was a security guard at Smith's & Cathart's - lolwut? Why would a security guard be tracker flavour?
Michel made good points regarding the gunclaim and refuted my objections to it. How is this "suddenly capitulating?"Cyberbob wrote:She was also against the gunclaim at first until suddenly capitulating... to a post from Michel.
So you think I'd rather do nothing and let myself get lynched without a fuss? I switched to my other scum candidate of the day because at the time I made the post he had more votes than Fate, and I was interested in procuring a lynch (other than my own). After I posted the updated page showed Michel voting Fate and other people potentially doing so, so I switched back.Cyberbob wrote:One thing to note is that her and Fate were both going at each other pretty hard before he got lynched. The funny thing is that most of it revolves around her claim: the rest is hysterical appeals to emotion like "die scum die" and "you're going to regret those words". Despite all this she still saw fit to switch her vote to Pie because "it doesn't look like we're moving toward a Fate lynch".
Difference between "likely town" and "assumed town" is the same as the difference between "town read" and "cleared." I would treat a confirmed townie very differently than someone I just generally didn't want to vote for.SK wrote:Could you explain this quote, considering that you recently said you think Michel is likely town?
a) My two mafia pet peeves are when people trust their read over hard facts and when people fall into the trap where you read everything your target says as scummy no matter what. Charter managed to trip both of them with that last post.SK wrote:@ Pie: The difference in tone between your posts 1113 and 1117 is considerable. I'm curious to know what inspired you to write 1117 in the tone that you did.
Pretty much everyone is buying into your claim, so yeah - in the eyes of most people I would say that you are more or less cleared. These people are being dumb.SaintKerrigan wrote:See response to Pie. And how did I get labeled as "more or less confirmed town?" I don't consider myself cleared at all.
Nice attempt at being vaguely threatening with that "it's interesting" line. You know who usually tries that one? Scum.SaintKerrigan wrote:Also, it's interesting that you decry my assertions that only one possible case with Michelscum exists (from someone else's PoV), and then you proceed to make that one case I described.
I'm not in the habit of secondguessing game balance, particularly based on a source as information as the other players in the game.SaintKerrigan wrote:You do realize that everyone except for Michel, Sotty, and I have claimed Vanilla Townie, right? So if Michel and I are scum, that leaves 8 Vanilla Townies + 1 Gunsmith vs 1 Mafia Goon + 1 Mafia Tracker + 1 Mafia [Michel's Role]. Doesn't that seem a little unbalanced to you? Col. Cathart is not an incompetent mod, and I don't think he'd release a crappy setup like that on us.
lolSaintKerrigan wrote:Regarding the bolded, how does my defense of Michel mean that we are scumbuddies? How is this different from the behavior of two townies who trust each other?
Or you're scum.SaintKerrigan wrote:This is a ridiculous argument. There are two plausible (in terms of flavor) explanations for why a security guard has a tracker flavor: observing surveillance footage, and following people around. In my case, I observe surveillance footage.
The suddenness with which you backed down and the fact that it was totally without reservation really felt off. The fact that it was to Michel of all people was just icing on the cake.SaintKerrigan wrote:Michel made good points regarding the gunclaim and refuted my objections to it. How is this "suddenly capitulating?"
Cyberbob wrote:One thing to note is that her and Fate were both going at each other pretty hard before he got lynched. The funny thing is that most of it revolves around her claim: the rest is hysterical appeals to emotion like "die scum die" and "you're going to regret those words". Despite all this she still saw fit to switch her vote to Pie because "it doesn't look like we're moving toward a Fate lynch".
yer i totaly sed dat u shuldnt do nething!!!111SaintKerrigan wrote:So you think I'd rather do nothing and let myself get lynched without a fuss? I switched to my other scum candidate of the day because at the time I made the post he had more votes than Fate, and I was interested in procuring a lynch (other than my own). After I posted the updated page showed Michel voting Fate and other people potentially doing so, so I switched back.
I don't have all the other points of scumminess against me that you do, and my attack on Fate actually had some substance to it besides.SaintKerrigan wrote:How is this different from you switching from Fate to me in order to procure a lynch, and then switching back when more votes landed on him?
Scum are 1000000000000000000000000x more likely to buddy another player (whether that other player is town or scum) than town. You are scummier in your own right than Michel, therefore you are my initial target.SaintKerrigan wrote:RayFrost's stuff I can't defend against, and the Michel-me buddying has not been proven to be scum-generated. You haven't even tried to prove the other half of the equation, the case for Michelscum.
My entire train of thought is laid out in the post where I did the list of claims. I started out with the idea of SK being scum and took a look at some things and some posts and some stuff - that post is essentially stream-of-consciousness (as are a lot of my posts to be honest - it gets me into a bit of hot water re: consistency but I rarely have the time or inclination to fully keep track of of a game's entire series of events).Thor665 wrote:You're putting me in an interesting pickle, because the possibility of Kerriganscum is very appealing to me since it would justify everything I've done thus far. However, I'm curious as to how you have fluctuated so much to have been voting for me (and I believe the case of voting for me is largely predicated on a belief that Kerrigan is town and thus I was dodging her) to now voting for Kerrigan?
As of right now I would say not, but a lot hinges on SK's flip if she is lynched.Thor665 wrote:Am I still second most likely scum to you/ If so, how do you justify that considering you're also voting Kerrigan (i.e. what is the Kerriganscum/Thorscum connection?). If I am no longer suspicious to you, what has changed to affect that?
Well, I can't speak for how other people view me.Cyberbob wrote:Pretty much everyone is buying into your claim, so yeah - in the eyes of most people I would say that you are more or less cleared. These people are being dumb.
So how was that threatening in any way? And nice job trying to paint that statement as scummy.Cyberbob wrote:Nice attempt at being vaguely threatening with that "it's interesting" line. You know who usually tries that one? Scum.
Intentional dismissal of the point without actually addressing it noted.Cyberbob wrote:I'm not in the habit of secondguessing game balance, particularly based on a source as information as the other players in the game.
(by the way I'm not going to fall for that little IF U DISAGREE UR INSULTAN CATHART!!! "trap")
Prove it.Cyberbob wrote:Or you're scum.
So what was I supposed to do, argue against something that I had no longer had a valid reason to object to? People can change their minds, y'know. The fact that it was Michel who made the points for the gunclaim is irrelevant. I was responding to the points themselves, not the person who made them.Cyberbob wrote:The suddenness with which you backed down and the fact that it was totally without reservation really felt off. The fact that it was to Michel of all people was just icing on the cake.
You imply that my vote on Pie was uncalled for. What was your "acceptable alternative" for what I should've done in that situation, since you clearly think I should've done something different?Cyberbob wrote:yer i totaly sed dat u shuldnt do nething!!!111
And yes, mindless self-preservation votes like that are very anti-town. The fact that you switched back immediately is not relevant to your mindset while you were making that initial post.
Whether you were less scummy than I or not has no bearing on the scumminess of the action in question. And how does your case on Fate have "more substance" than mine (since that is what you are implying)? If it does, why did you switch to me in the first place?Cyberbob wrote:I don't have all the other points of scumminess against me that you do, and my attack on Fate actually had some substance to it besides.
Odds do not definitively prove anything. Show why my buddying with Michel is scum-driven instead of town-driven. And if you're going to present a case for a Michel-SK scumteam, shouldn't you really try to prove thatCyberbob wrote:Scum are 1000000000000000000000000x more likely to buddy another player (whether that other player is town or scum) than town. You are scummier in your own right than Michel, therefore you are my initial target.
As already stated; I like it insomuch as it would help justify my own attitudes towards you from earlier, and I do believe that your Tracker claim is, at best, only potentially clearing of you since I could still see it as a scum fakeclaim which had to claim roleblock after I didn't acquiesce to your fishing on me.SaintKerrigan wrote:@ Thor: Do you agree with Cyberbob's case on me? Why or why not?
welp looks like someone is happy with their ~incisive mindreading~ skillzThor665 wrote:but I feel really isn't. He just opened up a post commenting that he now suspects you and Michel.
Maybe I'm just reading this funny, but why do you feel your attitudes towards me need justification? If you think they're valid, shouldn't that be enough in your eyes? I do agree that the Tracker claim does not fully clear me.Thor665 wrote:As already stated; I like it insomuch as it would help justify my own attitudes towards you from earlier, and I do believe that your Tracker claim is, at best, only potentially clearing of you since I could still see it as a scum fakeclaim which had to claim roleblock after I didn't acquiesce to your fishing on me.
Oh hey, look, he left out Pie. I wonder why...Cyberbob wrote:hurfadurfablurf lookan for lynch optans itp (in tp (this p (post))) [/b]Unvote Vote charter unvote vote copper unvote vote michel unvote vote thor unvote vote socrates unvote vote cyberbob unvote
