Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Seraphim]

Unvote
Vote: Sando

I can go after Nick tomorrow.

[Ojanen]

Situation Richard 7 -

bv

5 -

Pom

4
2 days to deadline D1.
Seraphim and Zito make noises against bv. And:

bv310 or Pom. Lets pick one and go. Sando's post makes me feel richard is more likely VI or third party. That last post really struck in a negative way on him..

Immediate reply:

I don't really get the Pom case. ISO has been down for me though..... meh.

Unvote Vote bv

+townpoints to Richard.

Situation when bv claimed vanilla

RichardGHP (4) --

Porochaz

, Faraday,

bv310

,

Pomegranate

bv310

(10) --

Papa Zito

, Seraphim, Espeonage, curiouskarmadog,

Anon

, RichardGHP, NickF227, boberz,

farside22

, Sando
Seraphim (1) -- Javert
boberz (1) -- dybeck

Pomegranate

(4) -- Albert B. Rampage, Jahudo, Amished,

Ojanen

Vanilla claim=resigned scum.
There was certainly some buswork done.
My ?-list coincides with Sando, boberz, ckd.
Taking out Richard for the swing of the above vote.
If scum on Pom-wagon, look at Amished.

[Patrick]

Votecount

NickF227 (2) -- Espeonage, Sando
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- NickF227, curiouskarmadog
Sando (7) -- Amished, Jahudo, dybeck, RichardGHP, Javert, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim
Espeonage (2) -- Faraday, farside22

Not voting: Ojanen, boberz
15 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 16th of May

[boberz]

3.)

Ojanen and boberz, why aren't you voting for somebody?

IN my case because I have lost myself in this game because i am so busy atm. Will get free on friday afternoon and then will be able to committ more time to the game. It doesnt help that recently whenever i do have half an hour or so I am unable to log on which makes me frustrated

[Ether]

Don't mind me, just trying to fix the issue with posts not showing. Patrick, you might not want to delete this--maybe we can edit it for flavor later or something.

[Ojanen]

Posts are showing now to me again. And Sando is at L-1, btw.

[curiouskarmadog]

javert,

did you see my points about ABR....to say that Sando is secondary target (or whatever you said) seems to be putting my stance lightly. right now, I think ABR is scummier than Sando....and I think Sando is scummier than the rest (that is saying alot). I am fine with the Sando lynch, but would rather pressure ABR....Deadline isnt for another 16 days, so I see no point in voting sando (to hammer now?). I think ABR actions Day 1 and Day 2 are quite scummy, your thoughts on those actions?

your posts (about Sando and my interactions) bother me in the fact that they are meaningless if he flips town....it looks like Sando will be the lynch today..you have suggested what it looks like if he flips scum...what if he flips town, what does that say about me? Scum?...town?...nothing?...

[Espeonage]

In light of 1376 I really feel like hammering. Sando claim please.

[farside22]

OJ: I don't remember what Sando said that got me on that. I think it was his push on richard over bv. I would have to look at what was said during that time to really remind me what it was.

Again I just don't see scum defending scum but I do acknowledge at the time he voted bv it came off really scummy as he was still pushing for richard. It's that one thing that keeps me going back and forth on.
I still think Esp vote was scummier

[Ojanen]

javert,

From the continuation, I think you mean me.

did you see my points about ABR....to say that Sando is secondary target (or whatever you said) seems to be putting my stance lightly. right now, I think ABR is scummier than Sando....and I think Sando is scummier than the rest (that is saying alot). I am fine with the Sando lynch, but would rather pressure ABR....Deadline isnt for another 16 days, so I see no point in voting sando (to hammer now?). I think ABR actions Day 1 and Day 2 are quite scummy, your thoughts on those actions?

secondary target=you think ABR is scummier, that's quite simple and true.
talking about hammering as reasoning for rather pressuring ABR is stupid cause it's not why you're on ABR, you thought ABR was scummier since the beginning of the day when there were 2 votes on sando and 1 on ABR. And I myself don't even have a vote out yet cause I'm just getting into the game again for D3. I don't want a hammer yet.
it is the overall mutual pattern and your attack yesterday that prompted me to even mention my thought.

As to seeing your points on ABR, yeah (you might have more somewhere, quick search now)

He jumped off of scum's wagon Day 1 swinging to votes around to Richard, luckily we were still able to lynch scum, against his distractions.

farside22

(2) -- Albert B. Rampage, boberz
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- Amished, dybeck
RichardGHP (7) --

Porochaz

, Faraday, Sando, Jahudo,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

Sando (1) -- Javert
Faraday (1) -- RichardGHP

bv310

(6) --

Papa Zito, Anon

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog

farside22

(1) -- boberz
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- Amished, dybeck
RichardGHP (7) --

Porochaz

, Faraday, Sando, Jahudo,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

Sando (1) -- Javert

bv310

(8) --

Papa Zito, Anon

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP, Albert B. Rampage
Espeonage (1) --

Ojanen

farside22

(1) -- boberz
Albert B. Rampage (1) -- Amished
RichardGHP (8) --

Porochaz,

Faraday, Sando, Jahudo,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

, Javert

bv310

(7) --

Papa Zito, Anon

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP
Espeonage (2) --

Ojanen

, dybeck

Pomegranate

(1) -- Albert B. Rampage


Albert B. Rampage (1) -- Amished
RichardGHP (9) --

Porochaz

, Faraday, Sando, Jahudo,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

, Javert, boberz

bv310

(7) --

Papa Zito, Anon

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP
Espeonage (2) --

Ojanen

, dybeck

Pomegranate

(1) -- Albert B. Rampage



Albert B. Rampage (1) -- Amished
RichardGHP (7) --

Porochaz

, Faraday,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

, Javert, boberz

bv310

(7) --

Papa Zito, Anon

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP
Espeonage (2) --

Ojanen

, dybeck
dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Jahudo, Albert B. Rampage

Albert B. Rampage (1) -- Amished
RichardGHP (6) --

Porochaz

, Faraday,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

, boberz

bv310

(8) --

Papa Zito, Anon

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP, Albert B. Rampage
Espeonage (2) --

Ojanen

, dybeck
dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (1) -- Jahudo

Porochaz

(1) -- Javert

RichardGHP (6) --

Porochaz

, Faraday,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

, boberz

bv310

(7) --

Papa Zito

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP, Albert B. Rampage
Espeonage (1) --

Ojanen

dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Jahudo,

Anon

Porochaz

(1) -- Javert
Seraphim (1) -- Amished
boberz (1) -- dybeck

RichardGHP (7) --

Porochaz

, Faraday,

bv310,

NickF227,

Pomegranate

, boberz, Albert B. Rampage

bv310

(6) --

Papa Zito

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP
Espeonage (1) --

Ojanen

dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Jahudo,

Anon

Porochaz

(1) -- Javert
Seraphim (1) -- Amished
boberz (1) -- dybeck

RichardGHP (7) --

Porochaz

, Faraday,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

, boberz, Albert B. Rampage

bv310

(5) --

Papa Zito

, Seraphim, Espeonage,

farside22

, curiouskarmadog
Espeonage (1) --

Ojanen

dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Jahudo,

Anon

Seraphim (2) -- Amished, Javert
boberz (2) -- dybeck, RichardGHP

RichardGHP (6) --

Porochaz

, Faraday,

bv310

, NickF227,

Pomegranate

, boberz

bv310

(4) --

Papa Zito,

Seraphim, Espeonage, curiouskarmadog
Espeonage (1) --

Ojanen

dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Jahudo,

Anon

Seraphim (2) -- Amished, Javert
boberz (2) -- dybeck, RichardGHP

Pomegranate (2)

-- farside22

, Albert B. Rampage

There.
That's the full snapshot of bv-relevant ABR from the stuff.
He jumped on bv, off bv, on bv, off bv to competing wagon and off that competing wagon of bv just before deadline.
ABR's voting is ambiguous, but I don't get the feel you're actually trying to examine the full context rather than taking out a bit from somewhere (he helped tipped the scale from richard to bv in the first place for the vote you're isolating, for instance).

Yesterday he pushed from a FUCKING HIDER lynch after it was obvious that the hider should be around at least to confirm some people...He is not helpful and he has not done ONE FUCKING PROTOWN THING...

As did at least Amished, Anon, Richard and Seraphim too.
You thought you had hammered Pom post-claim for a sec.
I guess I'm trying to say I'm not seeing much depth in how you seem to read the game.
I have ABR as slight town currently. I'm mainly trying to read him based on meta, whether he feels sufficiently real based on my experience of him. Jury's still quite much out but I'm not terribly uncomfortable with him for now. If there's ever anyone that would push for a claimed pr lynch as town too, it would be ABR, so I'm not taking that as a huge alignment tell for him.

your posts (about Sando and my interactions) bother me in the fact that they are meaningless if he flips town....it looks like Sando will be the lynch today..you have suggested what it looks like if he flips scum...what if he flips town, what does that say about me? Scum?...town?...nothing?...

Right now it's more like I dislike you quite much more than Sando actually. I'd vote you rather than Sando, and thenI pointed out a curious pattern.
If Sando is town, it makes you very slightly more town for a detail I'll elaborate on a later date.
But I need to get more back in this game, to actually iso some.


@ESP:
I

wrote

1376 and it doesn't make me want to hammer yet. Why does it make you itch?

[Ojanen]

@farside: Can you specify to which point/post 1383 is an answer to?

[farside22]

@farside: Can you specify to which point/post 1383 is an answer to?

1376 I thought you were asking what I was talking about there *shrug*

[Ojanen]

I was highlighting the townpoints to Richard for the bv steering. But good thing actually, I should go and check Sando on that part again.

[Seraphim]

Esp: why does 1376 make you feel like hammering?

[Espeonage]

Second to last vote on a wagon is in theory meant to be the scummiest. If you look at that votecount with the idea of sando as scum it makes sense as seemingly perfect bus. People have accepted the wagon and have given it support so you jump on just before the hammer so everyone is thinking about mr hammer over the night and not paying attention to your L-2 bus.

[curiouskarmadog]

drinking post...OJ I did mean you..will read the words later.

[Javert]

1.)

I was just doing some laundry and thinking about this game when it occurred to me that if Papa Zito took a shot on Night One, he probably tried to kill Pomegranate but failed because Pomegranate was hiding. One of Papa Zito's last posts even says that Pomegranate is the scummiest person on mafiascum.

I thought I would share this forehead-slapping moment. It seems very obvious to me in retrospect, and I wish I had thought of it yesterday as a reason for not lynching Pomegranate.

2.)

I might have to reread Espeonage at some point. I have been thinking he is probably town (as I explained somewhere during Day Two), but these last few posts from him are very much “shake-my-head-and-groan” posts.

Espeonage, the fact that Sando was the first player to put bv310 at L-1 has been readily apparent since Day One. Claiming that

that

is your reason for having an “itch” to hammer is pretty weak when there are several players who have actually posted

cases

against Sando. You are merely tossing in a voting placement tell instead of actually saying what in your opinion makes Sando's posting scummy.

Would you mind detailing other reasons you have for suspecting Sando? Please use your own words instead of quoting others' posts.

[dybeck]

Whilst I like the Sando lynch very much, I fear that there is a pattern developing here, whereby somebody posts a case against somebody, and the next few pages are "Oh yes, that person is definitely scum" posts that lead us into a lazy lynch.

There are too many sheep here, and not all of them are scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There are too many sheep here, and not all of them are scum.

Who is sheep? Esp? Who else?

[Jahudo]

A Sando claim would be nice...


@boberz:

IN my case because I have lost myself in this game because i am so busy atm. Will get free on friday afternoon and then will be able to committ more time to the game. It doesnt help that recently whenever i do have half an hour or so I am unable to log on which makes me frustrated

I don't think you've given an opinion on Sando yet. If that's correct, then you really should do it now. Do you like the points dybeck was pressing on Sando, or were you saying that he looked like a proactive town for going after someone regardless of how you felt about Sando?

It seems odd you're not voting for someone yet, given how recent some of your suspicions on people have been. Who looks scummier to you: Faraday or Richard? Is it possible that Espeonage is still scum, now that Pom has flipped town?

[Faraday]

I think Espeonage is more likely to be scum than Sando at this venture.

If there are people willing to hammer however he should probably claim.

[Amished]

I noticed something was said about my interaction with ckd:

There were people being prodded, and the thread was absolutely dead. I saw a statement that I wanted clarified and it didn't happen. With it being so dead, it doesn't really seem that hard to do a quick iso and say something along the lines of .. whatever, really. Just to get an opinion out there, I know there are people who I haven't directly commented on but if asked I'd take a quick look and tell you how it stood if I had the time sit at my computer and refresh to see if there was a response to my post.

[boberz]

@boberz:

IN my case because I have lost myself in this game because i am so busy atm. Will get free on friday afternoon and then will be able to committ more time to the game. It doesnt help that recently whenever i do have half an hour or so I am unable to log on which makes me frustrated

I don't think you've given an opinion on Sando yet. If that's correct, then you really should do it now. Do you like the points dybeck was pressing on Sando, or were you saying that he looked like a proactive town for going after someone regardless of how you felt about Sando?

It seems odd you're not voting for someone yet, given how recent some of your suspicions on people have been. Who looks scummier to you: Faraday or Richard? Is it possible that Espeonage is still scum, now that Pom has flipped town?

I dont really get the sando case tbh but I am sure one exists I dont ahve time ot read back yet. I think dybeck looked more towny (still dont like him let me make that clear) for pressing on sando there. But I liked sando's response at first and only glance.

I am on 15 hour days atm I just cannot committ to read properly until friday.

[dybeck]

There are too many sheep here, and not all of them are scum.

Who is sheep? Esp? Who else?

I think that both the bv and Pom wagons, along with the monster Richard wagon Day 1 and the Sando wagon today, have been largely pushed by lazy town who haven't really been examining all options.

I'm not sure it's hugely harmful as long as there's a good reason for the wagon getting off the ground in the first place (as there was, apparently, with bv on Day 1, and I believe that there is, today, with Sando) - but we might well have not lynched a PR yesterday if more people were working harder to find scum.

[Amished]

So what do you feel you were doing to actively scumhunt (specifically yesterday) to lead us away from a power role?