Star Wars Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #800 (ISO) » Sun May 09, 2010 6:50 pm

Post by Kdub »

Vote Count

d3x (0)
-
farside22 (0)
-
wolframnhart (0)
-
ooba (0)
-
Kast (0)
-
Toon Fighter (1)
- Scott Brosius
ReaperCharlie (0)
-
Dragon Phoenix (0)
-
Slicey (1)
- Toon Fighter
LynchMePls (0)
-
AlmasterGM (0)
-
Scott Brosius (3)
- LynchMePls, bv310, d3x
danakillsu (0)
-
FC Groningen (0)
-
semioldguy (7)
- Slicey, wolframnhart, ooba, Dragon Phoenix, AlmasterGM, farside22, ReaperCharlie
Kthxbye (0)
-
bv310 (0)
-
No Lynch (0)
-
Not Voting (5)
- Kast, danakillsu, FC Groningen, semioldguy, Kthxbye

17 votes available, 9 votes needed to lynch

Deadline is June 5, ~10 am PDT
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Mafia - 17-player large theme, currently needs (0) replacements
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Post Post #801 (ISO) » Sun May 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Post by d3x »

I would also recommend Claiming, sog. You're at L-2 atm.
Honest is easy, fiction's where genius lies.

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Post Post #802 (ISO) » Sun May 09, 2010 7:00 pm

Post by ReaperCharlie »

d3x wrote:Regarding the Scum Group{s}, I find it interesting that both of the Scum that have thus far flipped are bounty hunters {although one is 3rd party and one is Scum}. I'm not willing to write off 2 Scum Groups, but I'm not down for more speculation. It only serves to distract the Town and we'll hopefully find out soon enough anyway.
1. Ok, please explain how are you gonna have a Star Wars (ep IV-VI) game and NOT have Vader and the Emperor be THE bad guys? lol

2. How do you explain the differing kill types (stabbed in the back, chopped in half, etc), esp when vibroblades are from tatooine as someone said. unless vader is an SK and the only scumgroup is bounty hunters (which I don't believe), then that doesn't make sense. Chopping people in half fits Vader, he chopped Obi-Wan in half in Episode IV. Wreck says he tracked SoG to THC, and THC was chopped in half. Therefore if Wreck was telling the truth at ALL, then SoG is likely Vader, and I don't see why you aren't voting for SoG.

FoS: d3x


It seems pretty obvious to me... and I think to a lot of other people too. You seem to be stalling (poorly), which is pretty suspicious especially at this point.
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Post Post #803 (ISO) » Sun May 09, 2010 7:33 pm

Post by d3x »

@RC-
1. Where did I say that Vader and the Emperor aren't in this game/aren't the bad guys? I believe I
specifically
argued against them not being here/not being Scum a while ago {see p518}.

2. Huh? I'm not getting what you're getting at. I'm refusing to waste time speculating thus I'm arguing against the Empire being Scum? I'm not following you at all.
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Post Post #804 (ISO) » Sun May 09, 2010 8:20 pm

Post by d3x »

Also include this in the above point 1.
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Post Post #805 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 3:05 am

Post by LimMePls »

Checking in for the day.
ReaperCharlie wrote:
d3x wrote:Regarding the Scum Group{s}, I find it interesting that both of the Scum that have thus far flipped are bounty hunters {although one is 3rd party and one is Scum}. I'm not willing to write off 2 Scum Groups, but I'm not down for more speculation. It only serves to distract the Town and we'll hopefully find out soon enough anyway.
1. Ok, please explain how are you gonna have a Star Wars (ep IV-VI) game and NOT have Vader and the Emperor be THE bad guys? lol

2. How do you explain the differing kill types (stabbed in the back, chopped in half, etc), esp when vibroblades are from tatooine as someone said. unless vader is an SK and the only scumgroup is bounty hunters (which I don't believe), then that doesn't make sense. Chopping people in half fits Vader, he chopped Obi-Wan in half in Episode IV. Wreck says he tracked SoG to THC, and THC was chopped in half. Therefore if Wreck was telling the truth at ALL, then SoG is likely Vader, and I don't see why you aren't voting for SoG.

FoS: d3x


It seems pretty obvious to me... and I think to a lot of other people too. You seem to be stalling (poorly), which is pretty suspicious especially at this point.
Look up a few posts and you'll note that d3x thinks we shouldn't quick lynch. If he feels that way then not putting his vote on SOG makes perfect sense. If he claimed he didn't want a quick lynch but then put his vote on SOG anyways THAT would seem scummy to me.

We have plenty of time, is there any reason we would want to speed things up?
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Post Post #806 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 3:50 am

Post by farside22 »

d3x: I typically see scum with factions if there is more then one scum group. Why would we have a flip without a faction if there was more then one scum group?

Also I orginally thought based on N1 that total may have been killed by a vig (yes I have seen 2 vigs before in a game). But since the same method killed CMAR last night Vig is off the list and we have SK/Mafia kill.
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Post Post #807 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 4:03 am

Post by AlmasterGM »

d3x wrote:2. Huh? I'm not getting what you're getting at. I'm refusing to waste time speculating thus I'm arguing against the Empire being Scum? I'm not following you at all.
I don't see the benefits of refusing to speculate. The game is read entirely different if there are multiple scum groups. Doesn't ignoring that possibility and calling it a distraction make it more difficult to analyze interactions?
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Post Post #808 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 4:13 am

Post by d3x »

Why would we have a flip without a faction if there was more then one scum group?
Dunno. I like playing 'out guess the Mod' almost as much as I like setup speculation {which is ultimately the same game}. I don't really see much worth in it. If you'd really like to debate the matter, I suggest you talk with those hell bent on believing there are 2 Scum Groups. I just said I'm not ruling out the possibility.

How do you feel about a Quick Lynch {I don't like it}? Do you think it's more beneficial to the Town than actual discussion {I do not, I believe it stifles conversation}? Do you think the bounty of sog is playing a role in the speed of this wagon {I definitely do and am worried about it}? Do you feel that it is having a positive or negative effect on the Wagon {negative, everyone is gunning for that shield}? What do you think of Scott's TF Vote {I don't like it, though I'm not a fan of TF's Slicey Vote either}?

Preview Edit:

@AGM- I don't see the benefits
to
speculate on setup. ScumHunting is ScumHunting whether you have 1, 2 or 5 Scum Groups. I believe looking for connections and interactions before concrete confirmation of multiple ScumGroups is ultimately less beneficial than ScumHunting. I also believe that prematurely, it is very distracting in a game like this. Too many people are only too eager to nerd out about what Groups could potentially be out there.

Once a second faction is flipped, looking into connections will be much more beneficial, imo. This of course does not include looking for connections to known Scum.
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Post Post #809 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 4:32 am

Post by farside22 »

I'm not big on quick lynches but I believe completely that SOG is scum.

I do need to look into wreck star more and see what comes up as scum partners. Right now I don't like Dragon of Phoenix the most. All of his post have been pretty blah. He goes after a lurker. Then just makes a blantant statement with nothing else to add.
But I think those talking about 2 scum groups need to explain better why they still believe this.
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Post Post #810 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 4:43 am

Post by semioldguy »

I'm Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master and powerful with the force.

Abilities:
Bodyguard - During night phases I can choose a player and will attempt to protect them. If successful, I prevent any night kill actions on that player, but if they are targeted for night kills, it kills me instead.
Force Ghost - During the first night following my death I can choose a player. If that person belongs to the Rebel Alliance, they will either be able use two abilities or one ability twice that night.

On the first night I protected Kast and the second night I protected bv310. Both for being claimed power roles.
I'm such a good lover because I practice a lot on my own.
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Post Post #811 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:01 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

The main reasons I think there are two scum groups are as follows:

1. After Wreck Star/Greedo was lynched, there was yet another vibroblade killing. This does
not
mesh correctly flavor-wise with the Empire. See link for vibroblades below. This would indicate another member of Wreck Star's scum group making the killing, which
would
make sense flavor-wise.

2. bv310 identified Wreck Star/Greedo as 'evil'. Nothing about being a tracker is in and of itself 'evil' so I would say either Greedo was able to NK as well, or had a wincon that was somehow evil. This would not make sense with his after-death post of 'this helps both town wincon and my own wincon', so the only explanation that I see is that he was on an opposite scum team, and that killing SoG (who he thinks/thought is scum) would help both his (faction's) wincon and the town's wincon, because SoG was in the other scumgroup. Take this for what you will. Thus is my train of thought.

Those are my reasons. But then... I keep going back to thinking of that Obi Wan line in A New Hope where he is talking about Mos Eisley:
"you will never find a more wretched hive of
scum
and villainy"
, and that makes me wonder whether flavorwise/setupwise it makes sense that Greedo was alone, and was able to kill by himself. That would definitely explain the 'scum' part of his flip, but due to the second vibro-blade killing, I think any speculation evaporates because there are apparently still Tatooine killers out there. This would make total sense if there was a Jabba faction, and the bounties would make sense too.

Reference:

I think anyone who throws out the possibility of two scum groups is either dumb, blind, or scum.


@ d3x: refusing to admit that setup speculation is useful is scummy. Scum
know
way more about the setup than town, therefore they are likely to try to dissuade people from setup speculation. This is the reason my FoS is on you.

@ SoG's claim: If we believe Wreck Star (and we have no reason not to, he was apparently being honest after he was lynched), and we believe that he tracked you to THC, you would have died in place of TwoHeadedCyclops, according to your Bodyguard ability claim. That is,
if
you targeted THC, which you said you didn't. In that post where you said 'I did not target THC'. Therefore we are forced to conclude that either:

a) you're lying (you have every incentive to), and that is a bogus claim;
b) Wreck's lying (he had NO incentive to, he was already dead); or
c) you're both telling the truth, but Wreck's result on you was redirected.

And with my two-scumgroup theory, perhaps the Empire (non-vibroblade/chopped in half flavor) tried to kill whoever was protected last night. You said you targeted bv310 last night, which would make a likely scum target last night, as would CMAR, unfortunately. But again, this would have KILLED you. Who is lying here? I am still inclined to think it's you.
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Post Post #812 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:06 am

Post by semioldguy »

ReaperCharlie wrote:b) Wreck's lying (he had NO incentive to, he was already dead)
Wrong. Why wouldn't a scum player who is already dead try to take another player with them? Why would they want to go down alone?
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Post Post #813 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:12 am

Post by LimMePls »

ReaperCharlie wrote:The main reasons I think there are two scum groups are as follows:

**SNIP**

I think anyone who throws out the possibility of two scum groups is either dumb, blind, or scum.
I'm confused. Are you saying there IS a two scum group? When you say anyone who "throws out the possibility" do you mean any who dismisses the possibility or anyone who suggests it.

@SOG claim: Isn't doc claim like scum 101? I don't want to vote him yet since he is at L-2, but seems suspicious. Would like to hear from wolf/farside/bv on the roleclaim.
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Post Post #814 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:17 am

Post by Kast »

@BV/Lynch-
The RC investigation is good. RC's play has been a bit overly bloodthirsty and at points completely nonsensical. It's helpful to know that it is just his playstyle and not opportunistic scum.

@SoG Claim-
Sounds plausible.

@Scott Brosius, 787-
This post reads like deflection to a n00b wagon. TF *is* playing completely nonsensically, but not inherently scummy.

@Believing WS's Tracker Claim-
Since when is believing caught scum good town play? WS had a guilty result sitting on his head, he had obvious motive to claim anything to get someone else lynched and do whatever dam-con he could. Also, it's entirely possible that he saw SoG taking a night action that did not result in an NK. Naming SoG would then potentially kill a town PR.

That aside, WS couldn't provide a reason for targeting SoG; this makes his claimed result significantly less plausible.

I don't really expect this to stop an SoG lynch, but if SoG flips town, I think we should seriously look at the people on his wagon.

@FS-
When I saw Greedo flip as "scum tracker" instead of "mafia tracker", that actually suggests multiple groups with mod not wanting to clarify exactly who those groups are.

Flavor strongly suggests the Empire as a scum team. Greedo is obviously not part of the Empire and could easily be part of a Jabba/criminal scumteam.
That said I noticed that N1 there was 2 kills and last night there was one. I figure I will be dead with the bounty and I used my OPG on SOG so I'm on the belief he is a SK at this point.
What is OPG? Typo or just my mind completely blanking on the acronym? From the context of the statement, are you claiming a roleblock or something on SoG? If so, then that would be a valid reason for lynching SoG.

@FC-
Minor point, but vibroblades are not Tatooine specific; they are used throughout the SW Galaxy as a superior alternative to regular knives/swords/bladed weapons. They were illegal in most civilized areas, so they are generally weapons for criminals (including Jabba's crew, but also easily available to anyone).

@RC/SoG-
SoG is completely correct. WS was caught scum; he was either getting lynched D2 or D3. Obviously it's better for him to kill a townie and get lynched D3 instead of D2. If he can get a PR killed first, even better. There is absolutely no reason to believe the WS claim.

@Lynch-
Cop claim is scum 101.

Doc claim is done, but it's generally a short-term tactic since suspicion comes quickly when a claimed doc doesn't get NKed. Bodyguard is similar to doc claim but significantly worse as a scum claim since there is even less explanation for why the player remains alive. As a false claim, the player better have a damn good reason for picking suboptimal protection targets.

I really want to hear more from FS.
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Post Post #815 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:29 am

Post by farside22 »

Kast wrote:What is OPG? Typo or just my mind completely blanking on the acronym? From the context of the statement, are you claiming a roleblock or something on SoG? If so, then that would be a valid reason for lynching SoG.
I stated OPG (once per game) because I didn't want to claim what I did till SOG claimed.
I had a once per game role block ability and used it on SOG last night. The lack of one death leans me not to believe SOG to be frank.
Also yes scum can fake claim about his target and what he did. I took the shot in the dark thinking what if WS was telling the truth about his target and what he saw. What if there is just a SK/mafia group and if I'm right I'm stopping one kill going thru.
It was my thought process when I used my OPG RB on SOG last night.
Now there is one less kill that happened and I still believe mafia/SK.
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Post Post #816 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:41 am

Post by Kast »

@FS-
Thanks, that makes for a strong case. I am good with lynching SoG in light of the RB.

I am also taking the bounty at face value. I want BV to get the personal deflector shield as it sounds like some kind of one-shot bulletproof.

If BV can specify a time he will be online, we should coordinate to ensure he gets the hammer (the only danger I see is if SoG considers himself caught scum, he may self-hammer to prevent anyone from getting the Shield).

@SoG-
Please share any final thoughts. Also, if you want to self-vote to allow BV the hammer, that would be awesome. If you are somehow town, it would probably be good to enable BV to use two actions (ie. investigate+use deflector shield).
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Post Post #817 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:49 am

Post by farside22 »

Kast wrote: @SoG-
Please share any final thoughts. Also, if you want to self-vote to allow BV the hammer, that would be awesome. If you are somehow town, it would probably be good to enable BV to use two actions (ie. investigate+use deflector shield).
This ^. I was thinking about this myself and I thought the bounty was going to stay on me throughtout i was going to suggest something like this for the next lynch (providing we found scum) and have someone hammer we know to be town and I was going to suggest one of bv, kast or wolf take it but if it is something bulletproff I agree with bv being the hammer completely.
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Post Post #818 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 7:51 am

Post by ooba »

FS, my views on the 2 scum group are on the previous page.

Unvote


Claim
- Fits flavor wise
- Sounds possible in terms of ability
b) Wreck's lying (he had NO incentive to, he was already dead)
Nope. You are a scum tracker. You know you're going to die.
a) Assuming you have a successful track on somebody, you obviously claim it
b) Assuming you don't your best move is to still claim a successful result. Maybe the town will lynch the other guy over you. If he's scum, you might even live. If town, you at least got one person mislynched. If town lynches you over him, there's a good chance your tracker flip will still get town to lynch the other guy. It's a sub-optimal play to pass it up.

SoG is not our lynch today. Apart from the WS claim, all I had on him was the muddying of waters with him doubting wolf who was a claimed mason. With the Obi-wan claim sounding true, I do think there are better candidates available for today's lynch. Unless
FS wrote:I figure I will be dead with the bounty and I used my OPG on SOG so I'm on the belief he is a SK at this point.
means something. Whats an OPG?
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Post Post #819 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 8:00 am

Post by Kast »

@ooba-
Look up...
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Post Post #820 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 8:02 am

Post by Kast »

Given Ooba's unvote, I'll just vote now instead of waiting.

Vote: SoG
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Post Post #821 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 8:30 am

Post by LimMePls »

I still think Scott is scum, but I'm willing to help work out the bv hammer if necessary. For now my vote stays on Scott, I think he is the next best vote.
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Post Post #822 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 8:31 am

Post by farside22 »

LynchMePls wrote:I still think Scott is scum, but I'm willing to help work out the bv hammer if necessary. For now my vote stays on Scott, I think he is the next best vote.
I looked at WS in iso and I just don't see his vote as scum bussing. I will get you my notes on this soon.
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Post Post #823 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 8:38 am

Post by farside22 »

WS notes in iso:

Town: bv310, wolf, Kast, Charlie

leaning town:
ooba, Scott, danakillsu

leaning scum

Dragon Phoenix, Konowa, FC, Alamaster, d3x, Slicey

Scum: SOG, ToonFighter


WS orginal vote on Scott here
Slight scum read from WS here on Scott post 541

Note this leads me to believe dana not scum with WS post 611 but increases my belief that TF is scum.

Anyone not on the list put under neutral.
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Post Post #824 (ISO) » Mon May 10, 2010 8:47 am

Post by ooba »

Sorry posting problems .. The fact that there was one less kill adds onto SoG's case - doesn't necessary mean scum but with two charges (well, one confirmed charge anyway), its good enough for a lynch ..

Plus if SoG is town, the downside is limited due to the enabling and generator.

I'll vote once bv unvotes ..

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