Mini 969 - Smalltown: Stardust Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2010 1:20 am

Post by ooba »

..] Vote Count [..


Faraday (0)

Kdub (1)
- CallMeLiam
MagnaOfIllusion (4)
- Jack, totallynotmafia, Kdub, Faraday
Mr. Bean (0)

ReaperCharlie (0)

Starbuck (0)

totallynotmafia (2)
- Mr. Bean, Zang
Zang (0)

Jack (0)

charter (1)
- Starbuck
CallMeLiam (1)
- ReaperCharlie
peanutman (1)
- MagnaOfIllusion

Not voting (2)
- charter, peanutman

With 12 alive, 7 to lynch!


V/LAs during the weekend from Liam, charter and peanutman(via PM) noted.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2010 7:37 am

Post by charter »

Had some unexpected time with a computer.
Magna wrote:@ Faraday, charter, zang and peanut – Your thoughts on motivating the Tracker as the best town choice.
I think it's a good idea.

I was going to vote Jack, until I got to Zang...
Jack's points against Magna are garbage. I mean, 'didn't remember the SK's immunities?' makes Magna scum? Reaching to the moon with that one. And then Jack sets up an obviously fake dichotomy where he's town both of the cases. Magna clearly didn't say he's deciding between the only two choices of if Jack believes what he's saying or if Jack is doing a poor job scumhunting. Obviously there's more choices there, like deciding IF Jack believes what he's saying, and if he decides Jack doesn't belive what he's saying, that would make Jack scummy.

Zang's dismissal of the argument as town v town is scummy. Any way you slice it Zang is scummy, whether it is a town v town fight or town v scum or something else. Of course Zang doesn't say why he thinks it's town v town. So my guess is that he knows at least one of them isn't mafia, so it's a really poor attempt at town points if one of them dies.
vote Zang
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2010 9:05 am

Post by Zang »

How can I know him if he is being accused of being a SK?

And I think it's Town vs town because tbhe argument against magna is weak and I see Jack as more of a misguided townie than a scumbag.
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2010 9:06 am

Post by Zang »

Also

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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2010 11:23 am

Post by Faraday »

unvote vote zang
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2010 11:24 am

Post by Faraday »

ugh v/la next 2 days. hopefully no more. shit just came up. sorry. :/
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Sat May 15, 2010 11:36 am

Post by Zang »

Why?
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Sun May 16, 2010 2:21 pm

Post by ReaperCharlie »

Wtf. I was hoping there would be something to read when I got back from V/LA. Very little new content, and what's this? Nobody's posted in over a day? I'm disappointed in you guys =[
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Sun May 16, 2010 3:59 pm

Post by ooba »

Just thought I should point this out:

The Day phase will last 2 weeks starting from the thread unlocking after drafting. The only exception is Day one where it will last 2 weeks + 48 hours. Day also ends in a no-lynch if we have no majority by deadline.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 5:20 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

*waits for people to get more active*

This place was active as heck before the weekend. What happened to you noobs? Come on! Discuss some things with me! This isn't nearly as long as a large theme game and nobody posting just gives the scum a chance to lurk through the day! FFS

*frowns*
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 5:58 am

Post by Kdub »

Zang, what specifically do you feel is weak about the argument against Magna? You just said it without pointing out specific flaws you see in Jack's post.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 8:17 am

Post by charter »

Zang wrote:How can I know him if he is being accused of being a SK?
I don't understand what you're saying here.
Zang wrote:And I think it's Town vs town because tbhe argument against magna is weak and I see Jack as more of a misguided townie than a scumbag.
Ok, I don't buy that you actually think this, but who are you suspicious of then, if you've already ruled out two people?

Charlie, most of your posts are complaining about nothing happening. You're not making anything happen or doing any scumhunting.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 8:39 am

Post by CallMeLiam »

ReaperCharlie wrote:*waits for people to get more active*

This place was active as heck before the weekend. What happened to you noobs? Come on! Discuss some things with me! This isn't nearly as long as a large theme game and nobody posting just gives the scum a chance to lurk through the day! FFS

*frowns*
What would you like us to comment on that you haven't found to comment on? Asking for content isn't content, it's just white noise and doesn't help move a quiet game forward.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 11:02 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

I was on V/LA, and was trying to make time to stay caught up.

I was merely voicing my disappointment that out of the other
eleven
players, I seemed to be the only one to have posted in the last two days, and I was sad that there wasn't actually anything to catch up with =[

Anyways, here's my analysis of what's happened so far:

Jack wrote:If the tracker lacks a better target they should follow the bodyguard. If the bodyguard is scum they will be tempted to go nowhere. The threat of them being tracked may force them to go somewhere, and possibly be killed.
The latter half of this is complete wifom.
Mr. Bean wrote:It's been a while since I've played a game with a CPR Doc. Is the idea to just play like a vig?
That's what I would assume, and had I that role, that's how I would play. If I wasn't sure, I would refrain from using my power for that night, because it's better to have 1 kill than 2, if you're mistaken about your target being scum. Insert wifom here. Even though this is only a mini, the chances of the Mafia and CPR Doc selecting the same person are 1/88 (mafia wouldn't kill other mafia, and doc wouldn't select himself, lowering it from 1/144 to 1/88), so I would say yes, it's best to use your power just a vigilante-style role.
Faraday wrote:I don't think it's going to be very useful to direct actions for the first night. I think a mass action claim day 2 may be potentially useful though, but we should probably wait and see.
Here are the ways that could be useful:

1. It would show who thought whom was scum, based on who targeted whom role powers like CPR Doc(?), Redirector, Tracker, etc.
2. It would show who thought whom was town, based on those who targeted others with role powers like Motivator, Networker(?), etc.

So it would definitely show the scum know who suspected them.

As you said, it could be potentially useful. But that doesn't mean that it couldn't also be potentially harmful. I'm undecided at this point whether that'd be beneficial ENOUGH to warrant using it, because it would almost certainly be of great use to the scum, and I'm against it for this reason.

However, if I'm in the minority in my opinion that we shouldn't do it, and there DOES end up being a mass action-claim like Faraday suggested, it would basically nullify the Tracker role (of course, if you believe everyone, you're stupid, because some are obviously lying), but there is still a way I think the Tracker role could be useful: They could target roles that
don't
have a power that 'targets' or 'visits' any other players (i.e. Commuter, Revivor, Role Absorber, and Vanilla) and if their target 'targets' anyone else, they must be scum.

Of course, there's tons of wifom tied up in this suggestion/situation.

Another complication I thought of as I wrote this: If the the tracker could just claim to have tracked a non-targeting/visiting role (i.e. see above), and said that he tracked them to one of the people who died last night (there can be up to three, with Mafia, SK, and CPR Doc). This would be especially devious but again, insert wifom here.
Mr. Bean wrote:everyone should target me tonight except the scum with their kills obv :D
wifom again. How do we know you're not scum?
CallMeLiam wrote:If a Mafia Absorber were to get my Bodyguard power. would that be bad for the town? Good for the scum, yes. Bad for the SK, yes. Bad for the town?
Again, wifom-ish speculation, but I get a town vibe from this post for some reason.

In the post directly after it:
Jack wrote:That would potentially be good for the town.

It doesn't seem like a useful ability for scum of any kind. I guess the mafia could protect a better powered one of their own, but it doesn't really seem that worth it.
I must have missed this before. Not useful for scum of any kind? If the bodyguard mafia guarded a scumchum with another power who was killed that night, he'd be killed instead, right? Therefore, it'd help the scumteam keep a member with a other powers, and at least they'd have another day to use their other powers. Yes, even as small as it seems, this would help them somewhat.

But wait, it might also help the original killer (SK at least, redirector maybe not so much) because then he'd know that if he killed the same person again the following night (if the first one flipped scum) that he could take out two scum. wifom AGAIN. So maybe you're right, maybe it doesn't really help them.

0_o Maybe disregard that part of my post (?)

Either way, I count
seven
wifom's in my post (now, eight). WTF OOBA, did you do this to us on purpose? it's the only explanation. :P
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 12:32 pm

Post by Faraday »

Woot, catching up.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 12:34 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Work has been a bitch ... will have something to say either later today or tomorrow in the AM EDT.
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Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 12:42 pm

Post by Faraday »

Zang wrote:I think this Jack and magna thing is Town vs Town. I see nothing wrong with magna needing to look back and announcing it isn't really that bad.
Calling something town vs town is generally something I think is bad, unless you've got really good reads on the players. here Zang calls it that, and doesn't really provide any reason why. I think I expressed my willingness to vote him shortly after here.

When he does give his reasoning to me it's very unsatisfactory.

He thinks it's town versus town because...the argument is weak. Okay, he can gets Jack town from this, I don't agree but I guess it's not beyond reasonable.
He thinks Magna is town..why? Because there's a weak case being pushed against him. yer, not buying it at all. If Jack is town pushing a weak case why does it automatically have to be on town, and not scum? Why do you think Magna is town?

I don't like Charlie either. Most of his posts have been content free and fluff. His latest one at a glance looks like a general commentary on the game. I don't see an opinion of if anyone is scummy or not.
Actually he says one of cml's posts are townish, that's it. Will read it again just to be sure but yeh.
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 12:49 pm

Post by Faraday »

ReaperCharlie wrote:
Jack wrote:If the tracker lacks a better target they should follow the bodyguard. If the bodyguard is scum they will be tempted to go nowhere. The threat of them being tracked may force them to go somewhere, and possibly be killed.
The latter half of this is complete wifom.
Uh, well it's speculation based on what might happen. Most things are WIFOM but it's still fairly helpful as it's not something I'd have thought of myself, in all honesty. But yeh I probably won't take that much direction on my tracking, I'll track who I figure most likely to be scum, or who commits the night kill.
However, if I'm in the minority in my opinion that we shouldn't do it, and there DOES end up being a mass action-claim like Faraday suggested, it would basically nullify the Tracker role (of course, if you believe everyone, you're stupid, because some are obviously lying), but there is still a way I think the Tracker role could be useful: They could target roles that
don't
have a power that 'targets' or 'visits' any other players (i.e. Commuter, Revivor, Role Absorber, and Vanilla) and if their target 'targets' anyone else, they must be scum.
Well by mass action claiming there's the chance I may catch scum in a lie if they choose or need to lie about who they targetted, that was my thinking anyway. May not happen, but it could be helpful.
Again, wifom-ish speculation, but I get a town vibe from this post for some reason.
Don't see how this was WIFOM. Bodyguard doesn't help the Mafia or the serial killer at all rly.


Hey RC who's your top suspect at this stage?
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 1:01 pm

Post by ReaperCharlie »

Ok, more now.

@ posts , I too believe that it's suspicious that MagnaofIllusion tried to distance himself from being SK, though that's obviously not a scumtell in and of itself. And while it's not inherently scummy to
not
be familiar with the OP, the way he
did
it struck me similarly to how it struck Jack: somehow it felt... 'off'. I would also say that MoI's avoidance of Jack's questions makes him appear even scummier.

Then there's this:
totallynotmafia wrote:As Mr. Bean said, the only two that are worthwhile motivating are the tracker and the roleblocker. If the tracker is town then obviously that's a big advantage to motivate them and if they are scum then it doesn't really give them an advantage at all, and if they are the SK then they could help the town find scum as well. If the Roleblocker is town then we could possibly defend against both nightkills, if they are scum though they could use the two RBs to their advantage, and the same goes if they are SK, although scum could block the SK and vise versa.

I think out of the two it's probably best to motivate the tracker (provided Faraday isn't acting scummy) as I don't really see any detriment to the town if either scum or SK can track, and also because I agree with what Jack picked up on in Magna's post, that kind of over-explaining strikes me as something that scum/Sk are obliged to do. Magna, why did you have to point out that you were checking if Lord Sept could be tracked in the thread, why the need for the running commentary? It's kind of strange, even stranger that you actually knew what the SKs name was without having to check that.

Vote: MagnaofIllusion
While I agree with this post, and the vote contained in it, something in this post
also
strikes me as 'off'. In this post, TNM sounds like he is looking for
extra
reasons -- that is, in
addition
to what Jack noticed -- to go after MoI. This seems to me like a Mafia member hoping that someone has found out the SK first day, and that his scumteam won't have to spend the whole game trying to find him, and now he's trying to give as many reasons as possible so that everyone will want to lynch him.

Posts , and somewhat de-escalates the intensity at which my scumdar was bloopin', because as Zang points out, this DOES begin to look like town vs town.

Faraday's , and immediately following strike me as odd. It's almost as if he doesn't want to have to account for changing his vote around so fast... so he leaves.

Preview edit: He's back now. Scratch that. Ugh.

@ Jack: What was the point of ?

My opinion is that the Magna/Jack thing may very well be town vs town, and Zang was stating that, so that the Magna vote didn't progress to a quicklynch. That does not appear scummy to me at all that he said that. I will read his posts more later today to see if there is a legitimate underlying scummy tone in his posts.

In conclusion:

FoS: MagnaofIllusion

FoS: totallynotmafia

FoS: Zang


I will probably lay a vote down very soon if discussion progresses considerably in the next day or two. I had originally voted MoI but I changed it to also being an FoS due to Zang's point about this possibly being town v town (which is a completely legitimate caution) and I don't want to be voting and unvoting and stuff until I am more convinced of who is scum and who is not.

There is really not a strong case on anyone at this point. Those who haven't chipped in yet, do so now, or I will begin to turn my attention to you as well.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 1:02 pm

Post by ReaperCharlie »

Yes, I had been fluffing up until now. Until we just left the RVS stage. ^_^

Blast-off!!!!! *toward content-filled posts for all*
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 1:12 pm

Post by Faraday »

My v/la was due to a phone call, I don't fake v/la's or anything of the sort, I can see why it looks odd but it was something that happened unforseen.
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 1:43 pm

Post by Zang »

charter wrote:
Zang wrote:How can I know him if he is being accused of being a SK?
I don't understand what you're saying here.
Zang wrote:And I think it's Town vs town because tbhe argument against magna is weak and I see Jack as more of a misguided townie than a scumbag.
Ok, I don't buy that you actually think this, but who are you suspicious of then, if you've already ruled out two people?

Charlie, most of your posts are complaining about nothing happening. You're not making anything happen or doing any scumhunting.
1.He is being accused of being a SK correct? Well, then how am I supposed to know he is a SK?

2.I never said I rulled them out. I just don't think they are scummy because of what they are being accused of.


I will respond to the other posts directed at me when I have more time.
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 3:32 pm

Post by peanutman »

zang wrote:And I think it's Town vs town because tbhe argument against magna is weak and I see Jack as more of a misguided townie than a scumbag.
First of all, how does magna become town because there's a weak case on him? Second of all, could you please explain how you've concluded that Jack is "more of a misguided townie than a scumbag"? Basically, what specifically makes him misguided, and how does his weak case clear magna of suspicion (for the time being, at least, according to you)?

You seem to be too eager to get cozy in this thread and that's just not gonna fly with me. I'd rather you contribute than just offhandedly declare two people town on a whim and move on (without even addressing or commenting the merits of the discussion in question) .
Vote : Zang


As for the motivator. I'm looking at the four different options and seeing what's best for town.
If used on Roleblocker
: Regardless of the alignment, on N1 with little information at this point, I think we, as town, have an advantage over scum/SK by having more PRs. If we motivate the roleblocker, he could potentially be blocking two townies and thereby reducing some of our advantage (inadvertently if he's town because he would be guessing at who to block, purposely if scum).
If used on Networker
: I would give a slight edge towards town. If the Zang is town, he can reach out to more people and perhaps get/share some extra info. If he's scum though, there's a greater chance of a slip in the private conversations, and the power to influence should be diminished by the fact that all townies should have a healthy skepticism of what Zang says. (By the way, I would be saying this even if my vote wasn't on him/I didn't think he was scummy.)
If used on Role Absorber
: First of all, is any one clear on if the Role Absorber can use two different powers if motivated, or if he can only use the same one twice? If he can use different powers when motivated, I would caution against motivating Mr. Bean because, if scum, he would have a greater selection of powers to use at once with his scumbuddies (greater risk, IMO). If it's the latter (i.e. same power twice), I would evaluate the risk/benefits each night taking into account which PRs left in the game, which powers Mr. Bean has gained, etc (i.e. case by case basis). Regardless though, it wouldn't be effective N1 because he hasn't yet learned any powers.
If used on Tracker
: I think this is the most beneficial for two reasons. A) If we mass-claim our actions on D2, Faraday (claiming last) could be used to gain insight into two previous claims (instead of one). We should be wary of a scum-Faraday, but, at worse, it would invalidate the claims without too much related damage. Also, a town-Faraday could be useful in gaining extra information. Scum-Faraday would have less of an advantage in knowing who targeted who (he wouldn't be trying to figure out people's alignment), so doubling that power wouldn't be much more useful.

Therefore, I think motivating the tracker N1 is most beneficial, and a mass-claim on our actions D2 seems like a good idea right now. However, I think a full discussion on the benefits/risks of this mass-claim should only be done at the start of D2 so we can focus on scum-hunting today.

Will re-read the thread tomorrow and widen my scope of possible scum.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 3:54 pm

Post by ReaperCharlie »

RC's Town List:

peanutman
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Mon May 17, 2010 5:05 pm

Post by Jack »

fos:peanutman


Vote using same reasoning as other people, bunch of IIoA.

tsk tsk: Reaper
for the last post

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