Mini 971: Princess bride - They all lived .......

[Jack]

bv not scumhunting is null tell. Who are you going to vote for now?

[ekiM]

I often ask people to join me in bandwagonning early on in the game. There's no longer a Paramawagon and I see no particular reason to recreate one.

I don't think Parama is innocent, I just don't think he stands out. I see no reason to wagon Parama over wolf.

Let's

vote: wolframnhart

.

And this vote came from what now? Hell saying "Let's vote:" is like you picked someone at random.

@wolf, that's exactly what I was implying.

So you don't have any suspicions and are making random votes on D2 after 6 pages? Not good enough. There is more than enough material for you to start forming opinions. Do so.

---

reaching for reasons to hold onto an RVS vote ofc

Weak. Why would scum have incentive to hold onto a random vote?

Still an open question.

They can't find a better reason to vote so they make stuff up to hold onto the only vote they can.

They can't find a better reason to vote so they make stuff up to hold onto the only vote they can.

Why is scum any more likely to do this than town?

Scum need reasons to push a lynch, regardless of their quality. Their goal is to lynch townies.

The question is: why would scum find it hard to find a reason to move their vote?

*headdesk*

If you agree with fail logic then I have no reason to be arguing with you, because you will just miss the point.

Dodging the question. Answer it.

ML, here's why my point is better than you think it is:

So, Parama. He asks people to vote him at the start so he can OMGUS. That's removing information about whom he chooses to go after. "Let's not worry about the miller claim, we should scumhunt" then... doesn't scumhunt. And spams a page arguing about meta. Fine with this vote.

1. Doesn't even consider that it was an RVS vote

2. Accuses me of not scumhunting even though I was and am scumhunting

3. Didn't spam a page - others started the argument after I brought it up, and it's an argument I've had 100 times and am tired of. Stupid reason

Look at how BS his reasons to vote me are. There's really nothing there.

And this is all the content he provides D1 (I admit, it was short, but still...)

And then in ISO 4 he calls my vote on him OMGUS even though I provided plenty of reasoning to vote him (the same reasoning I

restated

here).

Here were your positive contributions up to that point:

ISO 0-6: nothing
7: I need to scumhunt.
8: Gut says one of the Sens votes is scum. I like my vote for how Jack is acting.
9: Jack is pushing a sensfan lynch without providing reasoning!
10-14: Nothing.
15: Jack, why should we lynch Sensfan?

Summary: one of the Sens voters is scum. Jack is pushing Sens without giving reasons. Zero analysis whatsoever on either point. Since then you've made about 20 more posts to say "I suspect ekiM for suspecting me with reasons I don't like".

You are active lurking, not scumhunting, and it's suspect. You're posting a lot in this game so you must be paying it some attention but I see no evidence you're actually thinking about the game in a critical way and trying to figure out people's motivations.

If you think the amount of content I provided D1 was so low as to be scummy, what do you think of those who provided less? What do you think about the relative content levels people are providing today?

---

bv not scumhunting is null tell. Who are you going to vote for now?

We're not giving bv310 a free pass to not scumhunt.

---

Jack, what were your two "very good reasons" for pushing a lynch on Sens?

[Parama]

If you think I'm active lurking then you obviously don't understand my logic.

[Jack]

We're not giving bv310 a free pass to not scumhunt.

By "we" you mean you and DDD? Why would you say that?

Jack, what were your two "very good reasons" for pushing a lynch on Sens?

Humor me and guess.

[wolframnhart]

Shovel, yesterday you were asking wolframnhart to follow you onto Para. Now you're voting for wolf. What, if anything has changed?

I often ask people to join me in bandwagonning early on in the game. There's no longer a Paramawagon and I see no particular reason to recreate one.

I find this an interesting statement....you see no particular reason to pressure Para?..at all? Huh... Seems pretty early to make such a statement. why is wolf worth a wagon? and do you often ask people to join you bandwagonning early as scum or is this just a town trait??

I think you're misinterpreting me; I don't think Parama is innocent, I just don't think he stands out. I see no reason to wagon Parama over wolf. And I ask both as town and as scum (I do it as scum because I know I do it as town).

@wolf, that's exactly what I was implying.

It's not RVS anymore, even though day 1 went by quick, a real opinion and a real vote is needed at this point and time.

FoS SPS

just not sure if you are scum or VI.

Bv310 unfortunately plays like this as scum or town, i agree lets not give him a free pass, but let's not get caught up on him and let people slip by.

I like ekim's post, his last on specifically, getting good town vibes from him.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

Look, I'd like to have a good reason for a vote right now, but I don't. I'm just a slow starter; my gut needs more to work with. I will "stay in RVS" as long as I need to.

Ckd, I said "misinterpret", not "misrepresent". And my stance on Parama is that Parama is he is about as likely to be scum as an average person.

[farside22]

Vote count:

bv310 (2) ekiM, Debonair Danny DiPietro
wolframhart (1) Steam Powered Shovel
DDD (2) Jack, MacavityLock
ekiM (1) Parama

Not voting:

curiouskarmadog
wolframnhart
Kmd4390
bv310

with 10 alive it will take 6 to lynch
Deadline is June 7, 8:40am

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We're not giving bv310 a free pass to not scumhunt.

By "we" you mean you and DDD? Why would you say that?

Because even if "not scumhunting" is a null tell as you've suggested then we need to get him to contribute or replace out so that we have something we can actually evaluate.

[MacavityLock]

Shovel, there's still an open question to you:

Why ask wnh specifically for the follow?

Reference to Day 1.

@mod

, I am currently voting DDD.

Fixed

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

I just picked someone at random not on the wagon and not Jack.

[ekiM]

If you think I'm active lurking then you obviously don't understand my logic.

I think you're active lurking because you have made 36 posts and said only a handful of things:

Claiming as miller is OK.
My gut says one person on SensFan is scum.
Jack isn't explaining his push on SensFan, and I don't like it.
ekiM's case on me is so bad he just has to be scum.
The scum are Sens, Ani, ekiM.
ekiM's case on me is so bad he just has to be scum.
I don't understand why CKD is asking SPS about me.
I'm not active lurking!

The depth of analysis on any of this is at most wafer-thin. I've not seen a credible attempt at analysis of anyone's motivation for doing anything.

---

As for your logic, it goes something like this:

• ekiM's reasons for suspecting me are terrible.
  
• Scum are more likely to suspect for terrible reasons.
  
• => ekiM is likely scum.

I've pointed out problems with your logic in 176. You just ignored that, preferring to say "well, you just don't understand!". To recap:

• My reasons for suspecting you were sensible.
  
• There's no reason why scum would find it hard to move their vote.
  
• There's no reason why scum can't find plausible suspicions to use.

Try answering.

---

We're not giving bv310 a free pass to not scumhunt.

By "we" you mean you and DDD? Why would you say that?

By "we" I mean the town, collectively. If we give bv310 a free pass to not scumhunt he'll probably use it, and that's bad.

Jack, what were your two "very good reasons" for pushing a lynch on Sens?

Humor me and guess.

"Reactions" is probably one of them. Second might be some reason to suspect him, maybe meta about his reaction to the miller claim or the aftermath.

What were your two "very good reasons" for pushing a lynch on Sens? Why have I had to ask this like five times to get any sort of a response at all, and still not an answer? What are you looking for by asking me to guess?

---

It's not RVS anymore, even though day 1 went by quick, a real opinion and a real vote is needed at this point and time. FoS SPS just not sure if you are scum or VI.

Bv310 unfortunately plays like this as scum or town, i agree lets not give him a free pass, but let's not get caught up on him and let people slip by.

So, whom do you suspect?

Look, I'd like to have a good reason for a vote right now, but I don't. I'm just a slow starter; my gut needs more to work with. I will "stay in RVS" as long as I need to.

Ckd, I said "misinterpret", not "misrepresent". And my stance on Parama is that Parama is he is about as likely to be scum as an average person.

I have sympathy for having trouble getting started, but you need to do more than report that you have no suspicions. Comment on events. Question people. What do you think of what Parama is saying? What Jack is saying? What I'm saying?

You can't just be reactive.

[curiouskarmadog]

oh shit, you DID say misinterpret, not misrepresent....got to reread whole exchange now, when I thought you said misrepresent, I was pissed, even meta-ed (current shared game) you to see if as scum you accused someone of that in the same way.

reading for the win.

will catch up later with the new content.

[Parama]

ekiM, your reasons are ones that *look* good on paper but when you really analyze them they're full of crap logic and are completely false. Those are the types reasons that scum use, btw.

[Kmd4390]

How is putting the third vote on someone right at the start of the game trying to stay in the background?

How is it NOT staying in the background. You just do what is popular and roll with it.

Those were the major things going on, those were the conclusions I drew from them. I wasn't going to pretend to get more out of them than I did.

Conclusions?!? Sorry, but "maybe town but maybe scum, we'll see" isn't a conclusion.

The first complaint that you had about me was that I random voted in a way you didn't like! My random vote might've helped move the game forwards, whereas Parama adopting a purely reactive stance early on seems like an attempt to hide in the foreground to me. Not super-strong, but enough to attract my suspicion, especially when he continues to post a bunch while saying almost nothing.

Ok, don't even try to pretend that my issue with you was "they way you random voted". It was the content of the post and how it went right with what everyone else was doing.

Now you are shifting the argument to say that your post "moved the game forward" and that because Parama didn't do that, I have to suspect him. No.

A "reactive stance" isn't scummy or contrived. It's a natural reaction that most people have. Something comes up that triggers a reaction and, well, there's bound to be that reaction.

In other news, Sens might be scum. Meta.

You can explain that now.

Why? He's already dead and flipped non-town and because he was self-aligned, there's no way I knew that beforehand, so there is no purpose in going further with this. I was right, score one for me. That's all there is to it.

Parama, would you nightkill ani as scum?

Only a vig would kill Animorph, I'd think.

Or scum trying to set up Parama.

Hmm.

I like the little content I’ve seen from KMD as well, but I’m naturally more suspicious of him because he’s capable of deluding himself into thinking other people are scum even when he’s scum himself.

Heh, yeah, you saw me do this perfectly with Percy in that Lovers game.

I will "stay in RVS" as long as I need to.

Um, it's Day 2.

Question for you. Why did the scum kill fail last night? Inactivity by scum? Animorph protected the right person? Something else?

Vote ekiM

-----------------------

Dear Town,

After we lynch ekiM, and the scum kill me tonight, I have a final request. My wish is that you guys lynch Steam-Powered Shovel tomorrow. Don't mourn the loss of me as I've grown ill and would be likely to pass soon anyway. Due to this illness, I've become very aware of the strong value of human life, including lives of those who have made bad choices. However, I must make an exception in Steam's case. The reason for this is that Steam, along with his partner in crime, ekiM, is guilty of conspiracy for murder and a takeover of our wonderful town. I believe in justice and will gladly give my own life for what is right. Do not let these murderer scumbags get away with this wrong doing. Be strong and do what is right after my death. I will be here for the remainder of the day to see to it that ekiM sees the gallows by nightfall.

Yours Truly,

Kmd.

P.S MacavityLock, I want you to have my $10,000 watch.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

Only a vig would kill Animorph, I'd think.

Or scum trying to set up Parama.

Hmm.

Or scum who didn't feel like playing with ani and who didn't have a better kill.

Um, it's Day 2.

Um, it's page 8. Now if we had a lynch we could properly analyse, it would be a different story, but as far as I'm concerned it being Day 2 is a technicality.

Question for you. Why did the scum kill fail last night? Inactivity by scum? Animorph protected the right person? Something else?

If the scum did fail to kill, I would assume it to be role-based. There doesn't appear to be an activity problem in this game and the Night lasted 72 hours.

P.S. Parama is looking a little town now although I don't agree with his stance on ekiM.

DDD, what is your stance on the Parama-ekiM fracas?

[farside22]

prodding bv310

[bv310]

Okay, 1 catchup down, 2 to go.

First up, SPS.

Ckd seems town.

Parama, would you nightkill ani as scum?

Let's

vote: wolframnhart

.

What is the purpose of this question? How is introducing WIFOM into the game on page 8 helpful? Also, if you are suspicious of Parama, why vote for Wolf?

Next up, ekiM. I'm not a fan of his play so far. His calling me out at the start of the day for non-contributing when he has less posts than me is actually quite funny. I'm also a huge fan of his self-evaluation. "what he did say is all reasonable". That plus his IIoA for all of Day 1 and a good part of Day 2 means I'm going to

Vote: ekiM

[wolframnhart]

I can see ekim's claim against you bv310. Ekim may have posted less, but he had one real good post out of his 4 that day here. This next post after that wasn't great but wasn't bad, the other two before that were nothing really.

Your 6 posts were as ekim put were not "game relevant" other then your RVS vote. You talked to Sens about where he/you lived, talked about pastrys and you hate miller claims, then about sens banning that might not have been because the game was "a cluster fuck."

Your quick prod post that contained an OMGUS vote is interesting.

[curiouskarmadog]

work has picked up, dont think i will be able to post until friday or sat, posting in all games.

[Kmd4390]

Or scum who didn't feel like playing with ani and who didn't have a better kill.

Doubtful.

Um, it's page 8. Now if we had a lynch we could properly analyse, it would be a different story, but as far as I'm concerned it being Day 2 is a technicality.

Yes, it's Page 8. Exactly my point. There's been plenty non-RVS.

SK lynch is perfect to analyze. A player who legitimately was non-town was lynched. Perfect person for scum to jump on. I guarantee that at least one scum was on board with the Sens lynch.

[Kmd4390]

vote count:

bv310 (1) wolframnhart
Parama (2), Steam Powered Shovel, ekiM

SensFan

(7) bv310, curiouskarmadog,

animorpherv1

, Jack, Parama, Kmd439,

SensFan

Shovel (1) MacavityLock

Not voting:

Debonair Danny DiPietro

First and last vote generally are less often the scum on a lynch. Also, I know myself to be town. I'm looking at bv, CKD, Jack, and Parama for at least one scum. Which is interesting because I have town reads on all of those players.

[Kmd4390]

^BV's liklihood is lower than CKD, Jack, and Parama. Just realized I wasn't very clear in that.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and Parama having votes from my two biggest suspects means that if I trust my reads, Parama becomes more likely town, leaving Jack and CKD.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, what is your stance on the Parama-ekiM fracas?

I still think Mike is town, but I'm now inclined to believe its a town/town fight. Mostly because Mike noted Parama's ridiculous rate of posting which even when its low content I find scum have a general disinclination to do.

Oh and bv310 sheeps onto the biggest wagon that wouldn't have been an OMGUS vote (which could've hurt the credibility of the wagon), color me unimpressed with his attempt at content.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

What is the purpose of this question? How is introducing WIFOM into the game on page 8 helpful? Also, if you are suspicious of Parama, why vote for Wolf?

I wanted to see how he'd respond. I didn't particularly care as to whether he'd say yes or no (which, as you correctly point out, would be laced with WIFOM). I like the way he reacted. (And I didn't ask Parama as a result of suspicion, I just I'd be able to get something out of his response.)

I guarantee that at least one scum was on board with the Sens lynch.

Yeah, Sens. (Seriously though, at least one scum among a group of 5 people? Big deal.)

The essential problem with analysing the Senslynch is that it was just a silly RVS wagon right up to the point that Sens self-hammered.