Newbie 958 ~Game over!

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
User avatar
Nikanor
Nikanor
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Nikanor
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8216
Joined: April 27, 2009
Location: je nais se quo

Post Post #75 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 6:25 am

Post by Nikanor »

Vote Count 1.3

Earlder1 (2)
- brianj, Incognito
remouk (2)
- Alta, ThatTumblweed
Coach Travis (2)
- remouk, Earlder1
brianj (1)
- LordChronos
LordChronos (1)
- Coach Travis

Not Voting (1)
- Leech

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.
I am in the bottom 10% of scumhunters onsite!
User avatar
brianj
brianj
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
brianj
Goon
Goon
Posts: 151
Joined: January 7, 2010

Post Post #76 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 6:27 am

Post by brianj »

I can somewhat see ThatTumbleweed's reasoning behind his vote; lurking scum and indecisive townie can be really indistinguishable when they had not made any choice or statement decisive to the game. This is exactly why I am surprised some seem to be against bandwagoning in RVS- it forces all player to make critical decision, and since day one is the period of the game where mislynch is most likely to occur due to lack of information there is not much to lose. However let me point out
Alta
is equally guilty of all the charges ThatTumbleweed is laying upon remouk? He hasn't expressed that much opinion and views, and his defense of remouk is also sounds somewhat neutral to me. He isn't necessarily scummy, but input would be appreciated.
Alta, who do you think is the most scummy player currently, and why him over others?


However,
remouk
, your post are completely devoid of game content. At least alta has decided to take lukewarm stance against ThatTumbleweed's vote- all you said is that you don't know anything. Let me tell you that active lurking is generally seen as much more scummy than lurking itself. Even if you are cluelss, fortunately there is plenty of discussion going on for you to talk about. What do you think about Earlder1's avatar question? Do you agree with Coach Travis's opinion of Incognito?

My impression of
Leech
is that he only pointed and countered the mistakes or newbie misconceptions without expressing his opinion about others himself, but perhaps this could be as much contribution could be made to the town at the moment since technically nothing significant had happened yet.

Earlder1
, slightly suspicious. I remember my first game where the scum was literally caught by over-reacting to some accusation thrown at him. Although the gravity of accusation thrown at him is significantly low, I am little lost at how Earlder1 responded just like LordChronos has helpfully pointed out.
LordChronos
currently gets pro-town judgement from me- all of his posts were intended in some form to provoke reaction from others.

@Coach Travis
What happened to your suspicions about remouk? Can I hear from you what do you think about ThatTumbleweed-remouk situation?
User avatar
Coach Travis
Coach Travis
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Coach Travis
Goon
Goon
Posts: 328
Joined: March 26, 2010
Location: Canada

Post Post #77 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 9:08 am

Post by Coach Travis »

I'm still undecided about Remouk. I find with active lurkers it's best to wait a little while to see if they will ever contribute anything. And it is still early in the game. I definitely find him suspicious, but I'll give him a chance for now. Same with Earlder 1, because I know in my first game I was also overly worried about my appearance, because I got an early vote on me(a serious one), so that made me scared. And I was town. So again, it is somewhat suspicious, but doesn't guarantee he's scum. I will be watching for both of them though.

After Incognito's latest post I can understand what he's saying. I prefer an explanation along with a vote, but now that he's explained himself I can understand that he sees things differently. He currently gets a null read.

And I did give my thoughts on ThatTumblweed in my previous post.
User avatar
Earlder1
Earlder1
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Earlder1
Goon
Goon
Posts: 382
Joined: February 1, 2010
Location: CA

Post Post #78 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 10:29 am

Post by Earlder1 »

Well, I actually think I'm doing well this game. My appearance may be slightly scummier than I'd like, but it's always good to be somewhat suspicious. The last game I played was my first and I got really into it. The problem, however, was that I was soooo town seeming. Everyone knew I was town and the mafia attempted to kill me night 1 because thay knew I would never be lynched. Luckily, I got doc saved, but this game I don't wanna make the same mistake. I wanna contribute to scum hunting but still be slightly suspicioud so that I don't get NK'd due to being completely town seeming.

@ LordChronos

Fair enough. Consider it dropped.
Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.

Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0
User avatar
LordChronos
LordChronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
LordChronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1617
Joined: January 1, 2010
Location: Northwest US

Post Post #79 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 4:00 pm

Post by LordChronos »

Earlder1 wrote:Well, I actually think I'm doing well this game. My appearance may be slightly scummier than I'd like, but it's always good to be somewhat suspicious. The last game I played was my first and I got really into it. The problem, however, was that I was soooo town seeming. Everyone knew I was town and the mafia attempted to kill me night 1 because thay knew I would never be lynched. Luckily, I got doc saved, but this game I don't wanna make the same mistake. I wanna contribute to scum hunting but still be slightly suspicioud so that I don't get NK'd due to being completely town seeming.

@ LordChronos

Fair enough. Consider it dropped.
No. Townies shouldn't care how they appear. Focus on scum hunting. If you try to be scummy, you are only helping scum (if you are town) because you distract the town from the actual scum.

@Incog

Not liking Earlder at all right now. Distracting us with the avatar thing and then badgering about how it isn't scummy to do that and how he was just asking in fun and now this about intentionally being scummy which just seems like he is making excuses for being scummy to try get out of possible lynchings in the future.

So,
Unvote; Vote: Earlder1
. L-2 vote.
I'm a talking computer.
User avatar
Earlder1
Earlder1
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Earlder1
Goon
Goon
Posts: 382
Joined: February 1, 2010
Location: CA

Post Post #80 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 5:23 pm

Post by Earlder1 »

@Lord Chronos

I didn't say I am intentionally being scummy. I just noted that it's better to be slightly suspicious than obvious town. No where did I say I was trying to appear scummy. Reread it.
Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.

Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0
User avatar
Earlder1
Earlder1
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Earlder1
Goon
Goon
Posts: 382
Joined: February 1, 2010
Location: CA

Post Post #81 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 5:25 pm

Post by Earlder1 »

Also, I will come up with a list of reads soon. This will require me to reread the thread, though, so it may take a few days before I get around to it. Basically, don't worry about me not scum hunting. It will happen ;).
Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.

Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0
User avatar
LordChronos
LordChronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
LordChronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1617
Joined: January 1, 2010
Location: Northwest US

Post Post #82 (ISO) » Tue May 18, 2010 6:16 pm

Post by LordChronos »

@Earlder

Fair enough. I read your statement a little more strongly than you worded it.
I'm a talking computer.
User avatar
Incognito
Incognito
Not Rex
User avatar
User avatar
Incognito
Not Rex
Not Rex
Posts: 5953
Joined: November 4, 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post Post #83 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 5:20 am

Post by Incognito »

Post 76, brianj wrote:
LordChronos
currently gets pro-town judgement from me- all of his posts were intended in some form to provoke reaction from others.
Can you explain this a bit further? Cuz I currently have LC as pretty neutral right now. I thought his pulling up of Alta's two separate quotes where he interpreted them as "hypocritical" didn't really hold true to me - Alta's initial vote was pretty clearly a random vote and can't quite be compared to his other stance on remouk's possible alignmenet since it's not like Alta ever
really
voiced negative criticism of remouk at any point in the game. Leech picked up on this too it seems. Aside from that, I didn't really know where LC's opinion stood until recently where he placed his vote on Earlder1.

Post 80, Earlder1 wrote:I didn't say I am intentionally being scummy. I just noted that it's better to be slightly suspicious than obvious town.
I don't really agree with this. If all or most of the townies are obvtown, that makes it much easier for all of the other townies to be able to focus their attention on the people who are legitimately scummy due to the fact that they actually are scum. Being slightly suspicious might give a person a better shot at surviving through the Night, yes, because the scum are less likely to kill people that they know they can potentially set up as mislynches in the future, but I don't really see why surviving through the Night should be that much of a concern for you. If you're town, you should realize that
even if you die
at some point, you have a chance at winning the game. Scum don't really have that same privilege.

And judging by the fact that in your last game you were actually Doc-protected because you were obvtown, I don't really see how you could now adopt the viewpoint you're mentioning here - your obvtowniness in your last game both prevented a kill AND practically confirmed you as town to one other person in the game -> the Doctor. That seems like a win/win situation to me.
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
User avatar
LordChronos
LordChronos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
LordChronos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1617
Joined: January 1, 2010
Location: Northwest US

Post Post #84 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 5:45 am

Post by LordChronos »

@Incog

The point I was trying to make was that it is hypocritical for Alta to defend remouk against the attacks that were made on him, yet continue to vote him. Also, I notice that Alta is still voting him.

@Alta

What are your thoughts on who the scum are?
I'm a talking computer.
User avatar
Incognito
Incognito
Not Rex
User avatar
User avatar
Incognito
Not Rex
Not Rex
Posts: 5953
Joined: November 4, 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post Post #85 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 5:55 am

Post by Incognito »

I see what you're getting at, and I too would like to know where he currently stands but I don't really hold that point against him right now. I know there have been plenty of times where I've held a random vote on someone that I was getting better feelings about, but I didn't move the vote simply because I hadn't found a better target to move to yet. I don't know if that's the case with Alta, but yeah, that's why I mentioned it.
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
User avatar
Nikanor
Nikanor
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Nikanor
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8216
Joined: April 27, 2009
Location: je nais se quo

Post Post #86 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 6:45 am

Post by Nikanor »

Vote Count 1.4

Earlder1 (3)
- brianj, Incognito, LordChronos
remouk (2)
- Alta, ThatTumblweed
Coach Travis (2)
- remouk, Earlder1
LordChronos (1)
- Coach Travis

Not Voting (1)
- Leech

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.
I am in the bottom 10% of scumhunters onsite!
User avatar
Earlder1
Earlder1
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Earlder1
Goon
Goon
Posts: 382
Joined: February 1, 2010
Location: CA

Post Post #87 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 7:44 am

Post by Earlder1 »

Well, I believe that is a difference of opinion. The fact of the matter is that there is rarely a majority of obvtown. In my previous game, there was maybe one other person who everyone thought was probably town and that's it. I know that I got lucky in my previous game because of the doc save but there is no guarentee we are in a setup with a doc. Obviously I don't want to appear so scummy as to be lynched day 1 because no matter my allignment, that hurts its chances of winning, but I will try and refrain from seeming obvtown. Maybe I'm alone in the line of thought, but after my first game, I value it.
Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.

Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0
User avatar
brianj
brianj
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
brianj
Goon
Goon
Posts: 151
Joined: January 7, 2010

Post Post #88 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 8:26 am

Post by brianj »

Earlder1 wrote:Well, I believe that is a difference of opinion. The fact of the matter is that there is rarely a majority of obvtown. In my previous game, there was maybe one other person who everyone thought was probably town and that's it. I know that I got lucky in my previous game because of the doc save but there is no guarentee we are in a setup with a doc.
Obviously I don't want to appear so scummy as to be lynched day 1 because no matter my allignment, that hurts its chances of winning, but I will try and refrain from seeming obvtown.
Maybe I'm alone in the line of thought, but after my first game, I value it.
Your scenario described the situation where the one Townie particularly stood out, which gave the doctor something to make his decision about instead of randomly choosing and hoping it will work.

Mafia has 100% chance of hitting Townie.

Mafia has 100% chance of hitting Townie whether or not one of the player is perceived as scummy or innocent.

Thus, I can only see your playing style as attempt to keep yourself alive by throwing unnecessary confusion to the town. This is prioritizing self's benefit over town's overall benefit.

@Incognito
I thought it was attempt to drag Alta out of lurking by forcing him to defend himself. I might have had different opinion about LordChronos's motivations if his accusation were bit more serious and well-based, but it was obvious to me that his wording as "hypocritical" was illogical. As you said his interpretation of Alta didn't really sound valid at all- no one is going to get more suspicious of Alta because of that.

The very fact his interpretation
User avatar
Earlder1
Earlder1
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Earlder1
Goon
Goon
Posts: 382
Joined: February 1, 2010
Location: CA

Post Post #89 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 9:16 am

Post by Earlder1 »

@brianj

I understand that it doesn't really change the odds and that mafia will NK town regardless. I'll admit that my reasoning is a bit selfish, but I would hate for my game to end day 1 for me. I know that I win if my allignment wins, regardless if I survive or not, but I still would not want to be Nk'd day 1.

That being said I understand that I am looking pretty bad right now. I made some comments about my perception earlier and my point about not being obvtown is selfish.

With this in mind, the deadline is still a ways off and a lot more discussion can be generated before a final decision has to be reached. I have no doubt that if deadline were tomorrow, my head would be in the noose, but since we have so much time, I urge that people do not get one track minded with me. Everyone needs to be looked into, everyone needs to be discussed and analyzed. Even if you still think I'm scum, at least be open to other possibilities.

As stated before, my analysis of the game thus far and reads on everyone will come in a few days time. Hopefully this will spark interest in toher people's actions as well.
Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.

Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0
User avatar
Alta
Alta
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
Alta
Townie
Townie
Posts: 17
Joined: April 15, 2010

Post Post #90 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 11:36 am

Post by Alta »

Sorry for not posting in so long. I've been busy but i'll try to post more oftean.

Anyway I currently don't really know who is scum. Everyone is a little bit suspicious but a prime suspect to me is remouk. However despite his scummy behavior I am not convinved he is Mafia. I think that right now the best thing we can do is keep discussing.
User avatar
Coach Travis
Coach Travis
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Coach Travis
Goon
Goon
Posts: 328
Joined: March 26, 2010
Location: Canada

Post Post #91 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 11:37 am

Post by Coach Travis »

The problem with such a strategy is that even if it makes you less likely to be NK'd, it makes you more likely to be lynched, which is worse, because if you're a townie who gets lynched, it means you failed your team by not convincing them of your innocence, and in this case, by deliberately not acting townish. Personally, I'd prefer to be NK'd, because in that case you're obviously doing something right, or else the mafia wouldn't be targeting you.

I'm finding Earlder 1 suspicious right now, but I'll at least wait for his analysis. Alta and Remouk need to add something soon:They're completely null right now. I'm feeling better about Incognito the more I see from him, and I'm mostly liking LC(his post on Earlder 1 was good, his case on Alta is a bit of a stretch). He is clearly trying to help though, so that's good. Everyone else, I still need more time to analyze.
User avatar
Incognito
Incognito
Not Rex
User avatar
User avatar
Incognito
Not Rex
Not Rex
Posts: 5953
Joined: November 4, 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post Post #92 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 11:54 am

Post by Incognito »

Post 88, brianj wrote:I might have had different opinion about LordChronos's motivations if his accusation were bit more serious and well-based, but it was obvious to me that his wording as "hypocritical" was illogical. As you said his interpretation of Alta didn't really sound valid at all- no one is going to get more suspicious of Alta because of that.
What do you think about his subsequent explanations then?

Also, was there more to this:
Post 88, brianj wrote:The very fact his interpretation
...this looks like something was cut-off.


Post 90, Alta wrote:Everyone is a little bit suspicious but a prime suspect to me is remouk. However despite his scummy behavior I am not convinved he is Mafia.
What do you find scummy about him? Previously you said you didn't think there was enough evidence to go after him but now you're considering his behavior "scummy" - what's changed?
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
User avatar
Alta
Alta
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
Alta
Townie
Townie
Posts: 17
Joined: April 15, 2010

Post Post #93 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 12:05 pm

Post by Alta »

@Incognito

Nothing's changed I always found Remouk scummy I just don't think that his actions are enough to condemn him.
User avatar
ThatTumblweed
ThatTumblweed
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
ThatTumblweed
Townie
Townie
Posts: 21
Joined: April 30, 2010

Post Post #94 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 12:22 pm

Post by ThatTumblweed »

So, now it appears to me, after having it oh-so-gently pointed out to me, that Alta and Remouk are acting almost exactly the same. No-content posting and dismissals of asked opinions due to lack of evidence.

However, Earlder1 has jumped, nay, VAULTED far, far ahead of everyone else as far as scummy appearance in my eyes. With the initial avatar dig I thought he might just be trying to throw a bit of confusion into the mix, but now that it's in discussion, his active attempted to not seem as though he is "obvtown" seem horribly, horribly scummy.

unvote


I'm removing my vote from remouk, but I'm hesitant to throw it straight to Earlder. He seems a great deal more scummy that remouk did to me, but I don't want to go vote-slinging again.
Now that I know that I'm breaking to pieces, I'll pull out my heart and I'll feed it to anyone.
User avatar
Earlder1
Earlder1
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Earlder1
Goon
Goon
Posts: 382
Joined: February 1, 2010
Location: CA

Post Post #95 (ISO) » Wed May 19, 2010 1:21 pm

Post by Earlder1 »

Lol, yes Tumbleweed, please don't. I don't wanna be a L-1 within 3 days of the game haha. This is a newbie game, and by nature slow. It's fine that you have your concerns about me, but at least give time for other things to unfold before lynching, or even getting close to a lynch. Hopefully, by deadline I will have swayed some people because in reality, I am town. However, I blame no one for being suspicious. I had a conversation with my roommate about this game so far and he straight up told me I am playing horribly. I will try and fix that. Hopefully my town nature will shine through in time :).
Mortality is the number 1 cause of death.

Town: 2-2
Scum: 1-0
User avatar
Incognito
Incognito
Not Rex
User avatar
User avatar
Incognito
Not Rex
Not Rex
Posts: 5953
Joined: November 4, 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post Post #96 (ISO) » Thu May 20, 2010 4:46 am

Post by Incognito »

Post 93, Alta wrote:Nothing's changed I always found Remouk scummy I just don't think that his actions are enough to condemn him.
Ah ok. I could see what you're saying now. Break it down for me though: what specifically do you find scummy about him?

-~-~-~

FWIW, yeah, I can see how remouk and Alta might be acting
somewhat
similarly, but I do think Alta has at least offered his opinion on at least one player with respect to that player's alignment. remouk hasn't really told us anything about his thoughts in that regard to this date.

Also I agree with holding off any L-1 votes at this time. It's still FAR too early in this game, and I'd like to see a LOT more content coming from pretty much everyone. Leech, remouk, Alta, and even Coach Travis seem particularly low on content to me right now and because of that, I'm reading all FOUR of them as pretty much neutral right now.

Mod:
Could we get a prod on remouk right now? He's approaching the 72 hour mark.
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
User avatar
remouk
remouk
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
remouk
Townie
Townie
Posts: 82
Joined: March 2, 2010

Post Post #97 (ISO) » Thu May 20, 2010 5:49 am

Post by remouk »

Sorry for not posting, been pretty busy. I'm going to read it all and post my impressions.
Knowledge is power.
User avatar
brianj
brianj
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
brianj
Goon
Goon
Posts: 151
Joined: January 7, 2010

Post Post #98 (ISO) » Thu May 20, 2010 6:24 am

Post by brianj »

To mod: There are something big coming up right now, and though I will try to contribute, I might go afk. If I do not vote within next 72 hours, replace me instead of prodding me.
User avatar
remouk
remouk
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
remouk
Townie
Townie
Posts: 82
Joined: March 2, 2010

Post Post #99 (ISO) » Thu May 20, 2010 7:02 am

Post by remouk »

About Earlder1's avatar thing: this was way too much "off-topic" so I understand it looks weird. Personnally, I think it had nothing to do here, but I don't see it as a scum thing. The scummy thing is that he said that he knows it can look scummy... And then, later, he states that he is happy to look a little bit scum... It has been discussed, but I don't think you should be happy to look scum. I totally understand why LordChronos votes him. But I won't: Earlder1 is as noob as me, so this can be "bad playing" (just like I did, saying "I have no clue yet" was worse that saying nothing at all, which was bad too. Lesson learned).

Also, I have a town read about Alta, because he has been "protecting" me while he was still voting me. I think a scum would have try to avoid being contradictory, and would have been more careful. Also, he stated he didn't have a clue, just like I did, and as I'm town I do know it's a town behavior. But now, there is quite a lot of discussions, I think he can try to make up his mind.

Not much to say about the others, except Incognito.

Incognito is interesting: he voted Earlder1, saying that he had very good reasons to vote, but only explained them when questions were asked. There's nothing more scummy than voting without explanation (except when there are none at the begining of the game). Also, I don't agree with that:
Incognito wrote:Coach Travis, I sometimes don't provide reasoning for my votes to try and see who might be thinking along the same lines as me when I place an unexplained vote. I figure that if a person can see what I see when I didn't even have to explain it, there's a decent chance that the person who has seen what I've also seen is likely thinking along the same lines I am and could potentially be pro-town. I wouldn't realistically leave an unexplained vote on a person up until the point that the person gets lynched, but I do think it's a good initial indicator.
The game is about poiting things. If no one voted XXX when you decided to vote him with no explanation, I don't get how it can change someone's mind to the point that he sees the same thing as you. I see it as a "let's vote XXX, maybe someone will vote him too, I'll agree with his explanations and won't be seen as a follower/scum jumping on a wagon". And I won't forget that Ingognito is an experienced player. I totally understand Coach Travis's reactions to Incognito's posts.

So, Incognito is my top suspect.

unvote, vote Incognito
Knowledge is power.

Return to “The Road to Rome [Newbie Games]”