Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 3.7:

farside22 (2): Confucius, havingfitz
chauchaudotcom (1): Pie_is_good
Pie_is_good (1): Mysterious Mystery Man

Not Voting (2): chauchaudotcom, farside22

You guys are real lucky it's the weekend, or I'd be swinging the prodstick like mad, and probably shortening the deadline to boot.

[Pie_is_good]

If you, too, find chau scummy, please express your agreement by being as unhelpful as possible and not under any circumstances posting your thoughts on the game.

[chauchaudotcom]

Shouldn't you logically be voting for farside22, then, if you think havingfitz was PittBunny's Night One investigation target?

No. Because you pointed out that fitz could have received a null read night 1 which, after reading back, is entirely possible. So I didn't want to leave fitz out as a possible suspect. Given the uncertainty of the night kill I have to go with my current most likely which is still MMM.

This implies that far/fitz can't be a scumteam. Why? Or is that just a mistype?

I believe MMM is scum so a far/fitz combo hadn't crossed my mind.

It also implies that MMM and Pie can't be a scum team...which is where I'm leaning. So like Pie said, why?

If you look at the post where I concluded this, it explains the precise reasoning for my conclusion.

you said: "can see how scum would find him town...but experienced scum would never get that buddy buddy with the top suspect on most of the remaining player’s lists. Right?"

I said: "Not necessarily. If that actually is actually town experienced scum could use that as a way to build up credibility and stay out of the heat the next day after the suspect flips innocent.

Which.....then makes me realize that a MMM + Pie team is probably unlikely. "

There's a pattern in chau's iso - with very few exceptions, she only overtly comments on people she suspects. Content directly related to other people is 100% questions. Then she votes Mindgamer and starts commenting on him. Then she starts commenting on MMM and votes him shortly after. Day 2 she spends much more time defending her own actions, but the pattern holds - with the exception of her bandwagon du jour and an exchange with SemiOldGuy day 2, all potentially-aggressive action towards other players is phrased as a question.

Again, as I pointed out to semi like 2039842034 times before when he questioned me about this. It is my

playstyle

so of course it is consistent. Nothing more or less. Of course I comment on those I suspect. Because the point of the questions is to determine whether or not people are more or less likely to be scum. If they seem scummy, I pursue it further. As town your job is to hunt scum.

As for defending my own actions, it was because I was accused of something completely bogus. Which is what Semi did. He jumped on minor points farside and hito made and continually tried to push it as a legit case, which it was not. I'll admit that I did get caught up in defending myself, but that is mainly because I have learned that when you do not defend yourself properly or easily give up it oftentimes leads to scum successfully getting a mis-lynch.

To claim that town should not be concerned with their image at all is naive. Granted, that was not the driving factor to my defense. I was defending because semi kept pushing on a weak point that was poorly justified and I had already explained a multiple of times. If you recall fitz also had a case against me then. However, at least fitz's case was based off something more concrete such as historical precedence (though it was still incorrect). To dispel false cases against you is also the job of a town as you want to prevent possible mislynches.

----

That being said. My motivation for this game at the moment is 0. The only reason I had stuck this through is because I felt bad that jeff had to go find all these replacements for the game. But at the moment I simply do not have the time for this game.

So, I'm going to have to request to be replaced out.

Sorry folks but I thought about this for awhile and at the least my replacement will give you a fresh perspective and actually be of some use to town.

I went ahead and responded to the recent posts because it would be unfair to leave without addressing points against me. Again, my apologies.

[chauchaudotcom]

Shouldn't you logically be voting for farside22, then, if you think havingfitz was PittBunny's Night One investigation target?

No. Because you pointed out that fitz could have received a null read night 1 which, after reading back, is entirely possible. So I didn't want to leave fitz out as a possible suspect. Given the uncertainty of the night kill I have to go with my current most likely which is still MMM.

This implies that far/fitz can't be a scumteam. Why? Or is that just a mistype?

I believe MMM is scum so a far/fitz combo hadn't crossed my mind.

It also implies that MMM and Pie can't be a scum team...which is where I'm leaning. So like Pie said, why?

If you look at the post where I concluded this, it explains the precise reasoning for my conclusion.

you said: "can see how scum would find him town...but experienced scum would never get that buddy buddy with the top suspect on most of the remaining player’s lists. Right?"

I said: "Not necessarily. If that actually is actually town experienced scum could use that as a way to build up credibility and stay out of the heat the next day after the suspect flips innocent.

Which.....then makes me realize that a MMM + Pie team is probably unlikely. "

There's a pattern in chau's iso - with very few exceptions, she only overtly comments on people she suspects. Content directly related to other people is 100% questions. Then she votes Mindgamer and starts commenting on him. Then she starts commenting on MMM and votes him shortly after. Day 2 she spends much more time defending her own actions, but the pattern holds - with the exception of her bandwagon du jour and an exchange with SemiOldGuy day 2, all potentially-aggressive action towards other players is phrased as a question.

Again, as I pointed out to semi like 2039842034 times before when he questioned me about this. It is my

playstyle

so of course it is consistent. Nothing more or less. Of course I comment on those I suspect. Because the point of the questions is to determine whether or not people are more or less likely to be scum. If they seem scummy, I pursue it further. As town your job is to hunt scum.

As for defending my own actions, it was because I was accused of something completely bogus. Which is what Semi did. He jumped on minor points farside and hito made and continually tried to push it as a legit case, which it was not. I'll admit that I did get caught up in defending myself, but that is mainly because I have learned that when you do not defend yourself properly or easily give up it oftentimes leads to scum successfully getting a mis-lynch.

To claim that town should not be concerned with their image at all is naive. Granted, that was not the driving factor to my defense. I was defending because semi kept pushing on a weak point that was poorly justified and I had already explained a multiple of times. If you recall fitz also had a case against me then. However, at least fitz's case was based off something more concrete such as historical precedence (though it was still incorrect). To dispel false cases against you is also the job of a town as you want to prevent possible mislynches.

----

That being said. My motivation for this game at the moment is 0. The only reason I had stuck this through is because I felt bad that jeff had to go find all these replacements for the game. But at the moment I simply do not have the time for this game.

So, I'm going to have to request to be replaced out.

Sorry folks but I thought about this for awhile and at the least my replacement will give you a fresh perspective and actually be of some use to town.

I went ahead and responded to the recent posts because it would be unfair to leave without addressing points against me. Again, my apologies.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I'm still here. I still think Pie_is_good is scum, with farside22 as my best bet for the second one.

[farside22]

Sigh another replacement.
@MMM: Do you think Chau is town? If not who in your view is town and why?

I have 2 more reads to do. This is my top priorty as of today.

[havingfitz]

you said: "can see how scum would find him town...but experienced scum would never get that buddy buddy with the top suspect on most of the remaining player’s lists. Right?"

I said: "Not necessarily. If that actually is actually town experienced scum could use that as a way to build up credibility and stay out of the heat the next day after the suspect flips innocent.

Sorry chau...I left out the [sarcasrm] [/sarcasm] indicators.

That sucks you are replacing out as we near the end of D3 and end up in D4 (unless we get the lynch and Confucius vig-shot right). The time you have endured in the game and your perspective will not be easily replaced by someone who has to wade through 25 pages.

tl:dr - well that focking sucks.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Chau can be called my #3.

I'd far prefer a Pie_is_good lynch to a farside22, not sure why exactly, but both hitogoroshi and Pie_is_good replaced during nighttime. So, unless both RayFrost and hitogoroshi requested replacement at that time, that slot is scum. It doesn't look like there's enough support for that wagon though, so I'll likely switch to farside22, who I also regard as very scummy.

[Confucius]

chauchaudotcom, if you are still reading, please reconsider:

If you are Town, then your vote is

necessary

in order to get a lynch on scum, unless scum bus their partner. There are six players alive today, and we need 4 votes to lynch -- your vote might be the fourth vote we need. If you replace out, the scum might be able to force a No Lynch simply by failing to vote, or not voting in a helpful manner. Although this

might

"out" one scum at best, the town is just plain better off with a lynch today, a Vig tonight, and a lynch tomorrow, as opposed to a No Lynch today, a Vig tonight, and a lynch tomorrow out of 4 players. We are much better off with 3 kills than 2 kills.

[Pie_is_good]

Again, as I pointed out to semi like 2039842034 times before when he questioned me about this. It is my playstyle so of course it is consistent. Nothing more or less. Of course I comment on those I suspect. Because the point of the questions is to determine whether or not people are more or less likely to be scum. If they seem scummy, I pursue it further. As town your job is to hunt scum.

Perhaps I was unclear. It's not your questions that I find scummy. It's a) the fact that you post questions

in lieu of posting your own opinions,

and b) the fact that you refuse to accuse anyone of anything who you're not outright attacking. I have a hard time believing that townchau ONLY finds commentably-scummy actions in her #1 suspect. The fact that this rule was broken for SOG is icing on the cake.

As for defending my own actions,

Apparently this wasn't clear, but I don't find defending yourself scummy, of course. I was just mentioning it for the sake of thoroughness.

To claim that town should not be concerned with their image at all is naive.

I'm claiming that town will be more concerned with scumhunting than with their image. I don't think that's naive, but you're free to disagree.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 3.8:

farside22 (2): Confucius, havingfitz
chauchaudotcom (1): Pie_is_good
Pie_is_good (1): Mysterious Mystery Man

Not Voting (2): chauchaudotcom, farside22

Seeking replacement for chauchaudotcom. /sigh

At least I didn't have to prod anyone.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

*Will not vote farside22 until the replacement catches up.*

[Jeffcole1]

*is thinking about shortening the deadline for real this time.*

[Confucius]

*is thinking about shortening the deadline for real this time.*

Mod

: Please consider the following:

If chauchaudotcom is town, that leaves two scum players alive out of five players who can possibly post. Now assume those scum are purposefully not posting so that you shorten the deadline.

Scum can literally refuse to post simply so that you shorten the deadline, i.e., taking advantage of your rules. And when you shorten the deadline, scum will very likely get a No Lynch -- which is objectively good for them.

Even

worse

, if chauchaudotcom is town, we

literally

will not be able lynch any scum because we need four votes to lynch somebody until she is replaced (unless scum vote for themselves or their partners).

I know very well how frustrating it is to find replacements and to mod a game that does not appear to be moving, but the town is

already

taking the brunt of these blows -- it is very difficult to scumhunt amongst so many replacements, and a slow game hurts the town, too. Shortening the deadline is simply not necessary, and, in my opinion, unfairly and objectively aids the scum at this point in time.

[Pie_is_good]

Alternate solution: Lynch chau. Not particularly fond of her after that last move.

Also, to respond to MMM's point about replacing in at night - the replacement call went up while the game was still in day, and since there are/were multiple scumbags in play at the time it's not like the replacement would

need

to happen to keep the game rolling. I mean, that's about the extent to which I can respond to a case like that.

MMM, if you have any other sort of a case to be made against me, I'd like to hear it. Do you find

me

scummy at all or just my predecessors?

[havingfitz]

Considering the fact Chau is residing at the bottom of my suspect list...

I echo Confucius' concerns regarding a shorter deadline without chau being replaced or her replacement not having time for game review

and I find Pie's generous offer at this critical stage of the game...to just lynch Chau...to be quite opportunistic, aka scummy.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Alternate solution: Lynch chau. Not particularly fond of her after that last move.

I definitely see scum seeking to gain from the situation.

From where I sit, Confucius and havingfitz are as good as confirmed. I see no reason why havingfitz would attack me today if he was scum. Confucius might not vig me tonight, but at the start of the day, it certainly seemed that way. So that leaves CC.com, farside, and Pie. Of those three, I see farside and Pie benevolent toward SOG, whereas CC.com attacked him. I also have scummy reads from those two. Pie's attack on CC.com started when she announced she'd be V/LA, and continues pushing when she replaces out. farside22 sat out most of D2, pushing for the easy evilsnail lynch while claiming both havingfitz and myself were scummy, playing both sides of the argument. This is similar to what she did D1 with Nick and I. They're the only scumteam that makes sense.

Unvote, vote: farside22

I mean, hell. I'm sure she's scum. And if deadline's going to be shortened, we're going to need a lynch quickly. If CC.com's replacement hammers and through some miracle farside22 flips town, Confucius can vig them, and we'll make it to the next day.

[Jeffcole1]

You're right, Confucius. I guess it's just frustration getting the better of me. Having had some time to think, I've decided I won't shorten the deadline, at least not until I get a replacement for chau. After that, I would hope we can get things going again.

[Pie_is_good]

I definitely see scum seeking to gain from the situation.

I find Pie's generous offer at this critical stage of the game...to just lynch Chau...to be quite opportunistic, aka scummy.

I'm pretty sure I was trying to lynch chau well before she replaced out. FoS: havingfitz; I have more confidence in your intelligence than this attack implies.

I see no reason why havingfitz would attack me today if he was scum.

Again, this is more of a comment on your understanding of the game than havingfitz's alignment.

Pie benevolent toward SOG,

Subtle Correction: Pie's predecessors benevolent towards SOG, meaning there's really thing I can say about that.

Pie's attack on CC.com started when she announced she'd be V/LA, and continues pushing when she replaces out.

What? This is scummy how?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

What? This is scummy how?

For the same reasons the evilsnail lynch got so much criticism, it's easy for scum to pick on players who aren't there to defend themselves, and the lynch gets little information.

[havingfitz]

I feel like farside has checked out.

Pie...your lynch comment did not come across as "I continue to think chau is the best lynch due to all of my previous suspicions and coupled with her bailout...I believe she is still the best lynch." Admittedly...you have been focussed on chau most of this day...yet your lynch comment was addressed at the rest of us (most of whom chau is not high on our list (I think)) and read to me as "Hey...let's all vote for chau because replacing out is scummy and we can avoid having to deal with a replacement." Which to me seems like an opportunistic push for other's to vote for chau. Because she is bailing.

[Pie_is_good]

Okay, so I backed up a few pages and confirmed that MMM's attack is total crap. I first express suspicion of chau on May 10th and reiterate it in my next few posts. Chau declares V/LA on May 13th. His claim - that I only chose to go after chau as an "easy target" due to V/LAness - is just wrong.

If you'd like to pick apart the attack itself as un-genuine I'd be happy to hear it, but people have been fairly quiet on the actual meat of the post.

@havingfitz: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading your attack like this:
PieScum is trying to get ChauTown lynched. When his attack didn't seem to gain traction, he tried to trick the rest of the town into voting Chau out of an unrelated distaste for her decision to replace out.

And if that's correct ... what? You're accusing PieScum of trying to trick the town into lynching chau based on something floozy like flaking, and you somehow think I had the expectation of my "let's lynch chau!" comment remaining unconnected to the fact that I've been pushing for a chau lynch all day.

The comment was just next in a line of "die chau scum suck die" comments that I've been making all day, and I maintain that interpreting it any other way is absurd. FoS stands.

[farside22]

I have checked out. I think waiting for a replacement would be best but if we don't get a deadline I'm not going to fight over my lynch. I think looking on confusion we have a very capable vig who can I believe looking at the 3 possible scum suspects in my view.

MMM/Chau/Pie
has a better then 50/50 shot of find one of the 2 remaining scums after my lynch.
I lean more MM/Chau and with Chau asking for a replacement I could agree with Pie on this view.

vote: Chau

I have seen scum leave under pressure more often then town.

[Confucius]

I really do not think chauchaudotcom was under "pressure" when she replaced out. The fact is, scum are very close to winning this game, and chauchaudotcom is one of the game's few original players remaining. I do not think she would invest so much time in the game only to replace out in near LyLo-situation simply on the reasoning that she is "scum and feels pressured."

She might be scum, but not because she requested replacement.

[farside22]

Lets see you have one confirmable role left in the game. 5 players. If your scum your best hope is to mislynch and hope the vig misfires while you do your kill leaving scum to win.
The chances of a miss kill after my lynch is 50/50.
Town lynches a scum. Best scum can hope for is the vig fires to the wrong person for a lylo situation tomorrow.
I think the scum have more to be concerned with being lynched. Pie gives her pressure she conceded but semi gives her pressure and she squabbles.
Just doesnt' make sense to me.