Mini 948 - Victorian Vampire - Game Over

Zang · Post Post #775 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:17 pm

sorry guys

CryMeARiver · Post Post #776 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:18 pm

Zang wrote:

sorry guys

Yeah, that sucked, but game is broken so no one won.

CryMeARiver · Post Post #777 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:19 pm

Oh, my bad, nevermind

Zang · Post Post #778 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:26 pm

CryMeARiver wrote:Mod, you failed
They did not reach a majority and town still could have won tonight with the vigs
Game is broken
Oh, and I called both mafia in this: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/J2YrTJsVGm2

not unless the mafia decided to kill nobody.

ElectricBadger · Post Post #779 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:26 pm

CryMeARiver wrote:Mod, you failed
They did not reach a majority and town still could have won tonight with the vigs
Game is broken

Mafia roleblocker eliminates potential vig-ness, and having half the remaining players satisfied the mafia WC anyhow.

As for broken, I don't think giving the mafia some knowledge of a town mechanic is particularly break-worthy.

Zang · Post Post #780 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:27 pm

And I am smart!

CryMeARiver · Post Post #781 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:50 pm

Gosh damn, I called mafia right when I died. I was PRAYING there would be a mafia doc and I wouldn't die, but oh well. Good game ooba and Spy. But I caught you

ElectricBadger · Post Post #782 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 2:52 pm

Couple bits of info:
-The traitor didn't know the other scum, but knew they existed; the other two weren't aware there was a traitor. The setup didn't really anticipate they would ever connect, and that a cross kill or lynch was fairly inevitable.
-Yes, fake claims were provided (one each vanilla, Angry Mob and doctor)
-IMO the game was a runaway town victory until Ooba's fake day vig; it collapsed the wagon on SpyreX and gave her a town appearance, both of which carried the rest of the game.

Intended subtexts:
-The Angry Mob had to coordinate with each other, but without a claim (as the doc and RB would shut them down).
-The traitor had to try to identify himself to the scum, or at least stay out of their way, and to try to predict the Mob kill.
-The spiritualist had to clarify the setup without revealing her role.

TheSkeward · Post Post #783 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 3:33 pm

I fucking wrote:It looks like town is determined to mislynch today. You guys had better fucking lynch SpryeX tomorrow. Don't let him slip out of it.

ARARADGAGHHGHA;LEJFI;OAJFOSD;VIJAEJNFI;NEZ;ISFNIO;AENF INCOHERENT RAGE HE WAS SO OBVIOUS ZANG MAGNA DAROX WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

Darox · Post Post #784 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 3:45 pm

Man I wanted to lynch Ooba both times.

I managed twice to come back to the thread and see "Oh look, the town managed to lynch the wrong person before I could tell them how bloody stupid they are"

ooba · Post Post #785 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 6:55 pm

CryMeARiver wrote:Gosh damn, I called mafia right when I died. I was PRAYING there would be a mafia doc and I wouldn't die, but oh well. Good game ooba and Spy. But I caught you

CryMeARiver wrote:Now I'm REALLY unsure about Darox-Ooba, I could see either of them as scum

Lol - you weren't really sure though in the end. And this is what you said when you died.

CryMeARiver wrote:I must ask (you can PM if you don't want to ruin it for everyone) is Darox and Skeward scum?
...
I still think Skeward\Darox is scum with someone else, maybe SpyreX.

I am happy you died though

Thoughts on the setup

I liked all three roles
- The traitor doc who could not join us so he'd have to be careful in who he protects
- Spiritualist is a good role.
- Has the weak vig been done before?

Overall
- Town had a lot of confirm-able roles. We were lucky we shot Yos on N1. Angry mob was far more powerful than the cop imo. It is a sign of guaranteed innocence. I think one of you should have taken the initiative and lead the mob through the thread.

In hindsight, our best move would have been to have SpyreX lead the angry mob. Even a "I'm so

angry

at cruelty" at the day one would have been enough.

- I find it funny that Magna found SpyreX's PM faked and the dead thread found my PM bad. Both were given to us. I stand by my statement that "I think a mod would make sure scum role PMs do not stand out when compared with others" - if I was a townie, I would have probably thought SpyreX was town based on that alone. This was my entire role PM:

You are Mira the Vampire Consort. Your fellow coven member is known to you, and each night your coven feeds upon one player, killing them. You may speak freely with your fellow vampire at night in the crypt. The first kill sent to me will be taken as the group’s decision, and the one sending it will perform the deed. Each night you may also invoke an unholy rune, sending demonic succubi to render another player powerless. You win when at least half the living players are Vampire Coven or nothing can prevent the same.

Should inquiries become too sharp, you may wish to claim the following:
You are Mira the Harlot. Throughout the night you are occupied with your sinful trade. You win with town.

Please reply to this message with the name of your role to confirm that you have read the rules. Good luck!

EB, was that a conscious decision to make our PMs slightly different?

- I still don't know why Josh just didn't claim doc??

ElectricBadger · Post Post #786 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 8:30 pm

Yeah, traitor doc was basically a cloak and dagger v. the vig's. And they were potentially powerful with claims, but I expected a godfather with a fake claim and a miller vig would have made things less clear.

As for the claims, sorta kinda. I expected the Tailor claim, with its random and out of character modern Disney tie-in, to stand out as the least likely, and that was intentional to prevent a flavor claim from breaking the game. Initially the Lord was given the Cobbler role as a fake claim, and the Dragoon was a real vig, but I switched them last minute 'cause I felt that the Cobbler might stand out as a non-combatively inclined role. I was very surprised when it was identified as a fake.

As for Mira's FC, it was a sort of WIFOM after the RB's (like the tailor, the executioner was intended to sound questionable flavor-wise) and the other vanilla PMs. I'm not really sure what stood out about it to make it seem FAKE though.

So overall, yes, rather than sticking to a pattern that might not be perfect I intentionally tried to overlay a false pattern that couldn't be used effectively.

Not sure if such a thing has ever been used here before, but I have used the role before on another site. I really like it 'cause it makes the vig ability (which is nice for removing anti-town) a lot less swingy (note that nobody targetted scum until N3).

Glad you liked the Spiritualist. I'd been pondering ways to keep dead players involved in the game, and it seemed like a nice method of doing that while also helping to clarify the setup for town, which is always a source of confusion. Other than that, the main ability is the potential to become a proven townie nigh-instantaneously.

I have to ask the scum - what was your reaction to hearing that the dead were still in the game? I was hoping it would be a nice curveball for ya.

As for confirmable roles, yeah: the three Mob and the Spiritualist, and the Cop to a lesser degree. The Lord started with knowledge of the Mob, though, so I anticipated they'd be hunted as they tried to communicate with one another. But Mob wasn't at all a sign of innocence IMO; otherwise SpyreX would have been completely golden, and he barely survived even with an Innocent investigation. The issue there was partly play, though, and very much not keeping his fake claim in mind during the first two days, imo.

Speaking of, I found it really funny that 1) there was any doubt at all that fake claims were provided when there was no sample vanilla and every role was different and 2) people took breadcrumbs so seriously. 3) in a game with quotable PMs anyone thought they couldn't fake PMs from me.

SpyreX · Post Post #787 (ISO) » Sun May 30, 2010 8:45 pm

.... I didn't expect to see THIS when I got back. Good gravy.

Speaking of, I found it really funny that 1) there was any doubt at all that fake claims were provided when there was no sample vanilla and every role was different and 2) people took breadcrumbs so seriously. 3) in a game with quotable PMs anyone thought they couldn't fake PMs from me.

A thousand times this. I'm still surprised at how that went. I was really, really afraid that Zang or someone would just quote TheSkeward and vote me. I dont think there would have been much to do at that point but take it and pray Ooba could pull it out.

I have to ask the scum - what was your reaction to hearing that the dead were still in the game? I was hoping it would be a nice curveball for ya.

Well, see, I killed Yos because I had a feeling he'd be key to it all falling apart. Knowing that he could chatter even then was worrisome. CMAR having an entire confirmed alliance to talk to was too much. That was a no question death.

The issue there was partly play, though, and very much not keeping his fake claim in mind during the first two days, imo.

I kinda kept it in mind. I still hold that CMAR's first statement didn't even make me blink because the wording seemed so weird I honestly assumed it was just a guess based on the weak vig mechanic. (and was actually worried there was an actual "group" of weak vigs who would instantly screw me but couldn't sweat that because that'd just be an unfixable situation).

Realistically, when I saw it was just Ooba and I I had three goals:

1.) Actively and aggressively lynch someone from the other scum faction (this KINDA worked).
2.) Draw a cop investigation.
3.) Hopefully not ever have to bus Ooba.

From that point it was just kinda playing it by ear. What -I- tried to do worked.

Did the traitor have a kill? Actually, Josh NOT claiming doctor was about the best thing he could have done because the way day 1 was going chances were more than decent I would have been lynched (or put in a position where all the vigs came out) AND he would have been a prime kill target. Which, well, ouch.

Interesting setup. Spiritualist, as scum, is a really worrisome role because killing people in the hopes to lobotomize the town doesn't work too hot when they're still around. Angry Mob is a neat mechanic. Personally, I didn't like the cop in this setup - I think a tracker would have been a better fit. (I also don't like cops in general soo).

Solid though. Setup, Modding and players for the most part - although watching 2.5 active in lylo and then a powerlynch on someone else entirely still makes the head hurt some even for a win.

Zang · Post Post #788 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 3:11 am

And magna, all the stuff you said about me to prove my townness was a lie. I didn't pick up on on your breadcrumb and I don't know why I voted for ooba but it wasn't because he was a dayvig and I was a weak vig.

VasudeVa · Post Post #789 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 3:26 am

It was blatantly obvious that SpyreX was scum and Skeward was

not

,in any shape or form, scum. Why you guys lynched the other over the other is beyond me.

CryMeARiver · Post Post #790 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 5:26 am

VasudeVa wrote:It was blatantly obvious that SpyreX was scum and Skeward was
not
,in any shape or form, scum. Why you guys lynched the other over the other is beyond me.

Personally, I thought the above statement was clear as well.
@ooba, I wasn't confused at the end I don't think, if I remember, I was just hoping darox happened to flip scum.
@darox: claiming innkeeper in hopes to make scum think you were doc to draw the nightkill was brilliant! And it would have worked if I wasn't forced to claim because scum was forcing my wagon.

TheSkeward · Post Post #791 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 5:26 am

VV, you and me need to have a "I got mislynched by a stupid town" drink. Or alternatively, play another game together. Even when I thought you were the best lynch I liked the way your thought processes worked.

CryMeARiver · Post Post #792 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 5:30 am

TheSkeward wrote:VV, you and me need to have a "I got mislynched by a stupid town" drink. Or alternatively, play another game together. Even when I thought you were the best lynch I liked the way your thought processes worked.

Did u read the gy? I want to nbe in on that drink! Drinks on spyreX!
I didn't like your play while I was alive though :p you waffled and active lurked
Btw, VV, sorry about the lynch. If you remember, I was on vacation. I got back on to unvote you because I realized you could be a doc that I needed,and u were already lynched. Good game and sorry :p

TheSkeward · Post Post #793 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 5:31 am

At the end of the day, I also have to congratulate SpryeX. You were just so audacious with the bullshit you spewed that Zang accepted it. Confidence > Logic. Some of my best scum wins have been according to that same principle, even if it is

ridiculously infuriating

to watch.

SpyreX · Post Post #794 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 7:31 am

To be fair there WAS logic behind it. He was arguing flavor in a setup where it made no sense. He was arguing hard that the cop just happened to hit two roles that gave false results. He was arguing for a no goon scumteam.

He just happened to be right on all accounts.

I have no idea how I managed to get VV AND TheSkeward lynched and not get murdered for it. I'll take it though.

cruelty · Post Post #795 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 12:26 pm

frustrating

hate gfs ;/

i thought once skeward flipped that we had it, that there was no way there'd be a mafia roleblocker as well. alas.

also i have to apologize to town, my head really wasn't in this game at all.

Zang · Post Post #796 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 1:05 pm

i have to apologize to town, my head really wasn't in this game at all.

this

(until day 3)

Darox · Post Post #797 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 1:13 pm

I actually just claimed Innkeeper to stir up conversation.

I wasn't really bothered by the potential NK aspect, considering how unlikely it was.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #798 (ISO) » Mon May 31, 2010 3:11 pm

Thanks for the fun game EB - this is what a Themed Mini should be like!

Sigh ... voting for Darox was a mistake I made during my limited access during the weekend / holiday. I only went along with it because it originated from Zang and I was sure he wasn't scum. Going against my "Don't vote outside fake-claims in LYLO" belief cost me. I take full responsability for the town losing (although I am sure Spyrex would have hammered Darox once Zang voted anyway.

I'd be curious to see the full set-up details from EB.

If anything this game gave me some clear reads on players for the future.

Congrats to the Mafia. To loosely quote Spaceballs "Evil will always triumph becuase Good played stupid (Day 4 anyway)"

And Zang you clearly picked up on my breadcrumb to that I wanted to off Darox Night 1 since you targeted him

VasudeVa · Post Post #799 (ISO) » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:54 am

@Skeward - 'I got lynched by stupid town' sums it up nicely. I'm up for another game with you. (Currently signing up for Beatles Mafia, but would gladly /out if its not your preference.)

Mega props for ooba though, I was so convinced by the effort he put into his fake scum hunting. D: