Star Wars Mafia (Game Over)

[Scott Brosius]

GD it all. The only part of your last post that makes me want more discussion is the people on your wagon.....None of whom I'd call town and in fact many of whom I've called scum.

Unvote

till others get a chance to weigh in. I'd also like to hear ooba's promised post before we lynch today.

I don't get this. As I've said before, it shouldn't matter much who's on the wagon. Slicey's town, you're town, I've been confirmed town, and I believe d3x is Scum mafia. Why does it matter if Lynchmepls is also on the wagon? Just because some suspicious people are on the wagon, you're not going to lynch someone who almost everything else against them? As far as hearing ooba's post, fine, but I expect to see you back on the wagon if he says nothing important about DP, because I'm getting tired of the cold feet. Just remember, Scum mafia wants Empire mafia lynched just as much as town does, so let's take advantage of that instead of having misgivings about it.

Wait why is Slicey town? Also nobody is confirmed until they flip.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

d3x (3)

- bv310, Scott Brosius, Dragon Phoenix

wolframnhart (0)

-

ooba (0)

-

Kast (0)

-

Dragon Phoenix (5)

- Slicey, LynchMePls, d3x, Kast, danakillsu

Slicey (0)

-

LynchMePls (0)

-

vezokpiraka (0)

-

Scott Brosius (0)

-

danakillsu (0)

-

Kthxbye (0)

-

bv310 (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (4)

- wolframnhart, ooba, vezokpiraka, Kthxbye

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is July 4, ~ 8 pm PDT.

[LimMePls]

Wait why is Slicey town? Also nobody is confirmed until they flip.

I wouldn't go that far. Wolf is confirmed, since he claimed mason and his mason buddy later flipped mason. I guess bv isn't confirmed, but it's so certain that I'm comfortable thinking of him as confirmed. That said I agree with your sentiment here.

[Kthxbye]

GD it all. The only part of your last post that makes me want more discussion is the people on your wagon.....None of whom I'd call town and in fact many of whom I've called scum.

Unvote

till others get a chance to weigh in. I'd also like to hear ooba's promised post before we lynch today.

I don't get this. As I've said before, it shouldn't matter much who's on the wagon. Slicey's town, you're town, I've been confirmed town, and I believe d3x is Scum mafia. Why does it matter if Lynchmepls is also on the wagon? Just because some suspicious people are on the wagon, you're not going to lynch someone who almost everything else against them? As far as hearing ooba's post, fine, but I expect to see you back on the wagon if he says nothing important about DP, because I'm getting tired of the cold feet. Just remember, Scum mafia wants Empire mafia lynched just as much as town does, so let's take advantage of that instead of having misgivings about it.

Wait why is Slicey town? Also nobody is confirmed until they flip.

^^This

[Kthxbye]

Pilots:
Wedge Antilles (DP) ***
Derek Kilvian (vezo)

Officers:
Carlist Rieekan (Slicey)
Jan Dodonna (ooba)
Mon Mothma (LMP)

Others:
Wicket (d3x)

Here's the list of today's lynch-able player's again. Given ooba's thoughts about set-up and given fake claims, should we go after an officer for today's lynch or a pilot? Why? *This question is for everyone, btw*

To remind you of ooba's thoughts...

- All three factions which were not town got a major fakeclaim like in the previous game.
- I would expect other fake claims to follow last game's pattern - not connected. So if one empire scum turns up in Pilots, I would concentrate in Officers for his partner.
- I am guessing symmetry of roles points to RC being an officer. (6 and 6) Therefore in case there is a last jabba scum, they should be in the pilots.

[LimMePls]

- I am guessing symmetry of roles points to RC being an officer. (6 and 6) Therefore in case there is a last jabba scum, they should be in the pilots.

I'm not following why he assumes RC's role was an officer. We never saw an RC fake claim, so assuming this doesn't seem right. @ooba What is the reason for speculating this?

Other than that, I agree with his point that if we find an Empire scum amongst the pilots we should look for one amongst the leaders. SoG fake claimed Obi-wan, who is definitely in the leader camp. So, an empire scum amongst the pilots seems likely. Chwebacca is the only Jabba scum fake claim we know, and since Chewie would fit better amongst the pilots, that would mean we should be looking for Jabba scum amongst the officers. The only problem is that if RC's fake claim was an officer, as ooba seems to suggest, then that means that there was one Jabba officer and one Jabba pilot, so we should be looking where exactly for the third?

I think DP is the best lynch today. The reason based on his role is because his claim doesn't fit with all the other pilot claims, including confirmed pilot flip from farside22 being a 1-shot, and I'm assuming the Han Solo 1-shot is because he is a pilot too. dana claims a pilot PR and also says it is 1-shot. If DP had claimed 1-shot bodyarmor that would have seemed more fitting with what we've seen from the setup. Plus the fact that he offered the power even though we were only doing name claims. Add all of this to the fact that he hasn't been very helpful this game, I'd say pretty much lurking while at the same time saying we should lurker hunt, and even now in his post where he concedes his lynch he only offers a vague point about looking at Slicey's recruit suggestion. Couldn't he discuss what he means by this before his lynch if he is trying to help the town? Since we suspect there is scum amongst the pilots, he seems like the most likely candidate.

I'm not sure how d3x fits into all of this pilot/officer speculation, but DP seems the better lynch anyway.

[danakillsu]

I think Slicey is town. If you don't, I guess that would explain why you find the DP wagon fishy, although I've already explained why even that shouldn't be much of a problem.

I think DP is the best lynch today. The reason based on his role is because his claim doesn't fit with all the other pilot claims, including confirmed pilot flip from farside22 being a 1-shot, and I'm assuming the Han Solo 1-shot is because he is a pilot too. dana claims a pilot PR and also says it is 1-shot. If DP had claimed 1-shot bodyarmor that would have seemed more fitting with what we've seen from the setup.

This is not the right way to argue for his lynch based on his claim. He has said that he gets more than one shot because he is the leader, but that all the pilots get a one-shot ability. Fair enough. But look at Blaze. He didn't have a one-shot ability, he was just a VT. So DP saying this doesn't make sense because not all of the pilots got abilities at all.

[bv310]

Unvote, Vote: DP

You've convinced me that this is where our scum lies. I'll be interested to see how this all works out.

[d3x]

@Mod

- I'll probably be V/LA for a few days {through the weekend}.

Got it.

vezo2.0 really needs to come on back here and post before the end of the Day.

[Kast]

@Wedge Antilles Bulletproof Claim-
DP's act of unnecessarily claiming isn't automatically a scum move. But it is a very odd move.

The content (claiming bulletproof) IS pretty anti-town; if he really was a bulletproof townie, then the best thing he can do is soak NKs. If he was town, then his unprompted claim helps scum avoid that. This is not symmetric with scum; a scum claiming bulletproof OR false claiming bulletproof would be less likely to be Night Killed by the opposite scum team. It is possible that DP and his scumbuddy(ies) crafted his fake claim but didn't warn him against making that as an unprompted claim. If he had been forced to claim, it would not be as bad as it is.

@Mod-

Does Blaze flipping "Alliance Townie" mean that he was a Vanilla Townie?

[bv310]

Seeing as every other 'Nilla Townie has flipped that way, I would assume so.

[Kast]

@BV-
I assume mod will answer yes. However, it doesn't hurt to ask, especially as it is relevant to one of the charges against DP (which I am not subscribing to until/unless mod answers the question).

[Kast]

Also, won't be around the weekend, so have fun all.

Assuming no new forum changes or other unforeseen disturbances, I should be checking in again on Monday.

[Kthxbye]

I'm guessing it will be night when you get back Kast. I want ooba's post and vez to post before this day ends. Once those 2 things happen, I will be happy to put my vote back on DP for the hammer. If ooba's analysis turns out to be accurate in the end, I think out of the 2 pilots that have yet to be investigated, DP is more likely scum than vez.

[wolframnhart]

So sorry every one for my craptacular play these past few game days. No excuse for it, just my own fault for letting this game go.

can someone do me a favor and summarize the DP case for me? I will try to catch up on the game (especially if it goes into night phase during the next couple days) but a quick summary would be appreciated.

[danakillsu]

I am Wedge Antilles, commander of Rogue Squadron. I am unnightklliable. And inter alia, I was in the battle of Hoth.

To the game: It makes sense that one of the cleared suspicious players has a high chance of being a GF, but we can deal with that later.

a) You weren't supposed to claim abilities.
b) An unnightkillable Wedge seems strange.
c) Interesting you should mention the GF in this post. Coupled with my suspicions of you before, your claim of an unnightkillable townie is very interesting. I wouldn't be at all surprised at this point if you were the emperor, who can be investigated, but not night killed.
What does everyone else think about this?

I am Wedge Antilles, commander of Rogue Squadron. I am unnightklliable. And inter alia, I was in the battle of Hoth.

Basically, since I survived so many battles I survive night attacks.

As the commander I guess my ability is nightly rather than one shot as for the others.

This is what DP has said so far. The second quote doesn't make much sense, first of all. Making someone unnightkillable just because they survived a few battles is at least a little ridiculous. But what about the second sentence? As the commander of Rogue Squadron, he has a nightly unnightkillable ability as opposed to a one-shot for others. Does this mean that you know that all Rogue Squadron members have a one-shot unnightkillable ability? Or are you saying that all other member of the Rogue Squadron have some one-shot ability?
Finally, over all, this isn't an impressive amount of flavor. It is rather vague, so although it doesn't make him mafia automatically, this certainly could have been thought up on the spot.

I think DP is the best lynch today. The reason based on his role is because his claim doesn't fit with all the other pilot claims, including confirmed pilot flip from farside22 being a 1-shot, and I'm assuming the Han Solo 1-shot is because he is a pilot too. dana claims a pilot PR and also says it is 1-shot. If DP had claimed 1-shot bodyarmor that would have seemed more fitting with what we've seen from the setup.

This is not the right way to argue for his lynch based on his claim. He has said that he gets more than one shot because he is the leader, but that all the pilots get a one-shot ability. Fair enough. But look at Blaze. He didn't have a one-shot ability, he was just a VT. So DP saying this doesn't make sense because not all of the pilots got abilities at all.

That's some of the more recent points against DP. If you want earlier stuff, you'll have to find it yourself.

[danakillsu]

EBWOP: Some of MY more recent points against DP. If you want others' points, iso them.

[Kdub]

@Mod-

Does Blaze flipping "Alliance Townie" mean that he was a Vanilla Townie?

There is nothing that sets players with the same role (e.g. Alliance Townie) apart from each other aside from flavor.

[bv310]

So that's a yes, then?

[Kdub]

Yes, just trying to keep all possible bases covered.

[ooba]

I'm sorry. If you read the game I was modding, you would know that my internet at home is broken. Writing this from a friends house - will put my post up soon.

[Dragon Phoenix]

The case for the defence:

I think my impending lynch will give good information, looking at the voters on my wagon, and especially the lack of reasoning behind it.

I have been called scummy because of lurker hunting and lack of substantial contributions. It is interesting that NO-ONE commented on my statements to this respect, that this is my normal way of playing and hence a null-tell.

I have volunteered the nightkill immunity part of my role, and several of you have taken that headlong as admitting that I have a GF type role. I am not that dense.

One last remark: the suggestion that the jabba group could have recruiting ability is worth taking a second look at tomorrow.

Good luck town, you will need it.

@Kast: given the continued accusations against me, no self respecting scum will ever try to shoot me, so volunteering my night ability does not harm us.

@Lynchmepls: seriously, wtf is vague about that statement wrt the jabba group?

[LimMePls]

@Lynchmepls: seriously, wtf is vague about that statement wrt the jabba group?

Is it worth taking a look at because you think it is possible? Is it worth taking a look at because you think the person who suggested it knows something we don't? Is it worth taking a look at for some other reason? What conclusions do you draw from the situation?

You know, you could actually help us with some discussion, instead of just tell us what to talk about tomorrow. At the least you could clarify what exactly about the suggestion of a Jabba recruit you think we should be talking about.

Again you are almost completely unhelpful.

[ooba]

ISOs

(Note ~ means connected to)
d3x
Voting history: THC -> HP -> Scott -> SoG -> dana -> vezo -> TF -> Blaze -> DP
~ Slicey: Defense of K7 - ISO:6
~ LMP: "I'm not feeling LynchScum"
Conclusion: Neutral on the connections with vezo - since he has admitted in thread that he has bussed his partners in previous games - However I would say that vezo would not be the GF since he put him at L-1. Strong slicey and LMP connection; has not attacked Slicey and LMP for the most part.

DP
Voting history: Blaze -> Slicey -> Blaze -> HP -> WS -> SoG -> d3x -> dana -> d3x
~ Slicey: Votes Slicey in ISO:4 but votes for Blaze in next post immediately
~ Vezo: Calls AlGM's lurking "typical scum lurking" but does not vote him?
~ d3x: "regular contributions, nothing particularly standing out, except an error in quoting that I think scum would be more careful about. Read for the time being: neutral."
- His PbPa does not include any of these other four players
- @DP: You agreed with Kthxbye saying "Out of blaze, dana, and DP, precisely 2 are scum." - what are your current thoughts on dana?
Conclusion: DP is not scum with LMP. Mild links with other three. Would probably say that he's not scum with d3x too.

LMP (VRK)
Voting history: DP -> Slicey -> Scott -> TF -> AlGM -> dana -> TF -> Vezo -> TF -> d3x -> BlazeRb -> DP
~ Slicey: VRK’s very first post votes Slicey. The “lulz, joking” is odd; maybe he was afraid k7 might do something stupid”
~d3x: “This should be good if your evidence is really enough to overcome the mountain of a case against dana?” + “This is a fascinating question.”
Conclusion: Very strong d3x connections – esp. Due to the occasional chainsaw of Kthxbye for the d3x case. Votes but then is not “happy” with the d3x wagon. I can also confidently say that LMP and dana are not scum together.

Slicey (k7)
Voting history: dana -> CMAR -> SoG -> TF -> DP -> dana -> DP
- @Slicey: "I think there is at least one scum between Blaze and dana." - Your thoughts on this now after the Blaze flip?
- @Slicey: "BTW, totally forgot to mention this earlier, but I have a pretty good reason to believe that Vezo is fakeclaiming." - you should share this info right now.
Conclusion: I haven't listed em here but numerous occasions where he thinks d3x is town. ISO:47 itself points to strong LMP, d3x connections.

Vezo (AlGM)
Voting history: d3x -> bv -> WS -> SoG -> d3x -> dana -> d3x -> TF -> dana -> d3x -> BlazeRB
Conclusion: Not scum with d3x. Other than that, IDK. (In unrelated news: Vezo in isolation makes me feel that he might be an alt)

Lynch Candidates

- Atleast two scum in the list of unconfireds\uninvestigated {d3x, Dragon Phoenix, Slicey, LynchMePls, vezokpiraka}
- Someone asked me who I would like to lynch out of the officers\pilots. I think lynching one of the pilots is a better choice since we already have three confirmed town flips in the pilots (3/6) vs 1 flip in the officers (1/5).
- However I just cannot see any strong links with either Vezo or DP with respect to the other people in the above list.
- I have already said this but I do not see a scum DP claiming NK-kill immune. Why wouldn't he just claim a VT?
- If it was unclear, very strong d3x-LMP-Slicey. I saw this at the start of this day based on last two days play and ISOs just reaffirmed that.
- Out of the three, I am again uncomfortable with lynching d3x first because of the wicket claim; maybe a classic anti-mass claim role
- Thus I'd be happy with lynching either of Slicey or LMP today.

Unvote. Vote:Slicey

because the d3x links were stronger but will swing for a LMP lynch too.

[danakillsu]

- I have already said this but I do not see a scum DP claiming NK-kill immune. Why wouldn't he just claim a VT?

And I may have already said this, but he may know or be guessing that someone HAS tried to kill him and would come out with that info if he claimed VT. Therefore he had to claim unnightkillable and a pilot seemed to fit in. Just a guess, but it's a definite possibility unless someone can prove he wouldn't be notified that someone had attempted to kill him.

I think lynching one of the pilots is a better choice since we already have three confirmed town flips in the pilots (3/6) vs 1 flip in the officers (1/5).

So you want to lynch a pilot, but...

- Thus I'd be happy with lynching either of Slicey or LMP today.

Neither of these is a pilot! There's a huge disconnect here. If you want to lynch a person claiming pilot, then lynch DP or vezo.