Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[podium123456]

Sigh. When this is, again, an issue tomorrow there's going to be a slew of I told you so's.

Further, when SSBF is, in fact, lying there is going to be even more I told you so's.

Unvote, Vote: Llama

you think the only investigative role in this game is a gunsmith?

[SpyreX]

I think there is A investigative role.

I think, based on play, that has waay more of a chance to be charter than SSBF.

Charter has claimed gunsmith.

Thus, gunsmith it is.

[Wickedestjr]

If Spyrex has the same view that as you, yet you find that view to be still scummy, does not that make you scummy too? So are you saying you are scum?

I don't see where SpyreX shares my view of the miller claim in the link you provided. If that is the view he claims to have then that only makes my vote for him better, because immediately jumping to the conclusion that he is town shows no cautiousness.

Also Wicked there is a difference between that game's miller and our game's miller. The biggest difference is that in that game the claimed miller waited until after the cop investigated and got a guilty before claiming. In our game the cop has not investigated nopo, and better not, we now have a saved investigation, which can be used somewhere else. Hence pro-town. And that alone is big.

This isn't true. The claimed miller claimed in I think the second post of the game. The cop posted after him.

It was a gamble. A huge gamble that paid off because he was the one who got investigated and did it in such a way that the investigation helped strengthen his claim.

I'm still confused. How did this investigation strengthen his claim? I don't see how the investigation has anything to do with it, because nobody even noticed it and he claimed before the person who investigated breadcrumbed it.

am i right? or am i confused? we wont be able to trust either investigation unless one of them is lynched and flips scum. although... wait a minute... maf will HAVE to kill one or both of them eventually. after they flip town, all their previous investigations will be useful. so let them both ride until maf kills them, perhaps? we will have some leverage over the night kills that way... it forces maf to kill a cop, or they can risk an investigation occurring.

You are forgetting the possibility of charter or SSBF being scum.

Does "Let's do this" shown here insinuate that he is undecided on who to lynch, or pretty rock solid that he is indeed lynching the cop?
ANSWER IT.

I interprated it that he wanted to lynch one of the cop claims. I agree with you that it is odd that he didn't make the first move however. I can see how it looks like he is waiting for us to decide what to do.

Unvote. Vote: Nopointinactingup.

I would prefer lynching him instead of SSBF or Llama right now.

[Hayker]

Vote count

Llamaeatataco 3-(AlmasterGM, Super Smash Bros. Fan, SpyreX)

Super Smash Bros. Fan 1-(Sando)

nopointinactingup 4-(hiphop, nopointinactingup, charter, Wickedestjr)

AlmasterGM 1-(crypto)

Sando 2-(podium123456, llamaeatataco)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch

[podium123456]

am i right? or am i confused? we wont be able to trust either investigation unless one of them is lynched and flips scum. although... wait a minute... maf will HAVE to kill one or both of them eventually. after they flip town, all their previous investigations will be useful. so let them both ride until maf kills them, perhaps? we will have some leverage over the night kills that way... it forces maf to kill a cop, or they can risk an investigation occurring.

You are forgetting the possibility of charter or SSBF being scum.

No i'm not forgetting it.

Unvote. Vote: Nopointinactingup.

I would prefer lynching him instead of SSBF or Llama right now.

Mafia wants nopoint lynched, regardless of if he's mafia or not. Why are you guys pushing this?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@nopointinactingup: You originally claimed Miller. Then you later said "I'm a Death Miller". Why didn't you claim Death Miller during your Miller claim early in the Day? On top of that, I heard that Death Miller's role are controversial and extremely rare. Right now, I'm no longer believing nopointinactingup's claim.

Right Day1 like I really have something to contribute that much. I told you I'm not the kind to make analysis on Day1 because I think it's easy for me to be right as it is to be wrong. If you guys are measuring the amount of scum-hunting and "doing something" in Day1 then you are obviously either bluffing or think you're doing more than you're really doing. Lynching me will certainly put you guys in a huge disadvantage and you know exactly why.

1. I don't like how you're basically saying we don't have much to contribute. Now it is true that we have the least amount of information to work on Day 1, but I'm not going to let that stop me from finding scums.

2. Games can go a lot faster then this game and I'm talking about Mini Normal's. One ongoing game I'm in started after this game accumlated over 400 posts in Day 1 and is currently in Day 2.

3. hiphop said it best when he said that if you are a miller, town is still at an advantage with two investigative roles.

You NEED to know who I am. That information is INVALUABLE to the town.

Since I doubt you're a death miller, the only way to find out about your alignment now is to lynch you. If you're a miller, town still has a major advantage over scums.

I also realized that nopointinactingup has been acting defensive with his recent posts. Combined with his self-vote and I think nopointinactingup is a better lynch candidate then llamaeatataco.

unvote, Vote: nopointinactingup

L-1

[crypto]

This is stupid. SSBF continues to be hella scummy and he'd better be on a helluva short leash tomorrow. Am I the only one who finds AlmasterGM (vaguely) suspicious?

[podium123456]

yes, this

is

stupid imo. nopoint you should unvote.

Since I doubt you're a death miller, the only way to find out about your alignment now is to lynch you. If you're a miller, town still has a major advantage over scums.

this half way makes me want to lynch you right freaking now. if you think he isnt a death miller and is lying, and we lynch him... then we still wont know if he's telling the truth. we find out NOTHING about his alignment by lynching him. think.

i wish some of the people on this nopoint train would fill me in on why you are handing mafia what they want, instead of just having the gunsmith investigate overnight.

[podium123456]

DONT ACT LIKE YOU AREN'T PRESSING REFRESH EVERY 3 SECONDS, MAFIA. I CAN SMELL YOU.

[AlmasterGM]

To rehash all this garbage about balance because somebody asked: I think cop+gunsmith+miller is balanced, esp since we don't know what scum roles there are (could be GF or something). I don't see why everyone is getting all fussy about the gunsmith claim meaning SSBF is scum. IMO, that was a bad claim to make, but whatever. Don't get me wrong, I think SSBF is scummy - but not because of that. I think the correct move is let both him live a day.

@charter / people voting noup-whatverhisnameis - Crypto's got it right - I am still confused as to why you wouldn't gunsmith on the miller claim. Yeah, you can say "I could've used it somewhere else," but using it to clear/indict someone who will otherwise be a huge pain in the ass later seems pretty useful for the town.

ANYWAY, there are multiple scummy people here, but the only one who doesn't have some sort of excuse is llama. My old and tired vote stays where it is.

[crypto]

That was very town of you, podium. Nicely done.

[SpyreX]

THIS IS A BAD LYNCH

SCOOP SCOOP

REGARDLESS THIS IS THE WORST LYNCH

Llama is better if no one wants to man up and take care of business. Lynching the death miller is absolutely a waste and I'm disgusted by it.

[nopointinactingup]

@nopointinactingup: You originally claimed Miller. Then you later said "I'm a Death Miller". Why didn't you claim Death Miller during your Miller claim early in the Day? On top of that, I heard that Death Miller's role are controversial and extremely rare. Right now, I'm no longer believing nopointinactingup's claim.

Right Day1 like I really have something to contribute that much. I told you I'm not the kind to make analysis on Day1 because I think it's easy for me to be right as it is to be wrong. If you guys are measuring the amount of scum-hunting and "doing something" in Day1 then you are obviously either bluffing or think you're doing more than you're really doing. Lynching me will certainly put you guys in a huge disadvantage and you know exactly why.

1. I don't like how you're basically saying we don't have much to contribute. Now it is true that we have the least amount of information to work on Day 1, but I'm not going to let that stop me from finding scums.

2. Games can go a lot faster then this game and I'm talking about Mini Normal's. One ongoing game I'm in started after this game accumlated over 400 posts in Day 1 and is currently in Day 2.

3. hiphop said it best when he said that if you are a miller, town is still at an advantage with two investigative roles.

You NEED to know who I am. That information is INVALUABLE to the town.

Since I doubt you're a death miller, the only way to find out about your alignment now is to lynch you. If you're a miller, town still has a major advantage over scums.

I also realized that nopointinactingup has been acting defensive with his recent posts. Combined with his self-vote and I think nopointinactingup is a better lynch candidate then llamaeatataco.

unvote, Vote: nopointinactingup

L-1

My role is a Town Miller, but with an ability of a deathmiller, that is revealed mafia in lynch and investigation. Ask the mod if you want more clarification.
Now that I've found our scums,

Unvote

. Only the scums would fail to realize or fail to heed the consequence of lynching me.

FOS: Hiphop, Wicked, SSFB

Let's see I'd put SSFB above all, but he has a role claim.

Vote:Hiphop

[podium123456]

I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Of course, crypto looks good because he could have hammered nopoint and didnt. And lets not forgot he also removed a well-justified nopoint vote back at L-3. I like those plays. A lot.

Hiphop moves up my scum ladder here...

FOS: Hiphop

[podium123456]

Am I the only one who finds AlmasterGM (vaguely) suspicious?

No.

[crypto]

Wanna wagon him real quick?

[hiphop]

that SSBF and Nopo are both the same alignment. On that thinking, if we lynch SSBF in worst case we get a 'confirmed' townie in Nopo, without any real risk.

Now you lost me. How is it that if SSBF is town, so is nopo? If SSBF is a real cop, what makes it that nopo did not fake claim? I can see the other way around.

not so sure about this lynching nopoint stuff. for one, he is pushing to not get lynched and be investigated... which is in his favor. if he was scum, and knew he was going to be investigated if he isnt lynched, the best move for him would be to get lynched... it would serve to confuse town.

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

THIS IS A BAD LYNCH

SCOOP SCOOP

REGARDLESS THIS IS THE WORST LYNCH

Llama is better if no one wants to man up and take care of business. Lynching the death miller is absolutely a waste and I'm disgusted by it.

Want to bet? Watch this.

You agree that there is an investigative role as shown here. Also shown there you believe that is Charter. You also believe that nopo needs further attention if charter is telling the truth as shown here. (Or the way I interpret it is scum, if ssbf is)
Therefore
SSBF or Charter is telling the truth-->Believe it is Charter--->if ssbf is scum, so is nopo--->Believe nopo is scum.

Tell me that isn't logical. My way of thinking looks like this
SSBF is flat out scummy-->No way a miller can be in this game without a cop---> Believe there is only 2 scum--->SSBF is scum, so is nopo---> Want to give SSBF the chance of using his ability---> Therefore vote the scum by connection--->vote nopo.

And no Spyrex, I am not lynching llama, especially knowing that he cannot claim. Am not willing to blind lynch.

SSBF Hate this. Makes me want to re-evaluate my vote, knowing scum is on this wagon, however there is nobody that I can rush lynch in one day.

Only the scums would fail to realize or fail to heed the consequence of lynching me.

FOS: Hiphop, Wicked, SSFB

Let's see I'd put SSFB above all, but he has a role claim.

Vote:Hiphop

See Almaster that is OMGUS.

Consequences? What? Let me explain something to you. A miller is nothing but a deranged VANILLA townie. If you are one, you get nothing but your voice and vote, just like any other VANILLA townie.

As for you saying that when you flip guilty the town will be confused- How so? You are guilty. it doesn't matter whether you are alive or dead. The town will still not know your alignment.

Your last vote on crypto was because he was lurking. Why are you any different? You say you cannot provide anything till day 2, why not him too? Go get a real case, and defense.

Anybody who is not on a wagon that is possibly heading for a lynch, should be looking at other wagons. That includes Sando, and Podium.

mod when exactly will deadline be on the 30th, because if it is in the morning, my last post of the day will be on the 29th.

[crypto]

SSBF is flat out scummy-->No way a miller can be in this game without a cop---> Believe there is only 2 scum--->SSBF is scum, so is nopo

This is exactly what I thought.

[podium123456]

Hiphop, you didnt answer my question:

"I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch."

and/or How is a nopoint lynch not a win-win for mafia?

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

So you don't want to let nopoint live because you think there is a RB and they will block charter. Interesting that the possibility of a RB hasnt been discussed (to my knowledge) until a few ticks before nopoint almost gets lynched.

Fear of a RB is a weak reason to lynch nopoint, imo. The reward is worth the risk. We lynch nopoint and we will

never

know the truth behind a large majority of D1 actions. If charter gets rblocked, then the same would apply. However, if there is no rb, then we would obtain extremely valuable information.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Llama is better if no one wants to man up and take care of business. Lynching the death miller is absolutely a waste and I'm disgusted by it.

Spyrex, if you think there is only one investigative role, and that it's charter... why aren't you voting for ssbf? You would probably have a good shot at getting enough votes.

[hiphop]

Hiphop, you didnt answer my question:

"I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch."

and/or How is a nopoint lynch not a win-win for mafia?

For the simple fact that he is mafia. Why would mafia drive up a wagon, when he is a mislynch any day? Why would mafia drive up a wagon on their scum buddy when llama can be mis-lynched instead? That simple. Don't say well llama is scum, so they don't want to lynch him. Llama is not voting for nopo, therefore he is not driving a nopo lynch. And if llama were scum, scum is not driving a nopo lynch.

Isn't a win-win, a win on both accounts? Not seeing a win when nopo flips scum.

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

So you don't want to let nopoint live because you think there is a RB and they will block charter. Interesting that the possibility of a RB hasnt been discussed (to my knowledge) until a few ticks before nopoint almost gets lynched.

And he can be killed. And yes it has been discussed. Someone mentioned it between the claims and now. Also just because nobody discussed it does not mean it isn't there. Also a rb is up the air as much as a protective role. Or are you saying we have one of those?

Fear of a RB is a weak reason to lynch nopoint, imo. The reward is worth the risk. We lynch nopoint and we will

never

know the truth behind a large majority of D1 actions. If charter gets rblocked, then the same would apply. However,

if

there is no rb, then we would obtain extremely valuable information.

The if that I bolded is only an if. Like I said or he gets killed. I am not expecting him to flip goon, but scum pr. And when he does come back and read this-I told you so.

I am looking at two scum and only 2 scum in this setup. SSBF, and Nopo And am not in the mood to lynch a townie at the moment, when we can lynch scum.

You are still voting for Sando. Why? Do you think he will be the lynch? If so, why are you not pushing a case?

[podium123456]

Hiphop, you didnt answer my question:

"I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch."

and/or How is a nopoint lynch not a win-win for mafia?

For the simple fact that he is mafia. Why would mafia drive up a wagon, when he is a mislynch any day? Why would mafia drive up a wagon on their scum buddy when llama can be mis-lynched instead?

My point really wasn't why would mafia push a nopoint lynch, its why would town push a lynch that pleases mafia? I guarantee they would rather see us lynch someone whose alignment is never revealed versus a VT. Lynching a VT would at least give us info we could use.

Also, the fact that we have the ability (though not 100%) to reveal the alignment tomorrow, strengthens the case for town not to push the lynch. or at least not as much as we might with a miller only claim. (or even a miller plus town cop claim)

Isn't a win-win, a win on both accounts? Not seeing a win when nopo flips scum.

If he's town, town never knows his alignment. If he's maf, town never knows his alignment.

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

So you don't want to let nopoint live because you think there is a RB and they will block charter. Interesting that the possibility of a RB hasnt been discussed (to my knowledge) until a few ticks before nopoint almost gets lynched.

And he can be killed. And yes it has been discussed. Someone mentioned it between the claims and now. Also just because nobody discussed it does not mean it isn't there. Also a rb is up the air as much as a protective role. Or are you saying we have one of those?

Id say that betting on a protective role is a safer bet than on a maf roleblocker. Also, you're betting on there being only one investigative role here, which i consider a somewhat weak bet.

I understand you're probably not going to change your mind, but i feel i am making a decent case for others to read... and for me to help affirm my own opinion. Most of the faults you find in my reasoning can be flipped back at you, so either option appears close in terms of the proper move... a lot of it falls back on personal assumptions about what setup we are working with.

I am looking at two scum and only 2 scum in this setup. SSBF, and Nopo And am not in the mood to lynch a townie at the moment, when we can lynch scum.

That resembles mafia speak, imo.

You are still voting for Sando. Why? Do you think he will be the lynch? If so, why are you not pushing a case?

I think sando is still a pretty solid candidate. I think maf is/was pushing llama. This recent activity is making some other lynches look increasingly attractive... like spyrex...

and you.

[Sando]

I think sando is still a pretty solid candidate. I think maf is/was pushing llama. This recent activity is making some other lynches look increasingly attractive... like spyrex...

That's a top notch argument for a lynch there... He asked why you're not pushing a case if you actually want me lynched?

Now you lost me. How is it that if SSBF is town, so is nopo? If SSBF is a real cop, what makes it that nopo did not fake claim? I can see the other way around.

Well yeah, other way round is obvious, but I think it's nearly as likely town-ways. Put it this way, if 1 of them is scum, I'm 90% sure the other is scum. If 1 of them is town, I'm 75% sure the other is town. It's not quite as good odds, but I still like those odds.

Anybody who is not on a wagon that is possibly heading for a lynch, should be looking at other wagons. That includes Sando, and Podium.

My vote will move in the next few hours to try and ensure a lynch, as tonight will be my last posting pre-deadline. Lynching a claimed death-miller is a mistake I feel, but it's certainly better than a no-lynch. Nopo's 'I'm going to vote myself, ahah! anyone that voted me is scummy' is pretty silly at this stage as well, well it's silly at any stage, but it's stupid to play around like that so close to deadline, puts Nopo well up in scum-stakes.

[Hayker]

mod when exactly will deadline be on the 30th, because if it is in the morning, my last post of the day will be on the 29th.

That is a bad oversight on my part. 12 PM PST

[charter]

Podium's recent defense of Nopoint is superbad. Mafia wouldn't want him to be lynched if he's scum, though now a bunch of you are going to assume he is town after he flips scum. You completely discount the possibility of Nopoint being scum.

I'd go for a Podium or Llama lynch if we're allowing the scumbags to live another day.

[podium123456]

Podium's recent defense of Nopoint is superbad. Mafia wouldn't want him to be lynched if he's scum, though now a bunch of you are going to assume he is town after he flips scum. You completely discount the possibility of Nopoint being scum.

I'd go for a Podium or Llama lynch if we're allowing the scumbags to live another day.

The only reason i am against it is because we can find out his true alignment. If something happens so that we dont lynch nopoint and we get no info on him tomorrow, then we lynch. I dont see the harm in trying to investigate him once, especially when this is D1.