Newbie 977- A Death in Sudotopia, Scum Wins!

[PieMan]

Could you plz post a post number. All I can see, is the ideas of circumstantial evidence, on the basis of how someone is acting, yes its a possible read, but I think with throwing a wifom as your only evidence to date, I think that would anger the person involved, which throws possible ateish type tells all out of whack.

as for trying to reexplain my case, can someone else do it, cause half the people in this game cant hear a word I say.

[Trendall]

READ MY FUCKING POSTS, PEOPLE. Foilist is taking my posts out of context, and you are agreeing with his case based on that, instead of going back and reading wtf I have to say to make sure he's not spindoctoring it. Scummy scummy scum scum.

Friend, Trendall, when Foilist flips scum or I flip town I expect people to remember you buddying up to his case.

No. When I first read the post that you said that in (#358), I was amazed that you were questioning Foilist13 for being suspicious of the IC. We should all be suspicious of everyone, IC or not. It was just ridiculous. And again, I formed that opinion by myself, upon first reading of your post. I imagine Friend probably formed that opinion on his own too. Foilist13 just happened to point it out before we did. Just because two or more players come to the same conclusion independently, it doesn't mean that they're working together.

[foilist13]

A WIFOM as my only evidence to date? Are you even reading the thread?

1) Your play makes more sense as scum than town.
2) You lied in order to discredit me.
3) You try and make everyone think you're above suspicion.

This is my case. None of these things are WIFOM.

[PieMan]

In gaming, it's any kind of game or subgame, especially a psychological one, in which a player is given a set of apparently equal choices where one or more is completely wrong.

1 The accusation associated with this, screams WIFOM to me
2 Plz show, want to make sure if its true it does not slip into the shadows.
3 I believe the reason this point is invalid, and this is where opinion plays comparatively, is the fact that I see very little evidence that Euro is mafia. And I believe they were reacting to the fact of a BS claim against them.

Now if 2 holds weight, then 3 can be counted as having more weight.

[foilist13]

1) The concept of WIFOM is a logical progression and can be clearly shown if applicable. Show it.

2)

The very accusation of lying is in itself a lie. Nothing in this post is anything but theory, conjecture, and at the end a disclaimer which is why it does not amount to a vote. None of this is based on factual information, and therefore cannot be a lie.

Her lie is saying that I lied. A theory by its very nature cannot be a lie. She is lying in order to discredit me, which is the scummiest thing I can think of.

3) There is a huge difference between over reacting and trying to be above suspicion. Part of her defense was "you throw suspicion on me on D1." That is

RIDICULOUS

. Suspicion and pressure should always be on every player in order to perpetuate a pro-town environment.

[foilist13]

2.) OMGUS is bad. Don't do it. It is okay to vote someone who is voting for you

if you have a good reason that you are able to articulate

, but if your reason for voting for that person is because you're pissed at them for voting you, don't do it.

Look, Esurio measures up to her own scum tell. This day is over. We've found the first scum. Tomorrow we need to look at who she gives special treatment to, and if there are any connections. She has tried to respond to my case on her, and has only succeeded in committing more scum tells. She's had her chance, and if she were town she would have used it rather than try and discredit.

[Robocopter87]

Foilist, you want a Esurio lynch. if it comes down to it, I will help in this lynch, but for now My vote is on Pieman. If Esurio gets to L-1 and claims and we don't like it. I will not hesitate to hammer.

[foilist13]

@Robo: I can accept that.

[Robocopter87]

Well, I wasn't asking your opinion but I'll be nice and say, Kthx.

[PieMan]

1 ok, your original concept or w/e you want to call it, was essentially you are acting to town to be town, or you are posting in such a way that you are actively stalking, essentially the way you are posting is helpful, but not up to the potential of an IC, therefore, it is more likely that you are a mafia compared to a townie.
I also dislike the use of WIFOM as a scum tell, but thats because I tend to try and look at things from both sides.

2

For instance, she said that I am not a beacon of towniness.

plz give a post #, I know it happened, but just want a number. Personally at p150, you did do a play that seemed untownie, at least in my eyes, so if its after that point, Im gonna call it, a good call.

I would also like to point out, that SD p170 did something very similar to this, by accusing Euro, of steering the village, and even Bean did earlier in terms of Almaster and Trendall, and I bet there are more.

could you give a good example of her flakiness of her votes towards people, besides the one on you.

I dont see the active lurking, which is the lie as stated. Yes she has been posting every other day or something like that, but she has also been posting walls of info, a lot of it really good. Im going to check her other games, but if that's her play style, then I dont see how that holds water.

3 Your suspicion has like no real backbone, its all based on a lot of circumstantial evidence, while there is a lot more evidence saying, about half of this game is a big time mafia family, that somehow has grown to like 7 people.

Really if I could, and know it wouldnt kill the game, I seriously want to lynch everyone who is making these stupid pacts, that should be a huge scum tell in these games, but apparently everyone uses them willy nilly.

[foilist13]

1)

1 ok, your original concept or w/e you want to call it, was essentially you are acting to town to be town, or you are posting in such a way that you are actively stalking, essentially the way you are posting is helpful, but not up to the potential of an IC, therefore, it is more likely that you are a mafia compared to a townie.
I also dislike the use of WIFOM as a scum tell, but thats because I tend to try and look at things from both sides.

My theory has absolutely nothing to do with being too townie to be town. Get that out of your mind. The theory is that her play makes more sense as scum than as town. The theory could apply totally irrespective of how townie she was being. This is not WIFOM.

2) That quote is not the lie I am referring to, or anything close. I really don't see how it is relevant. It was a minor part of my case which is not necessary to the success of failure of the theory. I said when I posted it that there were two sides of it, why are you acting now like I didn't?

3) I don't know what you're saying, I'm sorry. My suspicion

started

as circumstantial evidence, but it has evolved into much more than that. She committed two concrete scum tells: 1) Lying to discredit her attacker, and 2) trying to place herself above suspicion. What exactly is weak about this?

[PieMan]

1 ok were arguing symantics you say its not, and i will say it is, and it just doesnt change a thing

but you are saying, tell me if im wrong, that if she is a scum, shes playing hardcore good, while if she is a townie shes playing, eh.

Its just one of those things, without anything else, it just seems like searching for a reason to kill someone you want out.

2 You may need to read the second half of that post, it should address the lie, or I could use a post number to know exactly which lie you speak of.

3 1I dont think she truly lied there. 2 Maybe you have a point there, but im calling it only enough to keep my eye.

4.1 Yeh, I think I probably put that quote in the wrong spot, It was really just trying to understand how you have not seemed, to be a possible maf for some time now. Which one of your points was her throwing suspicion on people.

[Robocopter87]

Can't we just kill Pieman instead?

[Trendall]

UNVOTE: Robocopter87

Forgot to do that earlier.

[foilist13]

@Robo: Don't you think there is more to gain from Esurio's lynch? If she flips scum, it would make sense that Pieman is scum with her due to his defense of her. If we lynch him and he flips scum his defense could easily be passed off as buddying.

[Robocopter87]

No, I think that by lynching Pieman we will have a better chance of doing something good.

I want a Pieman lynch, maybe Esurio can be held off till Day two?

[foilist13]

Hmm.... Maybe. I'm hesitant to let this go.

I'm going to put myself out on a limb here by bringing this up. If Esurio flips scum you'll know that I was right, but if she flips town it will lend credibility to everything she's been saying and indicate to you that I am scum. I'm pretty confident in my read, so I don't think that will be much of a problem. Obviously you don't know my alignment though, so this is relevant information to you.

Her flip gives you information on Pieman and on me. Pieman's flip only gives you limited information on her. This is the best lynch for today, though I'm happy to go after Pieman tomorrow.

[Robocopter87]

unvote

VOTE: Esurio

[Friend]

Okay, I'll bite.

UNVOTE: Robocopter
VOTE: Esurio

If he flips scum, notice the change in thought.

"Hm, I don't want to lynch my scumbuddy, can we just lynch him tomorrow?"
"No, he's the best lynch for today"
"Okay, I'll bus but not acknowledge anything good about your case, just hop on the bandwagon so it doesn't look like I was defending esurio when this lynch goes through"

[Sudo_Nym]

Vote Count

:
esuriospiritus L-2: foilist13, robocopter, Friend
foilist13 L-3: esuriospritus, PieMan
robocopter87 L-4: sd75
PieMan L-4: Super Smash Bros. Fan
Super Smash Bros. Fan L-4: AlmasterGM

[Trendall]

I realize I'm not doing Robo a huge favour here saying this considering my own position right now, but I

still

think Robo is town and will not be participating in his lynch unless it comes down to him vs me.

Woah. I don't like this one bit. You're saying that you would vote for a player whom you considered to be town, just to save your own ass? That strikes me as being totally anti-town.

[Robocopter87]

Trendall please put Esurio at L-1. Don't resist the urge.

Once he does, Please claim Esurio.

[Trendall]

Just reading back through everything at the moment.

[PieMan]

Yeh, we got what 9 days left, plenty of time to lynch, plus no noes explained why they threw a straw man attack at me earlier.

Well Robo, could be mafia, but eusurio knows that he is not mafia, so it is a gambit, but being that eusurio, is the probably better player, id understand that gambit, plus theres the alignment with foilist, which i consider highly questionable.

It should be noted, my flip would prove a possible allegiance to bean and or eusurio, though personally ive been defending eusur against a POS case.

Ok, now for the breakdown of post 439
assuming whoever dies is not mafia

eusurio
mafia gains smart player dead, one who has not done scummy things,im an easy second day target

Me
mafia gains dead townie, then they have to find a second day target.

p443 can you reexplain what you meant there, I think you mean If eusurio flips scum notice my change of thought, Ill make it easy for you, if he does ill be confused, but i expect to be dead day 2 no matter, unless we get a mafia dead in day 1.

[PieMan]

and Trendall since your reading back, please make a note of how scumtastic foil has been.