Change the Mini Normal limit from 12 to 13.

[Zachrulez]

I don't understand what you're getting at, Zach. Minis are by far the most popular game-type on the site... shifting the 'new mods' from Mini Normal to Micro Normal Closed (or whatever) isn't likely to help with demand, since this is literally the first time I've seen an outcry for smaller games since I joined the site. It'll help slightly with Thok's Law, but I'm not at all sure that will overcome the increase in complexity and fracturing of demand. How will limits work with Micros? Could you be in 4 Minis and 7 Micros? Etc... like I said, you

can

run smaller games in the Mini Queues right now, they're just uncommon. I think that should tell us something about demand, especially from the mod side. The Open Queue (Zito's recent game aside, sorry dude) seems to handle that "I want to get through as fast as possible" side, and Mini Normal is for those who want to run their own game, within limits.

The requirement thing is just a suggestion. Personally, from a player standpoint, I'd like to see more smaller games, so I'd be happy just having a que for it if it came down to just that.

[Zachrulez]

Though from a mod standpoint, I suspect that there would actually be a lot more people trying to mod large games if the requirements were as easy as the mini normal games.

[Nobody Special]

If you want a superfast game, just go play in the Open Queue. Most of what they play in there is 5p Vengeful and 6p Lovers and other games that you can be done with in a Day or two.

and where you know the roles beforehand.

Sure that can be fun and is what I'm mostly doing now, but a "mini" mini with a closed setup simply doesn't exist anymore.

(Potentially) Stupid question:

Can Open setups be run outside of the Open Queue?

[Max]

Yes, they can.

[Vi]

The catch being that if you have an Open setup that's any good, you should be bringing it up to the Open Setup review thread.

That way we'll play your setup instead of these silly 5P Vengeful refugees from the Marathon forum

That reminds me, I need to put the Sliding Scale of Openness on the wiki.

[Vi]

5P Vengeful - 25
--
--
--
Bird 7P - 14
--
Lovers Mafia - 12
--
--
--
Two of Four - 8
Friends and Enemies, either 2, 3, or 4 scum/masons - 8
--
Pie E7 - 7
Trendy and Subversive v1 - 7
--
Vanilla Nightless or some variant thereof - 6
Fire and Ice - 6
Polygamist Mafia - 6
--
Varying ratios of Mountainous - 5
Near Vanilla - 5
Crush Nightless - 5
Assassin in the Palace - 5
Jungle Republic - 5
JK9 - 5
--
Carbon-14 - 4
Texas Justice - 4
The New C9 - 4
--
Basic Twelve Player - 3
Masons and Monks - 3
C9 - 3
C9+2 - 3
C/9 - 3
Alternating C9 - 3
Night Watch - 3
Strawberry - 3
Jester Mafia - 3
Mini Love - 3
Trendy and Subversive v3 - 3
--
Quack Mafia - 2
Definite C9 - 2
Big Love - 2
Picking Simplicity - 2
Medical Mafia - 2
Baby Too Much Scum - 2
Mountainous Multiball - 2
Friends and Enemies and Enemies - 2
True Love - 2
Unclean Mafia - 2
Gurgi EC8 - 2
Paris Mafia - 2
Bad Tweed - 2
SCIENCE! - 2
--
Tit for Tat - 1
Hard Boiled - 1
My Name is Earl - 1
Ninja Mafia - 1
Immunity Mafia - 1
Switch Setup - 1
Double Cop - 1
Yoguraimee C9 - 1
Pick Your Poison - 1
Dethy - 1
Twofold Mafia - 1
Two-fold Mafia - 1
Friends and Enemies 2.0 - 1
Quack Multiball - 1
Double Day - 1
Lovers Multiball - 1
Trendy and Subversive v? - 1
Mayo Clinic - 1
Friends and Enemies and Enemies and That Other Guy - 1
Impotence Mafia - 1
Weak M.D. - 1
Don't Cut the

Red

Wire! - 1
Tread Carefully - 1
Follow the Cop... or Not - 1
Rebels in the Palace - 1
2:10 Bugs Bunny - 1
1-shot C9 - 1
3 of 5 - 1

For whoever wants it. Someone with more experience than me can tell me which of these have been discredited already. Any omissions are my fault for doing this late at night.

@Flay: Probably.

[Mr. Flay]

Red Wire is discredited, that's the only one I'm certain of. Oh, and I don't recall if Dethy is still allowed.

[Vi]

Red Wire is out, Dethy is out, Texas Justice is out, SCIENCE! is not out but kind of a joke, Jester Mafia should be out the way it was run. IIRC one of the Palace games was on the list too. Baby Too Much Scum was also frowned upon IIRC.

[yabbaguy]

I'm ignoring all advice and blindly trusting the Wiki, but apparently Jungle Republic trumps Baby... Scum, my guess likely being due to the unusual mechanics (lyncher and limited reveal).

Switch needs a revamp. I liked reading that minus the ridiculous imbalance.

[Vi]

I'm ignoring all advice and blindly trusting the Wiki, but apparently Jungle Republic trumps Baby... Scum, my guess likely being due to the unusual mechanics (lyncher and limited reveal).

I distinctly remember complaints about Mafia being too hard to find in Baby Too Much Scum (because they can't kill so they can distance all they want and it comes down to witch-hunting), plus it sounds like a terrible R&B song.

[Ythan]

Farside is allowing me to select a game from this list to mod. Am I to understand that a higher number means a more open game?

[nhammen]

No, it means the number of times it has been run

[farside22]

No, it means the number of times it has been run

This ^

Also I would like to see c++ added to that list of open games

[farside22]

5P Vengeful - 25
--
--
--
Bird 7P - 14
--
Lovers Mafia - 12
--
--
--
Two of Four - 8
Friends and Enemies, either 2, 3, or 4 scum/masons - 8
--
Pie E7 - 7
Trendy and Subversive v1 - 7
--
Vanilla Nightless or some variant thereof - 6
Fire and Ice - 6
Polygamist Mafia - 6
--
Varying ratios of Mountainous - 5
Near Vanilla - 5
Crush Nightless - 5
Assassin in the Palace - 5
Jungle Republic - 5
JK9 - 5
--
Carbon-14 - 4
Texas Justice - 4
The New C9 - 4
--
Basic Twelve Player - 3
Masons and Monks - 3
C9 - 3
C9+2 - 3
C/9 - 3
Alternating C9 - 3
Night Watch - 3
Strawberry - 3
Jester Mafia - 3
Mini Love - 3
Trendy and Subversive v3 - 3
--
Quack Mafia - 2
Definite C9 - 2
Big Love - 2
Picking Simplicity - 2
Medical Mafia - 2
Baby Too Much Scum - 2
Mountainous Multiball - 2
Friends and Enemies and Enemies - 2
True Love - 2
Unclean Mafia - 2
Gurgi EC8 - 2
Paris Mafia - 2
Bad Tweed - 2
SCIENCE! - 2
--
Tit for Tat - 1
Hard Boiled - 1
My Name is Earl - 1
Ninja Mafia - 1
Immunity Mafia - 1
Switch Setup - 1
Double Cop - 1
Yoguraimee C9 - 1
Pick Your Poison - 1
Twofold Mafia - 1
Two-fold Mafia - 1
Friends and Enemies 2.0 - 1
Quack Multiball - 1
Double Day - 1
Lovers Multiball - 1
Trendy and Subversive v? - 1
Mayo Clinic - 1
Friends and Enemies and Enemies and That Other Guy - 1
Impotence Mafia - 1
Weak M.D. - 1
Tread Carefully - 1
Follow the Cop... or Not - 1
2:10 Bugs Bunny - 1
1-shot C9 - 1
3 of 5 - 1
C++ - 1

I took off games from this list that are not allowed and using this as a reference to those who will mod an open game.
There will still be discussion for new open game idea's as well.

[Ythan]

Do you mean C9++?

[Vi]

Do you mean C9++?

No, mafiascum is holding programming classes out the back door.

[shaft.ed]

I don't understand what you're getting at, Zach. Minis are by far the most popular game-type on the site... shifting the 'new mods' from Mini Normal to Micro Normal Closed (or whatever) isn't likely to help with demand, since this is literally the first time I've seen an outcry for smaller games since I joined the site. It'll help slightly with Thok's Law, but I'm not at all sure that will overcome the increase in complexity and fracturing of demand. How will limits work with Micros? Could you be in 4 Minis and 7 Micros? Etc... like I said, you

can

run smaller games in the Mini Queues right now, they're just uncommon. I think that should tell us something about demand, especially from the mod side. The Open Queue (Zito's recent game aside, sorry dude) seems to handle that "I want to get through as fast as possible" side, and Mini Normal is for those who want to run their own game, within limits.

The requirement thing is just a suggestion. Personally, from a player standpoint, I'd like to see more smaller games, so I'd be happy just having a que for it if it came down to just that.

There's nothing forcing a Mini Normal mod to run a 12 player game. In fact, I don't understand why smaller games haven't become common because it get's the mod through the pre-req stage faster. I think many new mods overlook the fine print.

[zoraster]

I think people over emphasize the "just doing it to get it over with it" aspect for normal games. Open games, yeah. I think that's true. Mini-normals, I do not think that is true.

[quadz08]

I think (as a prospective new mod sometime in the future myself) that having a "micro" queue could work well. You could keep them in the same forum, and even have people /in for them on the same thread (i.e., "/in for micro XXX" or "/in for mini XXX"). This would (I think?) cut down on waiting time for smaller games, by having more games open at once.