Newbie 988-Apocalypse(Over)-Scum win

[Makeorbreak]

VOTE: Montgomery
Because, Blair Waldorf is amazing.

[montgomery]

So that's an OMGUS. That's interesting.

[Beanman]

So why is your vote on tanstalas only semi-random? All I've seen from him so far since Day 1 is an RVS vote based on gender issues and an advertizing of an online game. Nothing that would strike me as suspicious.

Is this Scum trying to protect Scum?

This is actually town being curious. After reading tanstalas' posts so far you just got to be wondering why yabbaguy put a semi to his random vote (and he still hasn't given his reasoning on his vote so far). And this just might be a wee bit WIFOM-y, but a scum defednig his scumbuddy on a vote on the first day that has merely put him at L-3...even in a newbie game...I mean, c'mon, really?

And yes, I must say, I am a bit proud that my vote/reaction has moved us virtually out of the RVS

I can understand ur curiousity, but why does it matter that it's only day 1? I see fallacy written all over this.

[Dekes]

I can understand ur curiousity, but why does it matter that it's only day 1? I see fallacy written all over this.

You see fallacy written all over this? That is your accusation? Wow, way to attack without a leg to stand on.

Of course it matters that it's Day 1 if a person places a seriousl vote on another person after two posts which had effectively no game content at all (there's no semi-random btw, you either vote randomly without any reasoning/joke reasoning or you vote a specific person based on actual reasoning) while the rest of us had just started RVS. I didn't even FoS or vote yabba because I really wanted to know why he called it semi-random and if there was some subtle clue he might have detected. But the fact that I've seen him twice online already without leaving a post here that could anwer some of the questions leaves me with no other choice but to

Unvote; Vote: yabbaguy

I want him to talk.

[Adrien C]

Unvote
FoS: Dekes

Putting the second vote on the IC on Page 3? Not nice...

[Dekes]

Unvote
FoS: Dekes

Putting the second vote on the IC on Page 3? Not nice...

I'm really glad we have the IC and the SEs and I'm willing to learn if they point out any mistakes I make.

But in-game we are all equal and being an IC - while far more experienced than I am - does not exclude you from being mafia and in fact makes it even more dangerous.

[Jackabomb]

Vote count 0.3

Montgomery-

Tanstalas, Beanman, Makeorbreak;

Makeorbreak-

Montgomery;

Tanstalas-

kyle99, yabbaguy;

Beanman-

No one;

Dekes-

Tuxhedo;

yabbaguy-

Dekes;

Not voting-

Adrien C;

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or no lynch.

[yabbaguy]

@Dekes-43:

To be honest, it was about 70% laziness and 30% because I thought it would be kind of fitting to use random.org to determine a random vote.
So why is your vote on tanstalas only semi-random? All I've seen from him so far since Day 1 is an RVS vote based on gender issues and an advertizing of an online game. Nothing that would strike me as suspicious. Care to elaborate?

Mm, it was prior to D1, but remember him stating that RVS was going to get people talking? I wanted to check on what he meant by that, as I really have yet to see RVS actually produce a reaction. I'd argue that I started the game due to the fact that I questioned a stance.

If I'm settling for a randomizer, the game isn't going to start. Simple.

@Tux-44:

Is this Scum trying to protect Scum?

I'm puzzled how you arrive at that conclusion so hastily. As Adrien says, it could be scum-town, but YES, town-town defending exists. I'll admit it's typically ill-advised, but cross-defending is not necessarily a scumtell.

@tan-46:

Like I said - I'm still a mafia newbie, all the games I've seen throw joke votes around at the start, if anything it makes people more likely to throw a vote out themselves so we know they are actually here and not lurking. Also sometimes late game when we start to find out who scum is the joke votes at the start may give a clue on who else is scum.

Anything to get people posting is not a bad thing, in my opinion. And limited mafia experience.

I think you're overvaluing RVS though. I've yet to see a game where random votes are referred back to. If anything, I claim I started the game when I questioned the stance. That's how I like to do it, pick an argument of trivial sorts, catch a reaction, and see what I get.

I voted you semi-randomly because I'm just trying to check up on a stance that I really find questionable. I don't think RVS is a good way to start scumhunting. But I see where you're coming from now. (answers 48)

@Dekes-47:

This is actually town being curious. After reading tanstalas' posts so far you just got to be wondering why yabbaguy put a semi to his random vote (and he still hasn't given his reasoning on his vote so far). And this just might be a wee bit WIFOM-y, but a scum defednig his scumbuddy on a vote on the first day that has merely put him at L-3...even in a newbie game...I mean, c'mon, really?

And yes, I must say, I am a bit proud that my vote/reaction has moved us virtually out of the RVS

Like said, I contest it was my debating it that moved us out. And suggesting my explanation is

absent

is ridiculous.

Kyle's active lurking. Noted.

@Makeorbreak-50: Why in blazes are you still doing random voting? Crap has happened! Say stuff!

She's active lurking, too.

Active lurking is defined as someone who adds posts to the thread, but not necessarily content, in other words, it's just filler. I contest these are cases since kyle posted just to make a pointless remark on a username and Makeorbreak is making random votes after content has been generated.

It's an active display of not scumhunting, which is scummy to a degree.

@montgomery-51: Can you really discern anything from that? Also, remember that cross-voting is not always OMGUS, although they are random votes, so I can see what you mean.

@Dekes-53: I started to post, but then got tired. I'm not lurking.

Now the explanation's there. I start trivial arguments on purpose by semi-random voting in order to set off the fireworks that any Mafia game needs to begin. That simple.

@Adrien-54: That has me on edge. It feels a lot like you're putting a LOT of faith in me being Town whilst the rest of the game (inaccurately) is pegging me initially as scummy. I don't think the FoS has valid reasoning whatsoever.

Unvote, Vote: kyle99

for blatant active lurking.

[yabbaguy]

Tag on to @Adrien-54: Why settle for the FoS?

[Adrien C]

Do I know you're town yet? No. Do I know you're scum yet? No. However, until we have evidence even leaning towards the latter, you're a benefit to the newbies to at least learn the mechanics of the game, which I'm sure even if you are scum, you will at least give them an introductory course in. I was just uncomfortable with him bringing you to L-3 so quickly. As the IC, you're usually the first to die at night, so we need to use as much of this first day phase to let you do your IC duties. His reason for voting you also was by observing your online time, which is a reasoning I'm not too comfortable with using someone's online time against them. Plus, a personal quirk of mine is when my random vote starts having wagoners when mine was just random.

I only FoSed him because I'm not going to go out and say that he's scum.

As for who I'm leaning towards... VOTE: Makeorbreak

Lurking much?

[Tuxhedoh]

@Tux-44:

Is this Scum trying to protect Scum?

I'm puzzled how you arrive at that conclusion so hastily. As Adrien says, it could be scum-town, but YES, town-town defending exists. I'll admit it's typically ill-advised, but cross-defending is not necessarily a scumtell.

I'm not quite arriving at a conclusion.... if I were, I'd have said, "Check it out they're backing each other up, they are definitely scum. Everybody vote Dekes"

I was simply acknowledging what I thought was interesting and seeing if anyone wanted to add extra information, and they have - scum would not necessarily on D1 act in this fashion, in fact, might act oppositely...to throw suspicion on someone else... I get it now.

[yabbaguy]

@Adrien-59: I haven't been NK'd as IC once in the three games I've played, and being Mafia was only the reason 1 time out of 3. It's frankly just a reason that makes no sense.

@Tux-60: So the reaction's noted. It's worth flagging at least, but until a flip occurs one way or the other, that means nothing at this point.

[Beanman]

I can understand ur curiousity, but why does it matter that it's only day 1? I see fallacy written all over this.

You see fallacy written all over this? That is your accusation? Wow, way to attack without a leg to stand on.

Of course it matters that it's Day 1 if a person places a seriousl vote on another person after two posts which had effectively no game content at all (there's no semi-random btw, you either vote randomly without any reasoning/joke reasoning or you vote a specific person based on actual reasoning) while the rest of us had just started RVS. I didn't even FoS or vote yabba because I really wanted to know why he called it semi-random and if there was some subtle clue he might have detected. But the fact that I've seen him twice online already without leaving a post here that could anwer some of the questions leaves me with no other choice but to

Unvote; Vote: yabbaguy

I want him to talk.

It wasn't an accusation. It was an observation, that you yourself semi-backed in your post saying it was a "wee-bit WIFOM-y"

[Beanman]

Unvote

Did not like someone hitting L-2 on RVS, and I do find it a bit opportunistic of Makeorbreak to jump that wagon.

[Adrien C]

RVS, for the most part, is over.

[Dekes]

Mm, it was prior to D1, but remember him stating that RVS was going to get people talking? I wanted to check on what he meant by that, as I really have yet to see RVS actually produce a reaction. I'd argue that I started the game due to the fact that I questioned a stance.

Okay, I see now what happened here. I originally had overlooked #22 by tanstalas and thus I figured this part:

How do you suppose RVS is going to invoke reactions from people at this point in the game?

was meant to generally stimulate any kind of reaction/discussion. So I was wondering why you put the semi-random vote in front of it. But after reading tanstalas' last pre-Day 1 post I can see now what you were referring to. My bad.
Now that I have the info I was was looking for I can

Unvote

@Adrien C

I don't know if it's just me but I don't find an L-3 in a 9-player game that alarming at all. It's not even halfway to the lynch. Montgomery has practically been RVS'D to L-2 and no one's addressed it yet (until Beanman posted).
And by far not every vote is placed with the intention directed towards a lynch. It's one of the better possibilities especially early on in the game to provoke reactions/get answers. And like I said, I did get the information that I asked for/previously missed

@Beanman

The WIFOM-y part has nothing to do with the part you orignially pointed out. The WIFOM-y bit was me responding to the people who suggested that I might be buddying with tanstalas while your point (which led to the "Why does it matter it's Day 1?"-debate) was me wondering why someone would put a serious vote with no reasoning at all on page 2. But that has been pretty much cleared up now as far as I'm concerned.

And now I'm looking forward to seeing more from kyle99, montgomery and especially Makeorbreak.

[tanstalas]

I think you're overvaluing RVS though. I've yet to see a game where random votes are referred back to. If anything, I claim I started the game when I questioned the stance. That's how I like to do it, pick an argument of trivial sorts, catch a reaction, and see what I get.

I voted you semi-randomly because I'm just trying to check up on a stance that I really find questionable. I don't think RVS is a good way to start scumhunting. But I see where you're coming from now. (answers 48)

@ yabba - I also asked why you were looking for a deadline after only 2 days IRL and only on day 1 of the game? Usually when I see that I get wary of the person as it makes them seem to want to get to night asap. Which could mean a few things. Either you are scum and want to kill someone, you have some super-duper awesome townie power or you just want to know if there is a deadline for the sake of knowing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt for now and assume you didn't see that part of the question in my last reply.

Unvote

FoS: yabba

Just FoS'ing to get your attention and to get your answer.

[tanstalas]

Quick question, can someone tell me what WIFOM-y and OMGUS mean?

Thanks, not used to these acronyms

[Adrien C]

Wine In Front of Me
Oh My God You Suck

[yabbaguy]

Right, that. I overlook questions sometimes. This is more my opinion, but dodging questions is NOT a scumtell because you can't verify whether it was a reading error (which it was) or whether it's them shirking it off.

Just about every other Newbie game I've seen states a deadline once the Day starts, so I'm slightly startled Jack isn't stating it up front, but that's just me and my old-style expectations. To suggest that I am opportunistic scum wanting to hurry the Day up is an absurd claim, I merely wanted to double-check on Jack.

It says clearly that the deadline is a fixed 3 weeks. There's categorically no way I could be negotiating anything about deadline terms.

@tan: WIFOM, I already explained in my first post, although it got turned into an adverb now. It's the looping logic pattern.

OMGUS - Oh My God You Suck, voting someone MERELY BECAUSE they voted you. If the retailiator has reasoning beyond "sucking", then it's not OMGUS.

[Makeorbreak]

Unvote

[Beanman]

@Dekes. It was all in the same sentence, so I'm actually not wrong in the slightest.

[Makeorbreak]

My vote was hardly random, as I was being targeted for my icon, is that not reason to vote for Montgomery. I do not like being threatened on a personal, level, so if you wish not to see a

[Violation of Rule 14]

, step off.

[Adrien C]

Makeorbreak, that kind of attitude is not very good for the spirit of the game and frowned upon at MS.

[Makeorbreak]

I am like crying right now, because I am being attacked.