New York 116 - Prozacs Large Normal - Who won?

[Stef]

@Benmage: No, the tubby vote was a vote for him actively lurking. Far from a policy lynch, I'm sure you'll agree.
@Toog: No, he didn't just ask for people's stances, he actually suggested a policy lynch here.

^This comes off a little forced as a pro-town stance. Not really feeling you at the moment Stef. Your observations thus far don't come off as scum hunting but just posts for appearance. FoS Stef

I'd rather be redundant than regret it later. Enough newbies in this game warrants a little extra care.

@Sandman:

Why does that make you think mothrax is town? Do you not think Raven's scummy any more?

I said townie brownie, not Mothrax = town. Second, I gave him a townie brownie because he didn't back off when pressured for his vote.

About the last question in the above quote, reread the ending of my post and you will find your answer. Pay attention.

@AGar

L-1 is a pressure cooker for making scum break, and as long as you don't have idiot-town, it'll work out in the end. Wraith was saying "No one should be at L-1 until we have 8 more pages." Why does it have to be 8? Why couldn't digi be put at L-1 right then and there? Why not push him a little harder?

It is not damn scummy. It is just failed logic on his behalf as it does not give any advantage to scum. Also, too many trigger happy players to put someone L-1 so early in the game.

And, no, my theory isn't crap if I'm not suggesting a Wraith/Digi scumteam. Wraith could be scum trying to appear very townie by promoting extended discussion and also trying to deter a Digi wagon if he knows Digi to be town. That was the theory, that was what you're missing in my points.

Alright.

Sure, although the town is in a better situation because we don't have to deal with his dilemma. Again in lylo and he lives what do you do?

Fail. The town is not in a better situation. If he is a townie the town is down two townies with no reads but yeah, sure, if it ends up in lylo he won't be there to screw things up. Are you kidding me? Policy lynches are horrible ideas and horribly anti-town.

Gotta reread charlie.

Unvote

for now since tubby's improved.

[Toogeloo]

stef

nicely done i am reading you as town well thought good posts

This is quite interesting in the fact that I thought her posts have seemed over the top townish, almost forced, and I recall someone else mentioning the same after me. I even FoSed her for it. I'd likely consider it that if she is scum, you may be as well. What's disconcerting is that she votes you and you praise her "nicely done, townie."
PREVIEW EDIT: It seems just before I submitted this, Stef swings in and unvotes tubby for "improving."


I did a little isolation on her as well since she raised an eyebrow from me...

Due to the prod I find myself in need to be active in both my games although I asked for V/LA in the GD topic.

Actually she never stated V/LA in her previous posts, not really important, just saying... LAL (Where's Benmage?)?

I started making a long wall-o-text and decided to delete it as it would just end up as parroting. I will just limit myself to making a summary.

mothrax = opportunistic, only merit in his case against digi is calling out on digi not voting for his main suspect.
CCARaven4 = voted because someone told him to, using huge crap-logic in his voting pattern.
diginova = OMGUSy, overall looks like bad town.

Toon Fighter: how populist of you to have as your 3 main suspects the 3 biggest suspects of the game.

I think Raven needs votes.

unvote, Vote Raven

I bolded the part with Toon Fighter calling him populist because she was called for doing the exact same thing in this very post. It is quite hypocritical. This is her first real content post, but as you may notice, she didn't want to parrot and she did anyways. The whole post is kind of hypocritical, and may have just come off as a way to express content without actually hunting for it.


Not going to bother with posting her ISO8, it's lengthy, and it's the last this she posted, but just summing up, I reiterate that the whole post felt forced, especially the key parts of "No policy lynches <insert Stef finger wag>" and "no one should claim until asked."

Her activity hasn't been stellar, and I got nothing to meta her against since I've never played with her. But the parts I am looking at just don't see heartfelt in content, and appear mostly just for activity sake.

Unvote
Vote: Stef

FoS tubby

PREVIEW EDIT: From the new post.

I'd rather be redundant than regret it later. Enough newbies in this game warrants a little extra care.

Admits that she isn't really hunting and just posting redundant commentary. Most the rest of the post is defense by appearance, with more pushing on Benmage for his desire to save town from Lowell by PLing.

To her credit, when she stated concern of Benmage and the Policy Lynch thing, I mistook it as Wraith's question recalling the wrong person.

Sup all, back from vacation. Shouldn't have anymore interruptions until late August when I do some moving. Anyways, I see that there are two bandwagons going up, and that diginova is at L-2. There has also been some limited discussion on policy lynches. Since there wasn't an RQS, I'm gonna ask a question for every now: My only policy lynch is Lynch All Liars. Liars, if they aren't scum, are extremely dangerous. I developed this attitude toward liars during my first newbie game, in which a VT fake-claimed Cop in a botched attempt to draw a night kill. As a result, he had to lie and double-lie about his "result" and ended up drawing a lot of heat that could have been used to find the real scum (AGar was present at this game, and I was scum in that game, funnily enough). Who agrees and who disagrees with this polcy lynch and why?

Still, she has been over the top on the Policy Lynch thing, probably more so than necessary. Most people responded to Benmage stating the cons of PLing a player, Stef took to a slightly elevated level of chastising such activity, and railing Benmage for it.

Still think something is fishy with Stef and tubby though >_>

[Toogeloo]

Actually she never stated V/LA in her previous posts, not really important, just saying... LAL (Where's Benmage?)?

I guess EBWOP should state is as Where's Wraith lol. I hope it doesn't become an issue of me mistaking BM and Wraith all game. Speaking of which, BM... again... get an Avatar please >_>

[Toogeloo]

bad format is bad, but you all get the idea =p

[Stef]

Meh, fist off, I am a him, not a her.

It seems just before I submitted this, Stef swings in and unvotes tubby for "improving."

I voted for him because he wasn't providing content. He started providing content therefore my reason for voting him became null. I am, for now, satisfied with his posting. This was all obvious, why do you need it spelled out to you?

Actually she never stated V/LA in her previous posts, not really important, just saying... LAL (Where's Benmage?)?

It's not LAL, it's LTR. Learn to read because I said I posted in the

GD

topic.

Admits that she isn't really hunting and just posting redundant commentary

Brutal misrep. I was referring strictly to the "do not claim until/do not hammer until" part and there is no way you could have mistaken that. You strike me as extremely sloppy with the above posts.

Also, your defense of BM is noted.

[Wraith]

I've been addicted to a new game last few days and had a big meeting today. I'll try to get my activity up by weekend.

[Charlie]

Charlie, why more votes on Wraith?

Because I suspect him and am pushing for a lynch?

The first 2 Days ended in No-lynch. That was madness. Madness, I tell you.

------------

In other news... Charlie lynching would be mighty fine today.

I actually agree due to the fact any lynch is better than a no-lynch.

I really didn't like any of Charlie's posts thus far. He has had almost nothing to say on the case against him, which has been based mainly on the fact that he has nothing to say! If he had more content or came up with a good read that we hadn't seen before, then we might have a reason to take votes off him, but as of now, there's nothing that's showing me that's he's not anti-town.

That's a very weak point. You vote people who you think are mafia, not just anti-town

1) Do I really have to defend myself at every point thrown at me?
2) To what degree is my anti-towness so bad that it warrants a vote/lynch?

I read that post as non-commitment. You don't have a suspect, you say I'm anti-town but didn't commit to say I'm mafia. Get a stance already.

Gotta reread charlie.

Aside from the last Wall O' Text, there isn't much to reread. As Anon complied his case against me, most of my posts before the Wall were fluffy.

[Porochaz]

Mothrax - 4 - Mr.Sandman, Fugitive, Toon Fighter, Lowell
Charlie - 2 - Agar, CCARaven
tubby - 1 - Zorblag
Lowell - 1 - mothrax
Wraith - 1 - Charlie
Benmage - 1 - Anon
Stef - 1 - Toogeloo

Not Voting - 5 - Diginova, Wraith, tubby, benmage, stef

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline August 7th

[Porochaz]

Checking the dates, Fugitive will be prodded.

[Lowell]

I'm impressed with how we managed to make a four-person bandwagon in eleven pages. Folks need to start pushing mothrax or give a viable alternative. Everyone waiting on the sidelines is suspicious.

[mothrax]

Lowell, if you had read, it was a six person at one point, and I defended myself then. If you want me to repeqrmyself sure keep pushing, if not, re-read and go do some actual scumhunting.

[Toogeloo]

Actually she never stated V/LA in her previous posts, not really important, just saying... LAL (Where's Benmage?)?

It's not LAL, it's LTR. Learn to read because I said I posted in the

GD

topic.

GD = God Damn, at least that's how I read it. If you meant something else, it wasn't clear.

[Porochaz]

I will be away between the 5th and the 10th, backup mod Oman will be looking after the thread during this time. Will be posting this again later.

[tubby216]

no here on MS GD= general disscussion thread,,, sheesh what happened to that commonly used abreiviations page?

[Toogeloo]

That whole point is irrelevant to the case against I put against him anyways, so without straying off topic about the whole thing, I am keeping my vote on him for now.

[Toogeloo]

Admits that she isn't really hunting and just posting redundant commentary

Brutal misrep. I was referring strictly to the "do not claim until/do not hammer until" part and there is no way you could have mistaken that. You strike me as extremely sloppy with the above posts.

Actually, you said you were being redundant to this quote:

^This comes off a little forced as a pro-town stance. Not really feeling you at the moment Stef. Your observations thus far don't come off as scum hunting but just posts for appearance. FoS Stef

I'd rather be redundant than regret it later. Enough newbies in this game warrants a little extra care.

So I have no idea why you would think I could mistake that as "do not claim until/do not hammer until."

[Mr.Sandman]

@Sandman:

Why does that make you think mothrax is town? Do you not think Raven's scummy any more?

I said townie brownie, not Mothrax = town. Second, I gave him a townie brownie because he didn't back off when pressured for his vote.

About the last question in the above quote, reread the ending of my post and you will find your answer. Pay attention.

It would take fairly newbish scum to back off when pressured for voting, would it not?

Anyway,

unvote, vote Anon

I still think mothrax is scummy, however, I think Anon deserves some pressure. Explain after the claim, your sudden switch onto the other bandwagon and the vote for mothrax. Why have you just forgotten about Charlie, when your appeals to people to vote for him dropped?

There are also far too many 'can we just lynch such and such' posts without any real content. And by far too many, an ISO shows that most of them are like that. I don't see how anyone townie could hope to gain anything from posts like that other than to remain active, without arousing suspicion by falsifying accusations against people.

[AGar]

Charlie, I'm not stupid. I get that you're pushing for a lynch. I'm asking why. Why do you find him scummy?

Mr Sandman - Pressure votes fail to be pressure votes when you announce that pressure votes are pressure votes.

[Charlie]

Primary reason is because this game's pace feels very much like the one I mentioned. I don't want a no-lynch. I don't want 2 no-lynches in a row. With AGar here pushing things aggressively, I see less chance of this happening. Therefore, despite his unfounded suspicion on me, he's useful to have around a bit.

Case: He has an aura of lurkishness, coupled with his inconsistent posting: Throws a FoS at me, yet the following analysis did not include me. (How disappointing) Reads as disingenuous.

Would you like a more comprehensive case, your honour?

[Wraith]

Next four. I think I have my vote for the day. Bold is scummy actions, italics is townie actions. Scale is neutral, slightly leaning, leaning, certain, confirmed

Charlie

0: randomvote
1: offtopic
2: page 3 is null-tell page
3: talks about his mafia sense
4: jokepost
5: believes mothrax is deflecting to diginova
6: page 3 is null-tell
7: claims Lowell’s vote against him is unreasonable
8: rebukes Anon’s claims of his scumminess
9: sarcasm to Anon’s joke
10: suspicion of Anon

11: claims lurking for new content, claims diginova not a suspect

12: claims will get activity up
13: explains lurking playstyle for game

14: analysis of game so far, rightfully points out Raven’s case in #100 is weak, believes dignova’s JK claim

, votes Wraith, FoS mothrax/Raven/Zorblag
15: asks for AGar’s suspicions
16: answers Toon Fighter on reading his game
17: calls for more votes on Wraith
18: attacks Raven, claims any lynch (including himself) is better than no lynch
19: specifies case against Wraith

Charlie has a history of lurking and fencesitting. Even his Post 14 WoT is non-commital, but I see that he specifically attacks myself and Raven. But since he seems to be actively scumhunting, I’m balancing out my read on him.

Conclusion: Neutral

diginova

0: policy lynch
1: justifies policy lynch
2: unvotes
3: attempts to justify policy lynch as a random vote when it is not,

attempts to dissuade AGar from scumhunting and ending RVS

4: explains policy lynch
5: calls out Raven on joining his BW, FoS Raven
6: explains lurking
7: explains playstyle
8: claims town jailkeeper
9: explains claim
10: talks about policy lynch of Lowell’s wagoneering

Diginova’s entire scumminess in the early game rested on the fact that he tried to push a policy lynch. Keep in mind that this policy lynch was rendered null considering that the player he was pushing for it got replaced. However, I must point out that he claimed almost 5 days ago, and that got people to cool off his wagon.

He has made two posts since then.

There is definitely a possibility he is scum doing major lurking to prevent suspicion coming back on him.

Conclusion: Slightly Leaning Scum

Fugitive

0: hello
1: randomvote
2: OMGUS
3: likes his vote on AGar
4: pushes AGar lynch
5: pushes AGar lynch
6: responds to mod
7: Votes mothrax,

joins mothrax wagon for no reason

8:

claims reason for joing mothrax BW is because diginova has a cooler name

9: offtopic
10: explains wagon vote
11: explains wagon vote
12: explains wagon vote
13: rightfully claims Raven is deflecting
14: attacks Stef
15: attacks Stef
16: claims OMGUS from mothrax

Fugitive switches between some people to target, usually for OMGUS or BW reasons. He attacked AGar at first because of a randomvote. He voted mothrax for absolutely no reason. He attacked Stef for…some reason.

In addition he has not made a post in almost four days. Conclusion: Leaning Scum

Lowell

0: randomvote
1: votes mothrax for overreaction
2: answers prod

3: votes Charlie for overreaction (where?)
4: prod avoidance, states will join any BW
5: votes mothrax, joins mothrax BW for no reason
6: explains BW vote as mothrax BW has more people
7: pushes mothrax BW with no reasoning other than it is a BW

Lowell has tunneled mothrax the whole game except for a short period voting for Charlie. He has openly stated that he will join whatever bandwagon “looks fun” for no reason. He has posted very little, lurked all game, given almost no justifiable reasoning for any of his votes, but continues to push for mothrax’s lynch with absolutely no evidence or reasoning on his part.

Conclusion: Scum

I have a theory: Lowell and Fugitive are both scum. Evidence:

-They both voted for the mothrax wagon
-They both joined a wagon for no reason
-They have both posted either barely at all or with little useful content
-THEY ARE BOTH TUNNELING MOTHRAX WITH NO CASE

<--this is a biggie

-They have made no attempts to scumhunt and vote on craplogic

[Wraith]

Forgot about this:

VOTE: Lowell

[Wraith]

Also, a triple post. MOD: Just glimped Mighty Orbots post list and he has not posted since the 17th. Prod or replace, please?

[Porochaz]

Mighty Orbots is a Zorblag alt.

[Lowell]

@wraith- It's day 1 and our leading vote-getter has four votes. No kidding, I pretty much will join any wagon. Not sure what you want me to defend in that.

[Fugitive]

Mod: request replacement

Sorry, but I don't have time for this game. That became very apparent in the last few days.