Mini 1034 - Castlevania Mafia (Game Over)

[UncertainKitten]

Not worth my time. Anyone reading my post then your post will basically get how useless your post was. As well as inaccurate.

[McGriddle]

Why don't you explain why it is inacurate? Oh, because none of it IS inaccurate...

[UncertainKitten]

It's obviousness itself. Just because you're too stupid to get it doesn't mean other people won't. Meh, I might consider debunking it later when I'm not seething at the incredible doltitude you exhibit.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

LynchMePls (0)

-

SpyreX (0)

-

jenniwren (0)

-

UncertainKitten (1)

- McGriddle

MehPlusRawr (5)

- UncertainKitten, LynchMePls, Coach Travis, tanstalas, zwetschenwasser

Katsuki (0)

-

Dekes (0)

-

Coach Travis (5)

- jenniwren, SpyreX, VasudeVa, MehPlusRawr, Katsuki

zwetschenwasser (0)

-

McGriddle (0)

-

VasudeVa (0)

-

tanstalas (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (1)

- Dekes

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is September 16, ~ 9 am PDT.

[UncertainKitten]

/me sighs

You know what? I'm not being very pro town right now. I have no good reason for withholding why you're pretty fucking wrong except for the fact that your conclusions are so utterly stupid, it feels like a waste of time to refute them.

If you read what I said, I said you weren't a BAD lynch. First of all, nowhere does your vote for me come into this. You've been fucking USELESS to the town and have pretty even odds of being scum since, quite simply, scum don't want to give away information.

Secondly, I said that if we did lynch you, it'd more likely be a policy lynch. I preceded this with a but, implying that I DO NOT support said course of action.

Thirdly, I never voted you, therefore I haven't been "offering a policy lynch" on you. If I wanted you lynched right now, I'd fucking vote you.

So, tl;dr

learn to fucking read

[Coach Travis]

Alright, time for my big defense post, followed by my current list of reads.

Overall, CT is being exceedingly cautious in his play and indicates he’s looking for a good wagon to settle on. His later postings definitely demonstrate that he’s preparing to jump from Zwet’s wagon to MPR’s and is just looking for the right opportunity to make the switch as others migrate in that direction. He’s tunneled on Zwet so hard for so long that he can’t just up and unvote, so he’s dropping hints about his suspicions of MPR so that no one accuses him of vote-hopping. In each post he is careful not to nail himself down to anything, even his vote on Zwet, whom he has maintained is guilty almost from the beginning, allowing himself room to maneuver without drawing undue attention to that maneuvering.

I wouldn't say I've been cautious, more inactive, and I have reasons for that. As far as being cautious goes, I've said everything I've felt while playing the game, given thoughts, I've just had difficulty due to a lack of time and also because with all the wagoning going on it's tough to read some players here. I still feel I've contributed more than some.

As for my own "wagoning":I've never made a vote just to follow a wagon. The zwet vote was the second on him, and I gave reasoning for it, didn't like how that fake claim felt, and after that my suspicions were confirmed with his strange posting style and all kinds of other craziness.

My vote on MPR also wasn't to follow a wagon, it was because I find him and zwet both suspicious, and since it currently seems unlikely zwet will be lynched, I decided to switch to someone who has a better chance of being lynched, because I want to catch scum today, and I feel MPR very well could be scum.

Also, I'm the type of player who often will mention a couple suspicions players at a time. I like looking at the bigger picture, trying to find anyone who I think might be scum, and not just narrow it down to who I want lynched today, so that would explain why I was always mentioning suspicions in twos(it was originally zwet and tans).

A)

The way he responds to Zwet’s first vote on him is, in tone,a lot more serious than required.

Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning, and

either way it's at least as likely for town to bandwagon as it is for scum

. The fact you're already so worried about getting lynched you're resorting to an OMGUS vote makes you look worse than you did before.

Bolded area is a superfluous qualification of the first clause. Read his posts and look for this type of language; you'll find it in abundance.

I seriously don't get what's wrong with that post. From experience I know town are as likely to bandwagon as scum, I've seen it happen so many times where a bandwagon is almost all townies. Nothing I said there was false, or unnecessary.

His analysis of Zwet in Post #148 is also full of qualifying information; he retracts his accusations about the BW being scummy, because of what other people say about it and about his reaction.

Though reading more posts about it I can see how I overreacted a bit, and it's not a scum tell, so I won't just judge him on that.

C)

Also in Post #148, he suggests Tans and Zwet are scumbuddies who are distancing. He then says

Right now I think I'll leave vote on zwet, because I find them equally scummy, so there's no need to change it.

(Coming back to this in point E.)

Once again, nothing there that doesn't make sense. I already explained the thing with zwet's fake claim, and never seeing anything like that before on day 1. Of course I was going to feel strange about it at first, but once people explained how it's just a normal thing he liked to do, I realized I was wrong. And in this case, it was fine to leave my vote on zwet because both of them were still getting some suspicion, so even if tans was getting a bit more attention, it made sense to me to just keep the vote where it was.

D)

Another gem in this post (148):

@everyone, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts?

Townie, because mafia need to pay attention to everything they say, to make sure they don't do something stupid to get caught, so they're focus is a bit more defensive, where townies are more focused catching scum, so they tend not to worry as much about defense.

At first I thought this post was about

reading

; then I realized it’s about WRITING. The most interesting thing about this, though, is that it’s a response to Tanstalus’s quote about READING (Post #141), as indicated by the rest of the quote:

If you are town you are scouring everyones posts for the smallest tell.

I think it’s interesting that CT is thinking of being careful not in reading, but in writing, to the point that he misreads the question and responds based on the misread. This misunderstanding of Tans' question is an unusual slip and reveals what CT is being careful about in the game.

This isn't a "slip". I rushed through my reading, only saw the part about paying attention to detail in posts, and responded to that. I never even saw the other part, so going by that, I think it makes sense to interpret it either way. Regardless, my answer would actually still be the same, if not more even stronger in favor of scum, so it's no big deal. This works in my favor in one way, because I demonstrated I wasn't as concerned over details in making that oversight, and I know scum have to pay attention to everything written, look for ways to twist words around, make people look worse than they are, and see who they could possibly manipulate into voting certain people in the future.

E)

In post #219, CT decides to defend Tans for "flailing." Now that others have used this word and this analogy, he backs off his claim in Post #148 which basically found Tans very scummy for flailing.

I never found him suspicious for flailing, I thought he was being overly defensive, whining about zwet voting him, and giving him and HoS at first instead of vote. Basically, he was simply defending, not attacking. Once he started mixing in some actual attempts scumhunting into his posts, that's when I started to realize his flailing might not actually be scummy, but just bad play by a townie.

F)

In Post # 266, he has this to say.

Basically, there's a chance [Tans] is fact just a sloppy scum, but right now I don't feel that way and think zwet would be the much better lynch, because he seems more in control of himself, and looks like he's deliberately playing scummy, which I don't like.

I also agree about lurking being a big problem, and if I wasn't so convinced zwet was scum, I'd consider voting MPR as well, just because he needs to contribute something soon. In other news, I'm liking Dekes so far, so there's someone else I could add to my list of town reads. Right now my only strong scum read is zwet, but I'm not liking the inaction from MPR, and anyone I haven't mentioned could potentially be scum, but I still haven't had enough time to look into them.

It looks like he is still going to push the Zwet vote, but is leaving room to—or perhaps preparing to—jump wagons if he needs to do so. Phrasings like “there’s a chance” and “If I wasn’t so convinced…I’d consider voting…” and “anyone I haven’t mentioned” are also suspect. He’s again indicating that we shouldn’t be surprised to see him jump wagons if someone else gets a good wagon going on another player.

That was a pretty bad post on my part, I'll admit that. But again, I like giving my suspicions in twos, to consider who else I'd want to lynch if it starts to look like my top suspect won't be lynched, because in the my goal is to catch scum, so if my first option isn't going to work, instead of sticking to them and letting someone I find less suspicious get lynched, I prefer to have a second option. Which is why I'll sometimes say when there's more than one person I'm willing to vote for. The end of that was honest;At that point, I really had no clue about a lot of the players, so as far as I knew, anybody could end up doing something scummy. Basically, I just don't like to rule out the possibility of someone I'm unsure of being scum.

G)

And yeah, I get that zwet may be similar in his other games, but just in general the way he comes off I'm not liking at all, and with that type of player I'd always prefer to have them lynched because even if he's town I'm not finding him terribly helpful, and so far he's done nothing to make me think he's town. I've never got the point of playing mafia if you're going to be that deliberately unhelpful. MPR's fishing is getting ridiculous though, so I'm also suspicious of him.

This still looks like he’s balancing between two people who are receiving negative attention right now, which again indicates he’s looking for the best wagon.

I wouldn't describe it that way. As I said, I'm looking for the option where I'm most likely to get one of my main suspects lynched, because they're both players I see as scum. Also, I've gotten a bit used to zwet over time, even though I still don't like him, and I have been getting increasingly more suspicious of MPR. Even his reaction to his BW is similar to something I've said before.

Anyways, here's some more reads to go with what I've provided so far:
jenniwren:I think she's town. Nothing in her case against me is scummy, and she's making an effort to scum hunt, which is a good thing. She even makes some good points against me.

McGriddle:Really haven't seen much of him. Not one of my top two suspects now, but he's closer to scum than town, right now. As Uk has said, he's been pretty useless. Almost a null tell so far, though based on some of his reactions, I'm leaning more towards scum.

SpyreX:Another player who could go either way, mostly because he seems to be tunneling me, about one thing in particular, and he hasn't provided much content aside from that. Just going by gut though, I think he's townie and is convinced I'm scum, that's the read I get from a couple of his reactions so far.

Katsuki:Getting a town read there as well, some good posts throughout, and even the vote on me is understandable considering the situation.

I believe that's everyone now.

[LimMePls]

tans has done nothing but strengthen my SK read. I think waiting to see if we can confirm the role claim is the best way to go from here.

@CT: So your reads at the bottom of 505 are:

jenni: town
McG: null
SpyreX: fence-sit
Katsuki: town

Who are the scum?

MPR lynch > CT lynch.

[Coach Travis]

No, the reads were, in order:town, scummish, townish, town. Basically, the two in the middle aren't as strong, but I'm still leaning one way, I'm not just saying null. Out of everything I've posted, you can see right now my three picks for most likely scum are MPR, zwet, and Mcgriddle.

[LimMePls]

No, the reads were, in order:town, scummish, townish, town. Basically, the two in the middle aren't as strong, but I'm still leaning one way, I'm not just saying null. Out of everything I've posted, you can see right now my three picks for most likely scum are MPR, zwet, and Mcgriddle.

Potato, potato (and I just realized this doesn't work in forum posts). We basically said the same thing, but you just reworded it. The fact is you listed two town reads and two that you were as wishy-washy as I have ever seen before. Here is your exact wording on McG:

McGriddle:

Really haven't seen much of him.

Not one of my top two suspects now, but he's closer to scum than town, right now. As Uk has said, he's been pretty useless.

Almost a null tell so far

, though based on some of his reactions, I'm leaning more towards scum.

Notice the bold. That isn't exactly the boldest statement I've ever seen.

You don't think tans has been scummy? Explain.

[Coach Travis]

I think tans could potentially be scummy, obviously, but most of his actions so far have read more newb to me than scum, and it's gotten increasingly more newb and less scum as he's gone on. Though I'll admit, I previously never mentioned the possibility of him being an SK, (which I guess is because I've never been in a game with one before, so I just forgot they exist), but so far his flailing looks more town to me, he's been too hyper and too frustrated, plus actually trying to catch people he thinks are scum, and he's generally been open as far as his sharing his thoughts. Basically, right now I think he's most likely a sloppy town player, SK is second most likely, and scum, the least likely. Sense catching scum is better than catching an SK, you can see why I'd prefer to leave him alone now.

[UncertainKitten]

Theory disagreement. There ARE advantages to getting and SK out of the way, namely reducing the amount of anti town kills. That said, I'd like a night to pass before I jump on tans for being SK.

[LimMePls]

I think tans

could potentially be

scummy

CT, this is yet ANOTHER instance of wishy-washy non-committal statements from you, and you know how it turned out last time I caught you doing that. "could potentially be scummy"!?!? Yeah, anyone could potentially be scummy, the question is DO YOU THINK THEY ARE OR NOT.

Unvote
Vote: Coach Travis

That is L-1.

[Katsuki]

CT defense was satisfactory.

Unvote, Vote MPR

[McGriddle]

I'd fucking vote you.

Usage of curse words

DOS

(Dik Of Suspicion)

[tanstalas]

MPR lynch > CT lynch.

We finally agree on something

[Katsuki]

@McG: Who would you rather lynch, CT or MPR, and why?

[Katsuki]

ALSO UK IS NOT A CHOICE IN THE ABOVE QUESTION. KEEP IT TO THOSE TWO PLEASE.

[LimMePls]

MPR lynch > CT lynch.

We finally agree on something

LOL. Not anymore. Did you read CT's latest posts? That guy sits a fence harder than anyone I've ever seen. Last time I caught him doing that behavior he flipped scum.

[MehPlusRawr]

...I'm waiting for my wagon to disperse. Hurry up.

I'm not even defending myself as nobody has a decent reason to vote me.

[tanstalas]

...I'm waiting for my wagon to disperse. Hurry up.

I'm not even defending myself as nobody has a decent reason to vote me.

Then make a better case on someone else. As you have a lot of people on your wagon and in their eyes they have enough reason.

[Katsuki]

I am currently voting MPR because he refuses to defend himself.

Better come up with something MPR The "oh ill just sit here and give up you guys do whatever you want" attitude doesn't work.

[VasudeVa]

Actually, I don't even understand the wagon on MPR.

Looking at the vote posts:
UK: Lurker vote
Coach: "MPR's not contributing" + "OMG I'M at L-1" vote
Tantstalas: Prefers MPR over CT vote
Zwet:......I don't even know.
Katsuki: Prefers MPR over CT vote

Let's see if we can get something out from here.
@UK: Are you still fine with your vote?
@Coach: MPR almost never contributes, I can say this as a player who has seen him play. What do you think of him now? Are you still fine with your vote?
@tans: Why?
@Zwet: Hi!
@Katsuki: Eh, MPR does defend himself but he's bad at it. His defense so far is 'This wagon on me is the most terrible wagon of all time!'. Myep. Also, why do you find CT's defense satisfactory?

[Katsuki]

CT defense is satisfactory because I see nothing that screams scum. AKA, I do not see him as todays lynch at least. Tomorrow will give me a better impression of CT.

[tanstalas]

@tans: Why?

I've answered the "Why?" already, my question to you is why are you so lazy to not look at my reasons why?

[jenniwren]

A)

The way he responds to Zwet’s first vote on him is, in tone,a lot more serious than required.

Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning, and

either way it's at least as likely for town to bandwagon as it is for scum

. The fact you're already so worried about getting lynched you're resorting to an OMGUS vote makes you look worse than you did before.

Bolded area is a superfluous qualification of the first clause. Read his posts and look for this type of language; you'll find it in abundance.

I seriously don't get what's wrong with that post. From experience I know town are as likely to bandwagon as scum, I've seen it happen so many times where a bandwagon is almost all townies. Nothing I said there was false, or unnecessary.

It isn't that it's false, just that it's a very self-protective comment. No one would have questioned you saying "Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning," so it feels like the extra comment about it being just as viable a town tell as a scum tell feels like you are trying to cover all the bases in case you get called on it.

The same goes for these:

His analysis of Zwet in Post #148 is also full of qualifying information; he retracts his accusations about the BW being scummy, because of what other people say about it and about his reaction.

Though reading more posts about it I can see how I overreacted a bit, and it's not a scum tell, so I won't just judge him on that.

C)

Also in Post #148, he suggests Tans and Zwet are scumbuddies who are distancing. He then says

Right now I think I'll leave vote on zwet, because I find them equally scummy, so there's no need to change it.

(Coming back to this in point E.)

Once again, nothing there that doesn't make sense. I already explained the thing with zwet's fake claim, and never seeing anything like that before on day 1. Of course I was going to feel strange about it at first, but once people explained how it's just a normal thing he liked to do, I realized I was wrong. And in this case, it was fine to leave my vote on zwet because both of them were still getting some suspicion, so even if tans was getting a bit more attention, it made sense to me to just keep the vote where it was.

Again, it's not that what you're saying is wrong or doesn't make sense, but that it is worded so as to give you as much leeway as possible.

In fact, what stands out to me is the political eloquence of your language; it's making a stand without committing, which allows one to make comments that one does not have to be held to later.