NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Wickedestjr]

Robbnva, have you ever played as scum before? If so, can you link me to a game where you were scum?

[Robbnva]

Robbn is a poor player regardless of alignment, and that pings scumdars.

As much as I hate that you said this, sadly this is true about me

and @xite, you were right my post really wasn't about defending myself per-se cause you haven't provided anything of value against me.

I think it is funny that I use my own experiences in games and turn them into reasons why I think that person is scummy, yet that looks scummy. That doesn't make sense.

my reason for voting mysterio is a valid one. when mafia is pretending to be town, IN MY EXPERIENCES, they have used words like "seems" or "hope" and things like that. Never posting any actualy reasons as to why somebody is scummy, but my votes I post reasons why I think they are scummy and that is scummy?

my style of play is I basically say what is on my mind and if I see something I think is scummy, I put it down and try and get the person to defend themselves. Townies get scared of me cause I call them out sometimes and mafia wants me dead for the same reason. This game is about getting people to talk and if you see somebody posting something you see scummy, the point is to get them to explain their reasoning.

if that is scummy play, than I will never change and I will be scummy forever, but how else are you supposed to scumhunt if you don't call people out on their scummy behaviors

[Robbnva]

Robbnva, have you ever played as scum before? If so, can you link me to a game where you were scum?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=14759

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=15042

[Wickedestjr]

Robbnva:

Post 4: Robbnva states that he doesn't think Furcolow is mafia, because he'd expect him to lay low as mafia.
Post 5: Robbnva suddenly changes his mind about Furcolow and says he isn't looking too good.
Post 9: Robbnva votes for Furcolow for thinking about lynching dana, the claimed cop. The flip flop seems a bit wierd. He voted Furcolow for single handedly trying to get the claimed cop lynch, yet previously stated that he would expect Furcolow as mafia to lay low.
Post 10: Robbnva expresses a strong certainty that Furcolow is scum. He says that the way Xite breaks down scum tells is amazing. Firstly he is buddying to Xite in this post. Secondly, he is making the flip flop look worse.
Post 14: Robbnva says that Furcolow makes a good lynch because he is just a townie with no powers. There's no way he could know this if he was town.
Post 15: After Xite points out the slip in Robbnva's post 14, Robbnva says

Would I rather nail scum

, of course but at what cost? run somebody else up to be lynched and pray he is not the doctor? no thanks.

Which strongly implies that he thinks Furcolow is going to flip town despite strongly suspecting him. Specifically, the bolded implies he expected his suspect to flip town.

Post 28: Robbnva votes Orochi and says he doesn't have anything else to go on. He had previously shown suspicion of Kise and Benmage, so what happened to those suspicions? The vote for Orochi also looks kind of OMGUSy.
Post 38: Robbnva suddenly decides that he suspects Wraith now that the bandwagon has gotten strong. He jumps on. Also, he voted Wraith for his response to the pressure, yet didn't find his response to the votes day 1 to be suspicious at all. I find that hard to believe.
Post 46: Robbnva says that he thinks if Wraith is town I'm scum for defending him which seems wierd because before he switched to the Furcolow bandwagon, he was defending Furcolow, who was town. So, he would also be guilty of defending a townie who was getting a lot of attention.
Post 48: This post from Robbnva is full of IIoA. Robbnva states many facts of ConfidAnon, but doesn't give any opinions. A useless post.
Post 56: Robbnva votes Mysterio when he sees the tide shifting there from Wraith.
Post 57: AtE. "I can't seem to do anything right." What was the point of that comment other than AtE?
Post 58: Robbnva decides Xite is no longer a good scumhunter because Xite suspects Robbnva. Not liking that response at all.


Also, I'm glad that Robbnva moved his vote off of the Wraith bandwagon, but now that he knows that Wraith wasn't daykilled, why doesn't he move his vote back? Looks a lot like opportunism.

My read:

Neutral/Scum

Now to take a look at the other 5 players that I mentioned. Robbnva, can you link me to a game where you were town?

[danakillsu]

So, uh, fill me in, because I can't find this anywhere. Why is Wraith not being daykilled instead of lynched? I thought we agreed we had to lynch someone else because of the daykill.

[Robbnva]

@wicked

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14490
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=14752
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=14983

[Robbnva]

So, uh, fill me in, because I can't find this anywhere. Why is Wraith not being daykilled instead of lynched? I thought we agreed we had to lynch someone else because of the daykill.

he claims it happens towards the end of the lynch, which makes no sense cause he has now started voting for wraith again, why lynch him if he is going to die anyway.

[Benmage]

Wicked, 3rd voter isn't early?

[Benmage]

Hrmmm I also don't recall being that late on the frank wagon, but pushing it earlier...I believe I was 6th, not 10th....although my Wraith vote looks fine.'

Might want to check with others if your looking for where people ended up on wagons, flame might not of listed in order of voting.

[ConfidAnon]

Xite - RAGERAGERAGERAGERAGE

Wraith is still scum . . . all you did was make it so his bandwagon disappeared.

Vote: Wraith

(This is not the post promised last night, there will be another one today.)

[flinter]

the "I don't use my vote to investigate" was part of my answer. And yes, that means it is technically for the lynch (though there are a few others I would lynch without problems).

Why misterio and not xite, while there were more points on xite? Seen the way Xite plays, you'll always find a lot of points against him. You'll have to see how serious they were to make a choice between him and some other. I think a lynch on mysterio has a greater chance to be on scum then xite.

[Flameaxe]

Votecount 2.7

Wraith [6] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Hiphop, Benmage, Xite, ConfidAnon)

Mysterio [5] (Flinter, Singersigner, danakillsu, Rob, @.@)
Hiphop [1] (Prozac)
UltimaAvalon [1] (UltimaAvalon)
dana [1] (Reck)
Prozac [1] (Shanba)
Flinter [1] (Wickedestjr)
ConfidAnon [1] (Bunnylover)

Not Voting [4] (Kise, Orochi, Sebguer, Wraith)

With 21 alive it will take 11 for a lynch and 11 for a no lynch.

In other news, no bites for replacing Orochi and Sebguer as of right now. Gonna go bump the signup thread and my replacement thread post. Tell your friends to replace, tell your enemies too.

[Robbnva]

Post 58: Robbnva decides Xite is no longer a good scumhunter because Xite suspects Robbnva. Not liking that response at all.

you misunderstand, not cause he suspects me but because he is so sure on his reads without anything to validate them. Accusing me without any reason and daykilling wraith(although now it looks fake) wraith with again no intel if he really is scum or not.

A smart player would not be so reckless.

[Wraith]

Was the daykill fake? I'm confused.

[Wickedestjr]

he claims it happens towards the end of the lynch, which makes no sense cause he has now started voting for wraith again, why lynch him if he is going to die anyway.

I believe he later admitted that he was lying about the daykill.

Wicked, 3rd voter isn't early?

It's early, but the other two votes were very late, and I find you suspicious for being on every bandwagon.

Hrmmm I also don't recall being that late on the frank wagon, but pushing it earlier...I believe I was 6th, not 10th....although my Wraith vote looks fine.'

You're right. I think it was because Flameaxe originally missed your vote and put it at the end of the list. The 6th vote is still a bit later imo.

Might want to check with others if your looking for where people ended up on wagons, flame might not of listed in order of voting.

I think it is correct for the most part.

the "I don't use my vote to investigate" was part of my answer. And yes, that means it is technically for the lynch (though there are a few others I would lynch without problems).

I find it hard to believe that you were so certain that Mysterio was scum so early that you'd be willing to lynch him.

Also, flinter, you have still failed to respond to a majority of the case against you:

flinter, when you switched your vote from Mysterio to Singersigner day 1, was that because you found her more suspicious at that time? You voted her, but singersigner never responded, and you didn't seem to care about that either. You ended up switching your vote again. You didn't seem to care about that vote either.

And I "ignored" Mysterio's defense, because it in no way adressed his change from "lets stay calm!" to "BANDWAGON!!!". Which is why my vote has been on him the rest of day 1. A revote was far from surprising.

If you were actually interested in figuring out Mysterio's allignment, then why didn't you tell him what you wanted him to explain? If you were town, I wouldn't think you would simply ignore his defense. I would think that you as town would explain why the defense doesn't convince you.

you misunderstand, not cause he suspects me but because he is so sure on his reads without anything to validate them. Accusing me without any reason and daykilling wraith(although now it looks fake) wraith with again no intel if he really is scum or not.

A smart player would not be so reckless.

I find it hard to believe that one reasonless scumread from Xite (which isn't always a bad thing) is enough to change your opinion from "Xite's posts are amazing" to "I thought Xite was a good scumhunter, but I guess I was wrong." The comment looked like you were trying to get him to forget his read on you.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Robbnva, you have also not responded to the points I brought up against you.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, I just noticed that I actually can edit posts in this thread, but only mine. That's why I didn't notice earlier.

[Shanba]

Let's get this sorted.

Xite, were you lying about the daykill? If not, why are you still trying to lynch Wraith? If you are, why did you lie?

[Robbnva]

EBWOP: Robbnva, you have also not responded to the points I brought up against you.

oh you wanted me to respond to them?

I will get around to it, busy right now

[Gorrad]

@Wickedest, just glancing at his iso, isos 3-6 are contributions, or at the minimum attempts thereof. Also, I'd like to point out that the only reason I was second to last on Frank's wagon is because that was when I replaced in.

[Gorrad]

Also @Wickedest: You should also note that Reck voted Dana after the votecount but before the claim.

[UltimaAvalon]

ATTN: Players!

I'm done with the charade, it was actually faked.
It was a simple gambit, in order to get a few things running.

Reading Comprehension is an amazing skill

[Wickedestjr]

Hiphop:

Post 8: Says a few interesting things:

1. He has no opinion after 8 pages.
2. He says this is his second large normal.
3. He says that the only thing from day 1 that provides useful information later is the bandwagons.
4. He says lynching scum day 1 is luck so we should just lynch somebody and get it over with.

I originally thought hiphop was town, but after rethinking this, the strategy makes no sense.

1. How could he not have an opinion after 8 pages? I have played with hiphop before. He's a good player. I find it impossible for a good player to not have had any sort of read of dana or Frank when they had gotten into a huge/large argument.
2. This isn't really his 2nd large normal. It's his third. He played in this game and this game. It probably means nothing, but I just thought I'd point it out.
3. Not only is this wrong, but it doesn't make sense. It's wrong because bandwagon's are obviously not the only things that provide info later in the game. The strategy doesn't make any sense, because he was also suggesting random lynching. What info could a bandwagon provide if it was random? None. I seriously doubt that hiphop believes in this strategy and I think it's BS.
4. If we random lynch day 1, then this strategy implies that we might as well random lynch every day: Random lynching day 1 provides no information, so we'd be at square one day 2. Does this mean we random lynch again? What's the point in playing if we just random lynch every day?


Post 9: hiphop begins scumhunting despite not thinking there is any point to it.
Post 11: hiphop makes a big post which says nothing helpful. It is just mafia theory. He unvotes danakillsu in this post but doesn't put his vote anywhere else which seems odd considering he doesn't care who gets lynched, so he should've just joined the largest bandwagon.
Post 17: A big post that is just him defending himself. There's still no scumhunting going on.
Post 19: hiphop says that he doesn't think Wraith is the lynch today and has somebody else in mind. He also promises a case on the person he has in mind.
Post 20: Doesn't give a case like he promised.
Post 21: Votes for Wraith despite previously thinking he wasn't the lynch for today and still hasn't given the case he promised.

My read:

Scum

His original strategy of random lynching made no sense strategically for reasons I explain in this post, he hasn't given a single one of his reads throughout the whole game, he joined a large bandwagon on a player he had previously thought was town, and promised a case on a player but didn't give it to us. I don't see why his random lynching suggestion applies to large normals but not any other sized game. I think that lynching scum day 1 in a large game is just as likely as it is in a smaller one. In addition, in my last game with hiphop he did a lot of scumhunting throughout the game. Even day 1 (We actually lynched scum day 1 that game). He was very active and wasn't at all afraid about how he appeared in that game, but in this one he has provided nothing and seems to be trying to fly under the radar.

Next is Mysterio.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wickedest, just glancing at his iso, isos 3-6 are contributions, or at the minimum attempts thereof.

Are you talking about Robbnva?

Also, I'd like to point out that the only reason I was second to last on Frank's wagon is because that was when I replaced in.

I'll keep that in mind.

Also @Wickedest: You should also note that Reck voted Dana after the votecount but before the claim.

Thanks for telling me. I'll add him to the list of players I need to read in isolation.

[Robbnva]

Robbnva:

Post 4: Robbnva states that he doesn't think Furcolow is mafia, because he'd expect him to lay low as mafia. -

This is typically how I feel mafia plays on day 1

Post 5: Robbnva suddenly changes his mind about Furcolow and says he isn't looking too good.

I believe you mean my post 6, but I read back and found frank was posting very scummy, my 1st post was more based on how I feel mafia plays, my post 6 was more how I felt after reading

Post 9: Robbnva votes for Furcolow for thinking about lynching dana, the claimed cop. The flip flop seems a bit wierd. He voted Furcolow for single handedly trying to get the claimed cop lynch, yet previously stated that he would expect Furcolow as mafia to lay low.

Yeah I still think mafia typically should lay low day 1, but everyone plays differently, me thinking frank should be voted cause he wants to lynch the claim cop is scummy to you really?

Post 10: Robbnva expresses a strong certainty that Furcolow is scum. He says that the way Xite breaks down scum tells is amazing. Firstly he is buddying to Xite in this post. Secondly, he is making the flip flop look worse.

reading frank's posts and the way he acts, he just keeps digging himself into a hole. I canalso see where it looks like I am buddying Xite, but regardless of what everyone turns out to be in this game, that comment was generally how I felt as a person who plays mafia, the way he was pointing out scum tells seemed logical to me.

Post 14: Robbnva says that Furcolow makes a good lynch because he is just a townie with no powers. There's no way he could know this if he was town.

of course there is no way to know that but day 1 when you have somebody claiming they are vanilla, you lynch him cause it is a safe lynch to end the day. ESPECIALLY after we have already outed a power role. for an unbiased look at how I feel on the subject read this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2473531

Post 15: After Xite points out the slip in Robbnva's post 14, Robbnva says

Would I rather nail scum

, of course but at what cost? run somebody else up to be lynched and pray he is not the doctor? no thanks.

Which strongly implies that he thinks Furcolow is going to flip town despite strongly suspecting him. Specifically, the bolded implies he expected his suspect to flip town.

I am not changing my mind on lynching frank cause he has claimed nilla townie, I am posting under the assumption that his claim is true. If it is true it is the safest lynch after outing cop, if his claim is false than it is a safe lynch cause he is scum. Win/Win in my book. I am sorry that people are so damn naive that they actually think a townie wanting to lynch a townie on day 1 after outing a cop is scummy. Would you rather run somebody else to L-1 and find out they are the Doc? or something else? NO I would just say we got lucky on the 2nd one and got a nilla towie after outing the cop, end the day and let the power role people do their thing. (i will never EVER change my stance on this, you can look at all of the games I have played on this site and you will see as town or as scum, I have basically said the same thing

Post 28: Robbnva votes Orochi and says he doesn't have anything else to go on. He had previously shown suspicion of Kise and Benmage, so what happened to those suspicions? The vote for Orochi also looks kind of OMGUSy.

i agree the vote looked OMGUSy, but we had nothing to go on and I went back to my stance that mafia probably wants to lay low on day 1 to not out suspicion on themselves, he was one of those people.

Post 38: Robbnva suddenly decides that he suspects Wraith now that the bandwagon has gotten strong. He jumps on. Also, he voted Wraith for his response to the pressure, yet didn't find his response to the votes day 1 to be suspicious at all. I find that hard to believe.

When people typically overreact to being lynched using comments lilke all aboard the mislynch train, this is NEVER going to change people's mind and it seemed awfully scummy in my mind. not sure what else I can say about that, that is how I feel.

Post 46: Robbnva says that he thinks if Wraith is town I'm scum for defending him which seems wierd because before he switched to the Furcolow bandwagon, he was defending Furcolow, who was town. So, he would also be guilty of defending a townie who was getting a lot of attention.

you say wraith you feel isn't scummy yet you never post anything he says as evidence of it, however you are more than willing to find posts from others to find them scummy. IMO, if you can find posts to make someone look scummy, you shoudl be able to find posts that you see would make somebody not scummy and you never really did that. This early when a player is acting suspicious, you need more than a gut feeling to get people to go along with you and reading his posts, I did not see what you saw.

Post 48: This post from Robbnva is full of IIoA. Robbnva states many facts of ConfidAnon, but doesn't give any opinions. A useless post.

no idea what IIoA means but I am staying open minded and looking at others that are possible scum, my case on ConAd is valid in my mind. He puts dana close to a lynch and he doesn't vote for frank, just seemed weird to me and the fact that he is so intent on pusing a lynch on wraith and not willing to consider any other options.

Post 56: Robbnva votes Mysterio when he sees the tide shifting there from Wraith.

I changed my vote to mysterio off of wraith because I thought that he was going to be day killed and it wasn't worth keeping my vote on somebody who is about to be killed. (now if the daykill was fake, I missed that Xite said it was fake.

Post 57: AtE. "I can't seem to do anything right." What was the point of that comment other than AtE?

sorry i don't know what AtE means but somebody calls says they don't like my post, others have said they don't like my posts, it is sort of a lame attempt at sarcasm or something since it seems that no matter what i do, somebody thinks I am scummy

Post 58: Robbnva decides Xite is no longer a good scumhunter because Xite suspects Robbnva. Not liking that response at all.

already commented on this in my post 65

Also, I'm glad that Robbnva moved his vote off of the Wraith bandwagon, but now that he knows that Wraith wasn't daykilled, why doesn't he move his vote back? Looks a lot like opportunism.

I am still not sure if this day kill is fake, if Xite admitted it was fake than I have missed that post, if it is true and he gets killed right before a lynch occured, what is the point of lynching him if he is going to be day killed and we have to start all over on somebody else

My read:

Neutral/Scum

Now to take a look at the other 5 players that I mentioned. Robbnva, can you link me to a game where you were town?

there you go.