Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[Pomegranate]

I'm getting terrible vibes from SS. I think that CKD revealed an okay amount, and we were fine without knowing it was a 1-shot. That's not so bad though.

The way CKD summarized the QT doesn't put SS in a positive light-

SS, do you agree with the way CKD explained the conversation in your QT?

Still, we should lynch Espy now.

[Jack]

espy wagon is nothing but laziness

[DemonHybrid]

espy wagon is nothing but laziness

What the hell?

Can you explain this?

[Jack]

espy wagon is nothing but laziness

What the hell?

Can you explain this?

Sorry, don't feel like putting in the work right now.

[DemonHybrid]

espy wagon is nothing but

laziness

What the hell?

Can you explain this?

Sorry, don't feel like putting in the work right now.

[vollkan]

I can't get volkan in a scum or town category.
Ahhh.

Oh, the irony of a VI complaining that somebody else is unreadable :igmeoy:

The first paragraph, given that we are indeed a one shot CPR Doc, if one of us dies (the other can use the ability without having to come to a consensus), and the other is scum, do you think that scum will get "extra" help? Why do you think here that SS is saying they dont? (BTW: I just doubled checked the PM again, and yes, the other can make the decision alone.) Do you feel that a.) that is scummy to misrepresent that and b.) do you feel it was a good move as town to mention the one shot part? Also do you understand/agree with SS's vote on me?

SS is wrong. If there is scum in your pair, then plainly they stand to gain by having a free NK. And, for the same reason that OSVs shouldn't claim that they are OS (though, interestingly, I think that it's perfectly legit for multi-shot-vigs to lie and say they are OSVs...), it was anti-town of her to claim that you were OS.

As I said before, her vote is stupid. In my head right now, there are really two explanations: a) She is scum trying to get rid of you to get a free use of her power; or b) She is null (as in, I don't think this is alignment-dependent) who has gotten pissed at you for unilaterally deciding to claim and is basically becoming tunnel-visioned. I know I'd be furious in her position no matter what my alignment, but I also know I wouldn't think you were scummy for claiming like you did.

2nd paragraph, first of all, this is a completely untrue statement. I DID discuss it in the QT thread, my neighbor, decided to quit posting in there. I did not go behind ANYONE's back and I stated my intentions clearly. But for WIFOM sake, what possible motivation could I have as scum to coming forward? IF I was scum, wouldnt it have been easier (and a much better play) to shut my mouth today, kill off my neighbor tonight, and simply use the CPR doc on someone I knew wasnt going to be killed? I am interested in hearing theories here..

There's no scum motivation for your actions. And, in light of you being OS and suspecting your neighbour, there is an obvious, if not universally accepted, pro-town one.

Hmm, actually, now I understand why you wanted to claim...in a weird way. I don't think you went about it in the right way, since you brought too much attention to yourself in a bad way, but thinking that I was a part of the scum faction, and I could communicate to them to kill you tonight (which I didn't understand you were getting at earlier), it would make sense for you to want to draw attention to us so that if I were scum, I would automatically be the target the next day.

You didn't think of this before?

[horrordude0215]

you are, in fact, part of the scum faction. Dumb ass.

I disagree, and almost think that CKD is part of the mafia faction because he decided to make that decision on his own.

this theory only works if their “neighbor” faction doesn’t know each other’s alignment as well, along with CKD and I say this confidently knowing I’m town aligned, but also understanding that the rest of you have no way of knowing

WTF? First you go and say that you're almost positive CKD is scum, to that you almost think he's scum, to he may be scum if the neighbor faction don't know the other alignment as well? Explain. Now.

You seem to be lurking (like me...) And the it seems like the second one of the town votes espy you unvote...

Uhh... what? How am I lurking? I didn't post on sunday because I had church and I spent the day with family. However, I made 6 posts yesterday alone, so you really can't say I'm lurking, now can you? And I unvoted because espeonage had answered my questions.

Unvote, Vote: Looker

Don't like the many votes/unvotes going on with you.

What's the problem with me voting and unvoting? I vote based on my suspicions at the time, and if I see something really scummy, I'll probably switch my vote because of it.

In response to CKD's 283. I would say that it definitely favors scum if the town neighbor dies... it is an extra nk that way. And I don't know if I would have kept the one-shot part quiet... I don't see how it's useful other than for confirmation reasons with the other neighbor pair.

Singer's backtracking 287 is suspect.

Okay, caught up. SS is the scum neighbor.

So we have Esp, Looker, and SS for scum so far. One or two more and I'd say we have the entire team

[zwetschenwasser]

ITT hd makes a Freudian slip.

[Looker]

ITT hd makes a Freudian slip.

Where?

Your belief that CKD is town, is it based off information regarding Pomegranate?

I'm saying that they COULD be running a gambit and they COULD just be neighbours. But either way zwet is a better lynch infowise for the reasons I stated.

But you say it'd be stupid for him to claim if he wasn't running a gambit?

Also, I took your post to imply that you caught SnakePlissken's soft-claim.

So we have Esp, Looker, and SS for scum so far. One or two more and I'd say we have the entire team

Town, Town, 33% chance of being Town.

Regarding your inquiries:

• I minced my words: My first vote was based off of random numbers; my second was based off of random thought.
• There's no need to elaborate. I thought CKD had a post restriction. I was wrong.
• It's only scummy if you believe it. And I wasn't the only one to notice it. We should dictate his actions as a Town, and if he's still alive in the morning, we lynch him.

@ Demon, and who ever else feels so inclined to answer (the more the merrier, would like opinions and stances on this question)..also interested in seeing who blatantly ignores this post.

I already asked you the question earlier which one of you do you prefer we lynch, to which you replied with an OMGUS.

What's the rationale behind this post? I don't see the scum motivation for stifling your claim. Also, I didn't vote for no reason; one of you neighbors has to die. We can hash out the night action for the survivor once we decide.

Is singersigner the neighbor you want to lynch?

Sorry, this is my first game outside of Newbie on here. I'm still trying to get it.

Get what? How to breadcrumb properly?

Prodded. My account has been inactive up till now so that's the reason for my inactivity. Will reread and post my thoughts as soon as possible.

I'm holding you to that. UNVOTE: VOTE: Stef

[Looker]

And I know that I should be posting more but I've been kind of busy and all that stuff...

[Looker]

Also,
Zwet: RVS is over.

[vezokpiraka]

unvote P
vote singersinger

You tried to force a lynch on CKD. By using false information.

[Looker]

How can vollkan and curiouskarmadog both have "Best Mafia Performance"?

[singersigner]

I also think we should be open (mostly) with the town about our ability. Meaning, I think we should tell them we have a one shot vig ability. this way, if one of us dies, and a mysterious "vigging" occurs, they know where it came from. I dont think we should mention (AT ALL) about the doc ability.

1. He said it himself in the QT that he wanted to be open and honest about the "one shot vig ability." I'm not really sure why I'm the one getting all the blame for this...
2. He's the one who claimed the doc part, not me. Again, not seeing why I'm getting the blame for this...

Horrordude's misrep in 306 is very unsettling. If you're going to quote me, quote me correctly. The "if" that comes before everything else in the first part you quoted me saying is very important, and if you leave that out, it changes the entire meaning of what I was trying to say. Also, I'll explain whatever you need me to explain, as soon as you start reading things thoroughly, or stop misrepping me on purpose. Either/Or. I'm not picky.

@Vezo...lol, seriously? What was the false information I gave you? Really, I'd like to know. My vote on CKD was part gut, and part knowing my own alignment and seeing how his reaction would affect my read on his alignment. Right now, I'm inclined to believe he's pro-town.

@vollkan...no I did not think of that before, because I'm dumb. In fact, your theory "b" sums up a lot of it, except after CKD was able to explain it in a manner I understood (sorry, I just wasn't getting everything that led up to it), when I accepted it. Honestly, I wish an apology for being so blind-sighted (regarding him claiming by himself) would actually be accepted on this site. But alas, that is not how people work here.

[Stef]

V/LA till I get back in town (friday). Sorry.

[Nero Cain]

I don't know about you but I kinda want to know why he's switched his vote twice and why he hasn't explained anything.

I want to know his reasoning too. But that doesn't make him scum.

No you didn't. If you did you would have brought it up but you didn't which tells me you were content to let him fly under the radar. Why?

Read your own ISO. You said you'd claim. I don't like day 1 claims but fine. You said that what you have to tell us will help. Fine. I'm patiently waiting on you to explain yourself. But I'm NOT pushing for your lynch...at least not yet.

What on earth do you find scummy about his claim?[/quote]

I never called his claim scummy, mostly 'cause he hadn't claimed yet but I did want him to explain himself better. Why do you find my wanting an explanation so scummy?

From my vantage point Jack, ESP and DH all look bad. Are they all scum? I'd like to think so but I doubt we are that lucky. But for the time being they all look like decent lynch candidates.

DH has made 3 posts, and you haven't even mentioned Jack until now. So that makes one person who could not reasonably want to lynch (DH) and then you jumping behind the consensus candidate (Esp) and the apparent rival (Jack).

NC+4

[/quote]

From the time I posted to the time you posted there were 19 more posts. Maybe I play different than you but I don't auto read, my reads will change through the game based on new posts. I already mentioned ESP in my first post. Jack's 109 is especially stupid but 108 and 115 are full of fail as well. His no sell of 116 is scummy as fuck. I also find it incredibly odd you call ESP and Jack rivals when it looks a whole lot more like buddying. This sounds like scum/aggressive townie just trying to fling stuff at the wall and hopes it sticks.

That said I'm on board for lynching all three but Jack is the one I'd like to see go the most.

Now you get an additional

CD+2

. Reason being is that not only have you failed to mention Jack at all until this post, but I cannot conceive of any reason why you could reasonably want to see Jack lyched over Esp (outside a scenario in which you and Esp are scumbuddies, of course)[/quote]

How the hell is me not thinking Jack was scummy in my first post as scum tell? Why do I want Jack lynched over ESP? I find Jack scummier. Watch this, why do YOU want ESP lynched over Jack? Perhaps you and Jack are scum buddies, yes?

your massive chainsaw defense of Jack is noted.

--------------------------------------

I'm sure the post tags are broke so the mod can fix if he wants but im to sleepy right now.

[CooLDoG]

@CKD: I know you have already said it many times... I just want you to answer it once more. Why the claim so early?

@Horrid dude, for some reason I get a scum read on you from you last post. I get your lurking point (it was my entire fucking fault I didn't read the times on your post. Really sorry) but How many times have you switched your vote? And if you still thought ESP was scum why did you unvote him? He is the largest wagon.

@neo chain, why did I get scum points when I didn't make that post? Most likly a typo.

[Nero Cain]

@neo chain

Making fun of my name is a bit childish...

anyways the scum points was on a post by Volkan and I just ended up breaking the tags.

[vollkan]

unvote P
vote singersinger
You tried to force a lynch on CKD. By using false information.

What false information?

She tried to push a lynch for stupid reasons, in a manner that really does just look like a nullperson getting pissed off.

How can vollkan and curiouskarmadog both have "Best Mafia Performance"?

We won it based on our performance in a scumteam in Advertising Mafia.

@vollkan...no I did not think of that before, because I'm dumb. In fact, your theory "b" sums up a lot of it, except after CKD was able to explain it in a manner I understood (sorry, I just wasn't getting everything that led up to it), when I accepted it. Honestly, I wish an apology for being so blind-sighted (regarding him claiming by himself) would actually be accepted on this site. But alas, that is not how people work here.

This is good posting.

No you didn't. If you did you would have brought it up but you didn't which tells me you were content to let him fly under the radar. Why?

The guy made three quicks posts then went on VLA. He clearly had good reasons for not explaining himself immediately

I never called his claim scummy, mostly 'cause he hadn't claimed yet but I did want him to explain himself better. Why do you find my wanting an explanation so scummy?

You're spouting bullshit.

I never once attacked you for "wanting an explanation" and it's pure misrepresentation to claim that I did.

NC+2

Let's review the history:

You expressed suspicion of CKD:

CKD deserves an FOS until he explains himself better.

CKD then legitimately asked:

curious as to what anything I have said is scummy.

Your response:

Read your own ISO. You said you'd claim. I don't like day 1 claims but fine. You said that what you have to tell us will help. Fine. I'm patiently waiting on you to explain yourself. But I'm NOT pushing for your lynch...at least not yet.

If somebody asks you "What have I done that is scummy?" (after you'd clearly expressed the view that you considered them scummy, through your FOS) and you respond by pointing their claim and that you won't lynch them "yet", the

only reasonable inference

is that you are attacking their claim. If you had some other reason for suspecting him, you presumably would have given it in answer to the question.

Goodness knows why I was then prompted to ask:

What on earth do you find scummy about his claim?

So, two questions:
1) Without being evasive and turning my question back at me without actually answering it - what was it that CKD had done that merited your FOS?; and
2) Quote me where I attacked you for wanting an explanation? If you can't point to a quote that satisfies that question (hint: it doesn't exist!), please quote which thing I said made you reasonably beleive that I had attacked you for wanting an explanation? If you can't do that, please explain why you felt the need to respond to my attacks against you with hyperbole.

From the time I posted to the time you posted there were 19 more posts. Maybe I play different than you but I don't auto read, my reads will change through the game based on new posts. I already mentioned ESP in my first post. Jack's 109 is especially stupid but 108 and 115 are full of fail as well. His no sell of 116 is scummy as fuck. I also find it incredibly odd you call ESP and Jack rivals when it looks a whole lot more like buddying. This sounds like scum/aggressive townie just trying to fling stuff at the wall and hopes it sticks.

So, basically, it's my fault for expecting to be able to see some logical pathway in your suspicion

On Jack specifically, 109, 108 and 115 may well be stupid and full of fail, but that doesn't make them scummy. And, despite your hyperboic description of 116, you've failed entirely to explain why it is sufficiently scummy to make him a "decent lynch candidate".

And I wasn't calling Esp and Jack rivals - I was saying that they were rival wagons (as in, the two most popular lynch candidates):

you jumping behind the consensus candidate (Esp) and the apparent rival (Jack).

ie. "candidate...and the apparent rival"

How the hell is me not thinking Jack was scummy in my first post as scum tell? Why do I want Jack lynched over ESP? I find Jack scummier. Watch this, why do YOU want ESP lynched over Jack? Perhaps you and Jack are scum buddies, yes?

Again, you are distorting what I am saying in the worst possible way.

I didn't attack you for not mentinoing him in your first two posts. The point is that you go from a post that says:

CKD deserves an FOS until he explains himself berrter.

ESP ISO 3 is bad.
ESP ISO 9 is WIFOM

vote: DemonHybird

All the guy does is vote and then goes V/LA.

to one in which Jack is scummy (with no explanation as to why), which is made worse, as I indicated, becasue suspecting him is utterly unreasonable

your massive chainsaw defense of Jack is noted.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHAINSAW DEFENCE!

Seriously, this has to be one of the dumbest ideas that has ever risen to prominence on this site. If I had kitten smiting powers, I would smite ten kittens every time anybody used the phrase "chainsaw defence".

If one player (A) attacks another player (B) for a bad reason, it is entirely legitimate, in fact it is proper play, for a third player (C( to then attack A for A's bad reasons.

To put things more directly: Vollkan is a townie who thinks the case on Jack is bullshit. Should Vollkan a) be quiet and not make what he considers to be good arguments against what he thinks to be the scum arguments driving the Jack case; or b) make what he considers to be good arguments against what he thinks to be the scum arguments driving the Jack case?

[Nero Cain]

your massive chainsaw defense of Jack is noted.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHAINSAW DEFENCE!

Ok. So what do I call it when you defend Jack by atacking me?

[vollkan]

your massive chainsaw defense of Jack is noted.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHAINSAW DEFENCE!

Ok. So what do I call it when you defend Jack by atacking me?

Scumhunting.

[Espeonage]

lol. Actual post will be coming tomorrow. I'm both busy and tired.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm going to catch up late tonight. One game COMPLETELY sapped my energy and fried my brain last night and today is busy as hell. Sorry.

[zwetschenwasser]

In other news, Looker active lurks.

[SnakePlissken]

Been away on a business trip, I've only just got back, if I have anything to add iwill add later on tomorrow. From a quick spin through the last few pages, looks like I will. Can someone please explain this +1/2/3 etc. Thing?