Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Charlie]

My point is that is was obvious. This a thing that need not be said and can be (should be) picked up by everyone. So, if I mention in it will come to no surprise, but I can't say I'll sheep his votes without saying it first as it would make little sense!

[Ythan]

Tybalt, I remember you being very chatty and "useful" in my limited experience with you. You are not the same here.

You really have some kind of deep seated problem with keeping up don't you.

[Charlie]

No, I'm up to date. You're ho ho hum like and I understand this. We do what we must because we can.

[Ythan]

Look at you still talking when there's reading to do.

[Charlie]

Serious: You're right, I really should do a proper read up. The problem is, mafia games are at times urgent, but not important.
Not so serious: I wans't really expecting that answer, but well done! (I guess?)

[Kmd4390]

Charlie, what is your opinion of Locke?

[Rhinox]

Sorry guys, I seem to have lost my grasp on this game. I'm reading the posts, but none of it is making any sense. I need to go back and reread from the start of today to see if its just my failure to comprehend anything or what. Maybe if I read back earlier than today, I'll find something else to go on.

In the mean time, is there any particular reason why animorph is not a topic of discussion today?

Also, he hasn't posted in 6 days. Prod?

Batt, wth, you spam us a huge chart of votes and then do absolutely no analysis based on it? whats the point?

I don't recall seeing any good reasons why SSBF is not scum, but I've lost track of the reasons why I feel that way. I'll go through his iso in a little bit and see if I can find them.

What happened to Amished? I recall having a town read on him, but now

he hasn't posted for 6 days. Prod?

nacho, holy, on V/LA. I still can't recall anything nacho has done besides try to get EGL lynched. Holy, when you get back...

If Richard flips town then I will use that information to go back and look at those on his wagon

...why didn't you do this? You only questioned charlie today, before disappearing, and he wasn't even on the Richard wagon yesterday.

Based on feel, here's everyone:
Ythan - town
Batt - town
xite - town
kmd - town
charlie - idk
locke - idk
Jahudo - town
esurio - town
plum - idk
Amished - town/idk
nacho - idk/scum
SSBF - scum
chrono - idk/scum
holy - idk/scum
ani - scum

ani or SSBF are the only ones I'm reading strongly as scum at the moment, but I also wouldn't be averse to a lynch of anyone rated "idk" or below. I won't be voting for anyone rated as town.

But like I said, later on I'll read some stuff and see if I can come up with anything that makes any damn sense.

[Kmd4390]

Quick list:

The obvtown

Charlie - Everything he has done is so town it's scary. I probably won't vote him at all in this game
Plum - Raider's wagon earlier made him town or something. Can't remember specifics but I remember deciding that him and CSL were town.
holycon - Pinged a town tell early. I don't remember what, but I remember it was strong.

The ones I can't make up my mind on

nachomamma8 - He seemed scummy Day 1, but it's hard to form a real opinion on him.
Jahudo - Hard to tell. I know him to be a good player, but he isn't really notable here.
Battousai - Replaced Pittbunny who I was sure was scum. Started out scummy. Then went and pinged one of my solid town tells. WTF BATT.
esuriospiritus - I lean town, but don't like the play. Seems genuine, but not great. Whatever, keep doing what you're doing I guess.
chronopie- See above.

The ones who I don't feel comfortable calling town

Amished - I remember even the quickest glance at vote counts had me screaming scum.
Xite91 - The second most frustrating living player in this game.
Locke - Pinged my scumdar for something that it doesn't benefit the town to share.
animorpherv1 - Not only the "wait, he's in this game?" player, but quick glances at vote counts don't look good. Wouldn't stand in the way of his lynch at all.

The ones with multiple votes

Rhinox - I haven't been agreeing with a lot of what he says. Hard to say exactly what that means.
Super Smash Bros. Fan - My opinion of him has been going Town->Scum throughout the game. Not my top suspect, but shouldn't have all the votes he does.
Ythan - This scum needs to die ASAP so we can get those votes back into town's hands. Hell, even if I'm wrong and he's town, let's get the votes to someone useful.

[Kmd4390]

Based on feel, here's everyone:

Ythan - town
Batt - town
xite - town
kmd - town

charlie - idk
locke - idk

Jahudo - town
esurio - town

plum - idk

Amished - town/idk

nacho - idk/scum

SSBF - scum

chrono - idk/scum
holy - idk/scum

ani - scum

If Rhinox is scum, so is Amished. I'd look for one orange next. Basically, his buddies will be spread pretty evenly on this list. I'm not very good at guessing how many scum there are, but yeah. That's how it'll work. Amished being the only "town/idk" isn't a point in his favor if Rhinox is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Mod, I apologize for the blue. Forgot to check the rule until after I posted. Feel free to change it to black if it's a problem

[Ythan]

I'm town, Kmd just can't tell because he skims and sheeps.

[Kmd4390]

Changing names of those who have been replaced:

Shattered Viewpoint

(12) - Ythan,

EGL

, esurio, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Amished, Charlie, kmd4390, holycon,

towmz

, animorpherv1, Batt,

millar13

Plum (3) - Jahudo, nachomamma8,

Michel

RichardGHP

(3) - Xite91, Plum, chronopie
Super Smash Bros. Fan (1) -

Shattered Viewpoint

Chronopie (1) - rhinox

Michel (1) - Diacria

Not Voting (2) - Locke,

RichardGHP

On the Shattered wagon: Ythan, Esurio, Smash Bras, Amished, Charlie, holy, animorph, Batt
On the Richard mini-wagon: Xite, Plum, Chro
Wasted vote or no vote: Rhinox, Locke

Jahudo and Nacho were on a wagon that was large at one point. Shattered flipped town, so it's not a counter wagon to a scumbuddy. They get town points. I have massive town reads on Charlie and holy, so they're fine. Ythan and Esurio are early enough on the wagon that it's fine.

ScumSet TM - {Smash Bras, Amished, Animorph, Batt} , {Xite,

Chro

}, {Rhinox, Locke}
---In theory, each ScumSet TM should include at least one scum.

Day 2:

EGL

(9) - nachomamma8, jahudo, Locke Lamora, Charlie, kmd4390,

RichardGHP

, rhinox, esurio

RichardGHP

(5) - animorpherv1,

Michel

, Amished, Xite91, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Charlie (2) -

Twomz

Super Smash Bros. Fan (1) - Chronopie
Chronopie (1) - holycon

Michel

(1) - Batt
Not Voting (4) -

EGL

, Plum,

millar13

, Ythan

EGL lynch: nachomamma8, jahudo, Locke Lamora, Charlie, rhinox, esurio
Wasted/No vote: Chro, Holy, Batt, Plum, Ythan

Nacho and Jahudo are early enough. We know my town reads.

ScumSet TM - {Locke, Rhinox, Esurio} , {Chro, Batt, Ythan}

Day 3:

RichardGHP

(12) – Ythan, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Jahudo, Chronopie, Nachomamma8, Battousai, holycon, rhinox
Super Smash Bros. Fan (8) – Amished, Xite91, Plum,

MichelSableheart

, kmd4390,

RichardGHP

, Locke Lamora
Battousai (1) – animorpherv1
Animorpherv1 (1) – esuriospiritus
Not Voting (1) - Charlie

Richard lynch: Ythan, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Jahudo, Chronopie, Nachomamma8, Battousai, holycon, rhinox
Wasted/No vote: Animorph, Esurio, Charlie

Anyone on the Day 1 Richard Mini-wagon AND this Richard lynch is removed from THIS ScumSet TM AND the previous Richard ScumSet TM for consistency points. Chro is the only one who fits. Not removing early votes because a Richard vote out of the gate could still be opportunistic (Yes, I'm going with a qualitative reason rather than quantitative. Deal with it.)

I'm starting to think Smash Bras is scum. because he was next to the Richard wagon. Hard to call anyone on that wagon scum until we see a flip. Massive town points to anyone on it if he flips scum, but it could be a ScumSet TM if he flips town. Need a Smash Bras flip before I can go back to it. Calling it null until then.

ScumSet TM - {Ythan, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Jahudo, Nachomamma8, Battousai, rhinox} , {Animorph}

ScumSet TMs for each Day:
Day 1: {

Smash Bras

,

Amished

,

Animorph

,

Batt

} , {

Xite

}, {

Rhinox

,

Locke

}
Day 2: {

Locke

,

Rhinox

,

Esurio

} , {

Chro

,

Batt

,

Ythan

}
Day 3: {

Ythan

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan,

Jahudo,

Nachomamma8

,

Battousai

,

rhinox

} , {

Animorph

}

Number of Days included in ScumSet TM's by player:

3:Rhinox, Batt

2:Ythan, Smash Bras, Locke, Animorph

1: Amished, Nacho, Chro, Jahudo, Xite, esurio

0: Plum, Charlie, holy

So with at least one scum in each set...
-

Xite

and

Animorph

must be scum.
-

Rhinox and Batt

are very likely scum.

^Those are the players most worth lynching today. If I'm wrong, the next ones to look at are the ones in orange:Ythan, Smash Bras, Locke.

Smash Bras being town would make Amished, Xite91, Locke Lamora another set for Day 3. This would upgrade Amished and Xite to Orange and Locke to red.

If Smash Bras is town, Xite, Animorph, Rhinox, Batt, and Locke are the most likely scum.
If Smash Bras is scum, Smash Bras, Xite, Animorph, Rhinox, and Batt are the most likely scum.

The biggest change is basically Locke. It's a connection between him and Smash Bras.

I'll vote in a separate post to avoid confusing the Mod.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Xite x2

HoS Animorph, Rhinox, Batt, Smash Bras

FoS Ythan, Locke

[Kmd4390]

I'm town, Kmd just can't tell because he skims and sheeps.

Lies.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, Charlie is now confirmed town.

Scum are:
Animorph
Amished

Pittbunny

Batt
Ythan

Twomz
Richard

Let's lynch one of them. I don't care which one.

I refuse to believe I was completely wrong here. I'd love to lynch Batt/Animorph at some point. I'd really like to lynch Ythan at some point. I wouldn't mind lynching Amished at some point.

[Kmd4390]

Actually,

Unvote, Vote Batt

I know Xite is alone in a ScumSet TM, but I'm more confident voting the red names.

[Kmd4390]

Based on feel, here's everyone:

Ythan - town
Batt - town
xite - town
kmd - town

charlie - idk
locke - idk

Jahudo - town
esurio - town

plum - idk

Amished - town/idk

nacho - idk/scum

SSBF - scum

chrono - idk/scum
holy - idk/scum

ani - scum

If Rhinox is scum, so is Amished. I'd look for one orange next. Basically, his buddies will be spread pretty evenly on this list. I'm not very good at guessing how many scum there are, but yeah. That's how it'll work. Amished being the only "town/idk" isn't a point in his favor if Rhinox is scum.

Rhinox scum means:
Scum-Amished, Locke, nacho or chro, Smash Bras or Animorph, Ythan, Batt, or Xite.

Most likely Amished, Locke, Batt, and Smash Bras. Nacho if there is another.

[Amished]

FML I need to catch up. Sorry everyone, post catching everything important that I missed will come tonight, promise!

[Battousai]

Rhinox- It's not my fault that I didn't find too much relevant issue in the vote chart. I posted it because it took me over an hour to do and I figured someone else might be able to use it who doesn't feel like wasting their time.

Battousai - Replaced Pittbunny who I was sure was scum. Started out scummy. Then went and pinged one of my solid town tells. WTF BATT.

I'm good at pinging town tells. I can ping yours allllll night long.

Jahudo and Nacho were on a wagon that was large at one point. Shattered flipped town, so it's not a counter wagon to a scumbuddy. They get town points.

Not sure on that one. The wagon started to dwindle and Jahudo switched to Raider as that wagon was picking up steam. Seemed to me that Jahudo-scum switched votes to a wagon that was more likely to be lynched. Not knowing Raider's alignment is hard to judge if he might have been pre-bussing or just trying to get someone lynched.

I'd be more willing to go back to my SSBF vote once Ythan starts contributing more than what he has this last couple days.

[Xite91]

Quick list:

The obvtown

Plum - Raider's wagon earlier made him town or something. Can't remember specifics but I remember deciding that him and CSL were town.
holycon - Pinged a town tell early. I don't remember what, but I remember it was strong.

The ones who I don't feel comfortable calling town

Xite91 - The second most frustrating living player in this game.

Plum - I had the same feeling that Raider was town, but it was more that VI feeling. Plum, however, is a different character. Read her based on her play.
holy - Town commit scumtells, scum commit towntells, one is never enough to determine alignment
me - so I'm frustrating? How? And how does that make me scummy? Ythan's frustrating too... oh wait, are you just trying to push policy votes or something?

On the Richard mini-wagon: Xite, Plum, Chro
ScumSet TM - {Smash Bras, Amished, Animorph, Batt} , {Xite,

Chro

}, {Rhinox, Locke}
---In theory, each ScumSet TM should include at least one scum.

So.... you THINK plum might be town based on her replacee's play, so you leave her out of this, and so chrono is consistent, he could be consistently scum. That is a terrible analysis, just gonna say. It's too biased. You're supposed to go with all the information, not just the info that suits you

Battousai - Replaced Pittbunny who I was sure was scum. Started out scummy. Then went and pinged one of my solid town tells. WTF BATT.

I'm good at pinging town tells. I can ping yours allllll night long.

I lol'd

[Kmd4390]

Jahudo is now confirmed town. Thanks batt.

-----

Xite, nah. Plum is town. Trust me on this one.

I'll say it again. You have a lot to learn. Sometimes, one tell is all it takes.

No, I don't push policy when I have scum. You are frustrating because your logic makes no sense and I can't tell if its because you're you or because you are pushing something you don't believe.

Chro was consistent in his opinion of richard, so hopping richard's lynching wagon isn't scummy. I didn't leave him out of other sets he belonged in.

Lol!!! Of course my reads are biased otherwise they wouldn't be "my reads". Just like you not likning it is biased because it points to you and probably your scumbuddies as scum. You should bus batt now. It'll give you town points.

[LlamaFluff]

animorpherv1 has requested replacement

/cross replaced rant

[Xite91]

1) Xite, nah. Plum is town. Trust me on this one.

2) I'll say it again. You have a lot to learn. Sometimes, one tell is all it takes.

3) No, I don't push policy when I have scum. You are frustrating because your logic makes no sense and I can't tell if its because you're you or because you are pushing something you don't believe.

4) Chro was consistent in his opinion of richard, so hopping richard's lynching wagon isn't scummy. I didn't leave him out of other sets he belonged in.

5) Lol!!! Of course my reads are biased otherwise they wouldn't be "my reads". Just like you not likning it is biased because it points to you and probably your scumbuddies as scum. You should bus batt now. It'll give you town points.

1) and how do you know this?
2) No, one tell is not always all it takes, especially when person A is saying person B is town based on a towntell person A won't share because others won't bite at said tell.
3) Funny thing is, I know at least one of your "reads" are wrong. Here's and idea, read me based on my play, not me as a person. People do become different over the internet, that's a proven fact. Also, point out where my logic makes no sense. And then, tell me why. I completely believe in what I'm saying, and to me, it makes perfect sense.
4) Fair enough, but again, that's really rather null than scummy or townie if you think about it.
5) Yes, your READS are allowed to be biased, but when you're giving us INFORMATION, it should not be biased. You should include EVERYONE in those brackets that "belong" there, including your town reads, because, hey, your town reads can be wrong. You are not the mod, and therefore you do not know everyone's roles. Also, I don't need town points. I do what I do based off of my reads, I don't give a shit what others think is townie or not, if you think I'm scum, tell everyone WHY without biased INFORMATION and then, if it's convincing, people might even follow you, then get me lynched based on how I've played and not based on who I am. kthnxbai

[Amished]

(opening notes, will be erased on each's usefulness to counter popular ideas)
ssbf is scum
batt slightly scummy
Charlie ... I need to look over again cause I have a hard time reading people like him. I think the most damning point against him in my eyes is that while scummy, he hasn't really gotten close to a lynch. Somebody like that typically gets lynched as town so it's possible that scum are deflecting away from their scumbuddy. Ok, these last 5 pages make me want to shoot Charlie.
SSBF still scum

@Batt: Asking the question of Richard (why scum would block him had he been CPR doc) was a way to see if he would slip up as scum and reveal information about either him-scum or a partner's power. If he responded about why he would be the target and flipped scum; then I would have known that there almost certainly isn't a roleblocker due to Richard's inside information. As it turned out, Richard wasn't scum so the question is now pointless.

@Jahudo: Please link me (or explain) your case on whomever you think is scummiest, I'm blanking on where you actually stand this game other than against Xite's case on SSBF.

@KMD: Can your case on {Batt, Rhinox} be described as "wagony" essentially? (Followup to come)

Jesus Christ you guys haven't said shit lately. Vote SSBF and then we can work with a scumflip.

[esuriospiritus]

@KMD: Rhinox and Pitt both gave me strong gut town vibes in the early game. I'm slightly more ambivalent about Battousai but until he does something obv scummy I am sticking with my early gut read. Interestingly this gives me much more reason to be suspicious of Locke if otherwise your scumset brackets are correct, since he's in one with Rhinox and another with both myself and Rhinox. That is a really big 'if' though, because you took people out of the brackets you felt were obvtown

before

doing the final analysis. I'm sure you're not right about people 100% of the time, even when you think someone dropped a really good tell, so removing those people beforehand kind of damages the integrity of the analysis imo. :/ I mean, if someone just happens to be awesome at fooling you, you're ignoring the kind of empirical evidence that would cause you to open your eyes.

Also, interested in knowing who you think is scum if Rhinox is town.

@Xite: Have you read Raider/Plum and SSBF in back-to-back iso together? You said you were suspicious of both of them. Do you think they make more sense as part of a scumteam together, or do you think one is probably town if the other is scum?

My scum brackets so far, all in one place for ease of reference later:

[animorpherv1, chronopie, Jahudo, Locke Lamora, Nachomamma8, SSBF, Ythan]

(people who were lurkerish end of day 1 - STRONG bracket if Raider/Plum flips town, somewhat weaker bracket otherwise)

[Ythan, SSBF, Amished, Charlie, kmd4390, holycon, animorpherv1, Battousai]

(people who were on SV wagon - STRONG bracket if Raider/Plum flips scum, somewhat weaker bracket otherwise)

[Amished, animorpherv1, Locke Lamora, Chronopie, Plum, Xite91]

(People who have avoided being on lynch wagons - STRONG bracket regardless, more weight on anyone with meta of being cautious as scum)

I'm sick right now (got a new cat, allergies are hell, etc) so I don't feel like doing that PBPA I promised. Mehhh.