Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[singersigner]

I like lookers play. It is pro town, scummy or not.

I think zwet over CKD because zwet felt the need to claim AFTER he could have easily flown under the radar. Instead he goes and leechs of the townie vibes surrounding the earlier claim.

Actually, my impression was that he was more or less counter-claiming in case he thought we were lying. I probably would've done the same thing to let the rest of the town know that "hey, they might be lying," or that "hey, there's more than one so now you know there's not just one target to blame."

[Looker]

Did you ever answer Pom's question?

I'm getting terrible vibes from SS. I think that CKD revealed an okay amount, and we were fine without knowing it was a 1-shot. That's not so bad though.

The way CKD summarized the QT doesn't put SS in a positive light-

SS, do you agree with the way CKD explained the conversation in your QT?

Still, we should lynch Espy now.

[singersigner]

Oops, my bad. I totally got distracted and didn't mean to overlook that.

Um...yeah, he copy-pasted everything, so there's not really anything he could've explained that you couldn't agree or disagree with yourself. I wouldn't necessarily agree with the fact that he specifically says in the QT to keep the doc thing quiet, and then proceeds to claim it, but that's just my opinion. I also feel like I should put a disclaimer for my predecessor's stupidity...I'm not him, and I wouldn't have joked around like that before I even knew who or what I was up against (considering I didn't know CKD's alignment at the time, and now I can gather town from him). I think that was just a VI mistake on his part.

Again, because of his name claim, I don't think CKD is scum. Outspoken, and stubborn, sure. But not scum.

zwet and pom...did you guys have any doubts as to the alignment of each other?

[CooLDoG]

@horror, you haven't posted any content EXPLAIN NOW. and you did say that it (in other words) invalidated his point. And Why do you think lookers argument is moot?

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote, vote cooldog

thats what I thought

[DemonHybrid]

Still looking for Jack's explanation on why Espy's wagon is laziness.

@Mod: Votecount please?

[PranaDevil]

Opens with a solid point on zwet, follows up with pointing out Espy had, indeed, pointed out Snake's claim well before he had (I didn't even put much thought into Looker pointing it out because Espy had already shown it quite clearly by then anyway, why is Looker getting grief for that and not Espy?)

Are you fucking serious? *facepalm* Look at Espy's post!

unvote

Came in late and didn't realise that RV had pretty much finished. I shoule Watch out more I guess.

Dude, seriously?

Someone explain how the HELL you can translate that as "You shouldn't have sofclaimed"?

Okay, now tell me the pro-town reasons for Espy's post there. And what you think the "Dude, seriously?" was referring to. That goes to both you HD, and Espy. What the hell was that comment referring to and what pro-town benefit that post gives us.

Looker is obv. town, he's pushing people, and pointing out things that need pointing out.

How the fuck is pointing out a softclaim something that needs to be done and is obvtown? WTF?

Fair enough, that wasn't a great thing, but Espy had already done so, quite blatantly (I will admit I ignored it in the hope others had, but I feel the need to back up Looker in that he wasn't the one and only person, nor the first, to point it out). But what about the fact you're ignoring that Looker has made good points towards Zwet, Vezo and Espy? Do they all get ignored for what I can make out as one bad post in a sea of scum hunting?

Looker is scum, and when he flips as such, I think I'm gonna be taking a closer look at Prana.

Awesome to know that you're going to not bother checking me unless Looker flips scum, how about using your time and resources to look me over now if you're that certain? Or are you just playing things carefully to see where issues lie? Or are you worried that when Looker flips it's going to be town (because you'd know wouldn't you?) and want to be able to back up hard and fast if need be? I'll go with option number 2.

More to the point, thanks to your defence of Espy (despite the fact he blatantly pointed out a claim) if either of you now flip town, I'll bet the house (if I had one at any road) on the other flipping scum as well.

[CooLDoG]

@CKD, why the vote, I know what you claimed if that is what you are asking. You claimed that you are a neighbored to some one. And one of the two is scum. Together you two are a 1-shot vig, am I correct? Would you stop refusing to answer my question, I know you have already given the answer and I have looked it up, I want you to say it again.

[vezokpiraka]

I'm here.
Sorry internet screwed up.

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD, why the vote, I know what you claimed if that is what you are asking. You claimed that you are a neighbored to some one. And one of the two is scum. Together you two are a 1-shot vig, am I correct? Would you stop refusing to answer my question, I know you have already given the answer and I have looked it up, I want you to say it again.

if you read it, then you should understand it..if you dont understand it,here is more critical thinking excerises for you....just keep at it..you will get it, if you really want us to believe you want the answer.

so I am a neighbor with someone, good, you are correct.

I never said that one of the two is scum (though I do suspect SS, so I guess I can understand your confusion).

Ok, you almost got all of the claim, and I am down right proud of you....but..you did leave out something.

What happens if I die (hint: part of that claim mechanic) with my role?....

EDIT: I am being an asshole, because your question has been answered (at least twice)...I thought about going back and requoting it, but...you see I am not totally sure you are actually scum hunting....so you are either a.) slow and actually need these critical thinking exercises or b.) scum who tried to look like they were scum hunting, but have been backed into a corner after being called out for it...

so, if want everyone to believe you are scum hunting..you have to play along...unless of course, you want to admit you actually know the reason i claimed.

[curiouskarmadog]

also, I am not refusing you answer your question....keep playing along, and your "question" will be answered.

[PranaDevil]

If CKD were to be NKd the way he claimed, wouldn't his role be shown upon death?

This is why I was asking about the specific role name earlier, if it does, in fact, state in the role name that they are joint together, then claiming was a pointless task as the name should inform people what's going on.

[DemonHybrid]

Just a reminder that the deadline is nearly exactly 3 days from now.

[horrordude0215]

@horror, you haven't posted any content EXPLAIN NOW. and you did say that it (in other words) invalidated his point. And Why do you think lookers argument is moot?

Roflmao. Look at my ISO and tell me how I haven't posted any content.

And looker's argument is moot because once I called him out on the breadcrumb and all of his other scumminess, he was flailing and picking out any post he could and saying "Well what about that?". It was full of fail, basically.

Opens with a solid point on zwet, follows up with pointing out Espy had, indeed, pointed out Snake's claim well before he had (I didn't even put much thought into Looker pointing it out because Espy had already shown it quite clearly by then anyway, why is Looker getting grief for that and not Espy?)

Are you fucking serious? *facepalm* Look at Espy's post!

unvote

Came in late and didn't realise that RV had pretty much finished. I shoule Watch out more I guess.

Dude, seriously?

Someone explain how the HELL you can translate that as "You shouldn't have sofclaimed"?

Okay, now tell me the pro-town reasons for Espy's post there. And what you think the "Dude, seriously?" was referring to. That goes to both you HD, and Espy. What the hell was that comment referring to and what pro-town benefit that post gives us.

The pro-townness of that post was him calling out someone that should have been paying attention the the thread. It's a "Dude, you seriously haven't noticed that?"

Looker is obv. town, he's pushing people, and pointing out things that need pointing out.

How the fuck is pointing out a softclaim something that needs to be done and is obvtown? WTF?

Fair enough, that wasn't a great thing, but Espy had already done so, quite blatantly (I will admit I ignored it in the hope others had, but I feel the need to back up Looker in that he wasn't the one and only person, nor the first, to point it out). But what about the fact you're ignoring that Looker has made good points towards Zwet, Vezo and Espy? Do they all get ignored for what I can make out as one bad post in a sea of scum hunting?

Esp admitted that he hadn't blatantly pointed it out. Nice try, but no.

And I didn't say anything about me ignoring Vezo, Zwet, or Espy. I'm focusing on Looker right now though.

Looker is scum, and when he flips as such, I think I'm gonna be taking a closer look at Prana.

Awesome to know that you're going to not bother checking me unless Looker flips scum, how about using your time and resources to look me over now if you're that certain? Or are you just playing things carefully to see where issues lie? Or are you worried that when Looker flips it's going to be town (because you'd know wouldn't you?) and want to be able to back up hard and fast if need be? I'll go with option number 2.

More to the point, thanks to your defence of Espy (despite the fact he blatantly pointed out a claim) if either of you now flip town, I'll bet the house (if I had one at any road) on the other flipping scum as well.

I'm not looking at you now because I have a stronger read on Looker. I've stated this already.

And my defense of Espy? Where?

[PranaDevil]

1 - I don't believe Espy didn't catch the "watch" part of Snake's post. I believe Espy is definite scum and he's now backtracking because he sees a chance at getting town mislynched over something. That's my interpretation of his actions anyway.

2 - I never said YOU haven't seen stuff about Vezo/Espy/Zwet, I'm stating that you are ignoring the good and decent points that Looker has made and instead are focusing on a very poor argument against him.

3 - Am I mistaken in thinking we have more than a single scum member in this game? Am I also mistaken in thinking everyone should be a suspect in some form? Rather then focusing on one person, try focusing on more than one. With 18 players we likely have a minimum of 4 scum, even if Looker IS scum, there's 3 others out there at least, possibly 4 more (and who knows if we have any third party roles), so concentrating solely on Looker is exceptionally poor play.

4 - Your defence of Espy comes in the fact you are ignoring the fact he's not been beneficial to town so far, has been scummy in general, pointed out Snake's claim (okay, you feel differently, but as far as I'm concerned he made it quite obvious), and so far the most memorably thing he's done so far is a buddy up with Jack. Yet you are willing to ignore everything about him in favour of calling Looker scum because he... felt Espy had already pointed something out?

Hey, I'll accept it was crap play that Looker made a bigger deal of the Snake claim (I avoided it in case others hadn't noticed it, though I highly doubt at least one of the scum team wouldn't have done so).

However, if we consider the fact that Looker and myself both read Espy's post as pointing out that Snake claimed Watcher, and others feel it was for continuing the RVS (Either way it was a pointless waste of a post by Espy anyway), does that not just show that it could be taken two ways? Now you've said that it pointed out the RVS I can perhaps accept it could be seen that way (I still noticed the Watch bit first, but whatever, it was a terribly poor bread crumb as it was less hidden carefully and more dropped in like a bowling ball on your foot).

So that moves it down to you suggesting that someone feeling a post was pointing out something different to what you feel it was pointing out is scummy. This is not so in the slightest.

Finally, and also to be quite fair, most importantly, where's Looker's scum motivation for pointing out the watcher role? I agree it's crap play, but why the hell would he point it out in thread? This doesn't even begin to stray into WIFOM territory because it is simply crap scum play to point that out in the thread, he would just point it out to his scum mates either immediately or during night phase (depending on the scum set-up). So tell me where the scum motivation comes from pointing that out, please.

[Looker]

Looker has done nothing but mainly active lurk disguised as solid scumhunting

Zwet, you've done nothing. I like that you said it's disguised as

"solid"

scumhunting, though.

Okay, so Looker's argument is moot. Lynch plz

I think you misunderstood my argument. Also, regarding the doctor part of your 385: I stated that making a guessing game out of SnakePlissken's protection was better than giving scum a straight shot; however, if you're trying to paint me out to be the Doctor by calling me presumptuous, then you're no step above what you accused me of.

@ HD: Not until you pointed it out. I can see it now without having to go back and actually see when the softclaim was outed.

So, for the record, to what was your post responding?

I'm here.
Sorry internet screwed up.

What do you think about the lurkers in this thread? Would you mind naming them?

@CKD, why the vote, I know what you claimed if that is what you are asking. You claimed that you are a neighbored to some one. And one of the two is scum. Together you two are a 1-shot vig, am I correct? Would you stop refusing to answer my question, I know you have already given the answer and I have looked it up, I want you to say it again.

Are you expecting him to say it differently? Also, are you still voting Espeonage due to his affiliation with Jack?

Now you've said that it pointed out the RVS I can perhaps accept it could be seen that way (I still noticed the Watch bit first, but whatever, it was a terribly poor bread crumb as it was less hidden carefully and more dropped in like a bowling ball on your foot).

And it was to this poorness that I thought Espeonage's post was responding.

The role names have me mixed up. I could understand a safeclaim given to curiouskarmadog and zwetschenwasser, but the mechanics of everything are still eluding me. I definitely believe they'd have been given a fakeclaim, though. Is there anyway you could elaborate more on your roles?

also, I am not refusing you answer your question....keep playing along, and your "question" will be answered.

Are you voting him because he's stupid? What happened to your vote on SS? It really does look like you're voting him for being lazy. Also, why would he have to pretend to scumhunt when he could sit on his wagon all day without any scrutiny whatsoever?

[Looker]

We should probably get to lynching someone about now.

[PranaDevil]

I'll agree with that.

Mod, vote count please

I'd rather we lynched Esp, second favourite would be Vezo, and while I'm not totally happy with his play, I think Zwet is a distant third, so I'd vote him but somewhat under duress as I feel he needs pressuring and pushing more as I've not really seen enough from him for me to be positive he's scum.

unvote
vote: Espy

I will switch to Vezo if that's the direction we appear to be going as I'm happy with both as I say, I just prefer Espy's lynch right now.

[Looker]

Espeonage

(6) - a2rudeboy; CooLDoG; DemonHybrid; Pomegranate; vollkan; PranaDevil

CooLDoG

(1) - curiouskarmadog

Zwetschenwasser

(1) - Espeonage

Looker

(2) - horrordude0215; zwetschenwasser

Nero Cain

(1) - Jack

Jack

(1) - Nero Cain

Curiouskarmadog

(1) - Looker

Vezokpiraka

(2) - SnakePlissken; Singersigner

Horrordude0215

(2) - Stef; vezokpiraka

[Jack]

espy is only a wagon because he started out as one and scum are sticking with it

Aka cooldog

unvote, vote:cooldog

[DemonHybrid]

espy is only a wagon because he started out as one and scum are sticking with it

Aka cooldog

unvote, vote:cooldog

Do you have a case to back up your opinion?

[Pomegranate]

zwet and pom...did you guys have any doubts as to the alignment of each other?

Well... I don't get a scummy vibe from him or anything. However, with the dynamics of the neighborhoods, I feel like there's a slightly raised possibility of him being scum over anyone else in the game at random.

[curiouskarmadog]

If CKD were to be NKd the way he claimed, wouldn't his role be shown upon death?

This is why I was asking about the specific role name earlier, if it does, in fact, state in the role name that they are joint together, then claiming was a pointless task as the name should inform people what's going on.

but the claim wont have my partner will it?...and then you wouldnt know...come on, this isnt rocket science.

[curiouskarmadog]

@looker, right now, you, SS, and cooldog are on top of my scum list...SS is leading the pack.

that being said, what makes you think I am voting CD for being lazy? He has stated he has read my claim (after some prodding)...I think I have caught him in some bullshit act to look like he is scum hunting (stated this in my vote). I am going to keep backing him in the corner...(ie to see where he really wants to take this). I have a point at the end of it, but good money says he isnt going to let it get that far and will bail on the question.

still waiting on you CD.

[singersigner]

If CKD were to be NKd the way he claimed, wouldn't his role be shown upon death?

This is why I was asking about the specific role name earlier, if it does, in fact, state in the role name that they are joint together, then claiming was a pointless task as the name should inform people what's going on.

but the claim wont have my partner will it?...and then you wouldnt know...come on, this isnt rocket science.

The claim will give a clue as to what

your

alignment is, though (regardless of me). They can at least figure out whether or not they trust the first claim, and then from there, whatever the second claim is. This is why I'm inclined to believe your claim, because it's exactly the same as mine, and I know I'm town-aligned because of it...so you must be, too, right?