Mini 1061: Mafia in Someplace - Game Over!

[Iamnobody]

Hello all, I'm here and ready to play. I haven't read through everything yet, but I will do that tonight and get another post out. I'm in the Central Time Zone of the USA.

Good luck to all.

[ICEninja]

Link me a game you did this as town, and a game you did this as scum.

I'm pretty sure I've asked these 3 questions in every single game I've played on MS. I've only been scum once, and I did it there as well. If you need the links I will provide, but you should be able to find out such information fairly easily yourself.

What would you say your normal play is like? Do you find aggression a town-tell, scum, or null/neutral?

I would say my normal play is very logic and case oriented, and based around finding solid reasons for someone being scum before really targeting anyone heavily. I have felt in this game, however, that I'm finding more probably scum action early on than I normally do during day 1. I don't usually present aggression as either a town tell or a scum tell, but it is generally more dangerous for scum to be aggressive early. Therefore under some circumstances, I feel it is a town tell. If someone is overly aggressive for weak reasoning, it is a scum tell.

What is the reasoning for this vote?

I as well didn't like the fact that he didn't include this information with his vote post, but he did disclose this information. Read the rest of his posts.

The only reason I am buddying with Retro is its our first game together on MS (Although we have played probably literally a hundred or more on EM). If its a concern, then I apologize, but I am not going to stop. He's a friend.

As I said in an earlier post, I do not believe that Retro and Slaxx's current interactions indicate scum. I was previously aware of their connection in EM and have seen friendly banter from Retro, and would expect that this is probably commonplace in EM. I disagree with el simo who is attacking them for this.

Retro, you're definitely overly jumpy about the 2 votes on you. You seem to imply that multiple people are getting on your case for your interactions with Slaxx. Sweep pointed out a very small case against Slaxx, and el simo did so about you. I don't see all the pressure that you seem to be feeling, and I'm curious as to why you're getting all bent out of shape about it.

I don't necessarily know that you saying there were 3 mafia was a scum slip. If it was, it is extremely damning. If it wasn't, then it was completely innocent. I'm definitely not ready to see you lynched for it. However, I do believe that scum can mess up and give something away on the first 3 pages just like they can on day 3. My vote is on you to see where you go from here and how you react, and i will then later decide if you're playing towards town won condition or scum win condition.

Had you said something to the effect of there always being 3 scum in a 12 player game at EM, I definitely would have bought that. However, your earlier statement just seemed too absolute, as I pointed out in your wording, to be written off as a guess.

At the moment I can't logically determine anything, but my gut is screaming scum for Retro. Anyone who has played with me, however, knows that I don't rely much on my gut reads until I can qualify them.

And wow, I didn't even know we had a player named "Iamnobody". You need to get in here and put down some analysis of whats happened during the first 3 pages.

[TheLonging]

Other players, the one that comes to mind at the moment is Sweep, has only posted useless garbage that doesn't give anything to town.

His first post, while being a confirmation post so I can't read too much in to it, throws a joke in there. Then his second post is a vote based on literally the most worthless basis possible. RNG based votes aren't even going to get reactions out of people or create discussion. The fact that you're throwing in such empty posts considering there is already active discussion leads me to believe that you're more interested in not being noticed than anything else.

This is earlier than I usually make a move, but I'm feeling aggressive today.

Vote Sweep

.

Making a case out of RVS votes. lol

Slaxx hasn't given me a whole lot that I feel like I can read. I like his point about Longing, but I don't exactly agree with the tell. I just like the fact that he's found tells so early.

Likewise, I don't feel like I can get much of a read from Longing, Ben, or Elleran.

There is so much bullshit in here it isn't even funny.

Well the piece of the puzzle is this: I highly doubt one scum would shoot down an initial town read coming from a townie on their scumbuddy. Especially this early in the game. I'm not saying El Simo and TheLonging can't be partners, I am just saying its actually a pretty decent initial tell. Neither have done anything particularly scummy, so we'll leave it be for now.

unvote

Vote:Sweep

He's the only person to try and suggest scumteams this early, especially me and El Simo (of all people). The El Simo vote was to get people to try and talk, and Slaxx went along with it, abilet in a scummy way. And with this post? LOL He also joined a horrible BW, wow. And he doesn't seem genuine in what he says.

1) MA, USA
2) See sig, I played about 10 - 13 games offsite.
3) Depends on HS.

Sweep is 85% town here folks.

ICE ignores Sweep all of a sudden and goes to Retro. Retro gets a bit scummy by association.

So yeah, Slaxx and ICE are scum. Don't know who other scum could be but these 2 are sure bets

[Slaxx]

Read my post again, and this time try to not get overly defensive just because you see your name there, k? Thx.

[Slaxx]

Nah, you still won't get it. I was saying since I said I had an initial towntell on you and El Simo shot it down early that it was very unlikely you were scumbuddies.

Also just saying I am in-genuine with my reads isnt enough. Explain how. Because I would love to see you fight an uphill battle.

Any bandwagon that isn't a lynch is good in RVS. Sorry bro.

[el simo]

Retro, you seem a little confused. There is about one line in that post that actually refers to what I said, the rest is irrelevant WIFOM nonsense.

To address that one line, I'm not putting words in your mouth. I never said that you claimed something you didn't. I stated that what you claimed was akin to what I said. You said, "If Slaxx was gonna buddy me, he would make it much less hella obvious." In other words, what he was doing is so 'hella obvious' that he can't be scum. This is a logical fallacy and full of WIFOM.

I am voting you for based on my experience with scum and this argument. The rest of you what rambled on about has nothing to do with me and is just more WIFOM.

I disagree with el simo who is attacking them for this.

I haven't done any such thing. But I agree with you about his jumpy defence and his excuse about scum numbers.

[Jase]

/Confirm

Cripes, four pages before I confirm...

I'm central timezone, and I'm going to bed. I'll actually read up tomorrow.

Vote: TheLonging

There is no way those glasses could stay on. >:-[

[TheLonging]

Read my post again, and this time try to not get overly defensive just because you see your name there, k? Thx.

Oh you're reading it wrong. I'm saying it's complete bullshit as well because that tell isn't reliable at all, AND on top of that, the fact that you couldn't get a "decent" read makes it all the more lulz.

Any bandwagon that isn't a lynch is good in RVS. Sorry bro.

You're saying this like scum don't enjoy BW's in RVS, when it's quite the contrary.

[Slaxx]

It's not complete bullshit, not relative to any other tell in this game. Longing, if you have a better way to get out of Rvs besides bandwagons and discussion then pleeeeeease educate me.

[TheLonging]

OK, complete bullshit was a misrep, sorry. I mean to say "it's not reliable all the time, usually works about 20% of the time". And yes I do: I could have fakeclaimed, or just simply post bullshit all the time. But I'm not. See, the bandwagon I created was to see who would join quick and without a thought. You just kind of uh.... did nothing. And joined. Don't worry, Ice made a bullshit case on Sweep, and others joined a horrible bandwagon, which in my view, "clear" Sweep of being scum because scum aren't that stupid.

[el simo]

because scum aren't that stupid.

Don't ever do this.

[ICEninja]

Longing's post was awful. I definitely don't like it at all.

Making a case out of RVS votes. lol

I like a speedy exodus from RVS. I do believe we are in solid game, here. Since when is getting the game out of confusing silliness and in to serious discussion scummy?

There is so much bullshit in here it isn't even funny.

Excuse me? Either you are saying that my statement is bullshit because I couldn't find anything pro town or scummy in a few player's initial posts, or you're saying there's so much bullshit in the game already. Neither is true, really. Care to actually explain this besides calling it bullshit?

He's the only person to try and suggest scumteams this early, especially me and El Simo (of all people). The El Simo vote was to get people to try and talk, and Slaxx went along with it, abilet in a scummy way. And with this post? LOL He also joined a horrible BW, wow.

Firstly, he said you and el simo are not a scum team. Quite the opposite of what you are implying. Secondly, maybe you didn't realize it, but my Sweep vote was to get people to try and talk, yet you attacked me for it. You seem to have a double standard for yourself. Also, I'm not even sure you can call putting a player at L-3 a bandwagon.

Sweep is 85% town here folks.

Care to explain why? What do you base this statement on?

ICE ignores Sweep all of a sudden and goes to Retro. Retro gets a bit scummy by association.

Sweep makes a good post and Retro makes what I feel could be an extremely damning scum slip. How is what I did scummy?

So yeah, Slaxx and ICE are scum. Don't know who other scum could be but these 2 are sure bets

A big scum tell is if someone claims that someone is scum without a qualifier such as "if". He seems absolutely decided, using the words "sure bets". How can town possibly be so confident? Slaxx said such in the context of a joke, which is understandable, but I didn't find your post very joking.

While I'm hesitant to switch my vote so suddenly, as I think it serves its purpose well on Retro at the moment, I'd say Longing is the second most suspicious at the moment.

[TheLonging]

YOU MADE A CASE ON SOMEONE BASED ON ONLY THEIR RVS VOTES, WHEN THE GAME WAS STILL PARTLY IN RVS. HOW IS THAT NOT SCUMMY?

It's bullshit because we've said enough and interacted enough to actually be able to discern shit. For example; I led a BW on el for no reason other than reactions, I'm voting and keeping my vote on Slaxx because of what he has done, and after that, I have now pretty much thought that sweep has to be town.

ICE: Slaxx hopped on QUICK. SCUM HOP ON QUICK AS WELL.

"Retro, just bandwagon my vote. I'm right."

WHAT DOES THIS IMPLY???

"Care to explain why? What do you base this statement on?"

The horrendous BW and the horrendous case and that scum wouldn't be stupid enough to make a shitty case on scum.

Also point out the scum slip again? I can't read it in his enormous texts.

ICE: You do not know me. I am not afraid to take complete stances unless you or slaxx change my mind. I say what's on my mind, and I am so confident in my reads. I am a confident person. You should check it It's The Mafia Again from Parama. You should also ch- wait that's ongoing nvm.

You really don't like it cause I attack you. I get this, it's alright.

[Slaxx]

Playing with an open deck makes you easy to manipulate. Got to play with some cards face down kid. Bandwagoning for the sake of Bandwagoning this early ain't scummy cuz we know it ain't going to a lynch.

[Iamnobody]

Right now I just have one question for Ben. Earlier you said you were "without a doubt, the best player present". Why do you think you are?

[TheLonging]

Slaxx: You don't understand. That's WHY scum love to BW on RVS/psuedo-RVS votes. They think/know (usually the latter) they won't get caught. Really though, it's a good way to get scum.

[Slaxx]

K. I see it differently. If it ain't l1 it's fair game
IMO.

[TheLonging]

That's quite debatable actually

[diddin]

because scum aren't that stupid.

Don't ever do this.

Oh my god this so much. Scum can and will do whatever the fuck they want.

After a quick scan I don't really like ICE's vote on Sweep very much. Using random.org is NOT too much of a tell and of all the things to vote someone in the thread he chose that. Plus he didn't even random vote.

Iamnobody having nothing to bring to the table except for a question to Benmage is suspicious.

unvote

for now.

I just got back from my school homecoming dance, I need to collect my thoughts more. Cohesive post with a vote tomorrow morning.

Also as arrogant as it is for Ben to say he's the best player here he is probably right<___<.

[Slaxx]

TheLonging, I wouldn't clear sweep because of this. That was only like, 3 or 4 votes.

[Retrospective]

I just caught up. As far as the me guessing the number of mafia, they're not much more that can be said. You either think it was a scumslip or not. I did my best to explain it, it was a spur of the moment type thing. Considering there is no way for me to prove to you my train of thought, there is also no way for anyone else to prove I 'knew' the number of mafia because I was mafia. I'd appreciate if people would stop talking about this because I feel dumb and that it could easily go both ways and is essentially a nulltell.

Anyway, I find myself disagreeing with almost everything that TheLonging posts, however I think he's town from the fallacious logic that everyone is telling me not to use. He's doing a lot of stuff I couldn't see scum doing. Scum is confident, yes. But not usually this early. I think he started a vote as a reaction test and jumped on the first person who followed in the RVS. His case is bad, but I have a town feeling on him because it's so wrong. He's also not following in everybody's footsteps by fos'ing completely different people than anyone else. Expect this read to be fluid because I can see mafia jumping on an easy target in much the same way. Over all townread on him. I suppose you could put this in the gut read section.

@TheLonging; RVS's are generally meaningless. Mafia will gladly vote their partner because their partner is in no real danger. Clearing someone because they were bandwagoned first is terrible. Same can be said for who followed first.

@ICE; Dropping the number of mafia argument, do you still have a scumread on me? If so, why?

@el simo; Play in games are not set in stone. Players alter how they do thinks all the time. It's time you consider the entire game around you, not just very basic tells. Town uses advanced logic just as much as mafia. Instead of dismissing the argument, look at the arguement and make a decision. The act of using logic on typical mafia mindset isn't a scumtell and I find it a bit amusing that you seem to think it is.

[el simo]

Scum is confident

STOP DOING THIS

@el simo; Play in games are not set in stone. Players alter how they do thinks all the time. It's time you consider the entire game around you, not just very basic tells. Town uses advanced logic just as much as mafia. Instead of dismissing the argument, look at the arguement and make a decision. The act of using logic on typical mafia mindset isn't a scumtell and I find it a bit amusing that you seem to think it is.

You've lost the plot buddy.

[Retrospective]

k

[el simo]

You do know why I'm voting you, right? Because so far you've only defended yourself from a whole lot of things I didn't say.

[Retrospective]

You do know why I'm voting you, right? Because so far you've only defended yourself from a whole lot of things I didn't say.

How do you figure? Which points have I left unrefuted?