Mini 1061: Mafia in Someplace - Game Over!

[Slaxx]

I don't get how being angry at someone who is tunneling is appealing to the town. I get how its emotion. I don't get how its manipulating anyone else's.

[Slaxx]

"This fallacy is committed when someone manipulates peoples' emotions in order to get them to accept a claim as being true. More formally, this sort of "reasoning" involves the substitution of various means of producing strong emotions in place of evidence for a claim. If the favorable emotions associated with X influence the person to accept X as true because they "feel good about X," then he has fallen prey to the fallacy. "

I did not substitute any emotion for evidence.

[TheLonging]

I am not appealing to anyone emotionally

You're appealing to the town out of anger.

I am not appealing to anyone emotionally

You're appealing to the town out of anger.

I am not appealing to anyone emotionally

You're appealing to the town out of anger.

I am not appealing to anyone emotionally

You're appealing to the town out of anger.

I am not appealing to anyone emotionally

You're appealing to the town out of anger.

I am not appealing to anyone emotionally

You're appealing to the town out of anger.

Sorry, but if you lynch me for buddying (i.e if that is what makes or breaks your case) then I would encourage the town to take a STRONG look at you tomorrow because you know very good and well how personable I am during mafia games.

So you're misrepping me then. Good to know.

Also lol strict definitions

[Slaxx]

Posting it 50 fucking times doesn't make it anymore true.

I was not using the anger in anyway to prove a case against you or for me, I was remarking on how your confidence isn't as well earned as Parama's because I know Parama has a pretty good track record here on site. That is not AtE.

Also, you have played with me on EM so I have no clue what your problem is.

[el simo]

I don't get how being angry at someone who is tunneling is appealing to the town. I get how its emotion. I don't get how its manipulating anyone else's.

"then I would encourage the town to take a STRONG look at you tomorrow"

[Slaxx]

First of all, that still isn't AtE. If thats the case every townie who gives dying FoSs would be using it.

Secondly, he threw the word around before that post.

Fail more.

[Elleran]

@Slaxx: I'm not actively lurking. Why in the world would I not post in 4 pages as the pressure and suspicion on me just keep increasing? I also felt like I was hit by a truck when I had to read so many walls of text. I am unable to read this thread more than once or twice a day because of school. If 4 pages appear in a matter of few hours (it hasn't been a day since my last post), I'm not lurking: The others are just more relatively active.

Anyway, Slaxx. Your responses are getting more and more fiery. Why so serious?

VOTE: Slaxx

@el simo: How am I fencesitting? I'm trying my best to interpret your (and many others') walls of fairly dense texts. I'm taking stances on things, just not as quickly and adamantly as you are. Also, my play style tends to be more passive than aggressive (a clear difference between your style and mine). If you think my average stance doesn't qualify as a strong enough expression, then I can't do anything for you.

[DemonHybrid]

Elleran, you're voting Slaxx because his responses are getting more fierce?

Seriously?

[Slaxx]

LOL YESSSSS thanks man. You made this easy. What you did is set yourself up in a bad situation. If town lynches me, you are so gone tomorrow. If You're lynched today, I am pretty much cleared.

[ICEninja]

If I say "TheLonging is a terrible player" over and over again does that make my point valid?

Slaxx got irritated. I'm getting irritated too. If you think someone getting upset at another player for being irritating is AtE, then you need to learn what AtE is. Slaxx's definition is exactly right. You've got the emotion part down just fine, but you're missing the A. He didn't

appeal

to any emotion. He just expressed it. Him showing his emotions and him attempting to appeal to someone else through emotion is completely different. AtE is manipulation, not a verbal glove slap.

Granted, I don't like how hard Slaxx was trying to push Elloran votes. It is one thing to call someone scummy, but it is another thing to accuse someone like me of not voting Elloran because Elloran is my second or third suspicion.

Then again the way Elloran came in and voted Slaxx with terrible reasoning implies he's attempting to appease town. The vote looks very OMGUS filled, and probably wouldn't have voted if he wasn't pressured to do so.

Citing someone for being "fiery" and "serious" as scummy is terrible.

I believe him when he says the game is moving too fast, because it is. However if he doesn't get caught up and post a real case in the very near future, he's going to bump up a spot or two on my scum list for sure. I feel like Slaxx is dead right when he says if we lynch Slaxx and he flips town, Elloran is going to be extremely suspicious.

However, this really glaringly sticks out at me:

If You're lynched today, I am pretty much cleared.

Preemptively clearing yourself based on someone being lynched without considering the possibility he will flip town? This looks a lot to me like you're scum busing a partner for town cred. If Elloran is lynched and flips goon (non power role scum) then I will be extremely suspicious of you, even moreso than if Elloran flips townie.

[ICEninja]

EBWOP:

My apologizes, Elleran. I've been mispelling your name. I will correctly spell it from now on.

[Sweep]

How is that lynchworthy on its own? Why do you feel the need to unvote and revote for the same person you're voting. Your tunneling on Retro is NOT excusable just because you now apparently have a case on him. Sarcasm is NOT a scumtell. As a matter of fact, it is hypocritical that you are attacking Retro for not making a case yet when you barely had one with any original thought before hend?

I had to unvote and revote as my vote previously did not count as I did not unvote.

You can not justify playstyle as an excuse to scummy behaviour as if you do then you will never be scummy. It is the weakest defence in the book bar from I am town because I am not scum. Sarcasm in this case is a sign of anger from Retro who is feeling the pressure of the town and is a good indication of his current feelings. I am not sure where people are getting "no original thought" from when I spent a good time reading Retro's iso to lift quotes for my post. This just seems a way to discredit the thoughts I make (and everyone else who made them) when you should be concentrating on the thoughts.

Me and Retro are just running around our own tails here, I am going to take a much wider look later tonight.

[Slaxx]

I don't think Elleran will flip town, ICE.

[Retrospective]

For this next part, consider this as alignment neutral because I'm not trying to prove my case anywhere here, this is just a guy who signed up to play a mafia game talking to the others who did as well.

I play mafia to have fun. And to be completely honest, I'm considering dropping out because this shit isn't fun. I'm sure you guys are gonna use that last statement to twist your way into yet another bullshit argument saying I must want to quit because I'm scum, but at this point, I'm finding it hard to even care what you guys think of me anymore. And to be completely honest, the only reason stopping me from dropping out now is because it would be unfair to whoever takes my place because all of you have it ingrained into your minds that I'm scum. If I do decide to drop out, I'd appreciate it if you guys would give whoever takes my spot a chance. I'm going to give it another day, but I'm sorry to ICE and slaxx if I do leave.

--------

Back to the game.

What's so infuriating about this game is perhaps I didn't answer one argument quite up to standards, but I've caught an endless wave of grief for it. To make matters worse, players are latching on to this one thing and not even looking at the game around them. I told my exact train of thought in all of my defenses. And I feel that the players (town and mafia alike) are trying despertly hard to make me fit into perceived scumtells. It's getting to the point that I don't even think you guys are taking notice to my arguments.

Anyway, I'll try yet again.
Apparently I've been defending the wrong arguments with el simo. I'm going to try to right this wrong, but I've been defending and refuting exactly what I thought he has been arguing against me. So I went back to reread and try to figure out just what the hell you guys are talking about on my scummy/weak defenses and I still don't see how any of you could draw that conclusion. But I'll try my best to support my claims.

My first post on the defensive was #69. Normally I would make a joke about the number, but I'm really not in the mood.
[One thing I just noticed from rereading, Ell didn't like me saying ICE was town so soon. Improbable scumbuddies seeing as I doubt mafia would have a problem with town clearing their partner.]
I defended Sweep's case on Slaxx because I thought it was terribad. I know you guys don't want me to make playstyle arguements. But on EM games, the first minute or so it is usually just a chatroom where people mess around and crack little jokes with their friends. After that it usually starts getting serious. [At least for day starts]. This is consistent with my play with Slaxx as you should probably see. Anyway, his argument saying that Slaxx was hardcore buddying I felt was premature and simiply wrong. I explained it to the best of my ability. Perhaps my logic was wifom, but it doesn't make what I said any less true. Saying that Slaxx was scum buddying me was wrong and I needed to get the point across. Moving on...
On my second day on this site, I was looking around at the mafia discussion and there was a topic that was centered around if you're town do you tell the truth even if it isn't the best argument. The general concenus was yes, and this is exactly what I did. I responded to ICE to the best of my ability. You may not like it, but I was fooling around and made an assumption, that was all that there was.

Next one was post #74.
There's nothing to improve upon here. I was correct in my arguments and I still stand by everything I said.
Same goes for #95, I explained my first hard townread here as well.

The rest was just meaningless bickering between us as to if my case was full of wifom and why you were positive wifom is scum's game. I still disagree with you. Anyway, I'm not exactly seeing how my defence was so weak. Perhaps I should've sat there and thought on how best to answer the scumslip argument. But I went with truthfulness.

I keep seeing the same words come up over and over against about why I'm so scummy, it's generally saying that I use wifom and that you guys feel my defense was weak. Perhaps it's because I wrote it and knew exactly what I meant, but I don't see how my defences could lead to a scumread. I honestly believe that mafia saw town pushing on someone and hopped on.

-------- (How did el simo do the horizontal rule? each time I do it just says "[hr][/hr]" in the preview.)

I'm going to address the responses to my post, and add a few things now.

@Jace; My townread on you is pretty simple. I feel that you are actually scumhunting. I feel this way because while you do not post that often, I agree or see logic in everything you've said. However, just because I feel like you are actively and legitimately hunting for scum doesn't mean I agree with all of your reads. I especially like that you followed my logic on Sweep as I am very certain he is mafia and I feel like people are overlooking my arguments simply because I'm under suspicion. I also like that you're questioning my townread on you. This is something that I would consider more of a townsided request. I understand that you don't like my reasons for my read on TL, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong. Sure, it's harder to prove with my line of logic, but this early in the game I have to speculate when there isn't as much hard evidence.
I have a question for you as well.
From what I can tell, Sweep and I are your number one and two top suspects. Does this mean you think that Sweep and I have been bussing piratically from the beginning of the game? Or are they they two separate and unrelated reads? If Sweep flips mafia, how will this effect your read on me?

@ICE; I'm more secure with my townread on you for quite a few reasons. I really like that you said that your gut points to town for me because I feel like it absolutely should as you have seen me play before. I feel like I've played identically to how I always play town and is one of the reason why I am so frustrated. I just have some players here (el simo) who really likes to tunnel. Also upon rereading I picked on someone that I find very unlikely to be your partner. If Elleran gets lynched today and flips mafia, it would almost clear you in my head. You said that your vote remains on me because you think that logic toward me points to mafia. Could you be more specific or is this just the classic argument that everyone is mimicking about the scumslip refutation? And do you honestly think there is more pointing to me for being scum than someone like Sweep? -- 8

@ el simo, my first section of this post is dedicated to you and your arguments on me. The reason why I still think your case is canned is because it is unbelievable generic and I feel that it could fit many other users than me. Now that I stopped really caring if people think I'm scum, I started thinking more clearly. I think I got a better understanding on your case on me. I still think you are mafia sided, but I'd move my number to a solid four as I'm pretty unsure. I still think that for someone who thinks he as good as you think you are would find a much more incriminating case and against someone who was actually mafia if you were indeed town. Also from what I can tell you fos four people; me, slaxx, diddin and elle. However, I don't understand your case against slaxx and I feel that you're more of just following everyone else with elle. You also said something that really bothered me.

Diddin, what stood out to me more than his lurking and parroting was that quote I posted above. If he flips scum I am definitely going to place an irremovable vote on Retro.

For someone who has been all about the correct type of logic, this strikes me as extremely hypocritical. Under no circumstance should your vote be irremovable. Especially if you think you've found a scum team this early as you've previously stated that this would be a scum team is slaxx/diddin/me. After thinking about this for a bit, I could easily see mafia saying this, then busing their partner to build up their town cred. Then use the bus and your new town cred to lynch a town member. This is actually my biggest worry about your right now because I feel that it is pretty consistent with your play because almost none of your case against any specific player have been strong. -- 4

@diddin; I'm glad that your stance on me has changed and I feel that you are voting correctly. I had a null read on you until el simo's latest post. I can see this as a setup for a bus. Also I find it strange that your stance changed in favor of me after el simo made this accusation. As if you are trying to make a team between us a bit more obvious. Keep in mind this is not a strong read and I will never vote unless I"m sure. This is no where near enough for me to justify a vote. In response to your post regarding my delay to put down a vote, This is a habit I've picked up from EM because votes there mean much more. If you're being voted, it's likely going to stay that way and there is a very slim chance you will be able to get out of a lynch. There is also no such thing as 'placement votes' as there are here. -- 5-4

@DH; your first post in this thread was very good and insightful, but since then all I've seen from you has been largely fluff. How are you feeling about the new material and where do your reads currently stand? (I'm talking more on townreads because you've already stated a lot of your scumreads) -- 7

@TL; While I think you're town, your play has been pretty terrible. If you are as certain as you seem to be with ICE/slaxx being mafia, you should be able to find more material that isn't solely based on RVS. Until you find a reason why these targets are scummy that hasn't been based on the part of the game that has RANDOM in it's name, I'm going to have trouble taking your arguments seriously. -- 7

@Elle; I'm trying to remember why I felt she was more town than my other null reads. I think it had to with her early game arguments over the functions of RVS. She is moving more and more mafia aligned for several reasons. First, simo seems comfortable with saying that he thinks she is mafia, but not with voting. This has been noted and if one of the pop up as mafia, I think town should pay a lot of attention to this. There is a very noticeable difference between the bandwagon on Elle and then bandwagon on me. This has also been noted. -- 4

@Benmage; His play is leaning town. I like when he argued with simo's logic on me even though (i think) he previously stated that he finds me scummy. This seems like he's actually trying to take part in the town scumhunting. -- 6

@Sweep; So far you have been and still are my strongest scumread. You seem to not understand the concept of recycled arguments. Going through the game and finding quotes that support arguments that other players have made is not bringing new material to the table. "I haven't been using recycled arguments, see look I put quotes in this post. See new material!" You cannot answer a mimicking accusation with saying you added more material to your latest post after the accusation had already been made. I especially like the part that you miscred me by saying my case on you is a OMGUS. It was blattently obvious that I had real reasons for voting you, and I've given these reasons thoroughout this game. I read this as you grasping at straws. I'm looking forward to this "wider view" that is coming tonight. -- 2

@Slaxx: I am starting to agree with his reads more and more which is usually something that happens when we are both town aligned. I also noticed where it was really important for el simo to falsely accuse Slaxx of using EtA. (Discrediting town again) For el simo to be discrediting town, Slaxx has to be town. -- 7

[el simo]

I play mafia to have fun. And to be completely honest, I'm considering dropping out because this shit isn't fun. I'm sure you guys are gonna use that last statement to twist your way into yet another bullshit argument saying I must want to quit because I'm scum, but at this point, I'm finding it hard to even care what you guys think of me anymore. And to be completely honest, the only reason stopping me from dropping out now is because it would be unfair to whoever takes my place because all of you have it ingrained into your minds that I'm scum. If I do decide to drop out, I'd appreciate it if you guys would give whoever takes my spot a chance. I'm going to give it another day, but I'm sorry to ICE and slaxx if I do leave.

Do you drop out of every game when someone calls you scum? Alignment regardless this shows an enormous lack of maturity. You made a commitment to this game and now you want out because it isn't going the way you want it to. Grow up before you /in for your next game please.

I'm going to urge you to take the same neutrality that you made that first paragraph with when you read the rest of this post.

My first post on the defensive was #69. Normally I would make a joke about the number, but I'm really not in the mood.
[One thing I just noticed from rereading, Ell didn't like me saying ICE was town so soon. Improbable scumbuddies seeing as I doubt mafia would have a problem with town clearing their partner.]
I defended Sweep's case on Slaxx because I thought it was terribad. I know you guys don't want me to make playstyle arguements. But on EM games, the first minute or so it is usually just a chatroom where people mess around and crack little jokes with their friends. After that it usually starts getting serious. [At least for day starts]. This is consistent with my play with Slaxx as you should probably see. Anyway, his argument saying that Slaxx was hardcore buddying I felt was premature and simiply wrong. I explained it to the best of my ability. Perhaps my logic was wifom, but it doesn't make what I said any less true. Saying that Slaxx was scum buddying me was wrong and I needed to get the point across. Moving on...

This is all fine and dandy. But you need to realize even if your WIFOM is true it is still bad for the town. You can not use logic like that with out distracting the town. This is why I found it scummy.

On my second day on this site, I was looking around at the mafia discussion and there was a topic that was centered around if you're town do you tell the truth even if it isn't the best argument. The general concenus was yes, and this is exactly what I did. I responded to ICE to the best of my ability. You may not like it, but I was fooling around and made an assumption, that was all that there was.

The part we don't like is the part you said you were fooling around. Had you claimed something that was as confident as your first guess there wouldn't have been a problem. It's the backpedal that makes it seem like a slip. This can't be argued anymore than it has as it is subjective to each persons read I guess.

Next one was post #74.
There's nothing to improve upon here. I was correct in my arguments and I still stand by everything I said.
Same goes for #95, I explained my first hard townread here as well.

#74 was fine until you started talking about your relationship with Slaxx, that has nothing to do with me case. I mentioned that in my post.
#95 I agree with the first point of 95 but I don't like the rest of it. You defence of TL is wifomy (how do you know scum TL doesn't want you to think that? etc) and you tell me that your use of fallacious arguments is advanced logic that I don't understand. That is nonsense and doesn't address my argument against you.

The rest was just meaningless bickering between us as to if my case was full of wifom and why you were positive wifom is scum's game. I still disagree with you. Anyway, I'm not exactly seeing how my defence was so weak. Perhaps I should've sat there and thought on how best to answer the scumslip argument. But I went with truthfulness.

It's more so that it wasn't relevant to my case. The only time you came close to arguing my points was when you said that I didn't understand your advanced logic.

I keep seeing the same words come up over and over against about why I'm so scummy, it's generally saying that I use wifom and that you guys feel my defense was weak. Perhaps it's because I wrote it and knew exactly what I meant, but I don't see how my defences could lead to a scumread. I honestly believe that mafia saw town pushing on someone and hopped on.

It is because WIFOM is scummy. You HAVE to come to realize this if you wish to continue playing on this site, if you don't you will get pegged for it every game you play that perhaps isn't a newbie game.

Retro, believe it or not, when I initially placed my vote on you it was no more serious than ICEs first vote. The only reason I kept it on you for so long was because you didn't address my case against you and instead insisted on talking about scum buddy relationships that wasn't relative and held no bearing on my argument. The longer this went on the more you stuffed up. I don't want you to replace out because I know you'll join another mini and you'll get pegged for the same thing. You HAVE to understand, that maybe these types of arguments were ok on your last forum but from what I've seen mafiascum.net is the pinnacle of mafia performance and over here this type of argument just doesn't hold. Every game I have EVER played I have always attacked WIFOM and have had a very good success rate with it.

I will unvote you because I feel everything that can be said about the matter has been said, and because I don't want you to replace out of the game just to go and do the same thing in another game. I'd rather you learn here.

unvote:

If you still refuse to listen and continue to use fallacious arguments I will put that vote back on, because it is a scummy thing.

If you are town, I suggest you take my advice seriously and stop before posting anything again and think to yourself, "Would he as scum want me to be thinking that?" Because chances are if you can answer that in the affirmative it's gonna be suspicious.

At this point I'm more suspicious of Diddin and Elleran anyway. Retro has been consistent enough with his scumminess for me to know that it is more likely alack of experience on MS.net than it is scum trying to manipulate us.

For now I'll leave my vote off, I can't really decide between the two just yet.

[diddin]

@Slaxx: I'm not actively lurking. Why in the world would I not post in 4 pages as the pressure and suspicion on me just keep increasing? I also felt like I was hit by a truck when I had to read so many walls of text. I am unable to read this thread more than once or twice a day because of school. If 4 pages appear in a matter of few hours (it hasn't been a day since my last post), I'm not lurking: The others are just more relatively active.

Anyway, Slaxx. Your responses are getting more and more fiery. Why so serious?

VOTE: Slaxx

@el simo: How am I fencesitting? I'm trying my best to interpret your (and many others') walls of fairly dense texts. I'm taking stances on things, just not as quickly and adamantly as you are. Also, my play style tends to be more passive than aggressive (a clear difference between your style and mine). If you think my average stance doesn't qualify as a strong enough expression, then I can't do anything for you.

This is the worst form of OMGUS known to men. Playing a serious game is far from a scumtell.

Also, don't play mafia if you don't wanna read walls.

FoS Elleran

If the lurkin keeps up I may switch but Sweep's minimal content is scummier than Ellleran's minimal content (they both seem to not post much).

[Sweep]

@Retro

In my first games in mafia I often got attacked relentlessly an became disheartened, flaking out of games and making bad moves but now I have come to realise that when the pressure comes piling on then you can only laugh if you are town and fight if you are scum. Laugh, as there is no case against you and fight because your victory depends on it. I urge you to do the same here and avoid leaving the game.

About my "recycled" arguments, however much it may look like I recycle, it is not true. I think my own thoughts.

PS: The code for a rule is

Code: Select all

[hr]100[/hr]

---

It is not important what Slaxx used and if he used it and would never form the basis of a lynch so we should not spend time arguing over it.

Benmage seems to have come off his high horse and stopped trying to play us.

I still need to do a complete re-read and make some notes. I didn't have time tonight sorry.

(Goes to bed to awake to >20 more posts in the morning )

[Jase]

@Jase; My townread on you is pretty simple. I feel that you are actually scumhunting. I feel this way because while you do not post that often, I agree or see logic in everything you've said. However, just because I feel like you are actively and legitimately hunting for scum doesn't mean I agree with all of your reads. I especially like that you followed my logic on Sweep as I am very certain he is mafia and I feel like people are overlooking my arguments simply because I'm under suspicion. I also like that you're questioning my townread on you. This is something that I would consider more of a townsided request.

1.

I understand that you don't like my reasons for my read on TL, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong. Sure, it's harder to prove with my line of logic, but this early in the game I have to speculate when there isn't as much hard evidence.
I have a question for you as well.

2

.From what I can tell, Sweep and I are your number one and two top suspects. Does this mean you think that Sweep and I have been bussing piratically from the beginning of the game? Or are they they two separate and unrelated reads?

3.

If Sweep flips mafia, how will this effect your read on me?

1. True, my thinking you're wrong doesn't make you wrong, but believing something doesn't make it true either. Again. There is not such thing as something that scum wouldn't be stupid enough to do.

2. I won't say that you're my top two suspects. I will say that you are both suspects. From a fairly large pool of suspects. (Sweep, Retro, Longing, and recently diddin and ell too mostly because as has been pointed out, these two have been flying under the radar). My reads on the two of you are independent. As they very well should be D1. I think it's rather foolish to try and peg any scum connections until we have a good solid flip.

3. If Sweep flips Scum it will affect my read of you mildly, and in a direction. Really though, you should not be concerned with how some other players flip will affect others reads of you. You should be worrying about affecting others reads of you with scum hunting, content generation, and clear concise logic (free of fallacies and the like).

You're cases so far have been pretty unconvincing. When confronted you tend to say 'That doesn't mean I'm wrong' and, hell, that may even be true. It does mean that you're unconvincing though, and that's almost as bad as being wrong.

---

Longing: Alrighty. I want you to post your cases on your two suspects (Ice and slaxx yeah?). I'd very much appreciate it if you'd put nothing else in this/these post(s). You've been fairly incoherent, and it's hard to know clearly who you suspect and why.

[Iamnobody]

I only have a few minutes to post right now.

@Retro, I understand the frustration. I've been there....if you want to leave, you can. I'm not asking or telling you too though. We can treat others as new players.

@Ben, did you ever answer why you think you are the best player in this game?

Also, I like the idea of ranking everyone 1-10 about their scummiest. Anyone else interested in trying it....Without a wall of text? I'm not ready to try it yet. It's difficult to digest 11 pages sometimes.

[Elleran]

LOL YESSSSS thanks man. You made this easy. What you did is set yourself up in a bad situation. If town lynches me, you are so gone tomorrow. If You're lynched today, I am pretty much cleared.

Yeah, I regret my last post. I posted at 12AM after some intense Hamlet; probably the cause of my distracted post.

Anyway, more to the point. How will you be clear after my flip? Are you saying that no matter which I alignment I flip, you've already considered all implications and have decided that my alignment is meaningless? You sound extremely sure of yourself when you say that.

@Slaxx: I'm not actively lurking. Why in the world would I not post in 4 pages as the pressure and suspicion on me just keep increasing? I also felt like I was hit by a truck when I had to read so many walls of text. I am unable to read this thread more than once or twice a day because of school. If 4 pages appear in a matter of few hours (it hasn't been a day since my last post), I'm not lurking: The others are just more relatively active.

Anyway, Slaxx. Your responses are getting more and more fiery. Why so serious?

VOTE: Slaxx

@el simo: How am I fencesitting? I'm trying my best to interpret your (and many others') walls of fairly dense texts. I'm taking stances on things, just not as quickly and adamantly as you are. Also, my play style tends to be more passive than aggressive (a clear difference between your style and mine). If you think my average stance doesn't qualify as a strong enough expression, then I can't do anything for you.

This is the worst form of OMGUS known to men. Playing a serious game is far from a scumtell.

Also, don't play mafia if you don't wanna read walls.

FoS Elleran

If the lurkin keeps up I may switch but Sweep's minimal content is scummier than Ellleran's minimal content (they both seem to not post much).

First, you assumed that, when I compared my relatively passive playing style to el simo's, I was calling out el simo as scum. I never put an opinion about whether an intense play was scummy or not. You misinterpreted (and assumed a degree of aggressiveness in) my post.

Second, I dislike walls of text because I feel that some walls are mostly empty contents than real concise juicy meat. I love sharp but concise posts than long and seemingly repetitive wall. By arguing

for

text walls, are you simultaneously arguing that all text walls are full of contents and should be valued more than shorter posts? I read the walls--that doesn't mean I have to appreciate them.

You FoSed me after assuming something hostile beyond my words. Why would a townie assume such a big threat from this apparently harmless post? Your assumption gives me the impression that you are more paranoid or aggressive in your mindset. You seem ready to jump on any post and your mind is extrapolating words from posts that don't say such things.

VOTE: diddin

P.S. I'm a guy.

[TheLonging]

"Longing: Alrighty. I want you to post your cases on your two suspects (Ice and slaxx yeah?). I'd very much appreciate it if you'd put nothing else in this/these post(s). You've been fairly incoherent, and it's hard to know clearly who you suspect and why."

ISO feature. But fine. Tomorrow.

Why tomorrow? Because my parents are being complete and utter shit.

[Retrospective]

@el simo; I'll try to use WIFOM less but it takes a huge role in my scumhunting because I consider what mafia would most likely not do. I know that there is some element of uncertainty here, but I don't build my reads solely on this. I use these types of arguments as a base and when more content that I can use is released, I wrap it up in a nice little bow. I appreciate you unvoting me, but I still have a scumread on you. However, I feel like we've been beating a dead horse and I'm going to try to focus more on the other players.

@Jace; I asked because the phrasing in one of your lastest posts gave the impression that you fos'd us as buddies, and I wanted clarification. I understand that my read on TL is based on a lot of things that are specific to only me. However, at least you know I have reasoning and I'm not just randomly throwing out townreads.

@Sweep; thanks for the hr tip. Nothing much to refute here. I see you just elaborating on topics often long after people have been discussing them. I still think you're making recycled arguments but we will see what happens in your upcoming post. I'll will post a evaluation on your upcoming post.

@Iamnobody; We need much more content from you. I have absolutely no read on you and it bothers me.

@Elleran; Sorry for calling you a girl. D: Why did you write your whole case about Slaxx and then vote someone else?

[Elleran]

Because against Diddin, I have more than just a gut feeling. He actually made assumptions about my post... And those assumptions are mostly hostile, as if he's

looking

for hostility against him. Because of this seemingly paranoid mindset, I have a reason to believe that diddin is a scum. I can't vote for both players. I'm voting against the one who I think is more likely a scum. I might change my vote in the future depending on how things go.

[el simo]

Also, I like the idea of ranking everyone 1-10 about their scummiest. Anyone else interested in trying it....Without a wall of text? I'm not ready to try it yet. It's difficult to digest 11 pages sometimes.

Nothxplz.

Gives scum to much info for their night kills.

[Benmage]

Right now I just have one question for Ben. Earlier you said you were "without a doubt, the best player present". Why do you think you are?

Experience.

Also as arrogant as it is for Ben to say he's the best player here he is probably right<___<.

Benmage, for a very experienced player is playing a very dumb game, making only two posts both with bizarre statements or questions. The first

el simo who is your alt..or main?

Someone with as much experience does not need to ask this question to know the point of alt accounts.

What is the point, O wise one, of alt acocunts? Many people have no problem sharing this information. It is why I asked it. Meta is important.

and looking at this playerbase I am without a doubt the best present player.

and again, he is taking us for fools, stating he is the best player here to draw out reactions and question his ability when he has made over 4k posts. Benmage is not all he seems..

What do you mean by, "not all he seems"? What are you suggesting about my 4k posts?

Benmage is trying to play us.

I am actually more or less caught up in the thread, but don't have the time to post all now, will do so later, and be caught up on events.