Mini 1061: Mafia in Someplace - Game Over!

[Iamnobody]

Sixth Vote Count of Day 1:

[0] Benmage - [

diddin

]
[2] Slaxx - [TheLonging, Elleran]
[2] Elleran - [

Sweep,

Slaxx, DemonHybrid]
[2] ICEninja - [Benmage

, el simo

, diddin]
[2] Sweep - [

Elleran, ICEninja, Slaxx

Retrospective, Jase,

DemonHybrid

]
[2] Retrospective - [ICEninja,

el simo, Elleran

, Sweep]
[0] TheLonging - [

Jase

]
[2] Not Voting - [Iamnobody, el simo]

Names in

strikethrough text

indicate unvotes.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to achieve a lynch and to end Day 1. Deadline for this day can be found here.

---

Unvotes are required, people! I will not count any new votes otherwise.

I agree with Elleran on one point. Wall of Texts are a pain sometimes. It's hard to keep track of what is going on.

As for how I'm leaning. I'm reading Retro as Town, but Slaxx I'm not as sure about. I'm leaning towards Scum with him though.

[diddin]

LOL YESSSSS thanks man. You made this easy. What you did is set yourself up in a bad situation. If town lynches me, you are so gone tomorrow. If You're lynched today, I am pretty much cleared.

Yeah, I regret my last post. I posted at 12AM after some intense Hamlet; probably the cause of my distracted post.

Anyway, more to the point. How will you be clear after my flip? Are you saying that no matter which I alignment I flip, you've already considered all implications and have decided that my alignment is meaningless? You sound extremely sure of yourself when you say that.

@Slaxx: I'm not actively lurking. Why in the world would I not post in 4 pages as the pressure and suspicion on me just keep increasing? I also felt like I was hit by a truck when I had to read so many walls of text. I am unable to read this thread more than once or twice a day because of school. If 4 pages appear in a matter of few hours (it hasn't been a day since my last post), I'm not lurking: The others are just more relatively active.

Anyway, Slaxx. Your responses are getting more and more fiery. Why so serious?

VOTE: Slaxx

@el simo: How am I fencesitting? I'm trying my best to interpret your (and many others') walls of fairly dense texts. I'm taking stances on things, just not as quickly and adamantly as you are. Also, my play style tends to be more passive than aggressive (a clear difference between your style and mine). If you think my average stance doesn't qualify as a strong enough expression, then I can't do anything for you.

This is the worst form of OMGUS known to men. Playing a serious game is far from a scumtell.

Also, don't play mafia if you don't wanna read walls.

FoS Elleran

If the lurkin keeps up I may switch but Sweep's minimal content is scummier than Ellleran's minimal content (they both seem to not post much).

First, you assumed that, when I compared my relatively passive playing style to el simo's, I was calling out el simo as scum. I never put an opinion about whether an intense play was scummy or not. You misinterpreted (and assumed a degree of aggressiveness in) my post.

Second, I dislike walls of text because I feel that some walls are mostly empty contents than real concise juicy meat. I love sharp but concise posts than long and seemingly repetitive wall. By arguing

for

text walls, are you simultaneously arguing that all text walls are full of contents and should be valued more than shorter posts? I read the walls--that doesn't mean I have to appreciate them.

You FoSed me after assuming something hostile beyond my words. Why would a townie assume such a big threat from this apparently harmless post? Your assumption gives me the impression that you are more paranoid or aggressive in your mindset. You seem ready to jump on any post and your mind is extrapolating words from posts that don't say such things.

VOTE: diddin

P.S. I'm a guy.

I'm not making an argument for text walls, I'm making an argument for reading the damn game.

Also, where did I mention el simo in that post? I was referring to you calling Slaxx's play getting more serious and then OMGUS voting him. Hence why I said SERIOUS PLAY is not a scumtell.

Ell and Sweep are both good lynches.

@haters continuin to hate on my posting habits: If the only read on me you can get is from my posting habit, pay more attention. Just because I post less than others doesn't mean I'm any harder to get a read on.

[Slaxx]

"Slaxx I am not sure about" Slaxx I am leaning scum on".

You El's buddy or what?:

[DemonHybrid]

"Slaxx I am not sure about" Slaxx I am leaning scum on".

You El's buddy or what?:

You beat me to it.

Elleran, Iamnobody, Sweep scumteam go?

@Retro: I've really had not much to say ever since TL and Slaxx started fighting. I get absolutely no alignment information from that. It's normal to start getting angry over an argument, and I still think it's town vs town.

[RichardGHP]

Mod ~ Just a quick note - if you bury a vote or something otherwise official inside a wall of text, I am liable to miss it.

[Retrospective]

@Mod; Typo on Slaxx, should read two votes. You also have Elleran listed twice. (Once under Slaxx and once under me.) And both el simo and iamnoob are not voting.

Mod ~ Should all be fixed now.

[Retrospective]

I agree with Elleran on one point. Wall of Texts are a pain sometimes. It's hard to keep track of what is going on.

As for how I'm leaning. I'm reading Retro as Town, but Slaxx I'm not as sure about. I'm leaning towards Scum with him though.

Why?

[Slaxx]

Retro thats the great thing about saying you have a gut scum read on someone

A) You don't have to explain it
B) You dont have to commit to it

[Elleran]

I'm not making an argument for text walls, I'm making an argument for reading the damn game.

Also, where did I mention el simo in that post? I was referring to you calling Slaxx's play getting more serious and then OMGUS voting him. Hence why I said SERIOUS PLAY is not a scumtell.

Ell and Sweep are both good lynches.

@haters continuin to hate on my posting habits: If the only read on me you can get is from my posting habit, pay more attention. Just because I post less than others doesn't mean I'm any harder to get a read on.

I thought you had mentioned el simo's style of play when you said "serious play". You didn't specify which player's play and thus I am not liable for not understanding which you were referring to. Also, I did read the game. Like I said, I don't need to appreciate everything I see, though. Repetitive text walls are just one of those things that I don't enjoy reading.

You

are a great scum lynch for the day.

=================================================================================

"Slaxx I am not sure about" Slaxx I am leaning scum on".

You El's buddy or what?:

You beat me to it.

Elleran, Iamnobody, Sweep scumteam go?

@Retro: I've really had not much to say ever since TL and Slaxx started fighting. I get absolutely no alignment information from that. It's normal to start getting angry over an argument, and I still think it's town vs town.

Can you explain what you see between the three of us that you mentioned? I don't see how I'm connected to Sweep and Iamnobody at all. The only time I mentioned Sweep was in my RVS vote and Iamnobody is nowhere to be seen in my posts.

=================================================================================

@MOD: My vote is on

diddin

. In case you missed it...

UNVOTE: diddin
VOTE: diddin

[Slaxx]

LOL thats usually how it is.

[diddin]

I'm not making an argument for text walls, I'm making an argument for reading the damn game.

Also, where did I mention el simo in that post? I was referring to you calling Slaxx's play getting more serious and then OMGUS voting him. Hence why I said SERIOUS PLAY is not a scumtell.

Ell and Sweep are both good lynches.

@haters continuin to hate on my posting habits: If the only read on me you can get is from my posting habit, pay more attention. Just because I post less than others doesn't mean I'm any harder to get a read on.

I thought you had mentioned el simo's style of play when you said "serious play". You didn't specify which player's play and thus I am not liable for not understanding which you were referring to. Also, I did read the game. Like I said, I don't need to appreciate everything I see, though. Repetitive text walls are just one of those things that I don't enjoy reading.

You

are a great scum lynch for the day.

=================================================================================

"Slaxx I am not sure about" Slaxx I am leaning scum on".

You El's buddy or what?:

You beat me to it.

Elleran, Iamnobody, Sweep scumteam go?

@Retro: I've really had not much to say ever since TL and Slaxx started fighting. I get absolutely no alignment information from that. It's normal to start getting angry over an argument, and I still think it's town vs town.

Can you explain what you see between the three of us that you mentioned? I don't see how I'm connected to Sweep and Iamnobody at all. The only time I mentioned Sweep was in my RVS vote and Iamnobody is nowhere to be seen in my posts.

=================================================================================

@MOD: My vote is on

diddin

. In case you missed it...

UNVOTE: diddin
VOTE: diddin

Not liable? You shitting me? It's not like you could've been OMGUS voting anybody else, and I used the EXACT SAME word you used to describe slaxx's play. How about next time just admitting you have a bullshit case?

[diddin]

EBWOP: MOD: I am voting for Sweep. Not ICE.

[DemonHybrid]

Can you explain what you see between the three of us that you mentioned? I don't see how I'm connected to Sweep and Iamnobody at all. The only time I mentioned Sweep was in my RVS vote and Iamnobody is nowhere to be seen in my posts.

You talk as if scum have to be connected in some way. Which is a terrible way to defend yourself, might I add.

[Elleran]

Can you explain what you see between the three of us that you mentioned? I don't see how I'm connected to Sweep and Iamnobody at all. The only time I mentioned Sweep was in my RVS vote and Iamnobody is nowhere to be seen in my posts.

You talk as if scum have to be connected in some way. Which is a terrible way to defend yourself, might I add.

No, I'm asking why you think we are a scumteam. Scums don't need to be connected, I agree. However, there must be some evidence that is influencing you to think that we are a team.

@diddin: Even if you were referring to my description of Slaxx, you still extrapolated a hostile assumption from my sentence. "Why so serious?" was referring to his apparent rage, not his general playing style. You can clearly see that when I do discuss about playing styles, I specify that I am talking about playing styles as evidenced by my discussion on el simo's play. I commented on the tone of Slaxx's posts recently prior to the post made at the time, not his general play throughout the game. My assertion that you made a hostile assumption stands.

Anyway, Slaxx. Your responses are getting more and more fiery. Why so serious?

Also, I think you misinterpreted my use of serious. I didn't use 'serious' as in intense/posting a lot/deeply analyzing. I used 'serious' as in tense and not lax. This is evidenced by the previous sentence of the same post.

[DemonHybrid]

No, I'm asking why you think we are a scumteam. Scums don't need to be connected, I agree. However, there must be some evidence that is influencing you to think that we are a team.

Not....really? You'd have to be dumb to think that scum always have to be connected in some way and then base your cases off of that.

[diddin]

What is so scummy about Slaxx's rage/seriousness? I see your reasoning as fake reasoning for an OMGUS vote.

[RichardGHP]

Elleran and diddin, you need to unvote Slaxx and ICE respectively before I can count your votes for diddin and Sweep respectively.

[Slaxx]

Anyway, Slaxx. Your responses are getting more and more fiery. Why so serious?

VOTE: Slaxx

Disguised OMGUS vote.

Yeah, I regret my last post. I posted at 12AM after some intense Hamlet; probably the cause of my distracted post.

Backpedalling...Backing down when confronted...Not assuming responsibility for actions...

Anyway, more to the point. How will you be clear after my flip? Are you saying that no matter which I alignment I flip, you've already considered all implications and have decided that my alignment is meaningless? You sound extremely sure of yourself when you say that.

I am confident (but not SURE /glares at TL) that you will flip scum. And although it doesn't clear me, it makes me look a lot better.

Because against Diddin, I have more than just a gut feeling. He actually made assumptions about my post... And those assumptions are mostly hostile, as if he's looking for hostility against him. Because of this seemingly paranoid mindset, I have a reason to believe that diddin is a scum. I can't vote for both players. I'm voting against the one who I think is more likely a scum. I might change my vote in the future depending on how things go.

Or it could be he misunderstood you. What you're doing here is setting Diddin up for an argument he can't defend himself against. Paranoia is a natural part of this game. Just because someone thinks people are out to push on him and get him lynched doesn't mean they are scum. But I like how you wriggled off my bandwagon and tried to place yourself on another one.

Can you explain what you see between the three of us that you mentioned? I don't see how I'm connected to Sweep and Iamnobody at all. The only time I mentioned Sweep was in my RVS vote and Iamnobody is nowhere to be seen in my posts.

Most of the time scum try to no be connected. Or at least not in a positively correlated way. I would think pretty much any player would know this.

@diddin: Even if you were referring to my description of Slaxx, you still extrapolated a hostile assumption from my sentence. "Why so serious?" was referring to his apparent rage, not his general playing style. You can clearly see that when I do discuss about playing styles, I specify that I am talking about playing styles as evidenced by my discussion on el simo's play. I commented on the tone of Slaxx's posts recently prior to the post made at the time, not his general play throughout the game. My assertion that you made a hostile assumption stands.

If thats the best you got on Diddin, then that confirms to me that you just awkwardly left my bandwagon in search of another.

Hey guys, look! Scum.

[Retrospective]

Hmm the scumteam that DH and Slaxx outlined is interesting. I'm much less sure on iamnobody just because he's of the lack of context.

@Elleran, What is your read on Sweep? I haven't seen you address or analyze his play at all. I mentioned something earlier about mafia often not adressing each other. This fits nicely here. I'm gonna go ISO both of them and see if they've ever directly responded to each other.

Can you explain what you see between the three of us that you mentioned? I don't see how I'm connected to Sweep and Iamnobody at all. The only time I mentioned Sweep was in my RVS vote and Iamnobody is nowhere to be seen in my posts.

This pretty much confirms what I'm talking about. Elleran is even commenting that there has been no connection between Sweep and himself. Very possible that it is mafia avoiding each other. [Not sure how to tie this in, but I noticed when Elleran was lurking a bit, he aplogized to Sweep, not town]

[Retrospective]

Gahh, Slaxx ninja'd me on the mafia avoiding each other bit. D:

[Retrospective]

Here goes a triple post. -- Don't hate me D:

I just clt-f'd Elleran's name in Sweep's ISO. The name came up twice. Elleran was Sweep's random vote and the only other time he addressed him after that was to say "Elleran: Neutral, need more."

[el simo]

Retro thats the great thing about saying you have a gut scum read on someone

A) You don't have to explain it
B) You dont have to commit to it

That's why it is scummy.

Haven't really been following the bickering going on lately will catch up on Slaxx vs Ell tomorrow morning.

[ICEninja]

At the moment, I feel like I have nothing to add to the Retro case. He has addressed everything brought up against him to the best of his ability, and probably doesn't have anything more to add.

This doesn't clear my suspicion of him, and I may decide to pursue a Retro lynch later on, but I am strongly considering repositioning my vote. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to dedicate a nice meaty amount of time to this.

At the moment I feel decently certain that one of diddin and Elleran is scum. I'm not positive which, but I'll do an ISO reread to solidify everything. At the moment I'm leaning towards Elleran being scum for the reasons Slaxx pointed out.

I feel like Slaxx and DH trying to form a scum team on day 1 is scummy. This helps to set up future mislynches, and as I believe was pointed out, makes scum busing extremely effective. While it is one thing to make statements suggesting that you'll be more or less suspicious of someone because of X flip, it is incredibly premature to be putting Iam on the scum list based on what he's said. I feel like a small case can be made for him as scum, but I'm noticing a very awkward contradiction here:

Elleran, Iamnobody, Sweep scumteam go?

You talk as if scum have to be connected in some way.

You were the one who declared them to be a scum team. That means you must have found something that connects them. Otherwise you are arbitrarily picking 3 unconnected players at random who you find scummy and declaring them a scum team. I don't like this at all.

[DemonHybrid]

You were the one who declared them to be a scum team. That means you must have found something that connects them. Otherwise you are arbitrarily picking 3 unconnected players at random who you find scummy and declaring them a scum team. I don't like this at all.

Seriously, are all of you people smoking crack or something?

Just because I find 3 people separately scummy doesn't mean that they NEED to be connected in some way. If they are mafia, they are on a team, right? Yes. That is 100% the case unless there are multiple mafias. But that does NOT mean that they have to be connected. That's what scum DOESN'T want to do.

In summary: I think 3 people are the scumteam. I don't think they showed much if any connection.

[ICEninja]

Then I misunderstood you. What you really meant was, "Here are my 3 biggest suspects." The way I interpreted your phrasing was, "These players are all aligned together."

While they may very well be, you really need to be careful of setting up mislynches. It's better to stick with individual scum suspects when we don't have flips, and then put together a scum team when we have VCA that suggests one.