Mini 1061: Mafia in Someplace - Game Over!

[el simo]

"It's not for the poor case," "he flopped off an OMGUS and moved to an

even worse

case."

Eliminating your contradiction, you are voting him for an OMGUS. Hardly grounds for a lynching.

There are two things in ICEs post that I agree with, that is the back peddling and the inconsistency/double standards. The rest of it is about a poorly thought out case and a bunch of what is imo are misunderstanding which I think are null tells. I feel everyone who is voting him for having bad reasoning are hypocritical and by their own logic should all be lynched for voting someone with bad reasons. Someone who parrots others and places a quick vote or hammer on someone is scummy. Someone who puts the first vote on someone based on poor reasons is just not a good mafia player (not meant to be offensive Ell, just trying to differentiate).

How ever, having double standards for myself and Slaxx is inconsistent logic and as I've said before in this game inconsistency is scummy. The backpeddle on his vote for Slaxx is also of concern. He obviously had little faith in his case. Also, what everyone else seems to miss is what I think was a scum lynch. "You are a great candidate for a scum lynch today," doesn't make sense to me coming form a townies mouth. Scum want to lynch townies, so why is diddin a good candidate for a scum lynch?

I'll hammer when the time comes, but until I'd rather keep my vote on Jase. He needs to post more.

[Slaxx]

IAmNobody has posted way less.

Want to hassle him too?

This is fitting together so nicely.

[Retrospective]

I'm not going to put my vote on Elleran until he makes another appearance.

el simo; I'm gonna summarize your last post.
First two setnences: You guys are so wrong
First big paragraph: ICE is sorta right but Ell isn't mafia and you guys are all wrong
Second big paragraph: Ell is mafia but everyone is still wrong

At this point, I'm pretty sure Elleran is a mafia power role. I feel like you're giving up on defending Elleran, but trying to save yourself with defending your old case.

[Benmage]

it didn't seem to strong, but I don't see anything else more appealing.

Mmm scum points for Ben.

Making lunch I'll post my final thoughts on Ell when I'm done.

Got more on this?

[el simo]

IAmNobody has posted way less.

Want to hassle him too?

This is fitting together so nicely.

Sure do but I only got one vote, so until the hammer, it's staying on Jase.

I'm not going to put my vote on Elleran until he makes another appearance.

el simo; I'm gonna summarize your last post.
First two setnences: You guys are so wrong
First big paragraph: ICE is sorta right but Ell isn't mafia and you guys are all wrong
Second big paragraph: Ell is mafia but everyone is still wrong

At this point, I'm pretty sure Elleran is a mafia power role. I feel like you're giving up on defending Elleran, but trying to save yourself with defending your old case.

This is a nice misrep.

it didn't seem to strong, but I don't see anything else more appealing.

Mmm scum points for Ben.

Making lunch I'll post my final thoughts on Ell when I'm done.

Got more on this?

Sure do. You just read through the entire game. You didn't find anybody else scummier? You have nothing to say about any other people? You are happy with just lynching Ell even though it doesn't convince you too well just because nobody else appeals more? In situations like that I tend not to vote rather than vote the biggest bandwagon.

[Elleran]

Angry responses is scummy because Slaxx wasn't quite cornered but simply pushed for more explanation when he broke into a raging post. A scum is more likely to crack when under pressure than a townie.

Also, I can see that I am one of the top candidates for the lynch of the day. This being so, I have a strong reason to not be around when LyLo approaches. If it seems that my lynch will provide the most information, then so be it. Getting lynched and revealing my alignment (which is town, btw) is going to be my towniest course of action right now because my lynch will fix the misguided scumhunt, provide information for the town, and get rid of a liability for town by being mislynched now when we can afford it.

@MOD:

UNVOTE: Slaxx

UNVOTE: Slaxx

UNVOTE

VOTE: diddin

[Slaxx]

Why Jase and not IAmNobody?

[el simo]

Why Jase and not IAmNobody?

Mostly because I'm expecting him to be replaced.

[Slaxx]

But if this is a weak scum slot you want to try to pressure him more now before a stronger person comes in to take the place. Lurking is a null tell, but if they are being introverted and dodgy, you have to put pressure on them while you can. That's my opinion anyway. You just have to make sure to decipher between noobtown VI and weakscum.

tl;dr I think pressuring IAmNobody is just as important.

[el simo]

Pressure him all you want I'm am fairly certain we'll see him replaced before he even realises you were trying to get him to post more.

[Benmage]

it didn't seem to strong, but I don't see anything else more appealing.

Mmm scum points for Ben.

Making lunch I'll post my final thoughts on Ell when I'm done.

Got more on this?

Sure do. You just read through the entire game. You didn't find anybody else scummier? You have nothing to say about any other people? You are happy with just lynching Ell even though it doesn't convince you too well just because nobody else appeals more? In situations like that I tend not to vote rather than vote the biggest bandwagon.

I said ice's case wasn't strong itself. I still find EL scummy, and from my read, yes, scummiest.

I also questioned 2 people on the wagon...

[RichardGHP]

Iamnobody has approximately 20 hours to post before he is prodded.

It wasn't mentioned in the rules, but if I deem that your activity level is unsatisfactory, even if you are within prod limits, I reserve the right to replace you.

[Sweep]

A classic case of conflation

el simo; I'm gonna summarize your last post.
First two setnences: You guys are so wrong
First big paragraph: ICE is sorta right but Ell isn't mafia and you guys are all wrong
Second big paragraph: Ell is mafia but everyone is still wrong

Another logical flaw.

[Sweep]

Anyway, I'm happy that you guys are starting to see that I'm town. It's interesting that Sweep still does not though. For someone who has consistently agreeing/following with all of el simo's arguments, he sure isn't following a big one. I think this is because he is scum latching on someone who was under a lot of pressure. When he hopped on the bandwagon, it was safe to follow because town (ICE at the very least) was leading on town. However, now that the suspicion is waning he's still bent on repeating old arguments. Sweep's last post was essentially "All that stuff el simo said that was scummy about you sure is scummy." And he added a bit about saying he's been voting me since the beginning of the game as if that improves the credibility of his recycled and old case. Seriously, he hasn't mentioned one thing that el simo hasn't said. Nor has he used anything to say that I've scum other than "my weak defense" and "omgwifom".

Have you considered for one second that your logic is consistently flawed? Because I agree with simo, does that mean that my argument is any weaker? I agree with Simo because I have read the same things as you, I have read the same defence that he has and come to the same conclusion. You are just trying to discredit me by repeating the same argument that my material is recycled when the truth is that my argument is stronger as I am not the only one who thinks it.

---

I am not going to comment on Ice's post until I have my own ideas on Elleran.

---

By that logic, all RVS votes are suspicious. Why is it acceptable to make a vote about someone's avatar when we have no informatin about players, then not acceptable to make a really weak case when we still don't have any information on most players?

It is very much different, your case looked credible but if you actually read it was total fluff.

---

Thoughts on Ell coming next post.

[Retrospective]

After I first read Elleran's post, I was getting ready to say, "Okay, I agree with you. You're the best lynch" and turn it into L-1. The whole post initially struck me as mafia trying to make a last appeal to town. The whole, "I will give myself up for the good of town" appeal. I've seen mafia do it tons of times. I actually went back up to quote the post and something caught my eye.

It bothers me that Elleran didn't claim a pr. I would expect mafia in this situation to do so. Especially because their is a pretty good likleyhood he could come up with something that wouldn't be cc'd. At the very least, it gives mafia a productive NK. I could see mafia doing this appeal to town later in the game when other options are exhausted but...

Meh, this doesn't warrant a change in votes, but I would like to know everyone who is currently voting Elleran's opinion of it.

I'm fixing to just label it null tell because it could have been a continuation of the last appeal to town, but eh. I dunno. In any case, I'm not ready to vote Elleran until I hear from the rest of town.

[Slaxx]

Angry responses is scummy because Slaxx wasn't quite cornered but simply pushed for more explanation when he broke into a raging post. A scum is more likely to crack when under pressure than a townie.

Also, I can see that I am one of the top candidates for the lynch of the day. This being so, I have a strong reason to not be around when LyLo approaches. If it seems that my lynch will provide the most information, then so be it. Getting lynched and revealing my alignment (which is town, btw) is going to be my towniest course of action right now because my lynch will fix the misguided scumhunt, provide information for the town, and get rid of a liability for town by being mislynched now when we can afford it.

@MOD:

UNVOTE: Slaxx

UNVOTE: Slaxx

UNVOTE

VOTE: diddin

-Repeats what he says
-Fails to argue any of the points against him, instead just says, okay, fine.

[Jase]

TL: I asked you to outline your cases against your two suspects. I've had some difficulty following you so it'd be nice if you could give them to me in a nice encapsulated form.

Simo: I don't know what your purpose for voting me is exactly. You pretty much omit any sort of threat from your vote, so if I didn't want to post your vote isn't going to get me posting. If you call a pressure vote a pressure vote it isn't a pressure vote, but I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.

Anyways, it looks like the day is winding down. I like sweep as a lynch candidate. I've seen scum hold on desperately to what seemed like a sure lynch (in the case retro) and I think that's what's happening here. I would also accept diddin or ell.

[RichardGHP]

Prodding Iamnobody.

You have two weeks left to lynch.

[Retrospective]

Anyways, it looks like the day is winding down. I like sweep as a lynch candidate. I've seen scum hold on desperately to what seemed like a sure lynch (in the case retro) and I think that's what's happening here. I would also accept diddin or ell.

Does this mean you think I'm town now?

------

Where did TL go?

[Jase]

Does this mean you think I'm town now?

------

Where did TL go?

It doesn't necessarily mean anything. Don't be so preoccupied by my read on you. I'm not trying to lynch you and I'm not actively pursuing a case against you. That is all you need to know.

Anyways it sounds like TL is having some real life issues. We'll see what happens.

[Sweep]

Retro, what is "PR"?

@Jase
You say that "hanging onto a sure lynch" like I don't believe that Retro is scum, the opposite is true, I still think Retro is scum.

[Retrospective]

Retro, what is "PR"?

Power role, sorry. (Like cop, tracker/roleblocker/doc)

@Jase
You say that "hanging onto a sure lynch" like I don't believe that Retro is scum, the opposite is true, I still think Retro is scum.

And this is why you're either an idiot or mafia. Because if you payed any attention to this game, it should be pretty obvious I'm not. You're holding on for dear life and your arguments don't even have substance.

[ICEninja]

Elleran needs to actually respond to the meat of my case against him. He ignored almost all of it.

Iamnobody needs to play or get out of the game.

Longing needs to answer the outstanding questions to him about his scum reads.

Retro needs to turn down the OMGUS bias. By that I mean you have a consistent habit of finding everyone who suspects you as scummy. I have a strong feeling that should Sweep have made a similar move against a player that wasn't you, you wouldn't be quite so adamant about his lynch.

Simo, who do you actually find scummy, and why? You dropped off the Retro wagon because he AtE'd you off, you don't seem to have much faith in the Elleran wagon, and you've more or less admitted that you're going to unvote Jace once his post count meets some arbitrary standard you have. As far as I see it, you don't have any real presence in this game at the moment, and I'd say that's scummy.

While you have pointed out a thing or 2 about diddin, you never actually said why you voted him in the first place. What made him scummy?

Ben, if you don't think my case on Elleran is good but you find him the scummiest then make your own case against him. Since you're so good at this game, you should be able to start feeling out scum, and if there aren't any good cases, make one yourself, right?

[Retrospective]

Retro needs to turn down the OMGUS bias. By that I mean you have a consistent habit of finding everyone who suspects you as scummy. I have a strong feeling that should Sweep have made a similar move against a player that wasn't you, you wouldn't be quite so adamant about his lynch.

While this may be true, it doesn't mean the points against him are false. Just because someone is voting me doesn't mean I go pull stuff out of my ass about them. I want to win this game too, I'm not gonna lynch anyone who fos's me. I lynch who I think is mafia. I take a closer look at those putting pressure on me earlier in the game because they have my focus. I'm not voting Sweep because he's voting me. I'm voting scum and he's voting me because he's mafia that's out of other options. Given the circumstances of this game, it's not much of a surprise that he is continuing to push on me. He hopped on when I was popular. Now the bandwagon has died down, but Sweep devoted too much parroting to me. The only reason why he hasn't gotten off me is because he knows that people will find it even more suspicious if he suddenly drops his baseless cases. The only thing that he has going for him right now, is he is consistent. He uses the same words and phrases in each post that are somehow condemning to me.

[diddin]

Not gonna lie, just posting to avoid prod.

Elleran not defending himself is making me think we're right here.