Open 252 -- Whoniverse Jungle Republic Game Over!

[Mafuyu]

Apologies for D2 inactivity, Mafuyu has test week. Another 6 hours or so and actual content should follow.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I didn't miss it, but you never really tried to get a wagon on me going - if we disregard CommieX's V/LA notice, only Jesse, Sevei and I posted between those two posts of yours.

So how does my actions toward Furcolow factor into you thinking I'm scum? Do you think I was busing him from the start?

I doubt it was bussing, but distancing which accidentally helped lead to his lynch is very much possible. There certainly was no reason to suppose that he would end up getting lynched at the time of your vote.

There has to be something to back up your gut, otherwise you're guilty of the same thing Sevei is and deserved to be lynched.

My gut is quite reliable, thank you very much and Sevei doesn't deserve to be lynched, but, as it happens, my second point does back up my gut.

please connect the dots on how I'm partners with Jelly.

That's just me having some fun. I have no intention of looking for pairings at this point in time.

[petroleumjelly]

Why isn't JesseSheffield lynched yet?

[JesseSheffield]

Because there still needs to be four more votes...duh.

[petroleumjelly]

Good point.

Tick

ets

! Get your JesseSheffieldwagon tickets he-

ere

! Two bits a pop!

[JesseSheffield]

Yeah it was a pretty unnecessary question.

[zipperflesh]

I didn't miss it, but you never really tried to get a wagon on me going - if we disregard CommieX's V/LA notice, only Jesse, Sevei and I posted between those two posts of yours.

Well, I certainly didn't push it because all I've got is a vague gut suspicion.

So how does my actions toward Furcolow factor into you thinking I'm scum? Do you think I was busing him from the start?

I doubt it was bussing, but distancing which accidentally helped lead to his lynch is very much possible. There certainly was no reason to suppose that he would end up getting lynched at the time of your vote.

I hardly call outright attacking him "distancing." I had plenty of time to unvote before he even became close to being lynched. Furcolow was making baseless attacks against people, much in the same way you and Sevei are doing, and I attacked him for it.

There has to be something to back up your gut, otherwise you're guilty of the same thing Sevei is and deserved to be lynched.

My gut is quite reliable, thank you very much and Sevei doesn't deserve to be lynched, but, as it happens, my second point does back up my gut.

You still haven't proven how I'm mafia. All you've done is provide a hypothesis where I was scum distancing himself from his scum buddy.

please connect the dots on how I'm partners with Jelly.

That's just me having some fun. I have no intention of looking for pairings at this point in time.

You think baseless accusations are fun?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, I certainly didn't push it because all I've got is a vague gut suspicion.

Nice little jab here.

I hardly call outright attacking him "distancing." I had plenty of time to unvote before he even became close to being lynched. Furcolow was making baseless attacks against people, much in the same way you and Sevei are doing, and I attacked him for it.

If it was "outright attacking", then you certainly couldn't have unvoted without it drawing a lot of attention. Anyway, I do not think your actions are inconsistent with the possibility that you're mafia in any meaningful way.

You still haven't proven how I'm mafia. All you've done is provide a hypothesis where I was scum distancing himself from his scum buddy.

Proof does not come into it. And I certainly don't consider the Furcolow-vote to be relevant to my argument, which I made in #223. Your subsequent attempts to undermine me serve as further evidence.

You think baseless accusations are fun?

They certainly can be, but I was merely referring to the method of presentation of my accusations here (i.e. in the form of pairings.)

[zipperflesh]

I hardly call outright attacking him "distancing." I had plenty of time to unvote before he even became close to being lynched. Furcolow was making baseless attacks against people, much in the same way you and Sevei are doing, and I attacked him for it.

If it was "outright attacking", then you certainly couldn't have unvoted without it drawing a lot of attention. Anyway, I do not think your actions are inconsistent with the possibility that you're mafia in any meaningful way.

Are my actions inconsistent with the possibility that I'm town?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Those actions? No, not at all. You're the one who brought up your Furcolow-vote. I don't consider it to be significant.

[zipperflesh]

So, if my actions in regards to the Furcolow lynch are a null tell, then what makes you think I'm mafia?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Try reading my posts.

Firstly, my gut (which is as infallible as the pope) tells me so.

Secondly, your switch to Sevei strikes me as fairly opportunistic (I certainly don't see anything incriminating in Sevei's posts that occur between your vote for me and your vote for Sevei.)

Your subsequent attempts to undermine me serve as further evidence.

[JesseSheffield]

I don't see the case on zipper...at all.

[zipperflesh]

Try reading my posts.

Firstly, my gut (which is as infallible as the pope) tells me so.

Secondly, your switch to Sevei strikes me as fairly opportunistic (I certainly don't see anything incriminating in Sevei's posts that occur between your vote for me and your vote for Sevei.)

Your subsequent attempts to undermine me serve as further evidence.

Point #1 - Gut
Rebuttal - Gut means nothing, prove it or quit mudslinging

Point #2 - Voting Sevei
Rebuttal - Since you're both guilty of baseless attacks, I could care less which one of you is lynched first. If it were possible to lynch you both today, then I'd be all for it.

Point #3 - Undermining CES
Rebuttal - You have to have a valid case before I can undermine it. As of right you've got nothing on me except null tells and gut. If you really think I'm scum quit toying around and prove it. Otherwise you're just slandering.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Point #1 - Gut
Rebuttal - Gut means nothing, prove it or quit mudslinging

Gut is awesome and is a completely valid method scumhunting if a not particularly convincing one. You keep asking me why I think you're scum. The notion that me answering truthfully could in any way constitute mudslinging is laughable.

Point #2 - Voting Sevei
Rebuttal - Since you're both guilty of baseless attacks, I could care less which one of you is lynched first. If it were possible to lynch you both today, then I'd be all for it.

I probably wouldn't have batted an eye if you had started the day voting Sevei, but the timing of the switch seemed highly opportunistic to me. I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you. I'm also not entirely clear how I'm supposed to be "guilty of baseless attacks" when I'm fairly sure all I did was fun bandwagonning (the advantages of which are aptly demonstrated by Furcolow's breakdown).

Point #3 - Undermining CES
Rebuttal - You have to have a valid case before I can undermine it. As of right you've got nothing on me except null tells and gut. If you really think I'm scum quit toying around and prove it. Otherwise you're just slandering.

Then what is the "vague gut suspicion comment" about? What purpose does it serve? I do have more on you, but you're obviously not going to agree with me.

If you really think I'm scum quit toying around and prove it. Otherwise you're just slandering.

You'd have to be a fairly crappy player for me to be able to "prove" that you're scum by page with any regularity. That's not how mafia works. Also, calling people scum in a game of mafia is just part of game and not slander.

[zipperflesh]

Gut is awesome and is a completely valid method scumhunting if a not particularly convincing one. You keep asking me why I think you're scum. The notion that me answering truthfully could in any way constitute mudslinging is laughable.

I don't have a problem with using your gut, I use mine all the time. What I have a problem is you attacking me without reasoning and blaming it on gut. Chances are if you truly have a gut feeling that I'm scum then I've done something to provoke that response. If not then you are lying scum.

I probably wouldn't have batted an eye if you had started the day voting Sevei, but the timing of the switch seemed highly opportunistic to me. I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you. I'm also not entirely clear how I'm supposed to be "guilty of baseless attacks" when I'm fairly sure all I did was fun bandwagonning (the advantages of which are aptly demonstrated by Furcolow's breakdown).

My vote on you was a carry-over of my vote on you yesterday, with an additional suspicion based on your wagon hoping, and sprinkled with me wanting to start the day off with a vote. I came back later once the Jesse/Sevei discussion was underway and voted Sevei based on his response to Jesse, in fact I was the first to vote him.

You are guilty of "baseless attacks" because you continually say people are scum without showing a shred of evidence. Need I remind you this is the same tactic Furcolow attempted to use which resulted in his lynch. If you think people are scummy then you need to put you money where your mouth is, otherwise you're mudslinging.

Then what is the "vague gut suspicion comment" about? What purpose does it serve? I do have more on you, but you're obviously not going to agree with me.

I've already explained what my gut feeling is based on --> Your baseless attacks, and the way you hopped wagons on Day 1.

If you've got more on me then POST IT! I can't very well properly defend myself from a guy calling me scum for no reason, but perhaps when you provide your evidence (I'm doubting you have any...) I'll be able to defend myself.

You'd have to be a fairly crappy player for me to be able to "prove" that you're scum by page with any regularity. That's not how mafia works. Also, calling people scum in a game of mafia is just part of game and not slander.

Are you saying that mafia isn't a game about collecting evidence on a player to convince the town to lynch that person? I don't think so, where I come from we have to prove our accusations or be held accountable.

Calling people scum without providing a reason is slander, not a part of the game. Proving someone is scum via a presentation of the facts is a part of the game and how you play mafia. Otherwise you're playing WitchhuntTM or GuessTheBadGuyTM.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What I have a problem is you attacking me without reasoning and blaming it on gut.

I put you on my scum list. That might technically constitute an attack, but only barely.

Chances are if you truly have a gut feeling that I'm scum then I've done something to provoke that response. If not then you are lying scum.

I form my gut reads through reading ISOs (I ISOed each player at the start of the day.) and they tend to be based on the totality of a person's posting. I wouldn't be surprised if there were specific elements that triggered, but in that case I didn't manage to isolate them.

I came back later once the Jesse/Sevei discussion was underway and voted Sevei based on his response to Jesse, in fact I was the first to vote him.

Good thing you pointed that out, because this is what you said earlier:

...for some reason (perhaps you are scum?) I can't get a wagon started on you, so when the Sevei wagon started I hopped over since I was just as suspicous of him.

You've just given two contradictory explanations of the same event.

Unvote, vote: zipperflesh

I was going to respond to the rest of your post, but screw it. Die, scum, die.

[Sevei]

First: Sevei is a girl. Read where it says that under her avatar.
Second: Hey, all of you people out in lurker land, stuff has happened. You should talk about it.
Third: Jesse tried to make a mountain out of a molehill, and he and Zipper have been grossly misrepping my vote on DryFit. They need to hang for this.

A little more conversation and a lot more action, plx. KTHNXBAI.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I think you missed the part wherein I just caught zipperfleshscum and should be voting for him, Sevei. (Note also that zipperflesh hasn't posted in this thread since despite posting elsewhere, an abrupt to our discussion.)

[Mafuyu]

CES makes point. Dodging an accusation by timeskip isn't usually town play.

For now,

Vote: Zipperflesh

, but Mafuyu has slight reservations. Forgetting how a wagon was built, specifically whether you started it or hopped on? Seems like lazy play, and Mafuyu doesn't have the data to know if Zipper runs a lazyscum game.

[zipperflesh]

I need to respond, but I've had a busy weekend.

If I don't get to this tonight, I'll have my response Monday morning.

Nobody else posted within +24 hours of CES's post, so I don't think that should be held against me.

[Mafuyu]

But you were the one under fire with what's a pretty legitimate argument, so trying to diffuse the dodging accusation with "But everyone else was doing it" isn't going to fly, especially with the note that you were posting elsewhere on the site during the timeframe mentioned.

[petroleumjelly]

Mod

: When you return, please look into the yellowbounder situation. He has not posted on-site since September 23.

JesseSheffield is still scum. Nightson is probably scum. zipperflesh is starting to look like scummy, but I originally thought he was probably Town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Damn. You really are his partner, huh?

[JesseSheffield]

I'm actually very confused as to what's going on now.